13: Carlie LeBreton, First Female Chief Setter at World Champs

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it was really hard to push my voice and be like,

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hey, you know, I'm actually here because I'm a female

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and I'm testing these routes for the females,

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but then your opinion gets lost.

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They're a lot better climber with their condition

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than what I am trying to pretend to climb like that.

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So I'm like, I always give them the benefit of the doubt.

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I think I started climbing about six or several weeks

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after having Remy.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing

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podcast.

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I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce

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my guest for today, Carlie LeBreton.

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Carlie is the first female chief setter at an IFSC World

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Championship, where she led a team of five

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to set the world Paraclimbing Championships in Bern 2023.

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She's been climbing for over 20 years

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and setting for almost just as long,

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so she has a lot of experience.

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In this episode, we'll learn about all the things

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you have to keep in mind when setting world championship

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routes for Paraclimbers, what it's

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like in the route setting scene as a female setter,

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and what it's like owning a climbing gym, which

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I am super jealous of.

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Hope you enjoy this episode with Carlie.

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Yeah, how are you doing today?

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Yeah, not too bad.

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My son was up all night vomiting.

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Oh my god.

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Yeah, sort of bad.

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Yesterday still.

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Yeah, so it's like 7 AM here.

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And at about midnight it started.

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And I'm just like, oh, not tonight.

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I need to be up early.

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But that's OK.

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He's chilling out on the lounge.

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He's doing a little better now?

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A little bit, yeah.

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Still a bit warm.

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But yeah, just a bug, I guess.

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Yeah, I mean, if you need to take a break and do anything,

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feel free to just let me know.

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My husband Rob's out there.

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He's pretty good.

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OK, sounds good.

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And I mean, I guess are you still

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planning on going out to climb today then?

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I don't know.

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We haven't had much sleep.

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So we'll see how we go.

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Yeah, it's supposed to be around 40 degrees today, which

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I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit,

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but it's really hot.

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Oh yeah, in Celsius.

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Yeah, yeah, OK.

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I wasn't sure I had to think about it for a bit.

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Yeah.

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I've actually never been to the southern hemisphere, I think.

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So whenever I have to think about the seasons being

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different, it really, really messes with me.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It'd be nice to be in winter.

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I really hate summer.

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Yeah, I guess it gets pretty extreme there.

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I've never been, so I have no idea.

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Yeah, yeah.

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The last couple of summers, it's been quite wet.

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So we haven't had a full summer of 40 degrees.

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But this summer has been a lot warmer than normal.

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Yeah.

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Well, yeah, I hope you do get a chance to go out.

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But yeah, I guess I don't know what

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will happen with your son.

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How old is your son, by the way?

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He's nine.

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So he went back to school after the summer break,

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like two days ago.

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So it could have been that all the kids coming back together

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again.

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Yeah, that's around the age.

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I remember I was a really sick kid.

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I would constantly just be getting illnesses.

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I would be stomach flu all the time.

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That was a regular occurrence for me.

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Oh, no.

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That's horrible.

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Yeah, it's just kids.

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Oh, yeah.

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They bring home everything.

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Yeah, hopefully you don't catch anything.

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I'm a bit scared if I start to feel like, oh.

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Yeah, that's the worst.

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Oh, well, it's OK.

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We can get into motherhood a bit later.

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I did want to ask a bit about that,

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because that's a totally different experience.

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But yeah, getting right into it, when and how did you

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get into climbing and setting?

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I started in 1995, so almost 20 years ago, 25 years ago,

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just through school.

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So we used to pick a sport each week.

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And I went to the local climbing gym, which had only

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been open for a year.

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So climbing gyms were quite new.

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And then, yes, I picked climbing.

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And then that was it for the rest of my school.

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I just climbed.

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You're just immediately new.

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Yep, I was hooked.

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And I think maybe about six months later, I

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got a job there washing holds.

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And so that was my second home for my whole school years.

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And then it was probably not long after.

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The owner was just like, hey, you

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want to try setting a route?

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And I was putting up routes really early, maybe

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a couple of years in.

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I got to wash all the holds.

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So you get familiar with washing them.

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We were washing them by hand with a brush.

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Oh, you didn't have the power washers?

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No, no.

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We had a big sink of hot water, boiling hot water,

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scrubbing them with a toothbrush or a brush.

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And I thought it was great.

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I got to buy my first climbing shoes, my harness, a rope.

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It was a great start into my climbing career.

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Yeah, so you've been setting for a long time then too.

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Yep, commercially setting a long, long time.

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And then I started comp setting probably around 2005.

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So that's still a while as well.

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So did you have to take courses?

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I don't know how it works in Australia,

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but here there are some courses that you can take

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to get certified.

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And we still don't really have that either.

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At the moment, you just set for a state level competition,

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and you'll get assessed by the head setter.

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And then you'll set at a nationals,

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and you'll get assessed by the national head setter.

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And then you're accredited.

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Gotcha.

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So you just get recommended to set for these things?

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Yep, you apply, and then the setting committee

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selects you based on your experience.

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It's a small community here, so we pretty well

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know everyone that sets around all the different gyms.

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Yeah, so back early on, there wasn't many setters at all.

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So it was like I was competing a lot.

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So then I was just like, oh, hey, I might start

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setting for these events.

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And I was probably the only female at the time setting.

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And so you also were doing competitions.

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Were you doing it at a national level or an IFSC level?

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I was competing since I started climbing,

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so as a young age, as a junior.

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There wasn't many juniors here in Australia

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around the late 90s.

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So I was competing as an open.

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And I won my first nationals in 97.

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And then I won every year for quite a few years in a row.

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So I was national champion.

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And then I went to the States and did

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a bunch of touchstone international juniors.

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And that was like 98, 99, and 2000, I think.

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OK, I didn't know they had that.

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Yeah, yeah, a lot of countries came to it.

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I remember competing against South Africa,

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a couple of European countries.

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They don't still do that, do they?

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I don't think I've seen.

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No, no, I think it was only for like a couple of years

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in a row.

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But I won my age category in 99.

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So that was like 18, 19 years.

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Yeah, so I competed nationally and internationally

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for a while.

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I did a whole bunch of X Games in Malaysia and Thailand.

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And I didn't get to any World Cups.

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And then in terms of back to setting,

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how did you specifically get into setting for Paraclimbers?

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I think it was around 2015, we had some climbers,

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some Paraclimbers that were keen to start competing.

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And we didn't have the category for it.

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So it was just like, yeah, let's start,

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and we'll set a couple of routes,

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and we'll go from there.

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So I think it was Nationals 15 that we had maybe two

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competitors.

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It was in Queensland.

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And then from then on, we kind of got a few extra climbers

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in each state and each Nationals.

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And up to the point where I think this state titles that

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we're about to have in Sydney, we've

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got maybe 10 competitors, which is our highest competitors.

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Yeah, did you have to do any extra clinics or courses

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in order to start setting for Paraclimbers?

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No.

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Well, we don't have any setting classes anyway.

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So it was just a matter of chatting to the competitors.

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I climbed with a couple of them just

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to see how they moved and what to expect.

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And then it was a matter of just setting and going from there.

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And I think with my background and experience,

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we did a pretty good job of it helped climbing with them

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very much.

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And I think at the IFSC level, during my last interview

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with Anita and Christian, I think

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I learned that there's a handbook on setting

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for Paraclimbers for IFSC.

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So can you go over what's in there and some of the things

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that you have to keep in mind for each sports class?

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Yeah, so the handbook kind of talks

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about the different categories and the different grades

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that we're setting.

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And then it talks about different angles

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and what categories shouldn't be on.

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We use the speed wall a lot.

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So we've got certain categories that don't like that.

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Then there's categories that don't like super steep.

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So you've got to be mindful of volumes,

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that maybe some of the AL categories and RP categories,

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they don't have that range of movement to go around,

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be bulky volumes.

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Some of the categories don't like in the World Cups.

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We're always setting on a super steep wall.

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So the big blade wall, which is really steep

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and it's quite challenging to get some of those categories

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up and into the route.

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Which are the classes that don't like the steep wall?

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Because I thought with like amputee categories,

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that would probably be preferred since a lot of them

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are often like canvassing.

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Yep, yep.

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So the AL categories generally like the steep.

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And I think it's different in whoever you talk to.

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They have their preferences.

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But like an RP category, so range of movement, RP1,

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they find the steep quite tricky because they're not,

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they can't move their legs up as high.

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So in the steep, their bodies become out

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and then they find it really challenging.

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Also, you've got to watch out for like the holds

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that you're using.

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So anything that's like quite rounded on a steep terrain

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is quite hard.

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You can't get that like pulling power.

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Yeah, do you find that there's like one sports class that

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is hardest for you to set?

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I reckon I find the AU category, so upper amputee.

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So anyone that's, their reach will be a little different

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because they're either going with their full arm

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or their half arms.

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And then they're holding holds quite with their stump.

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They're holding quite holds different to what

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we would hold them.

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So when we're testing, we're like, oh, you know,

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trying to hold it with our palm or we're like.

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But then I'm always thinking that they're

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a lot better climber with their condition than what

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I am trying to climb, pretend to climb like that.

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So I'm like, I always give them the benefit of the doubt

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and think, yep, they're strong.

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They can do this.

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But the big one for that is reach.

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Yeah, definitely.

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And I think that reminds me of one of the Discord questions

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that came through, which was when setting for para climbers

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is the fact that disabilities are often

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asymmetrical a consideration.

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So like, if it's like a left or right arm

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and then they have like a stump on one and the other,

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they have full reach.

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So then how does it kind of work there?

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Yeah, so we test for both left and right

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and make sure that it's fair throughout the whole route.

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We might think, OK, this move is a little bit

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tricky for right amputee.

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But then the next move is actually not too bad for left

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or lower down.

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And then kind of always adding like a little intermediate.

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Or if it's lower amputee, we're adding

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like another little foot jib or just

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to make it fair on both sides.

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Do you kind of like keep track of the number of like,

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oh, this is easier for right and this is easier for left?

00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,520
Or is it just more of like a vibe?

00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,080
Yeah, it's more vibe and like always chatting

00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,560
with the other setters and opinions across the board

00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:38,520
matter.

00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:43,120
Are there any, I guess, like para setters who are also

00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,960
para climbers?

00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,200
I think there is a couple in the States

00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:56,080
that are starting to set more, but internationally not yet.

00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,680
And that would be really cool to have a para climbing

00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,160
on the setting team.

00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:02,920
Yeah, great to have like another para

00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,200
wise on what may or may not work as well.

00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,000
Yeah, and just how it feels to them,

00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,960
it feels a lot different to us.

00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,880
Yeah, there's like not really a way of knowing, I guess.

00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,600
You know, I follow a lot of the climbers on Instagram

00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,800
and you can watch them climb and on different climbs

00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:23,760
and see that.

00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,000
So you have a pretty good idea.

00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,080
Yeah, and so another part of it is that at the World Cups,

00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,280
you can only set a certain number of routes

00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,240
and there's a whole bunch of different classifications.

00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,560
So how do you kind of go about setting

00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,680
where different classifications have to climb the same route?

00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,720
Yeah, it gets super tricky having

00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,880
like a whole bunch of classes on one route.

00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,400
And it's something that we've been

00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,160
looking at the International Roots

00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:03,040
Seeding Paraclimbing Committee, trying to get more routes

00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,720
or change up the timetable so we can allow

00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,320
them to split the categories.

00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,800
But yeah, it's really tricky having like an AU category

00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,680
competing against an AL category.

00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,080
But so there always tends to be like one route that has

00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,920
a whole bunch of categories on it.

00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,840
And you kind of know that it's not

00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,840
going to be ideal for one of those,

00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,960
but it's a sacrifice that we have to do, you know.

00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:42,880
You've got to keep testing and testing and testing,

00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,960
and hopefully it works.

00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,400
So is it always the same categories that get

00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,880
merged onto the same route?

00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,280
It tends to be, yeah.

00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,720
Just the way the format and the timetable is.

00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,360
We only have one day for qualifications

00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,640
and one day for finals.

00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,520
So you have to, you know, and every year it's getting bigger.

00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,480
So yeah, the timetable is just kind of pushing out.

00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,240
In one day you have so many competitors

00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,440
doing this one route that has to be used

00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,120
for one of the categories.

00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,080
How do you think your setting would

00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,280
change if you were just like given the ability

00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,280
to set a different route for each sports class?

00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,520
It would give us heaps more freedom

00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,920
to be able to set for that class properly.

00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,920
Yeah.

00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:39,360
I think the change ended up this year,

00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,960
and they are kind of splitting it

00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:49,400
to qualifications and finals in one day for different classes.

00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,920
So you'll have a certain number of classes on this day

00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,600
and a certain number of us on that day.

00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:59,040
So maybe overnight you get a chance to tweak that route

00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,920
and make it a little bit fairer for that class.

00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:03,400
I think it's going to take some time

00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,000
to think about how it's going to work,

00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,440
and we can go from there.

00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,440
Yeah.

00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,640
I guess for each class, what would kind of change?

00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:18,680
Can you visualize how you would tweak it

00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,920
to make it maybe the perfect route for a blind climber

00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,400
or an amputee climber or an RP climber?

00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,600
No, I don't think there's the perfect route for them

00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,520
because climbing, it's so different every time you set

00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,560
and you don't get set with what you've got,

00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,720
the holds and the wall and the volume.

00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:50,240
I find it's best just to set as you would normally.

00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,680
You want to show the best product on the wall,

00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:01,000
and then you kind of test for that class.

00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,800
So you just set a normal route and be like,

00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:09,160
this looks cool, this works, it looks like a good climb,

00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,600
and then you test and just tweak little things as you go.

00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,680
And so are you testing with various,

00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,760
I know you mentioned earlier you would sometimes

00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,160
try to test without using your palm or something like that.

00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,840
Do you forerun the routes with various, I guess, handicaps?

00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,080
Is that the right word?

00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,840
Yeah, yeah.

00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:34,920
Yeah, we definitely throughout the three to five setters,

00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:41,680
how many we've got, we'll each take a class.

00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,880
So we might be like, OK, you test with left amputee,

00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,080
right amputee, a lower, and then we go from there.

00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:55,600
And even hanging on the rope, we might just switch sides just

00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,840
to test the crux or something like that.

00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,240
So I guess you've also tried climbing with a blindfold on

00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,160
or something like that.

00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:04,640
Yeah, yeah.

00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,120
With blind, we don't test it generally

00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:12,960
with our eyes closed because we know their ability

00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,320
and we know how they climb.

00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:22,400
The blind climbers tend to be really, really strong

00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,520
because they're locking off and they're kind of reaching

00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,400
and feeling at the same time.

00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:35,400
So we kind of because there's lots of static movement.

00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:41,520
So we try not to have massive dinos or big dead points.

00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,800
I mean, are there ever dinos for the blind category?

00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:46,800
That sounds a little bit insane.

00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,760
No, no, no.

00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,920
Sometimes maybe a little bit higher dead point.

00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,880
But we wouldn't put a dino or a paddle or something

00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:00,880
like that in there.

00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,400
Yeah.

00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,640
That would be crazy.

00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:03,800
Yeah.

00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,080
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,960
But they are pretty adventurous.

00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,080
I'm sure if we tested them with something like that,

00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,200
they'd be up for it.

00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,480
Yeah, that would be interesting to see.

00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,840
Have you ever set a move for paragliding

00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,360
that just did not work out at all the way

00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,560
that you wanted it to or expected it to?

00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,120
I was trying to think of something

00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,800
to answer that question, but I couldn't quite think

00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,080
in terms of moves.

00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,760
In terms of like hold types that we've used, yes.

00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,840
There's always maybe an incident where you're like,

00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,280
oh, that hold just wasn't the best for that category.

00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,360
I think the World Cup, the World Championships in Bern,

00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:54,040
there was a final on the massive steep wall for the RP1

00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,920
categories, so their range of movement.

00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,480
They found it really hard on the start

00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,240
because they were these massive big macros,

00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,200
and they were really slopey.

00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,120
And so there was kind of nothing for them to pull with.

00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,640
They were really open-handed.

00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,960
But they were the holds that we had to use in terms of sponsors.

00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,680
And so it was kind of like we had to make do with what we had,

00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520
but it wasn't ideal.

00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,320
Yeah, I'll have to look back at that,

00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,640
see if I can find it and link it for people to see.

00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,160
Yeah, they were massive blocks.

00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,200
I think they were macros.

00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,920
And they were beautiful holds, but they just

00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,640
weren't for that category.

00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,720
Did you already know before they started climbing on it

00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,640
that it would be an issue, or you didn't realize until after you

00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,720
saw them?

00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:54,320
Yeah, we thought, OK, we've done the best we can with this.

00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,760
It should work.

00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,760
But then afterwards, we had a few people falling off quite low.

00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:06,120
And we're like, yeah, maybe we could have done something.

00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:13,080
We did them, so we screwed big holds onto them to try and help that.

00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:19,280
But we just didn't have the ideal hold that we wanted to screw on there.

00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,200
Yeah, because I guess you have just requirements from the IFSC

00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,720
on what kind of holds you're allowed to use.

00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,840
Yeah, and for Bern, there were certain sponsorships

00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,160
that they had that supplied all the holds.

00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,840
And they did a really good job.

00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:41,520
We had an amazing, amazing set of holds to choose from.

00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,720
It was a really fun event coming in and seeing all these holds up

00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,720
on the grandstand.

00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,080
And we were just like, oh, wow, this is really cool.

00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,560
Yeah, did you get any, I guess, complaints from the athletes

00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:58,000
on that setting where it was just too difficult?

00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,200
Yeah, we did have a few people come over and just let us know.

00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,880
And I think that's perfectly fine to have the feedback.

00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,200
And we're always learning what we can do better next time

00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,920
and what worked and what didn't.

00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,520
So I think feedback is great.

00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:22,400
And I guess, do you have a suggestion on how

00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:28,200
people can get into setting for Paraclimbers specifically?

00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,400
Probably the best thing to do is just contact

00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,360
the local Paraclimbing Committee groups

00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,840
and to see if people are setting for them

00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:48,000
and get into your regionals, your state level,

00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,320
and then the national competitions.

00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,600
Yeah, chat to the Paraclimbers.

00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,280
They're always happy to have a chat and tell you what works

00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,320
and what doesn't.

00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,840
Yeah.

00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,800
Yeah, there's not many people setting for Parac,

00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,160
so it's always good to have more people.

00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,200
Yeah, and I think it's growing as well,

00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,560
especially if it ends up making it into the Paralympics.

00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,760
I think that'd be really great.

00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,120
Oh, yeah, that'd be exciting.

00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,320
Do you think you would be able to set for that

00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,120
if that ended up happening in 2028?

00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:25,160
Oh, I would love to.

00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,400
It'd be amazing to be able to set at the Olympics.

00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,480
But there's quite a few of us on the international team.

00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,600
So it would just be a matter of who gets selected to go

00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,120
and who's the best people.

00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:41,960
Be cool.

00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,040
Yeah, definitely.

00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,760
And I mean, Byrne was really cool as well.

00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,280
I think I saw that Byrne marked you

00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,840
being the first female chief route setter at a world

00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,520
championship.

00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,160
For world championships, yeah.

00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,000
Yeah, OK.

00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:57,880
Yeah, that's awesome.

00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,800
Congrats on that.

00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,760
Thank you.

00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,240
And so back in the day when you first started setting,

00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,840
it was quite early.

00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,120
It was quite a long time ago.

00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:12,080
There were even fewer women in climbing and setting.

00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,440
So how was it like trying to break into route setting

00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,440
back then?

00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,320
And I guess, how does it compare to now?

00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:26,240
Yeah, I think I was super lucky to break into setting

00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,400
because there wasn't many people actually setting for comps

00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,600
because most people were trying to compete.

00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,080
So it was a matter of, hey, we need setters

00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,840
to be able to set for this comp.

00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,160
Like, who can set?

00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:48,960
And as most incidents, I was the only female for a while

00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,240
setting these lead comps.

00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,040
And then as it got more popular, there

00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,440
was more setters coming along.

00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:07,080
And again, a lot of the time, I was the only female.

00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,680
As bouldering got more popular, there

00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,640
was a couple more females setting.

00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,680
But I think I was lucky to be around in that era

00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,400
when there was a desperate need for setters.

00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,400
So I kind of just fell into it.

00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,400
And my husband and I ran the association for a while

00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,720
as well.

00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,720
So we were actually running the comps as well

00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,840
as at a national level.

00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,360
So you said a lot of people wanted to just compete

00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:38,240
instead of setting.

00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,760
So do you feel like you kind of gave up the competing route

00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,280
so that you could take on the route setting journey?

00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Yeah, I did have to make a decision about whether I

00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,600
wanted to keep competing or setting.

00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,520
I really enjoyed the setting.

00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,280
And I felt like I was good at it.

00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,840
And I was experienced.

00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,320
And I knew that I had to kind of do it.

00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,520
So there was a female testing.

00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,160
There was always a problem with, like I remember

00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,440
from back in the day, there was no female setters.

00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,800
So there was no one testing those moves that the girls

00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,160
were on.

00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,640
So I felt like it was my duty to be a setter and be like, OK,

00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:35,400
I can do these moves and test these moves at a high level.

00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,400
I should jump in and do this.

00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,720
So the routes are great and fair.

00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:47,080
And it's not always like a dude's moves and, you know,

00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,280
stalker moves or whatever.

00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,320
Please excuse this brief intermission.

00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,920
But I would just like to remind you

00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,800
that if you are enjoying this podcast,

00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,040
please follow and rate it on your preferred listening

00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,000
platform.

00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,560
If you're watching on YouTube, I would

00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,160
love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below.

00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,160
Anything helps to push this podcast out to more people

00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240
and get even more amazing guests on.

00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:10,360
Back to the show.

00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,400
And how do you feel like it compares

00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,760
to trying to become a route setter now as a woman?

00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,720
Do you think it's easier?

00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,360
Like, have we made enough progress

00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680
or is there still a lot more that needs to be done?

00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,000
Yeah, I think we have made a lot of progress.

00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,520
We have a lot more space for learning

00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,600
in terms of female or women setters.

00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,960
Like when people apply for competitions,

00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,880
I know in Australia we have a lot more females applying.

00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,200
It's not 50-50, but it's definitely getting up there.

00:30:52,200 --> 00:31:02,800
And the space is quite welcoming in terms of setting dynamics

00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:03,640
with the guys.

00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,960
When it got more popular and I was setting with,

00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,280
I was the token female on the team,

00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,080
it was really hard to push my voice and be like, hey,

00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,520
I'm actually here because I'm a female

00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,320
and I'm testing these routes for the females.

00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:30,480
And then your opinion gets lost a lot of the time.

00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,880
But I think things are really different these days.

00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,680
We have some really good males on the team that are quite open.

00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,440
And we have the space to learn as well.

00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,120
Yeah, that's good to hear.

00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,640
And earlier you had mentioned testing it out

00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:54,720
so there wouldn't be stopper moves on the women's routes.

00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,240
I guess how would you characterize

00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,040
setting for men's climbing versus women's climbing?

00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,920
Because as a non-setter, I really

00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,440
have no idea what feels different in that way.

00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:15,400
Yeah, I think reach is probably the most common mistake.

00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,560
So I'm a 5'1 climber, so I'm quite short.

00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:30,200
So then I'll test every route for the females

00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,640
or even for the, like I said, the regular youth comps as well.

00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,880
So I'm at a good height where some of the kids

00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,280
actually are way taller than me.

00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,960
Yeah, but I think that's super important for a female route,

00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,080
I think, is reach.

00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:57,960
I know in Australia there's a huge range of reach

00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,720
in the female category.

00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,480
So it's super important to make sure it's fair.

00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,480
Anything else to do with box size or flexibility,

00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,240
or does that come into play much?

00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,160
Not generally.

00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,920
Climbers would do what they're best at, of course,

00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,800
and everyone is different.

00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,640
And you'd be like, oh, I didn't realize the moves

00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:25,800
could be done like that.

00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,160
That's interesting.

00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,320
But yeah, I don't think, yeah.

00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,440
I think reach is probably the best one.

00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,880
Do you think more female setters at the IFSC

00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,560
would make a big difference?

00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,720
Definitely always, in any incidence for sure.

00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,800
But I think the IFSC are definitely

00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,800
looking to change that up.

00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,760
And there's some diversity program

00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,160
that they have happening at the moment.

00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,040
And there's been a couple of events

00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,480
where there hasn't been a female on the team.

00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,480
And I don't know if that's due to no one was available,

00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,800
or they just had no one.

00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,680
But I think they're trying to make sure

00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,040
that there's a female on each team,

00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,840
or if not one, there's a couple.

00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,560
There's not many that are setting.

00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,520
I know in Boulder, there's quite a few more female setting,

00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,320
but not for Lee, only a few.

00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:32,440
And again, those female women, they want to be competing.

00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,360
As well.

00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Yeah, there's a couple of women on the lead teams

00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,040
that actually compete still.

00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,880
They compete and set?

00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,080
No, they want to compete and do the World Cups themselves.

00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,200
So they'll do a couple of years setting

00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,000
and then a couple of years competing.

00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,480
Oh, OK.

00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:03,200
But I think that's changing with having a few more females that

00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,720
can set.

00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:05,560
Right, yeah.

00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,000
Yeah, there was like someone on the French team, I think.

00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,560
Yeah, Hannah.

00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,840
She was setting for quite a few years,

00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,880
and now she's gone back to competing.

00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,280
Oh, what's the last name again?

00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,320
Hannah.

00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,640
I can't remember, sorry.

00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,680
OK, we all have to look into that.

00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:33,120
Yeah, did you do any IFSC setting not for paraclimbing?

00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,880
No, I haven't as yet.

00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:41,800
I applied to set Lee this year, but the IFSC

00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,800
haven't put out any of their setters yet.

00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,640
Hopefully, we find out.

00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,680
Yeah.

00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,720
Yeah, hopefully you make it in.

00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:53,560
Did you apply like previous years as well?

00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,320
And you just weren't selected?

00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,240
No, this is the first year I've applied for a non-para place.

00:35:59,240 --> 00:35:59,840
Yeah.

00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,920
Yeah, that'll be exciting.

00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,880
What do you have like a favorite kind of move

00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,320
that you like to set or like a certain style that you

00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,480
feel like is unique to you?

00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,120
I think, no, I generally like setting lead routes more,

00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,000
because that's, I guess, preferably what I like climbing.

00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,320
I like to set like super sustained routes.

00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,040
So there's nothing hard, but it just slowly, slowly, slowly

00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,200
builds.

00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,680
And by the top, you're just like super box pumped,

00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,960
and you're like just holding on.

00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,120
I think that's kind of classically my type of route

00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,440
that I'll set.

00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,880
Just super pumpy.

00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,760
Sounds awful.

00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,640
It's amazing.

00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,600
I only boulder for right now, so yeah, that

00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,520
sounds like a nightmare to me.

00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,440
No, there's nothing better than helping us climb.

00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,840
And like your forearms are like blowing up,

00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,720
and you're just like, that was awesome.

00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:09,920
I was pumped.

00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,120
I get like pretty freaked out once I

00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,520
start to feel the pump.

00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,400
It like triggers this thing inside my brain that's

00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,240
just like panic mode.

00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:19,200
Oh, right.

00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,400
Yeah, you got to try and do a few more circuits.

00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,120
Yeah, probably.

00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,080
Yeah.

00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,800
But yeah, as you were talking about earlier,

00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,840
you are also a mother.

00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,520
And I am kind of curious how that has impacted,

00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,680
I guess, your climbing and setting career.

00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,440
Yeah, well, when Remy was born, I kind of

00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:50,840
had a few years off setting just because it was mayhem,

00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,960
of course.

00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:59,320
Yeah, but you kind of learn as the time goes on,

00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,440
and you're like, OK, I've got to rethink how I train,

00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,520
rethink how I'm going to work.

00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,880
You end up doing like really short sessions,

00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:17,320
but maybe more of them just because of the time.

00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,080
And I think my climbing has actually

00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,240
improved because I know my time is valuable,

00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,320
and I've just got to like, OK, I've got one hour.

00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:33,120
Got to get in, do my session, and get it done.

00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,760
Yeah, so I've actually become a better climber.

00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:41,720
I'm a stronger climber now than I was before having Remy.

00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:46,080
Yeah, I've just learned a lot.

00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,080
Yeah, I think the thought of doing that

00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,680
has always terrified me.

00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,240
So I kind of feel this rush that I

00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:02,440
need to get as strong as possible, as early as possible,

00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,560
because it's all just going to disappear soon.

00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,320
So that's nice to hear.

00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,360
Yeah, I think you've just got to be really dedicated to it.

00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,200
And it's hard work.

00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:19,160
It's hard being like, oh, man, I've still got to train today,

00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,520
or I'm not going to train today.

00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,080
But then if you've just got that willpower to be like,

00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,360
no, I can get it done.

00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:32,160
I'll feel much better if I can get an hour session in.

00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,840
And then everyone is happy, if you're happy.

00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,320
Yeah, did you do any climbing or training while pregnant?

00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,280
Because I've seen some people do it,

00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,160
and it looks a little terrifying.

00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,960
But I have seen it happen.

00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,240
Yeah, I had a lot of complications

00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:50,240
with a couple of pregnancies.

00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:55,600
So that last kind of pregnancy with Remy, I was just like,

00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,120
no, I'm not going to do anything.

00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,960
I was recommended to just rest.

00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,200
So I just did that.

00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,480
So I didn't climb for, yeah, nine to 10 months.

00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,320
I think I started climbing about six or seven weeks

00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,360
after having Remy.

00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,240
That's pretty fast.

00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:18,320
Yeah, I had a cesarean as well, so I just had to take it.

00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,280
So for a couple of months, I just climbed super easy,

00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,120
enjoyed being at the gym, doing a few laps.

00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,640
And yeah.

00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:28,680
Oh, my gosh.

00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,200
Yeah.

00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,600
Wait, I think I heard that I've heard a lot of horror stories

00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,000
about pregnancy in general.

00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,600
So maybe that's where my concerns come from.

00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,360
Yes, yeah.

00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:42,440
But yeah.

00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,240
But I heard that if you have a C-section,

00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:51,040
then it cuts through all of your muscles as well.

00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,920
And so you can't even use your core.

00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,720
I've heard people can't even pick up their babies

00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:59,360
or hold their babies because their core is too weak.

00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,720
Yeah, it depends on the incident for sure.

00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,320
You do lose core.

00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:12,560
I found coming back, the core was the last thing to engage.

00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,480
Yeah.

00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,120
Even just climbing and lifting your foot up to the next hole

00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,680
was hard work.

00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,880
Yeah.

00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,720
But I just did lots of super easy climbing and enjoyed it.

00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:28,560
And it came back.

00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,040
Yeah.

00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,320
But I reckon it would be one of my weaknesses.

00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,240
It's healed now.

00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:34,160
It'd be cool.

00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:35,040
Yeah.

00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,640
But I mean, you were still able to start climbing six weeks

00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:38,480
after?

00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,760
Yeah.

00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,360
Just you had to be like, OK, I can't do anything hard.

00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,720
Just got to go easy.

00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,880
And if you're willing to do that,

00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,240
then the process is quite good.

00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:55,120
How long do you feel like it took you to get back

00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:00,680
into pre-pregnancy shape?

00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,120
I reckon a year.

00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,400
Yeah.

00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,440
Because your baby is really little

00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:14,480
and you may not get climbing one week or things happen.

00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,040
And so I think probably the inconsistency

00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,040
of climbing that first year is probably the major factor

00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,160
to getting back into it.

00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,040
Yeah.

00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,480
I mean, actually, a year's not bad at all.

00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,640
I kind of, I mean, clearly, I've had a very,

00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,520
I've heard a lot of nightmare stories.

00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,160
Yeah.

00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,360
And having a supportive partner is probably

00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,440
the next major thing that helps you get back

00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,920
into your climbing, sharing the load

00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,640
and having support around helps.

00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:52,360
Yeah.

00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,840
Having a plan.

00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,520
Yeah, a little bit less scared.

00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,800
Yeah, you'll be right.

00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,400
Yeah, so moving on, you had also mentioned to me

00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,840
that you own a gym, which I'm super jealous of

00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:07,720
because that's something that I always

00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:11,560
was really something that I dreamed of a couple of years

00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,280
back and then I took a look into the finances of it all

00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,560
and I'm like, I don't have the money for that.

00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,320
So yeah, if you don't mind, I would

00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,280
love to live through you and learn about what that's

00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,760
like to own a gym.

00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,960
Yeah, yeah, tell me a bit about it.

00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,040
I've worked in a climbing gym basically my whole life.

00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,800
So I've grown up in a gym.

00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:41,520
I got the opportunity to manage Villa Wood from the start.

00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,600
So I was managing the gym for like about five years

00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,440
when me and my husband were like, oh, maybe we

00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,200
should look into opening a new gym.

00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,880
It was kind of the start of the phase of a lot of bouldering

00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,800
gyms popping up or a couple had.

00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,800
And then it was like the owners of Villa Wood were like, well,

00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,120
why don't you just buy in and get some shares in here?

00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,480
Like you're running the place, you know how it works.

00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,840
And I was like, yeah, that makes sense.

00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,640
So yeah, we bought like bought into like half the gym.

00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,520
And that's been it ever since.

00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,400
I think we've owned it for six years now.

00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,640
We're going on to 13 years being open.

00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,760
So I've been there a while now.

00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,400
And since you also set for like world champs

00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,360
and big national level competitions,

00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:46,720
do you also tend to set more comp style stuff in your gym?

00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,840
Yeah, so we host a lot of national and state events

00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,520
at Villa Wood.

00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,880
So we try, so we have the lead walls to set comp style routes.

00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,080
And a lot of the Sydney climbers know

00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,200
that if you go to Villa Wood, you're

00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,480
going to get like X, Y, and Z on these walls.

00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,280
You're going to get some hard comp routes to train on.

00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:18,920
So with my set team, we set comp hard lead routes all the time.

00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,080
But then we also have to think about the general public.

00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,720
So we set a lot of commercial style routes as well.

00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,880
Yeah, it's I think hard to get the right balance.

00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,840
I don't know what it's like in Australia.

00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:37,940
But as far as I've seen in the US, lots of gyms around me,

00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:40,640
people will complain about there being too much comp

00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,080
style in the gyms.

00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,720
OK.

00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,840
Yeah, is that like a similar experience in Australia?

00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,600
I think it would be the opposite, actually.

00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Yeah, not enough gyms are setting harder comp style routes.

00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,680
Yeah, they're definitely marketed towards the beginner

00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,320
kind of commercial set.

00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:12,160
There would be a few gyms that definitely have

00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,760
set a few comp style routes.

00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,080
And the difficulty has to be hard as well.

00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,280
It has to be a certain level for the top guys to be like,

00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,760
oh, yeah, I'm going to go to this gym

00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,280
because I know I'm going to get this to train on.

00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,720
But yeah, I think the gyms need to, you know,

00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:37,560
I think the harder you set, the harder your climbers are going

00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,400
to move up the ladder.

00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,320
And there's going to be more people at that elite level.

00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:48,320
I guess there's a difference between hard sets,

00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,200
not comp style versus comp style.

00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,520
I think here people want to see, I don't know,

00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,680
just hard pulling or really small holds

00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,840
or something like that rather than tricky comp style climbs.

00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,720
But yeah, there's always a lot of uproar about that here.

00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:07,400
Yeah, yeah.

00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,240
So there's a lot of difference between setting hard

00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:15,200
and setting comp style hard for sure.

00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,640
And with a lot of boulder gyms around,

00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:23,240
that there is a lot more comp style problems being set.

00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:25,480
And some people just want boulders

00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,600
you can train on and get strong on.

00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,920
So yeah, it's a fine line.

00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,480
We have a lot of boulder gyms in Sydney.

00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,760
So we tend to set more of that hard style training

00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,960
focus at Villa Wood because I know it's different

00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:50,000
and people come to train strength basically at Villa

00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,560
Wood.

00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,480
And then we have our big lead wars

00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,400
that we have all these kind of hard, hard climbs

00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,920
to train on.

00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,000
You could be doing laps or on site practice or yeah.

00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:11,240
Do you also do any setting for like para climbers in the area?

00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:15,440
We do a few different workshops for them

00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:20,360
where we'll focus on setting for a couple of different classes

00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,680
if we know there's a couple of climbers around.

00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,480
And they'll generally just get in contact with me

00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,520
and be like, hey, I'm coming out for a weekend.

00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,160
Yeah, but I've done it in the past

00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:39,720
where I've set a wall for different classes.

00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:41,560
Yeah, it's hard to do all the time.

00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,680
And generally, like para climbers

00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:52,480
will just jump on normal able-bodied climbers routes

00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,400
and just give it a go because it will be weaknesses

00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,080
that they need to train.

00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,320
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,040
I guess like when they go outside and climb,

00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,720
it's not really set specifically with them in mind either.

00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:12,840
No, you have to work out a way to do it with your disability.

00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,840
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:15,760
Very cool.

00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,440
I hope one day I can figure out how to get into the gym scene

00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,120
on my own gym, have some kind of vision.

00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,320
Yeah, get a few people involved.

00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:25,840
It's always easy.

00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:31,680
Yeah, I would love to have a very comp-focused gym.

00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:38,120
I've seen one of the gyms in, I think, Hawaii.

00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,800
They set a different showcase comp-style boulder

00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,760
every week or so.

00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,000
And I think something like that would be really cool.

00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,000
Yeah, I think a few gyms do that for sure.

00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,760
They'll have their king line for the week

00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,400
where that one wall has just this one beautiful looking boulder.

00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,880
And then it might get filled in later.

00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:04,920
Right, yeah.

00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,880
Do you guys do that or no?

00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,400
Yeah, we tend to do that as well.

00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,520
Yeah, and it gives the setters a day to have a play

00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:17,200
and kind of play with those different style boulder problems

00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,960
or lead routes, which are the same.

00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,160
Cool.

00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,640
So I think now's a good time we can just

00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,960
get into some of the Discord questions.

00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,560
These are ones submitted by people in the community who

00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,600
had questions for you.

00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,160
And it's just kind of like a grab bag

00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,680
of all of your experience.

00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,720
So the first one, have you ever felt

00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:45,680
like people have a conscious or unconscious bias against you

00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,760
or doubt your skills because you're a female setter?

00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,080
Yeah, what needs to happen to get more women

00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:54,840
sitting at the top level?

00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,120
Yeah, I think always it plays on your mind

00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,080
that you're like, maybe I'm not good enough or maybe,

00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,840
you know, that's always, I think, as anyone knows,

00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:12,040
that it's always you're a bit debating in your head.

00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,840
There's also been a couple of situations

00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:20,200
where you've been sitting and it's like a move's gotten

00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,280
changed, even though you couldn't do it

00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,080
or something like that.

00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:33,320
And yeah, and like the second part of the question,

00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,280
to get more females involved, was it?

00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,120
Yeah.

00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,800
Yeah, like I think there's a really good movement happening

00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,760
in Australia at the moment with having more workshops

00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,200
available and more sessions about chatting

00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,160
with different women in the industry.

00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:58,840
And I think it's moving forward for us in Australia.

00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:03,440
I know earlier you mentioned that, I guess, to like move up,

00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,600
you would kind of, someone would be there to like,

00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,400
I guess, watch your sets or judge your sets.

00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,480
I forget the term you used.

00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,600
Assessment.

00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:13,560
Yeah, assessment.

00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,080
Yeah.

00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,120
So is that like a very stressful process,

00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,560
like having someone judge it while you're setting?

00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:29,800
No, I think we're pretty casual, I think, in Australia.

00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:36,760
So pretty well anyone that is getting assessed passes,

00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,160
I would say.

00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:43,120
Yeah, I don't think we've failed many people.

00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,320
Because I think when we're selecting people,

00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:50,040
too, we're selecting people who we think are good enough

00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:51,600
to be on the team.

00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,720
So they're generally going to pass.

00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:58,360
OK, that's good to know.

00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,920
Next one, do you often get writer's block when setting?

00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,640
And what's your process to find inspiration

00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,000
if it doesn't come naturally?

00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,480
Yeah, you definitely have days where you're kind of looking

00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:15,080
at the holds and you're thinking, I'm blank.

00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,520
I don't know what to do.

00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,840
But I think the best thing is to just put some holds

00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:27,320
on the wall, move them around, and talk to your team.

00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,640
If you've got a few team members that are sitting with you

00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,520
like on the same wall or whatever,

00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,280
you've got to ask the questions.

00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,640
And you've got to have really good team dynamics

00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,280
to be able to ask and be like, hey, I'm

00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:42,920
a bit stuck on this move.

00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,840
Do you think I need to change the hold or put a volume on?

00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:53,600
Or I think we all learn by talking and being a team.

00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:59,440
Yeah, do you feel like when you get a new hold set,

00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,080
do you kind of get into this thing

00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,680
where you only want to set with the newer holds?

00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,160
Because I kind of imagine it like putting together

00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,760
outfits with different clothes.

00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,320
You get a new shirt or something,

00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,640
and all you can think about is wearing that new shirt.

00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:16,280
Yeah.

00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:17,520
I think so, yeah.

00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,080
If you're out the back looking for some holds to put up next

00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,520
and you're like, oh, they're the new ones.

00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:25,960
I want to sit with them.

00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:26,840
They're shiny.

00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,880
They're bright.

00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,240
Of course, yeah.

00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:34,840
But then you're like, oh, but maybe I

00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,480
could sit with these old classics because I know them

00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:38,800
and I know how they work.

00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:45,520
And yeah, so it fixes up with what you want to do, yeah.

00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,240
Next one.

00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:49,240
As a setter and as a gym owner, how often

00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:53,000
do you think gym routes or boulders should be reset?

00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,640
Does it depend on the type or style or grade

00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,880
or the demographics of the gym users?

00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:03,000
Yeah, I think it depends on how many people are coming

00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:09,080
through the gym and how dirty the holds are getting.

00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,640
And there's a lot of factors.

00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,520
As the size of the gym, so with Thillawood,

00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,160
we're quite a large gym.

00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:20,640
We have top rows.

00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:21,360
We have lead.

00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:22,120
We have boulder.

00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:28,640
So getting around the whole gym in terms of top ropes and leads

00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:30,080
could take us six months.

00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:36,600
But the boulders, we get around in eight weeks.

00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,880
So it totally depends on the size of the gym.

00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,960
But I think you need to be consistently

00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:47,000
turning over those problems and routes

00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,680
to keep people interested and keep them fresh.

00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:56,240
And keep your setting team going as well,

00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:01,520
keeping them learning and trying new things as well.

00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,720
Are you setting personally within your gym

00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:08,520
or are you more of just an overseer

00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,080
of what it should look like?

00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:17,680
Yeah, I'm on the team as well and guiding the team along.

00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,760
We set twice a week.

00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,600
There might be days where I don't set,

00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:26,160
but I'm still in there helping them test or guiding them

00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,960
with what needs to go up or stuff like that.

00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,560
And then a couple of last questions

00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,920
from Anita, who is one of the people I just

00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,600
had on previously, like an RP3 Paraclimber.

00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,400
I think you know her, right?

00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:42,960
Yeah.

00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,240
OK.

00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:47,480
Yeah, she was wondering, do you have anything

00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:52,000
to do with the isolation setting at all, I guess,

00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,720
at the World Champs or the World Cups?

00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:58,920
And basically, it would be great to have

00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,680
a rope added to the future competitions

00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,040
like they had in Bern if you set for future World Cups.

00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:11,040
Yeah, I know that's always been on and off kind of issue.

00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,800
It just totally depends what the venue has.

00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:20,160
And we generally have to just build the wall

00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,000
with whatever holds we have left.

00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,520
And there's always a discussion about getting a top rope up

00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,720
so that the Paraclimbers can warm up.

00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:35,280
And we always try and do the best that we can

00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,840
and chat with the organizers and the IFSC.

00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,480
And it's their call to see what happens.

00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,400
So like in isolation, the holds that are put up,

00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:48,880
I guess, on a warm up wall are just

00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,440
like whatever is left over from setting the comp?

00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:53,320
Yeah, yeah.

00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,240
Or if it's a gym, then there might be holds

00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:00,800
that we can use from the gym to put up.

00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,560
And generally, it's like if it's like a World Cup that's

00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,680
like at an outside venue, then it's

00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:13,640
just going to be like a straight slightly overhanging wall

00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,240
that a lot of people have to try and get on to warm up.

00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:18,680
So it's a hard process.

00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,360
Yeah.

00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,920
Yeah, you generally want to take your own kind

00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,960
of jingle board or something to warm up on as well.

00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,920
Yeah, because I didn't even think about it

00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:30,720
until last time when it was mentioned

00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:36,280
that at a typical isolation, there's only like a few,

00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,640
like six people or eight people.

00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:44,320
But then at Paraclimbing, it's like tens of, yeah,

00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,320
a lot of people trying to warm up at once.

00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,560
Yes, a couple hundred people trying to warm up.

00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,080
And the timetable is staggered, so there's not

00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,600
so many people at once.

00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:00,600
But it's still hard work trying to warm up.

00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,200
Yeah, definitely.

00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:05,880
And then another question she had

00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,480
was something you had mentioned earlier

00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:13,600
about qualifications and finals happening in one day

00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,520
at the IFSC World Cups.

00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:21,000
I guess, could you first of all explain the current process

00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:26,360
and then what it's changing to, and then the pros and cons

00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:29,160
of setting in one day versus the other?

00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,360
Yeah, I haven't generally been too much involved with that.

00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,920
The IFSC has a committee that they discuss all this with,

00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:41,680
so it's not really up to the root setter, of course.

00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,920
But yeah, the process before was all qualifications in one day

00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,800
and then finals, so now it's been split.

00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,200
So there'll be some classes on one day

00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,280
and then the next classes on another day.

00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,040
Generally, hopefully, it's good for the setting,

01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:04,720
so it means that we can be tweaking those routes overnight.

01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,240
It means we'll be working at night,

01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,960
but most of the time we are, that we

01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,280
can switch up some of the routes and make them

01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,080
a little bit fairer for the classes.

01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,120
And we have four or five days to set these in advance,

01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,680
so we know what we want to do overnight,

01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,160
so it's not like we're trying to think of it that night.

01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,440
I think generally it might be a good thing.

01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,680
It would be good to see it in action and give it a go

01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:40,040
and then go from there, how it's going to look.

01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:44,760
Is that starting out at the first Para World Cup

01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:45,440
of this year?

01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:46,280
Yeah.

01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:47,200
I'm pretty sure.

01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,560
I don't know the timetable or anything yet,

01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:54,320
but I would say that's the new rule.

01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,160
Are you scheduled to set for any of those this year?

01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,200
We haven't been given the schedule yet.

01:00:59,200 --> 01:00:59,800
Oh, right.

01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:00,320
Yeah.

01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,800
No setups have been selected for any events.

01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,120
It's coming up soon.

01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,120
I know, yeah.

01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:11,240
I'm a bit like, oh, I kind of want to know where I'm going

01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,440
and plan the year.

01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,280
But I guess there's a lot of people

01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,920
and there's a lot of events, so trying to organize all that

01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,560
would be a pretty big job.

01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:24,080
That'd be pretty stressful, though.

01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,960
It's coming up pretty fast.

01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,440
The Paraclimbing, we've got a few months.

01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,800
I think it's May.

01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,640
So yeah, it's the first one.

01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:34,640
First one's in Salt Lake.

01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:39,600
So yeah, the Salt Lake one's always a fun event.

01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,920
I've done that one once, and it was really fun.

01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,160
Yeah, I hope you get selected.

01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,480
That'll be a lot of fun.

01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,520
Yeah, yeah, it'll be fun.

01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,760
And I might be at Salt Lake, so.

01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:52,880
Oh, cool.

01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:54,280
I mean, it's a lot closer for me,

01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,920
but I'm hoping to make it out to a few World Cups this year.

01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:00,840
The Salt Lake one's really good because it's

01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,000
bolder in speed and the power of it as well, so you

01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:06,120
get to see a lot.

01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:08,040
Yeah, it's a big one.

01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:09,560
OK.

01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,920
I think that's all of the questions I had.

01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:13,920
Thank you for joining me.

01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:14,880
Once again, thanks.

01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,560
Yeah, anything else that you want to get out there,

01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,520
shout out?

01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:22,000
No, I don't think so.

01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,480
I think we covered a lot of stuff,

01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,720
and it was good to have a chat about.

01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,000
Well, it was nice chatting.

01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,680
And do you want to let people know where they can find you

01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,720
or contact you if they have anything else?

01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,160
Yeah, I'm on Instagram, Carly Climes.

01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,360
You can send me a message, ask away.

01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:44,800
Happy to have a chat anytime.

01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:45,320
Awesome.

01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,560
I'll leave the links in the description.

01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,200
But yeah, thanks again.

01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:51,840
It was amazing to have this talk.

01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,000
Yeah, no, thank you.

01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,000
It was fun.

01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,280
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:59,920
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,080
Otherwise, you are a super fake climber.

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If you're listening on a podcasting platform,

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I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars,

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and you can continue the discussion

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on the free competition climbing discord linked

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in the description.

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Thanks again for listening.