3: Jonathan Sin, Aspiring Pro Climber

00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,840
Hello and welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:11,840
I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Jonathan Sin.

00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:17,920
If you're not familiar with his viral videos lately, he's a quote, normal climber trying

00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,760
to break into the World Cups and turn pro.

00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:27,120
In this episode, we'll talk about what it's like climbing in Hong Kong, his insane training

00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:33,600
for national team tryouts, and what separates a really good normal climber from a pro climber.

00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,160
It was really interesting digging into this story, which was also very personal for him

00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:39,040
to share.

00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,000
So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jonathan.

00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,760
Yes, okay, so we'll just get right into it.

00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,480
You only started climbing in 2019 when you were 18 years old.

00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:05,200
And I think you said that you climbed your first outdoor V13 after two and a half years

00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:05,920
of climbing.

00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:06,640
Is that right?

00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,960
Oh, I think it was like a V11 actually.

00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,200
Yeah, that's still a pretty crazy progression.

00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,200
How did you manage that?

00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:21,440
Oh, I mainly climbed a lot and then I was doing like training quite quickly, but I think

00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,160
I had like a sports background, so it was quite easy for me to pick up sports.

00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:31,040
Also, Hong Kong's climbing scene isn't massive, so it's quite easy to bump into like all the

00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,800
other strongest climbers around and learn from them all the time.

00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,800
So you think like learning from just like climbing with stronger climbers helped a lot?

00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,120
I also like trained quite a bit as well.

00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:49,120
Like after the first year, I got really into like fingerboarding, like campers and stuff.

00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,000
But it was very outdoor specific that year.

00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,120
And when you said you have a sports background, what kind of sports did you do before that?

00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:03,040
I like skateboarded for like a lot of years and then I did rugby, badminton, cross country.

00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,960
I did like quite a lot of stuff, but then I wasn't any good at any of them.

00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,200
I guess I didn't have the same passion I did for climbing.

00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,840
And so it was good to have like my attention and something that I really enjoy.

00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:21,920
Yeah. What do you feel like made the difference for you between like climbing versus all the

00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:24,400
other sports that you didn't have the passion for?

00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,920
I think I enjoy doing all the other sports, but like when you think about like training,

00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,800
I never enjoyed those moments.

00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,960
It's always very boring and just exhausting.

00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,920
But in climbing, I think I enjoy every single aspect of it.

00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:44,880
Like even the training bit is just as enjoying as the actual climbing.

00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,120
And there's just so much to it as well.

00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:52,000
Like there's the outdoor climbing, indoors, even just within outdoor climbing,

00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,440
there's so many different styles.

00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,160
It just feels like I never get sick of it and there's always something new to learn

00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,480
and something new to explore, which is very exciting.

00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,840
Yeah. I wouldn't say a lot of people say they like the training part of climbing.

00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:16,960
By training, does that mean to you just like strength training or also do you count like drills and stuff like that?

00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,160
I would count like drills and stuff as training as well.

00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,080
Like to me, training is when you have an intention for your climbing.

00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,880
So even if I'm just going for climbing session, I consider it as training as well, as long as

00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,680
the mindset for the day was I'm going to get in there and get better.

00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,000
To me, that is training already.

00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,680
But of course, there's also like the physical training.

00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,520
Like I call it conditioning all the time.

00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:48,320
So I just, if you just do weight or like fingerboarding or other exercises, I'll call that conditioning.

00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,280
But no, to me, training is anything climbing related always.

00:03:53,280 --> 00:04:01,600
And so with all your training, did you encounter any injuries while you were going through your progression so quickly?

00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,040
I actually did get injured like very early on.

00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:12,160
So around like three months in, my fingers starting swelling up and they were like so painful.

00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,840
I think this was like, this is something like most beginners go through.

00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,160
They just get into it too quickly.

00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:24,560
I think especially for like most people, even people like coach, like if they have a sports background,

00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,800
it's quite easy for the body to adapt to the climate.

00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:35,360
But then the tendons aren't ready yet, even if like the rest of their body are like physically, they're very strong.

00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,400
But then tendons just take a longer time to develop.

00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,560
And I think I had like that same problem.

00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,320
And then, oh, my fingers started hurting so bad.

00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,520
I couldn't climb.

00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,600
Like I think I got injured around three months.

00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,720
Like I suffered on for another three and I was like, it's time to take a break.

00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,080
And that took like three months.

00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,240
It's time to take a break and I took like a three months break and then go back into it.

00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,400
Oh, that's a pretty long break.

00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:09,840
I took a break and like I still climbed, but I was very controlled about my climbing.

00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:16,240
So no crimps at all on the really open-handed climbing and like nothing too powerful.

00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,480
And then I was like doing my finger rehab, nod stop.

00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,420
Yeah.

00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:28,340
So it wasn't no climbing at all, but it was very controlled climbing.

00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:29,800
Okay.

00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:35,700
But you never, was it like a poly injury or did you, was it just like synobitis?

00:05:35,700 --> 00:05:37,540
I think it's inflammation in the joints.

00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:41,380
It wasn't a fully rupture, anything like that.

00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:43,380
But all the joints were just very painful.

00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:45,140
I couldn't even sleep a lot of times.

00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:49,540
So like I wake up with like tears in my eyes with my joints hurting like a bit too bad.

00:05:50,260 --> 00:05:51,540
Yeah, I was pretty glad.

00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:52,900
Oh my gosh.

00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:53,220
Okay.

00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:54,180
That's pretty extreme.

00:05:54,740 --> 00:05:59,220
I've definitely had like joint pain, but not to the point where I couldn't sleep from it.

00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:00,980
So, huh.

00:06:00,980 --> 00:06:01,380
Yeah.

00:06:01,380 --> 00:06:02,900
I'm not sure what that is.

00:06:02,900 --> 00:06:10,820
So other than that finger pain, injury, swelling, no other injuries?

00:06:11,780 --> 00:06:12,280
No.

00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:13,940
Oh, wow.

00:06:13,940 --> 00:06:14,440
Okay.

00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:19,300
I guess maybe like from your sports background, you kind of knew how to

00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,260
manage the other parts of your body so that you didn't get injured.

00:06:23,140 --> 00:06:28,900
I think it's weird to think about it, but I think it's actually a good thing to get injured so early

00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:34,580
on into my climbing just because now that I've gotten injured, I know how to prevent it.

00:06:34,580 --> 00:06:39,620
Or at least I'll find ways to prevent it to the best of my abilities.

00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:43,380
Just because I know what you're missing out when you stop climbing.

00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:47,220
It really sucks when you go into climbing gym while your friends are trying hard and just like

00:06:47,220 --> 00:06:50,260
the other side, no, swing around and jog.

00:06:50,260 --> 00:06:51,780
You can't really do much.

00:06:51,780 --> 00:06:52,820
Can't try hard.

00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:54,820
Yeah.

00:06:54,820 --> 00:07:00,820
So I was a lot more careful whenever I feel like a bit of a tweak on anything.

00:07:01,540 --> 00:07:03,380
And I would just slow it down and everything.

00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:04,660
Okay.

00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:05,140
That's good.

00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:10,660
I think, I mean, I think even a lot of people who have gotten injured before struggle with

00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:16,340
not getting injured again, just because I don't know, excitement of the moment.

00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:21,300
Not something I've dealt with too much, but, and I guess you haven't either.

00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:25,220
So I'll have to ask someone who has gotten injured a bunch.

00:07:25,220 --> 00:07:29,300
So climbing scene in, you're in Hong Kong, right?

00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:30,820
Yep.

00:07:30,820 --> 00:07:31,300
Okay.

00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:33,620
So yeah, what's the climbing scene like there?

00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:36,980
I don't think we hear too much about it.

00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:44,260
I think it's not to, it's not like very represented as a country and like

00:07:44,260 --> 00:07:47,060
the world cups or there's not many videos about it.

00:07:47,060 --> 00:07:50,020
So can you kind of give us an idea of what it's like?

00:07:51,140 --> 00:07:56,580
So it's not the biggest of climbing scenes, but it's definitely a growing sport in Hong Kong.

00:07:57,140 --> 00:08:00,820
There's been over like 15 gyms opening in the past year or two.

00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:05,540
And they're around 30 ish gyms in Hong Kong at the moment.

00:08:06,340 --> 00:08:07,940
And it's awesome.

00:08:07,940 --> 00:08:10,340
Now there aren't too many people climbing.

00:08:10,340 --> 00:08:12,820
I love beginners, but everyone's climbing.

00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:16,020
Beginners, but everyone who's in it are really passionate.

00:08:16,020 --> 00:08:17,700
The other scenes is really good as well.

00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:24,020
There's a lot of boulders, like there are only like a few people who do developing.

00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:29,140
So not too many, but definitely more than enough for most people.

00:08:30,260 --> 00:08:33,140
It's a cool place to do outdoor climbing just because

00:08:33,860 --> 00:08:37,300
if you do sport climbing here, there are cracks or you can have like the city as

00:08:37,300 --> 00:08:42,020
there's got in the background, which is like really cool thing.

00:08:42,020 --> 00:08:45,940
You know, the whole city as the backdrop, you would never get that anywhere else.

00:08:45,940 --> 00:08:46,420
I don't think.

00:08:47,620 --> 00:08:50,100
And it's really close by to the city as well because

00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:53,700
Hong Kong's nature is very immersed into the city, I guess.

00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:58,980
Like there'll be mountains and buildings right next to each other all the time.

00:08:58,980 --> 00:09:02,340
And yeah, it's a great place to climb, I think.

00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:03,860
Yeah, that's pretty cool.

00:09:04,820 --> 00:09:08,260
Is it more bouldering or lead climbing?

00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:10,180
There's a bit of both.

00:09:10,180 --> 00:09:12,180
It's like pretty even split.

00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:17,700
I think personally I've done more bouldering than sport climbing, but I like both.

00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:19,700
You don't, do you have a preference?

00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,500
I feel like you show a lot of bouldering, but I'm not sure if that's just because

00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:24,900
it's like easier or because you prefer it.

00:09:24,900 --> 00:09:29,700
I think it was just easier to start doing when I began climbing.

00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:34,020
Experience in Hong Kong doesn't have any lead gyms or anything like that.

00:09:34,020 --> 00:09:38,100
I just thought I wouldn't divert my focus too much.

00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:41,620
I just want to dig into one side of things and get better at it.

00:09:42,660 --> 00:09:44,740
I think at first I was really scared of sport climbing.

00:09:44,740 --> 00:09:49,860
Really like leading and stuff was like quite scary to me, but I put some time into like

00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:51,380
getting more comfortable with it.

00:09:51,380 --> 00:09:56,020
And I actually really enjoy it for the past two years.

00:09:56,020 --> 00:10:02,740
Like I don't do that often, but one day I'll have a great time just having that time to do it.

00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:03,380
Yeah.

00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:06,420
You think you're going to get more into it one day or you're going to stay?

00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:08,180
Yeah, I think so.

00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:12,660
I think so, especially like the outdoor stuff in Hong Kong that I want to do.

00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:16,980
Like whatever I want to do next is probably going to be sport climbing and not bouldering.

00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:20,100
You want to get that city backdrop in your photo.

00:10:21,140 --> 00:10:21,940
I get it.

00:10:21,940 --> 00:10:22,440
Yeah.

00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:23,940
All right.

00:10:23,940 --> 00:10:31,300
So speaking of the climbing scene in Hong Kong, let's get into the story of your dream

00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:32,820
that you shared in your video.

00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:38,340
So yeah, for those who haven't watched the video yet, I'll link it in the description

00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:39,620
or the show notes first.

00:10:39,620 --> 00:10:45,700
So pause it, watch or pause this, watch that video, then come back so you know the full story.

00:10:46,740 --> 00:10:53,140
So can you give a brief overview of what your goal was and what you did to try and accomplish it?

00:10:54,180 --> 00:11:00,260
So my goal was to get on to the national team for Hong Kong and maybe compete for the

00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:01,460
World Championships.

00:11:01,460 --> 00:11:11,380
To train for it, I trained not non-stop, but I used six months to have a really detailed

00:11:11,380 --> 00:11:16,740
training plan, really stuck to it and then try my best to get on to the team at the end

00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:19,780
of the six months, which we had like the national team selection.

00:11:19,780 --> 00:11:22,900
That was the ball event and the league events.

00:11:23,620 --> 00:11:26,100
I did six days of training a week.

00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,100
Of course, there were rest days.

00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:34,340
And I had maybe five, five of those six days, I would have like double sessions.

00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:37,460
And it was all like really detailed and planned out.

00:11:37,460 --> 00:11:42,020
It wasn't just going in like, oh, I'll climb as much as I can.

00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:44,740
But everything was like planned out.

00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:46,980
I had an intention for all my sessions.

00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:50,900
I was talking to like some coaching friends who helped me out as well.

00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:55,060
So first of all, you said six days a week.

00:11:55,060 --> 00:12:00,180
And you said that you have rest days, but there are only seven days a week.

00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:02,100
So how do you have rest days?

00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:06,660
So I rested on like the seventh day, which I coach in the gym.

00:12:07,460 --> 00:12:11,780
Some might not consider that as a resting, but yeah, I spend every day in the gym.

00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:15,060
So I was doing like my training as like periods.

00:12:15,060 --> 00:12:22,180
So every like two months, I will have like a month break and, you know, take a

00:12:22,180 --> 00:12:26,900
few more days off just because the periodization of training and stuff.

00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:32,340
But other than that, yeah, it was like once a week, I'll have rest day.

00:12:33,220 --> 00:12:33,700
Yikes.

00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:34,340
Okay.

00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:40,100
Can you explain the periodization of training stuff for people who may not be aware?

00:12:41,860 --> 00:12:47,780
So like for different focuses, I call them.

00:12:47,780 --> 00:12:53,780
Uh, let's say if I have like really intense power phase at first, for me, it lasted

00:12:53,780 --> 00:12:56,340
around eight weeks to 10 weeks.

00:12:57,380 --> 00:13:00,740
I gotta look back to my notes to see what I actually did.

00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:09,540
But, uh, I think for like a training period around 10, 12 weeks or eight weeks,

00:13:09,620 --> 00:13:13,300
it's like, depending on person and what you're training, like the training

00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:19,460
numbers sort of plateaus little, and then it's a good time to switch the stimulus

00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:24,500
and train something else, at least from my research as what works.

00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:28,100
And then it's good to switch things up every now and then, not doing the same

00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:31,780
thing all the time because your body get used to the exercises as well as like

00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:37,460
training load, so you don't gain too much more if you do the same thing.

00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:42,100
And since I've like, I see myself doing a lot of training, I'm not doing

00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,140
like, I see myself as someone who has like a lot of weaknesses.

00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:52,500
So I'll be trying different stuff and then training different aspects of my

00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:52,900
climbing.

00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:58,580
And you said that you had some friends who were coaches, but you didn't have

00:13:58,580 --> 00:14:00,580
like a dedicated coach for your program?

00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:05,940
No, so I have some friends who like work as coaches and then I've like

00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:11,300
consultated with them and then I show them my training plan, they give me

00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:16,500
some pointers and stuff, but no, I don't have a dedicated coach because I

00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:20,820
really would like one, but then Hong Kong doesn't have any coaches of that

00:14:20,820 --> 00:14:21,300
sort.

00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:26,340
And on like my part-time in climbing, it was like quite difficult to get the

00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:32,180
kind of coach I want as well because for comp climbing, it's just so specific

00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:39,300
and you got to have like really good knowledge, I think, to excel in comp

00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:43,220
climbing, especially for the level I wanted to get at, I think.

00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:46,980
I know, so I didn't have a coach.

00:14:46,980 --> 00:14:51,220
Well, it is super impressive that you managed to write up your own training

00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:54,420
plan and that it worked out pretty well for you.

00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:58,020
This is okay.

00:14:58,020 --> 00:15:03,380
Well, I guess kind of something I'm personally wondering because this is my

00:15:03,380 --> 00:15:12,100
first time doing like a strength training session and I am so like I've

00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:13,940
never worked out before in my life.

00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:21,860
So this is like so new to me and I did like a workout for the first time and

00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:27,140
I was so sore and I am still so sore like almost every single time I do it.

00:15:27,140 --> 00:15:32,340
And so I have to take like about two or three rest days before I start to feel

00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:33,220
not sore again.

00:15:33,780 --> 00:15:35,140
Does that not happen to you?

00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:40,500
No, I definitely feel sore, but I don't know.

00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:41,140
Climb through it.

00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:47,300
I climbed through it, but then I think that would waste to prevent getting

00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:48,660
completely destroyed every time.

00:15:49,220 --> 00:15:54,820
Like, because I don't see my training as like a very short term thing, right?

00:15:54,820 --> 00:16:00,260
Because I know if I destroy myself on day one, it will affect my training for the rest.

00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:06,980
I'm aiming for the long term when I train or like still when I train or when I climb.

00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:11,460
Let's say like an easy example would be like skin, right?

00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,260
If you go so hard on day one that you're going through your tips and you're

00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:21,700
bleeding, that's no way you can try hard again the next few days, at least for

00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:22,980
like three, four days for me.

00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:24,100
Right.

00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,100
Unless you tape and stuff and you don't climb as well.

00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,500
And to me, that's the same with physical training.

00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:35,140
If you completely destroy yourself on day one, the rest of your week is all messed up.

00:16:35,140 --> 00:16:37,940
So I rather have a lighter session.

00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:44,420
Then I can continue training for the next few days and do it consistently.

00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:51,380
Because I find consistency is way more important than just having one super

00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:57,380
intense session or like even if you talk about like training periods, if I go super

00:16:57,380 --> 00:17:02,740
hard for a week and then I gotta, the motivation goes lower because I'm so sore and I'm so

00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:06,260
destroyed, there's no point to it if you can't stick to it.

00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:15,380
So personally, I'd rather have the consistency than like an insane intensity or at

00:17:15,380 --> 00:17:18,740
least like to the level where it's manageable personally.

00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:19,300
Yeah.

00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:20,900
Yeah.

00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:24,900
And I mean, you said that you were going, I mean, you were going almost every day.

00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:35,300
Was there a way for you to, I guess, like train different parts of your body so that

00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:42,100
you weren't completely destroyed and constantly in like a state of being under recovered?

00:17:42,820 --> 00:17:46,420
Well, so just like people who would do like a normal gym session, right?

00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:51,940
They'll split their workouts into like, Oh, upper body, push day, back, push day and pull

00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:55,780
day, like, and then you do a leg day and then you have rest day core.

00:17:56,260 --> 00:18:00,740
Like you can do it in splits like that, but for me, the climbing will slip into different

00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:02,660
aspects of climbing.

00:18:02,660 --> 00:18:10,580
So let's say I do like a three day split usually, day one will be power and the highest

00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:11,540
intensity stuff.

00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:18,580
So right after rest day, I'll again see the most high intensity workouts and climbs on

00:18:18,580 --> 00:18:19,140
that day.

00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:22,420
Uh, day two, I'll focus more on volume.

00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:27,380
So I'll climb a lot more at a lower intensity, but working on other skills.

00:18:27,380 --> 00:18:27,780
Right?

00:18:28,020 --> 00:18:31,060
So day one is a lot about pushing the limit.

00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:33,540
Day two is about getting fitter.

00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:43,140
And for my day three, I usually do either jumps or volume or I'll do slabs or maybe

00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:44,180
some circuits.

00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:46,660
So day one is the most intense.

00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:53,860
Day two volume, day three is technique work or just some sort of resting for the body,

00:18:53,860 --> 00:18:55,700
but you're still learning and technique stuff.

00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:56,900
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:03,860
Um, and so, yeah, that's sort of sounds a little bit like your, um, personal training

00:19:03,860 --> 00:19:04,500
plan.

00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:08,660
Um, I know a lot of people ask about your personal training plan.

00:19:08,660 --> 00:19:13,860
Um, but you don't, you mentioned that you don't exactly give that out too much.

00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:15,620
Um, do you want to explain that?

00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:24,180
Yeah, just because my, like my own training plan, I think is, was very specific to me

00:19:24,180 --> 00:19:26,980
and tailor made to my own weaknesses.

00:19:26,980 --> 00:19:28,260
So it's very nice.

00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:29,540
I love you are interested.

00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:30,580
I really appreciate it.

00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:33,300
And like, I guess a lot of people want to get better together.

00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:34,900
Um, I love it.

00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:38,900
I love the excitement people have for their own progression and stuff.

00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:42,660
But yeah, I don't really give out my own training plans.

00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:48,340
Like I thought about including that in the video, but I only include the major principles

00:19:48,340 --> 00:19:48,980
I had.

00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:54,100
And I think those alone, if people were to make their own training plans, I think

00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:58,660
their own training plans, I would just go according to those principles.

00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:06,980
And the details I had don't matter quite as much to me because the plan was made for

00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:07,700
my weaknesses.

00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:16,820
Hey, cause I have those specific training workouts because I'm, let's say my fingers

00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:19,380
are weak for like a lot.

00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:23,380
When I do like longer duration hangs, I can have a really high load.

00:20:23,380 --> 00:20:30,260
If I do seven second intensity hang rather, but then I have a really quick drop off

00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:31,620
after 10 seconds.

00:20:31,620 --> 00:20:36,660
So to me, it was more important to train a longer hang rather than a very short intense

00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:37,160
one.

00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:40,580
Just like small specifics like that.

00:20:40,580 --> 00:20:42,340
I don't think it applies to everyone.

00:20:42,340 --> 00:20:46,740
And if I don't know the other person's training background or like what level

00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:53,060
they are at, as well as their own style, I hesitate to give out anything that might

00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:57,620
get them injured or maybe just isn't the most efficient way.

00:20:57,620 --> 00:20:58,420
Yeah.

00:20:58,420 --> 00:20:59,780
Yeah, that definitely makes sense.

00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:05,700
I think it's very, training can be like very personal or not can be.

00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:06,740
I think it like should be.

00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:10,100
So yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:10,500
Okay.

00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:18,500
So going back to the actual competition and your team trials, walk me through the

00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,540
process of signing up for team selection.

00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:24,260
Was it just as simple as signing up for that one?

00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,660
I guess like trial competition, or do you have to like perform at a certain level at

00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:32,420
previous competitions going into it?

00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:33,780
What's it like there?

00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:38,340
So in Hong Kong, there isn't much of a barrier to entry.

00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:41,700
Like if you want to trial for the team, you just have to sign up.

00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:48,340
They do require for the boys team, I think they require like you to climb outdoor V7

00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:49,860
and 7C, I think.

00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:55,140
They make you write it on the paper, but I don't think that means much to be honest.

00:21:55,140 --> 00:21:57,460
A lot of people just write it anyways.

00:21:57,460 --> 00:21:58,420
Yeah.

00:21:58,420 --> 00:22:02,100
Yeah, they start, but then yeah, no, there's no barriers to entry.

00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,260
You can just sign up and then you can do the comps.

00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:04,740
Yeah.

00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:10,500
I guess is it maybe they just haven't like developed a super like rigorous program for

00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:12,500
it, or is there just not as much interest?

00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:14,500
I think that's both.

00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:16,740
Like there's definitely quite a bit of interest.

00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:18,180
Quite a lot of people tried out.

00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:26,820
But then the system, like the sport climbing organization stuff, there just isn't too much

00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:27,380
stuff.

00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:31,860
Like people who do it are like quite dedicated to help out, but there isn't too much of a

00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:33,700
support or anything like that.

00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,140
So there's a lot of resources and all that.

00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:42,020
So yeah, they're just the comp and that's it.

00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:46,100
And in your video, you showed a lot of boulder preparation.

00:22:46,100 --> 00:22:48,900
You didn't so much show the lead portion of it.

00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,500
What was your lead training like?

00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,820
Like how often did you practice lead climbing?

00:22:56,820 --> 00:23:00,020
And then was it like a combined score at the end?

00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:04,020
So yeah, it was like a combined format.

00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:06,740
They add up the points from two comps.

00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:11,060
So we have the boulder selection first and then a month later, actually more than a month

00:23:11,060 --> 00:23:13,060
later, then we'll have the lead.

00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:18,100
So in my training, like I said, I separated my training into different parts before I had

00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:19,300
different periods.

00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:23,540
So for period one, it was volume based.

00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:29,860
It was very much just trying to get fit, do a lot of reps, but then not too intense.

00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:36,740
Second period is starting to wrap up the intensity because the end of that is the boulder selections.

00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:43,540
For the third period, it's a lot about getting endurance and power endurance.

00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:51,620
So I had around six weeks before the lead selection and that's after the boulder selections.

00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:54,420
I did around three days of lead a week.

00:23:54,420 --> 00:24:00,180
I didn't show that too much in the video just because I thought what I showed was enough

00:24:00,180 --> 00:24:07,140
to show how much work I was doing already and I didn't think that was like, in the videos

00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:09,940
I had of my lead climbing was just really blurry.

00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:14,420
So I didn't include that, but yeah, I did do quite a lot for lead as well.

00:24:14,420 --> 00:24:18,820
That's what made it hurt more, I guess, at the end when I couldn't perform.

00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:24,420
But no, I trained three days lead a week and then I just saw a really good progression

00:24:24,420 --> 00:24:28,340
as well, because as I told you, I'm not really a lead climber.

00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:37,700
But I think I was at the lead gym, I was struggling to climb a 7C to start with, maybe even 7B.

00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:44,340
And then by the end of the six weeks, I was climbing three in a row and that made quite

00:24:44,340 --> 00:24:45,620
a big difference, I think.

00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:52,020
So going into it physically for a lead comp, I thought I was very ready.

00:24:52,020 --> 00:24:53,060
So yeah.

00:24:53,060 --> 00:24:55,540
How did you end up doing in the lead portion?

00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:58,500
Uh, horrendous.

00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:00,820
Absolutely horrendous.

00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:05,060
So for qualification, we had two climbs.

00:25:05,060 --> 00:25:07,380
I did okay on one, I guess.

00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:10,500
Like I managed to try hard and fail because I was pumped.

00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:15,940
But the first one was just the one that hurt the most was the beginning section was just

00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:17,300
a jug hole, I think.

00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,860
It was like very easy climbing.

00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:27,460
But then once you get by the headwall, suddenly it gets quite hard.

00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:33,300
And I had like a small, I remember like distinctly right before the hard section, which the cold

00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:34,660
solid became much worse.

00:25:34,660 --> 00:25:38,820
I had like a small break and was like resting, shaking out.

00:25:38,820 --> 00:25:45,220
And then the first hold I grabbed, my hand just like let go of something.

00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:45,940
I don't know.

00:25:45,940 --> 00:25:47,460
I really don't know what happened.

00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:49,860
I think my whole body was so soft.

00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:53,700
I was like, I just didn't know what happened.

00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:59,780
I was just like peeled off, didn't try hard, came down with like no pump at all.

00:26:00,580 --> 00:26:01,080
Oh.

00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:04,100
Yeah, it was weird.

00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,220
My body just like gave out like somehow.

00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:10,660
Yeah, it was very weird just the moment.

00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:12,580
Wasn't like a slip or anything?

00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:14,660
No, don't think so.

00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:19,220
I think I hit the hole and everything just couldn't engage in the thing.

00:26:21,540 --> 00:26:28,500
Yeah, I think I was laughing when I came down just because it was so, I think it was funny

00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:29,060
in some sense.

00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:32,500
So like I don't know if it's working.

00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:33,620
That's what I have to show.

00:26:35,620 --> 00:26:37,620
But yeah, I think it was more like a painful laugh.

00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:43,380
Yeah, I guess at that point, did you kind of already know that you weren't going to

00:26:43,380 --> 00:26:45,460
make it on the team?

00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:46,820
Yeah, I think so.

00:26:46,820 --> 00:26:51,460
Because I think the score to get into semis was, semis finals was quite high.

00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:59,140
So I knew if I messed up the first one, I had to basically top out the other one,

00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:00,660
which no one has topped yet, I think.

00:27:01,460 --> 00:27:05,780
Or at least I knew it was going to be a lot harder than the easy one.

00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:08,820
So I didn't have much hope.

00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:11,220
Oh, that's a shame.

00:27:11,220 --> 00:27:12,180
Okay.

00:27:14,180 --> 00:27:18,180
And you said that the lead competition was a month after the bouldering one?

00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:19,300
Yep.

00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:21,060
Oh, okay.

00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:28,180
Do you think that is kind of not a great way of going about it?

00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:34,740
Because at like the World Cups and stuff, it's kind of like one day after the other,

00:27:35,460 --> 00:27:35,940
no rest.

00:27:35,940 --> 00:27:41,860
No rest. That's not my choice, right? But I think if you consider yourself as an athlete,

00:27:41,860 --> 00:27:47,380
or like what I admire most about like the boulders I follow or like the climbers I follow,

00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:51,540
is that they can perform at any time, whatever discipline it is.

00:27:51,540 --> 00:27:57,940
So if you're given a plan or given the day to perform, you just do it according to that.

00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:00,580
It's out of my control when the cop is going to be.

00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:05,380
What I can do is prepare for it to the best of my abilities.

00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:12,660
And of course, people complain about the date of climbing being so far apart,

00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:15,620
two disciplines, all that and all that.

00:28:15,620 --> 00:28:20,820
But to me, it's like everyone faces the same circumstances.

00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:22,180
You just try your best.

00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:29,300
Okay. So actually going into the comp, what does your rest sort of look like

00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:30,580
before competition day?

00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:38,020
So I actually start tapering around a week and a half, two weeks out.

00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:42,740
I start lowering the volume a lot. I'll take out a lot of physical conditioning.

00:28:42,740 --> 00:28:48,100
I'll just leave in the most intense ones to keep the intensity at a really high level,

00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:50,180
but then take out a lot of volume.

00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:55,700
So I'll do maybe half the sets of certain things, some things I'll completely take out.

00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,900
Just focus on climbing, have way shorter sessions,

00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:02,180
just my body is sharp in that sense.

00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:05,620
I know how to try hard, but I'm not destroying myself.

00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:12,500
Like really slowly taping my body and be fully ready at the comp.

00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:14,100
And so are you like climbing?

00:29:16,420 --> 00:29:19,620
Do you just like completely stop climbing before the competition?

00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:24,420
I know some people do like a full day of rest or full two days of rest.

00:29:24,420 --> 00:29:28,260
So what I kept in was my maximum days.

00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:34,500
So I kept the max finger boarding at least up to like a week before the comp.

00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:40,900
I kept my max finger boarding and max pull ups and like some swaps and all that.

00:29:41,780 --> 00:29:46,740
But really just do like one or two sets, like really low volume compared to like

00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:47,860
what I was training before.

00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:51,860
Climbing was doing maybe two to three days in general for like the six.

00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:55,300
Just have a lot more rest and then get good sleep and all that.

00:29:55,300 --> 00:30:03,300
And so then during the actual competition, I guess not just at this competition,

00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:06,740
but any other ones that you did for preparation.

00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:12,180
Where are you mentally during the competitions?

00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:17,220
Like, are you freaking out or do you find some way to kind of get yourself under control?

00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:20,340
I was all over the place.

00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:26,580
I haven't had much competition experience before the last season, like this year, really.

00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:31,220
Just because of COVID and Hong Kong has had too many comps.

00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:36,340
I've had some, but there were very few and far between and like the quality of competitions.

00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:37,620
Also like they've had a lot.

00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:42,900
So it was the most packed season I've had ever.

00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:47,620
So I think in the beginning of season, I was like really freaking out.

00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:52,980
I was like, I couldn't climb my best at all and the timing of stuff, warming up and the

00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:56,980
whole process of going to a comp was all a mess.

00:30:56,980 --> 00:31:01,140
But I think by the end of season, I was like, personally, I think the mindset for climbing

00:31:01,140 --> 00:31:01,860
is very different.

00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:06,820
Some people go into it with the mindset of like, I'm going to destroy everybody and extremely

00:31:06,820 --> 00:31:09,540
confident I'm going to top all the balls.

00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:15,940
But for me, it's more, if I enjoy the climb more and think less about it, I'm going to

00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:20,740
enjoy the climb more and think less about the result or like others.

00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:22,980
To me, I perform better.

00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:25,060
Like that's just for me.

00:31:25,060 --> 00:31:31,140
Like I think competition mindset or like just mindset in climbing is very individual.

00:31:31,140 --> 00:31:33,060
It works differently for everybody.

00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:36,420
For me, if I enjoy it, don't think about the result too much.

00:31:36,420 --> 00:31:39,540
I tend to perform the best, which is kind of funny.

00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:41,540
It's like you always want to win in the comp.

00:31:41,540 --> 00:31:45,860
But for me, if I don't think about the win, then I'm not winning and something like that.

00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:48,020
So it's quite funny in that sense.

00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:55,380
Did you manage to get into that just have fun mindset when you were doing the team trials

00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:56,100
or were you-

00:31:56,740 --> 00:32:04,820
Actually, yeah, like the Boulder selections was one of the best comic-comic things I had.

00:32:05,620 --> 00:32:11,060
I think to me, what it means to have a good performance if you try really hard and manage

00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:12,980
to show what you've got, right?

00:32:12,980 --> 00:32:18,900
Like how many boulders are top at the end, to me almost doesn't matter.

00:32:18,900 --> 00:32:19,860
Like of course it does.

00:32:19,860 --> 00:32:26,260
But to me, like a true sign that my training work was I could really try my best on the

00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:26,660
Boulder.

00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:31,460
If my ability isn't there, it isn't there, but I'm there to test myself, right?

00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:35,300
If I can pull my best level out there, that's really good to me.

00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,020
I did have like a slight mistake, which cost me like four or five places.

00:32:40,020 --> 00:32:43,060
But I enjoyed climbing so much and it was so much fun.

00:32:43,060 --> 00:32:43,700
Awesome.

00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:46,820
So what did you end up placing in the end?

00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:50,900
I was 12th at the end, for the combined.

00:32:52,420 --> 00:32:56,580
And then they took eight or nine, I think.

00:32:56,580 --> 00:32:57,060
Yeah.

00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:58,580
Yeah, that's not bad at all.

00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:03,860
Was it just like qualifiers or you were also in semis?

00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:13,780
Semis? So our board selection had no, had only one round of comp.

00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:17,380
So we had one round of comp versus rotation comp.

00:33:17,380 --> 00:33:20,660
We had six boulders, five minutes each.

00:33:20,660 --> 00:33:24,020
And then your result is just based on that.

00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:28,660
The lead, we had qualifiers and then straight to finals.

00:33:29,380 --> 00:33:33,060
So not the most established comp ever.

00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:38,340
But I think the right people got in and the right people ended up representing the team.

00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:41,940
And I think it was right.

00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:47,700
I think if you look at a team, I'm not at the level where I need to be.

00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:51,780
And the people who are the best are at the top.

00:33:51,780 --> 00:33:55,620
So in that sense, I think the comp worked out.

00:33:55,620 --> 00:34:02,180
It's not the most traditional comp and definitely not the most comprehensive stuff.

00:34:02,180 --> 00:34:04,180
But I think it was fine.

00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:06,740
Well, you'll have more chances eventually.

00:34:08,180 --> 00:34:14,180
And so one thing that I think you did make it in for, I'm not entirely sure.

00:34:15,140 --> 00:34:17,780
You do some speed climbing, right?

00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:18,900
Yeah.

00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:23,780
So maybe in the middle of that six month training block I had, they had a speed team selection.

00:34:24,980 --> 00:34:27,780
And I guess, you know, I was doing so much physical training.

00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:30,740
I was, my body was quite ready for that.

00:34:30,740 --> 00:34:37,540
And the speed training, I'm not sure how it works in our teams, but in Hong Kong, our team had like

00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:43,780
a certain portion of the selection to be like just physical training.

00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:48,980
I guess the physical elements of speed climbing is very important as well.

00:34:48,980 --> 00:34:55,540
So doing weight to like testing, I guess, just lifting weights and stuff was like part of the test.

00:34:55,540 --> 00:34:56,820
And that did quite well on that.

00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:02,820
I guess it's a combination of that and that the coaches saw that I had hope, maybe.

00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:05,380
The potentials in these speed climbing.

00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:09,780
So they let me into the team and yeah, now I'm on the team for speed climbing.

00:35:10,580 --> 00:35:11,300
Oh, okay.

00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,380
So, well, congrats.

00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,500
What do you do for that?

00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:19,460
Like, do you travel around as part of the national team?

00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:22,100
No.

00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:31,220
So supposedly we're supposed to have a comp in September where we have Asian champs or Asian comp.

00:35:31,220 --> 00:35:37,300
One of the big comps, it would be like my first IFSC comp, but then there's something went wrong

00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:40,740
with the sign-up process within the team, some bureaucracy stuff.

00:35:41,620 --> 00:35:42,820
So now we're not going.

00:35:42,820 --> 00:35:43,220
Oh no.

00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:47,300
But in the future, I'll be going to some comps for sure.

00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:48,760
Okay.

00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,840
Just like within Asia or like world level?

00:35:52,840 --> 00:36:01,240
I think it will depend on my ranking in the next team trials or that they will have like periods

00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:05,320
where they test you and they just change your ranking every now and then.

00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,840
They have like a, they will have like a simulate comp within the team,

00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,640
just to determine the ranking and who goes to comps.

00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,320
So that would be horrible.

00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,880
But I just want to say like, so technically if my goal was getting national team,

00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:24,760
I sort of made it, but it's different because the Boulder team,

00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,800
Boulder league team is separate to the speed team.

00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,280
And my goal, when I sent out my goal, it wasn't getting to speed at all.

00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,560
That wasn't even an option.

00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:42,920
So I don't think I counted that as, no, making my dream happen.

00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,120
It's just the circumstances just happens to fall that way.

00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,960
And if it's not something I really worked hard for, I don't think it matters quite as much.

00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,120
At least to me, that's not what my end goal was.

00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,400
It just so happens.

00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,600
I was, I almost considered it was just luck, right?

00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,360
I lost to me.

00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,600
So I wasn't, I didn't count that as, you know, making my goal happen.

00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,480
Yeah, I think that makes sense.

00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,800
I mean, it's not really the thing you set out to do, but it happened anyway.

00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,760
But I mean, I wouldn't say it's fully luck.

00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:28,840
Like they, I mean, they must have seen your climbing and decided that you would at least

00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,240
be decent enough for the speed team.

00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:33,560
It's not like they take anyone.

00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:34,920
Yeah.

00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,560
I guess like I was good enough to do it just because of my training in

00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,960
bordering and lead just because I was doing so much training and like my style as well

00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,360
is quite dynamic and explosive.

00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,000
So I guess that fit into it as well.

00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,480
But yeah, I don't know.

00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,760
I'll try hard on it.

00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,200
I really appreciate the opportunity.

00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,000
We've been trying our best to train, but that's all a mess as well.

00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,160
Um, yeah.

00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:01,640
How so?

00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,520
We only have like a day training a week.

00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,760
Like they've only assigned one day of training and there aren't any indoor

00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
walls to do speed climbing in Holocaust.

00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,640
And to use the auto belay system, you got to have like teams approval and using

00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,960
a lot of timers and stuff, unless they have like the big sign off from the team.

00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,160
You can't use any of this stuff.

00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:26,040
You can do like your top row with a mate to pull you up the speed wall, but

00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,720
it just doesn't work if you want to have proper training session.

00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,440
So it's been a bit annoying, but hopefully that will improve soon.

00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,240
I've never considered top roping a speed route.

00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:43,240
I feel like that could almost be more dangerous, a lot more dangerous.

00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:43,720
It works.

00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,240
It's just very slow and.

00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,440
It works when you're really figuring the beginning moves, but if you get

00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,000
getting anywhere to like, if you want to improve properly, it's not the way.

00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,160
Yeah, makes sense.

00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,080
Okay.

00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:09,240
So at the end of your video, you kind of made it sound like you were giving up

00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:15,880
on your dream and you kind of made it sound like you think that it's actually

00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,880
kind of a crazy dream to begin with.

00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:26,680
But I think from a viewer's perspective, it looks like you got really far and

00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,320
you're still pretty young and there's selection again in two years.

00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,760
So are you still feeling that way?

00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,680
Like you still feel like it's, it was just a dream and that it's not

00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,120
actually something you can accomplish.

00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:47,480
Well, the whole thing about the training for six months, why, why the reason why

00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:53,000
it was different from what I had done before, like I was training a lot already.

00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:53,240
Right?

00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,520
Like I said, like a few years ago, I was like climbing quite hard.

00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,520
I was quite outdoors and I really tried my best to train for that.

00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:07,000
But then it was different because it was not a consistent training and I had like

00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:13,320
school in between, so there was quite a lot of distractions, but like for the

00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:18,440
past few months, like not all of the last six months, but like for the majority of

00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:25,000
majority of it, I finished uni and I really dedicated a lot of time to climbing

00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,960
and training and I think for the level I want to be at, especially people at the

00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,320
top, they're definitely training full time.

00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,040
Especially if I'm like so far behind, I started so much laces and most people

00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:44,440
who are at that level, I think it'll be, it is quite crazy to think that I can

00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,960
catch up, I think.

00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:52,840
Like I've done quite well, I think in terms of how far I've come and how

00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,880
my goal I am, but it's just that I'm not sure.

00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,600
I've been trying to figure it out for the past few months.

00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
It's just that I've been working more now.

00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:09,320
I've been had quite the same time to train, whereas like the pros, right?

00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,680
They're amping up their training because of Olympics and all the rounds of

00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:22,200
punks and especially if the team trials in two years, I just don't know if it's

00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,120
realistic to go for it again.

00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,040
In my head, I definitely want to, but I don't know, I've been struggling a bit

00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,320
in the head to think that I could reach it.

00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:35,240
Yeah.

00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:36,040
Yeah.

00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,160
By work, do you just mean the coaching stuff or do you also have like a different-

00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,240
So I do coaching at the moment, that's like my main income.

00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,880
That's doing okay at the moment.

00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:54,440
I'm not sure if it's going to be quite enough for the kind of income I want to

00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,240
have, but for now it's okay.

00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:02,920
So I can still continue training if I choose to, but I haven't been training

00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,040
much since the team selections.

00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,720
I've been climbing a lot still, but definitely nice focus and intentional

00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:12,520
with my climbing.

00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,280
Well, that's a bit of a shame to hear.

00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:14,920
We'll see.

00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:22,760
I think whatever nationals coming up in September, it'll be the first, like,

00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,200
it'll be like one of the big comps we have of the season.

00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:27,640
I'll see how I do that.

00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,800
I've been having like different first two climbing than what I had before.

00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:33,960
So we'll see.

00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,120
I think it would determine how much I enjoy the comp really.

00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,440
If I can really enjoy or have fun.

00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,960
I think why not go for it again closer than ever.

00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,720
But I think after all that, like a small break was necessary for me.

00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:56,680
I feel like this might not be the same for everyone because to be honest, like

00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,920
training for 6 months isn't that much, right?

00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,080
People have been dedicated their lives to it.

00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,720
Like it's not easy to think that just from six months of training, I can

00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:10,120
catch up really, but I just, to me, I just want to see how close I can get.

00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,000
And I really enjoyed pursuing it and everything about it was really enjoyable.

00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Of course, the result sucked at the end, but, um, I think I proved to myself that

00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,480
I have a fighting chance if I have the time.

00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,160
So it depends in the season.

00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:37,160
If I have the time, so it depends in the next few months, where I can figure out

00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,200
a schedule that works for all the training to fit in.

00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,000
Um, I'm going to try my best to find a coach as well.

00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,000
Um, I like an afforded one with my own coaching.

00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,800
So it's, it's a funny concept that I'm a coach, but then I'm looking for a coach as well.

00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:59,160
But I think everyone needs one, just someone to be more objective and someone

00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,400
who can judge your climbing from like a different point of view.

00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:07,880
You're always a bit subjective of yourself and you're not seeing everything when you're

00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,640
looking at your own training plans.

00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:15,640
And to me, like for the next level of climbing, I really would like someone to help me out.

00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:16,920
Yeah.

00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:17,800
Yeah, definitely.

00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,040
Um, but yeah, I mean, you still have time.

00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,560
You're still pretty young.

00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,640
Um, it's not like you're actively getting worse at climbing, so

00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:34,200
still doing pretty well and you can maybe just take it a little bit slower and still

00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:35,800
improve and get to that level.

00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,920
I think I've been climbing really well recently.

00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,240
It's quite nice, I guess, on a training game from those six months is still here.

00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:43,880
Yeah, exactly.

00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:50,760
So I've been doing less, but I'm climbing quite a bit harder than a few months ago, actually.

00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,720
It's quite nice to, you know, feel stuff.

00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:01,240
Um, I also went to Japan after the team selections and it was cool to see how a lot of like strong

00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:02,120
level training there.

00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:08,920
And I've been to UK where physical training is a massive part of the training.

00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,600
You know, doing four or five days of conditional week is very common for most people.

00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:20,760
Even at the non-pro level, you know, it's just a massive part of climbing there.

00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,160
But in Japan, it's very different.

00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,240
It's a completely different approach.

00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:31,240
They have much more climbing sessions and fairly little physical training.

00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:37,960
If they have any, it'll be like stuff with very light weights just to like keep the body healthy.

00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,000
But it'll be very little training compared to anywhere else in the world.

00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,720
So in my head, I'm doing enough.

00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,240
I'm doing my climbing in the Japanese way of it, you know, just think about climbing,

00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:56,840
just the climbing portion, a lot more work on your technique and your movements have

00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,040
a lot more focus for that.

00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,080
It's not like I did them before, but I think it's just allowing it more time,

00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,560
giving it more space to develop.

00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,960
That's what works for me at the moment.

00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,560
I'm not sure if some people will call this lazy.

00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:18,200
I'm still climbing like five days a week, I guess, but it's just different.

00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,440
I think I'm going into it with different mindset.

00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,360
Less pressure as well, enjoy the climbing more.

00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,400
Yeah, that's what I've been doing for the past few months after the selections.

00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,840
No, I mean, that totally makes sense.

00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,240
I think that's what most people do.

00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:38,600
But yeah, I mean, you said that you're feeling better and you're climbing now than even before.

00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,400
And before you weren't that far off, only four places, four places.

00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,920
Yeah, only four places off.

00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,960
So you might still have a good shot.

00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:54,120
You mentioned that there was still quite a difference between, I guess, like a normal

00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,640
climber where you are now and like a pro climber.

00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,000
What do you think that difference is and what more do you think you need to get there?

00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,560
Well, in terms of level, where the pro are, are definitely a step up from where I am.

00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,280
I think if you just look at like the level, if you go to a commercial gym,

00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,400
the pro climbers will flash everything, basically.

00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,480
Even on the hardest grade, it will take them a handful of temps and that's it.

00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,880
For me, I still, it doesn't matter where I go, like especially Japan, I'll struggle a lot more there.

00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:30,380
Sure.

00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:36,120
But yeah, if you just look at that, I'm not at a level where I need to be yet.

00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,280
And I'm making a lot of like amateur mistakes on the wall still.

00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:47,880
Like, and these mistakes might not look apparent to a lot of people, but when I hesitate on the wall,

00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,280
like even when I video myself, I, I, I, it doesn't show on the video.

00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:56,840
But I know in my mind, I hesitated, I thought too much of that, maybe I'm not wasting energy.

00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:03,720
Just like really small details is what's separating me from where I want to be, I think.

00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:09,800
Also like mindset is the main thing, I reckon.

00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:16,680
Just being able to like perform even when you're really scared on the pressure, you know,

00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:22,360
still extracting a lot from your best climbing when you're not feeling your best.

00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:24,840
That's what separates the best.

00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,080
When I'm stressed and I'm stressed out in a climb, when I'm scared and calm,

00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:35,240
I climb horrible, but let's say I would drop to like a 60% level,

00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:38,840
whereas maybe for the pros, they would drop 5%, 10%.

00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,000
It's still a really high level.

00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,200
And I think that's the main difference being how much you can extract from your best climbing

00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:48,440
when you have to perform.

00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:49,880
It's the best.

00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:50,440
Yeah.

00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:56,840
I think if just talking career climbing level, I'm, I'm not saying that I'm not going to be

00:48:56,840 --> 00:49:01,480
just talking career climbing level, I'm kind of close.

00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,360
It's hard to tell because comp climbing, you don't have a grade to it.

00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,560
And if you just look at numbers, V11s, nothing compared to what the pros are climbing.

00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,120
But personally, I'm quite helpful, you know?

00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,000
I've been trying to hide outdoors for like a few years now.

00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,560
And just because there isn't anything that I hide in Hong Kong, it's hard to project.

00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:31,720
So if you just look at numbers, it's hard to tell, but it's, I'm lucky that a lot of my friends who

00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:35,880
compete in the World Cups from Hong Kong are right next to me all the time.

00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:42,360
And just from climbing with them regularly, I can sort of gauge my level.

00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:44,600
Yeah.

00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,720
So I'm lucky in that sense, but no, I'm not where I want to be, but it might be possible.

00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:58,840
Are you doing any sort of, I guess like mindset work to help deal with the stress in competition?

00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,640
I haven't done any like specific drills or anything, but just giving it more thought

00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,720
after comp was very important to me.

00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:16,920
So even the process of making that video was, just to put it out there was a big thing for me.

00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:23,160
Because you don't see a lot of videos where, you know, people fail at the end.

00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:29,800
The perfect story would be, I messed up, I tried hard, and then two years later, you know,

00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,880
I went, that would be the perfect story, right?

00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:41,880
But I think I decided to put that video out there just because I don't think that was the end of story.

00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,120
Like, of course it would take me some time to figure out.

00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:49,720
As I've said, I have some doubts about where I'm going, how I'm going to go about my dream.

00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:56,040
But I think it's part of the process and everything I did.

00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,160
Like, I just want to put it out there to see.

00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:05,560
Um, I would like it to be the perfect story, but it was part of the process.

00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,320
It was what I went through.

00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,520
It was like an experience I had, which I really enjoy.

00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:17,960
Like, if you look at the whole experience, I really enjoy putting my heart into climbing, like 100%.

00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,480
I had very little distractions.

00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:27,240
I did have work, but it was like really lower my working hours, just so I'm focused on comp.

00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,240
Made my parents a bit stressed, but um.

00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,760
But yeah, my parents were kind enough for me to, you know, I told them,

00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,640
just give me a few months.

00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,000
Just really want to go for this, see what I can get.

00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,880
Um, they're nice enough to let me do that.

00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,320
As long as I can support myself to do fine with it.

00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,280
So yeah, just enjoy my own climbing for now.

00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:53,340
We'll see.

00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,840
Yeah, you definitely seem to do a lot of reflection after the fact.

00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:06,760
Um, I think one question that you had asked was why do you climb?

00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,240
Um, do you have an answer for that?

00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:17,160
I think when I set up my goal of getting the team, I did think about that.

00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,800
I think I had a specific goal, right?

00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,280
Just like get on the team, go to the World Cup, dominate.

00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:22,780
Wow.

00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,160
But I didn't fully understand why.

00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,920
I don't think I even thought about it.

00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:34,680
And what you're looking at, let's say right up, we're recording this right

00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:35,720
after World Championships, right?

00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,080
After the first round of Olympic qualifiers.

00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:47,000
And most things you read on the athletes Instagram post for everyone who has failed

00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,680
or even people who have succeeded.

00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,320
It's not about how strong they think they are.

00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,640
It's not about how much I'm pulling on my void or plums.

00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,920
It's all about the mindset and how they're dealing with the pressure.

00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,880
And I think knowing why you climb is a very important thing.

00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,240
And why compete, right?

00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:12,440
Like I can, a lot of people just enjoy climbing, right?

00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,520
Just if you go outdoors, you can still have fun with friends.

00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,080
You can still try hard.

00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,280
You can still put a hundred percent to your climbing with no time pressure.

00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:30,120
To me, why I climb was because climbing so diverse and you need to be so

00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:31,720
skillful in so many things.

00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,680
And I find that to be fascinating to be a messed up every style.

00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,240
I find that to be like so insanely fine.

00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,240
You got to be so adaptable.

00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:44,440
You got to think so fast.

00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:51,000
And to me, the one I wanted after reflection was hanging with other

00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:52,280
people who are just as crazy.

00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:59,400
And to me, the best way off that was going to a comp as a comp climber.

00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,160
They had me all my idols.

00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:06,040
I can meet all these other crazy people who are absolutely nuts about climbing.

00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:13,080
To me, comp climbing, it's, it's like, it's like, it's like,

00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:17,160
it's like climbing, it's, you got to be the most well-rounded climber.

00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,760
And to do that, you got to do a lot of thinking as well.

00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:27,480
And to talk to other people who have given, I'm not sure about this, but I'm

00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,640
pretty sure most people at the top think about their own climbing a lot.

00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:32,760
Right?

00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,520
After the training, they're not just, you know, forgetting about everything

00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:37,960
and do other stuff.

00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:39,400
They're still thinking about climbing.

00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,880
Even when they sleep, they're dreaming about climbing.

00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,240
And to me, I want to hang with people like that.

00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:54,600
I want to experience climbing alongside them, with them, or just experience

00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:55,800
different aspects of climbing.

00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:00,520
And I think being a pro climber allows you to try a lot of new stuff within

00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:01,320
climbing.

00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,560
There are a lot of opportunities you can have.

00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,320
That's why I wanted to be one.

00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,320
So yeah, I think understanding why you climb is extremely important.

00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:17,160
Because knowing what you want makes it a lot easier to approach your goal.

00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:24,920
And when the end goal for me was to have fun, enjoy it, it changes the

00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,400
dynamic of my sessions or the mindset.

00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:33,080
When the mindset is like, have fun at the end, like I'm in this so I can have

00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,880
fun and, you know, talk to people I love.

00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:40,040
Talk to people who are just as crazy with me, just as crazy about climbing,

00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,680
ask me.

00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:46,040
Then I shouldn't be stressing all the time when I don't climb well.

00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:46,360
Right?

00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,880
Even when I'm not climbing well, I was still doing what I love.

00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:51,560
I'm still climbing.

00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:52,600
I'm still having fun.

00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:55,480
To me, that's the most important part.

00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:01,240
If you're not enjoying it anymore, I don't really see the point.

00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:04,840
Of course, you can't be all happy every single day when you go into climbing,

00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,160
but at least trying to be is quite important to me.

00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,600
Or at least there's something I should strive for.

00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,760
Just enjoying climbing and enjoy the company.

00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:19,080
That was a really good way of putting it.

00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,680
I wish we could end on that note, but I have a couple of discord questions.

00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:26,920
Sure, let's go for it.

00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:27,420
Yeah.

00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:34,120
The first one, are there areas where you feel like your lack of experience

00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:40,840
climbing in terms of just number of years, is I guess your lack of experience

00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,560
shows up more compared to climbers who have been climbing since they were kids.

00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:46,840
Do you notice a difference there?

00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,160
Yeah, definitely.

00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:54,360
In terms of thinking about beta, if you're talking specifics, it's the biggest thing.

00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,080
When I'm in a comp or just a normal climbing setting in the gym,

00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,560
let's say we have a hard problem with our projecting,

00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,960
I might think of one or two ways to do it.

00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,960
If you give me time, I think of three, but those ideas and betas and ways

00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,440
of doing climb come instantly to my friends.

00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:18,040
Of course, they've been climbing for ages, but that's the most noticeable difference

00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:24,600
to me that they can figure out climbs really quickly and that relates to

00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,920
repeat hard moves once they have done them.

00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,680
It's crazy.

00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,600
Once they figure out their body positions, they know exactly what their body's doing.

00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,320
If I do a move first try, I think sometimes it's a lot.

00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:43,720
Like maybe I study a lot about climbing and like really analyze my own movements,

00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:48,520
but I still struggle with knowing exactly what my body's doing,

00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,880
being very intentional with where I'm placing my hips, my foot,

00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,800
how much momentum I'm going, all the small details.

00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:06,440
It's what separates me from the top or separates normal climbers from the top.

00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,320
You don't notice these things.

00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:14,840
I think if you just look at videos, I pose and a lot of videos, I'll have a few pose.

00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,480
It's hard to tell the difference I even find.

00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,440
Like you're just jumping around the same climb, so what is the difference?

00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:29,320
But it's what's going on in the mind that is the biggest separation to me.

00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:35,560
Do you think that in 10 years you'll have that kind of experience

00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,560
and that won't be an issue for you anymore?

00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:39,480
Hopefully.

00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,880
Hopefully I'll be, if I'm intentional with my climbing,

00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:48,360
you know, for the next 10 years, I hope I'll be at a really good level that I'm happy with.

00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:49,480
Don't know.

00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:50,620
Okay.

00:58:50,620 --> 00:58:52,620
Other question.

00:58:53,740 --> 00:58:55,740
You might've answered this a little bit.

00:58:56,780 --> 00:59:01,580
How did you have the time and money to make your training happen?

00:59:02,940 --> 00:59:06,780
Was that just because you were like done with school

00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:09,900
and you had like some money from coaching?

00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:16,460
So I've been saving up like all the time, I guess, when I had a save up.

00:59:16,460 --> 00:59:23,580
I wasn't spending too much really, and I'm still staying with my parents.

00:59:24,140 --> 00:59:27,580
So all the spending I had was for gyms, equipment and stuff.

00:59:27,580 --> 00:59:33,900
And that's my own coaching as a part-time job, like covers most of that.

00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:37,900
And yeah, so that wasn't really a problem.

00:59:39,020 --> 00:59:41,260
So nowadays, what's your plan?

00:59:43,340 --> 00:59:45,900
At the moment, I'm doing more coaching.

00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:50,700
It's like I'm taking it more, I just like full-time doing online consultations as well.

00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:55,580
I'm starting to do some, a lot more face-to-face one-on-one coaching stuff.

00:59:55,580 --> 00:59:59,900
Because that's why I enjoy the most, like really helping someone to like

00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:03,260
get better at climbing or whatever their goal is, right?

01:00:03,260 --> 01:00:06,620
Some people that have very specific goal of some clients who are like

01:00:06,620 --> 01:00:07,980
trying to get on the team as well.

01:00:07,980 --> 01:00:13,100
They want to compete at a high level and I try my best to, you know,

01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:20,540
help them learn from my mistakes and tell them things that I think works

01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:22,460
or will be most beneficial.

01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:24,700
Of course, it requires them to think for themselves as well.

01:00:26,620 --> 01:00:32,540
Or there are a lot of clients who just want to enjoy climbing at a high level.

01:00:32,540 --> 01:00:37,660
But like to me, it's important to ask them why as well.

01:00:37,660 --> 01:00:41,580
Like I don't want to just climb with someone who doesn't really care and, you know,

01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:44,300
just want to get better as you climb higher grade.

01:00:45,340 --> 01:00:49,500
The point of getting better to me, if you don't have a specific goal

01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:52,780
and you still want to get better, you got to understand why.

01:00:52,780 --> 01:00:56,380
And to me, to get better means you can explore more.

01:00:57,340 --> 01:01:01,580
When we think of higher grades, it's not just because you can take up a high number on Instagram.

01:01:01,580 --> 01:01:06,300
It's because the moves are, they get way cooler, right?

01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:09,820
By being stronger, you can experience more stuff

01:01:09,820 --> 01:01:12,540
and doing more fancy moves, be more creative.

01:01:12,540 --> 01:01:16,860
And the crazy things on your mind that you think you could do,

01:01:16,860 --> 01:01:19,580
your body will be able to handle them.

01:01:19,580 --> 01:01:21,420
And that's a great feeling, I think.

01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:27,340
And like making my clients realize that it's like quite important to me.

01:01:27,900 --> 01:01:30,220
So yeah, I do a lot of coaching.

01:01:30,220 --> 01:01:31,100
I really enjoy it.

01:01:31,100 --> 01:01:33,420
Teaching kids is super fun.

01:01:33,420 --> 01:01:34,460
They progress so fast.

01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:35,660
They learn so quick.

01:01:35,660 --> 01:01:38,940
And like kids are like so simple minded.

01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:40,300
They just want to get better.

01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:42,060
So they don't rest.

01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:45,980
They just got to yank them off the wall to tell them to stop.

01:01:45,980 --> 01:01:47,900
They just want to keep going, keep going, keep trying.

01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:51,580
And I find it so fun and helping them get better

01:01:51,580 --> 01:01:56,940
and like seeing the size of the face when they really feel their own progression is amazing.

01:01:57,500 --> 01:02:00,540
Especially since they start like really at nothing level.

01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:04,380
Although I love kids, kids I coach are they start from nothing.

01:02:04,380 --> 01:02:05,980
They don't have any sports background.

01:02:05,980 --> 01:02:07,180
Also, they're really young.

01:02:07,180 --> 01:02:17,260
But making my goal is just have my kids to be scaring all the other climbers at the gym.

01:02:17,260 --> 01:02:19,020
Like, oh, what are they doing?

01:02:19,020 --> 01:02:20,780
How are they climbing on projects?

01:02:20,780 --> 01:02:21,420
That's my dream.

01:02:21,420 --> 01:02:22,300
I love kids.

01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:25,100
That I think is really fun with it and setting.

01:02:25,100 --> 01:02:27,580
But yeah, I love my coaching stuff.

01:02:27,580 --> 01:02:28,860
And it's really enjoyable.

01:02:28,860 --> 01:02:30,780
So at the moment, I keep coaching.

01:02:31,340 --> 01:02:33,260
I'm really enjoying the YouTube as well.

01:02:33,260 --> 01:02:35,660
But that's just so fun at the moment.

01:02:35,660 --> 01:02:40,780
Do you want to keep doing something in the climbing space for the rest of your life?

01:02:40,780 --> 01:02:42,860
You think that's your calling?

01:02:42,860 --> 01:02:43,660
I think so.

01:02:43,660 --> 01:02:46,220
I think I've had passion in the past.

01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:51,100
I've surfed, I've skated, but I've never been quite as crazy.

01:02:51,100 --> 01:02:55,420
And I don't think I've, I was passionate about that sport for so long.

01:02:55,980 --> 01:02:57,980
It's been four years since I started climbing.

01:02:58,860 --> 01:03:02,460
I think I'm just as crazy, if not more about climbing than ever.

01:03:02,460 --> 01:03:05,500
So I don't see this passion going away anytime soon.

01:03:05,900 --> 01:03:11,260
And if it does, there's so much more like about climbing that I haven't tried yet.

01:03:11,260 --> 01:03:14,220
Like one day I'll really like to try big wall climbing.

01:03:14,220 --> 01:03:19,740
I haven't really put my time into the climbing, just like two massive aspect of climbing.

01:03:19,740 --> 01:03:21,100
I haven't even explored yet.

01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:26,780
Like going, doing more outdoor trips, going to expeditions one day.

01:03:27,420 --> 01:03:31,980
I don't know, but even just within this more bordering, calm,

01:03:31,980 --> 01:03:34,620
climbing space I'm in, I'm having so much fun.

01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:41,340
I don't see this passion going away anytime soon, especially with so many more aspects

01:03:41,340 --> 01:03:46,060
of climbing that have been left unexplored.

01:03:49,180 --> 01:03:49,660
Yeah.

01:03:49,660 --> 01:03:50,460
Awesome.

01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:53,420
Well, I think that is everything I wanted to cover.

01:03:53,420 --> 01:03:55,500
Thanks for joining me today.

01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:59,180
Would you like to let everyone know where they can find you?

01:03:59,180 --> 01:04:02,380
If they want to follow the rest of your journey and support you?

01:04:03,820 --> 01:04:09,020
If you just look up Jonathan Sen on Instagram, you'll probably find me,

01:04:09,020 --> 01:04:10,780
the kid with the white hair icon.

01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:12,780
It's quite easy to tell, I think.

01:04:12,780 --> 01:04:19,020
I'm also on YouTube where I document my process and the amazing people I meet.

01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:24,060
And I have a trip about Japan that I documented.

01:04:24,060 --> 01:04:25,580
I had a lot of cool experiences there.

01:04:25,580 --> 01:04:28,140
I'm doing a series on all things Japanese climbing.

01:04:28,140 --> 01:04:29,420
It'd be cool to check that out.

01:04:29,420 --> 01:04:34,540
I think that's something that's not really common in the climbing space,

01:04:34,540 --> 01:04:39,580
just understanding Japanese climbing and why they're so good, the culture behind it.

01:04:39,580 --> 01:04:46,060
It's just a bit of space that's unexplored and I want to fill that gap and tell some cool stories.

01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:49,100
So yeah, I'm on YouTube, I'm on Instagram.

01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:50,860
Let me know what you think.

01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:53,020
Okay, awesome.

01:04:53,020 --> 01:04:54,220
Well, thank you again.

01:04:54,220 --> 01:04:56,860
It was amazing to talk to you and good luck.

01:04:56,860 --> 01:05:00,540
And your competition endeavors were rooting for you.

01:05:00,540 --> 01:05:01,180
Thank you for your time.

01:05:01,180 --> 01:05:04,460
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

01:05:04,460 --> 01:05:10,460
If you're watching on YouTube, I would love to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below.

01:05:10,460 --> 01:05:13,820
And don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

01:05:13,820 --> 01:05:19,660
If you're listening through a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars

01:05:19,660 --> 01:05:25,900
and you can continue the discussion through my competition climbing Discord server linked in the description.

01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:33,500
Thanks again for listening.