45: Pete Woods, MC + Commentator

00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.819
Streaming events at the quality that people want

00:00:03.819 --> 00:00:07.120
is very expensive. Tens of thousands of dollars.

00:00:08.099 --> 00:00:10.699
And people in the tower, oh, the slab was too

00:00:10.699 --> 00:00:13.759
hard. And I talked to the chief and he was like,

00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:18.160
the slab was V6. People say that World Cup climbing

00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:22.100
in Europe is now behind a paywall. It's not.

00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:27.379
It's on TV. That was always the goal. People

00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:31.760
that consume sports. understand that part of

00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:35.840
consumption is economics. And I think climbing

00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:40.259
for so long has had this, it's owed to me that

00:00:40.259 --> 00:00:44.100
it's free. Welcome to another episode of the

00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:46.909
That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host,

00:00:46.990 --> 00:00:48.909
Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my guest

00:00:48.909 --> 00:00:52.170
for today, Pete Woods. Pete is a commentator

00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:55.189
and MC. He's commentated for several World Cups

00:00:55.189 --> 00:00:58.630
and North American elite competitions. In this

00:00:58.630 --> 00:01:00.850
episode, we'll learn about the art of MCing,

00:01:00.869 --> 00:01:03.570
times he's gotten flamed online as a commentator,

00:01:03.630 --> 00:01:06.670
and we get a lot of insight into the financials

00:01:06.670 --> 00:01:09.430
of broadcast and climbing as a sport, including

00:01:09.430 --> 00:01:12.129
the best argument I've heard yet for why Eurosport

00:01:12.129 --> 00:01:15.099
is a good deal. It's clear to me in this episode

00:01:15.099 --> 00:01:17.280
that Pete is a huge proponent of growing the

00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.920
climbing community and his passion really shines.

00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:31.709
So I hope you enjoy this episode with Pete. I'm

00:01:31.709 --> 00:01:33.890
excited to announce that my sponsor, Mad Rock

00:01:33.890 --> 00:01:35.769
Climbing, just came out with a brand new pair

00:01:35.769 --> 00:01:38.269
of shoes, the Remora Pro. I was so excited to

00:01:38.269 --> 00:01:40.409
try them on that even though I broke a toe on

00:01:40.409 --> 00:01:42.730
my right foot, I had to at least try on the left

00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:45.290
shoe. So I can definitely say that the Remora

00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:48.569
Pro is better than a rental shoe. But really,

00:01:48.650 --> 00:01:50.609
these are their softest shoe ever, which means

00:01:50.609 --> 00:01:52.590
you no longer need to worry about standing on

00:01:52.590 --> 00:01:56.319
sketchy volumes and comps. They also have a crazy

00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:58.959
3D heel that allows you to get more surface area

00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.700
when heel hooking and inserts that lock your

00:02:01.700 --> 00:02:03.700
heel into the shoe no matter how hard you're

00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:06.500
pulling. Feel free to message me if you have

00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:09.219
any questions about the shoes or sizing and you

00:02:09.219 --> 00:02:11.560
can use the discount code NOTREALCLIMBER for

00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.219
10 % off your entire Mad Rock order. Back to

00:02:14.219 --> 00:02:15.840
the show. What have you been up to? It's been

00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.219
a while. I'm good. I've been busy. Like I have

00:02:18.219 --> 00:02:20.719
a day job, right? So like I have my regular job

00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:24.080
that I do. What is that? I'm the head of supply

00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.240
chain for a financial tech company. Whoa. Okay.

00:02:27.860 --> 00:02:30.919
I didn't know that. Yeah. So that's my, I mean,

00:02:30.939 --> 00:02:32.699
my job keeps me pretty busy. And then I was just

00:02:32.699 --> 00:02:35.680
in Mississauga for the Jackalope, which was awesome.

00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:38.120
Oh, that just happened. Oh, I totally missed

00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.719
it. How was that? You can't, yeah, you can't

00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.319
catch, there's no online, there's no streaming

00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:46.199
presence for Jackalope. You just have to be there.

00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:49.680
Oh, sad. Would it be better if it was streamed,

00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:51.590
do you think? Um, yeah, that's something we can

00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:53.490
definitely talk about. It's the, we tried it

00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:56.629
once, um, and it falls into the same problem.

00:02:56.689 --> 00:02:59.889
So it's super expensive. Um, and the Jackalope

00:02:59.889 --> 00:03:03.370
kind of the model, they like to do things kind

00:03:03.370 --> 00:03:06.469
of as high end as they can. So like in the skate

00:03:06.469 --> 00:03:08.129
side of things, it's mostly a skateboard. It

00:03:08.129 --> 00:03:11.789
initially was a skateboard competition. Um, but

00:03:11.789 --> 00:03:14.330
two years they've had Tony Hawk, uh, the Tony

00:03:14.330 --> 00:03:16.900
Hawk for demo team come through. They always

00:03:16.900 --> 00:03:20.199
have like top names in skateboarding that they

00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:22.620
bring in. Bob Burkess was there this year. So

00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:26.039
like they're super established and they decided,

00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:28.360
all right, we'll stream it and we'll stream kind

00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.919
of all the semis and all the finals. They brought

00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.659
in, you know, a couple of big names to do the

00:03:33.659 --> 00:03:35.719
skate broadcast and I did the climbing broadcast.

00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:42.139
And the only downside was that that was the one

00:03:42.139 --> 00:03:46.659
year we decided to make it an NACS event. So

00:03:46.659 --> 00:03:48.780
we took a festival comp and we decided to make

00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:51.060
it an NACS event, hoping, thinking we would bring

00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:55.039
in some of the highest top athletes. So now you're

00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:58.460
dealing with judges and rules and all these things.

00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:00.439
And we had like a correspondence sort of like

00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:03.620
on the mat. And the idea was like after people

00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:05.520
came off their finals boulder, you'd be like,

00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.280
hey man, how would that go? And all the final,

00:04:08.300 --> 00:04:10.699
all the climbers were into it. And the jury president

00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:13.800
for the comp was like, no. And we were like,

00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:16.680
this is the future of the sport. Like why like

00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.399
sideline reporting is a thing. Um, so it, that

00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.500
kind of fell a bit into like, it was just another

00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:25.519
broadcast and it poured with rain and it was

00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:27.680
wildly expensive and they haven't done it since.

00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.759
So yes, would it benefit from a stream? Sure.

00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:32.680
It'd be awesome. Even if you just put, you just

00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.139
let it run like with the, the kind of the vibe

00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:37.259
of the space. Cause it's, there's like a thousand

00:04:37.259 --> 00:04:39.100
people watching outside. So it's a hell of a

00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.920
comp. I think it would be great to stream it,

00:04:41.980 --> 00:04:44.699
but it's, really expensive. Okay. So we will

00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:47.019
get into the details of all of that and like

00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:48.920
the price of setting up events and streaming

00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:52.500
and stuff like that a bit later. But for, I think

00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:54.079
like a lot of the international crowd may not

00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.279
know who you are. So what is your climbing background

00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.740
and what do you do? My climbing background, I

00:04:58.740 --> 00:05:01.519
started climbing a little over 30 years ago.

00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:08.129
I grew up in Ontario in Canada and just had I

00:05:08.129 --> 00:05:10.230
stumbled across it. I had a friend who said,

00:05:10.449 --> 00:05:11.829
hey, we're going to go climbing this weekend.

00:05:12.009 --> 00:05:14.350
And I said, okay, sure. Rock climbing, great.

00:05:15.529 --> 00:05:17.350
And it was just hooked. It was one of those things

00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:19.509
that just caught me that something about it appealed

00:05:19.509 --> 00:05:22.329
to me. And I kind of went all in on climbing.

00:05:22.410 --> 00:05:23.750
I quit a bunch of other sports that I was doing.

00:05:23.790 --> 00:05:27.129
I was in university. And then I started competing.

00:05:27.670 --> 00:05:29.750
So basically in the first year I started climbing,

00:05:29.870 --> 00:05:32.230
I started competing and I started managing a

00:05:32.230 --> 00:05:34.930
climbing gym. Wow. So there was something about

00:05:34.930 --> 00:05:36.509
competition. I've been competing. Every sport

00:05:36.509 --> 00:05:39.149
I did, I did competitively. So for me, climbing

00:05:39.149 --> 00:05:42.069
and competition was a natural pair. And then

00:05:42.069 --> 00:05:45.009
the outside part of climbing was the recreational,

00:05:45.209 --> 00:05:47.610
like the enjoyment, the escape, the outdoors

00:05:47.610 --> 00:05:50.529
corner of it. And also a little bit of competition.

00:05:50.970 --> 00:05:53.230
So you're like, you're trying to send roots.

00:05:53.290 --> 00:05:54.569
You're trying to send all the problems. Like

00:05:54.569 --> 00:05:57.730
that's your focus. So I've had this anchor in

00:05:57.730 --> 00:06:02.019
competition since almost the first. you know

00:06:02.019 --> 00:06:04.139
it's easily within the first year it's like they're

00:06:04.139 --> 00:06:05.779
fuzzy memories now it's like i think it was the

00:06:05.779 --> 00:06:07.600
first year maybe it was the first 16 months something

00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.759
like that but i went to my first ever competition

00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:12.019
we drove from ottawa to montreal i came in dead

00:06:12.019 --> 00:06:14.279
last um and i was like that's the greatest thing

00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.720
ever uh and i never came last again you know

00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.300
that's one of those things so i competed um for

00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:23.939
quite a long time i competed um like in canadian

00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:25.579
nationals as soon as we started having canadian

00:06:25.579 --> 00:06:27.839
nationals i did quite well for a few years like

00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:31.209
when i was sort of in my climbing prime um I

00:06:31.209 --> 00:06:32.949
went to one World Cup when I was coaching the

00:06:32.949 --> 00:06:35.550
youth national team. So I started coaching when

00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:38.949
I moved out west and I loved coaching. So you

00:06:38.949 --> 00:06:42.029
went to a World Cup as a coach? I went to a World

00:06:42.029 --> 00:06:43.850
Cup. I went to Youth World Championships coaching

00:06:43.850 --> 00:06:47.670
our national youth team. And then we went to

00:06:47.670 --> 00:06:50.449
a World Cup in part of our European adventures.

00:06:50.569 --> 00:06:52.829
We stayed in for like almost six weeks and climbed

00:06:52.829 --> 00:06:54.329
all through Europe. And there was a World Cup.

00:06:54.850 --> 00:06:57.800
So myself and Mike Doyle. went and competed in

00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:59.319
that world cup and i came in like third last

00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.379
like i was not ready to climb in a world cup

00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:03.819
yeah it was that experience experience i had

00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:06.759
no idea you didn't even tell me that one those

00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:09.040
are i i still have the i have the tank top so

00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.100
i have the was in aprica in italy um i have the

00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:16.220
tank top from that event and essentially i applied

00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:17.740
i said we're going to be in europe there's a

00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:19.740
world cup at the same time i was climbing quite

00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:24.199
hard like i was like a good climber and I got

00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.639
approval from the National Federation, you know,

00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.019
and off we went and we entered this comp and

00:07:29.019 --> 00:07:33.060
it was, I mean, Steve McClure, like it was sort

00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:35.980
of 2002, I think was the year we were there.

00:07:36.100 --> 00:07:40.540
And it was, it was only, it was route comps and

00:07:40.540 --> 00:07:43.699
it was very intimidating. The city was basically

00:07:43.699 --> 00:07:45.860
closed. We were in like the hotel, like all the

00:07:45.860 --> 00:07:48.420
climbers in the same hotel. And you walked over

00:07:48.420 --> 00:07:50.980
to the venue, you just stand in front of this

00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:54.339
massive lead route. And you try and work it out.

00:07:54.420 --> 00:07:57.160
And then I was nervous and I got pumped. The

00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:58.959
route was like really, really technical at the

00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.860
bottom. So classic route setting would make you

00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:04.220
pumped like at the very beginning. And I just

00:08:04.220 --> 00:08:06.699
couldn't I couldn't outrun the pump by the time

00:08:06.699 --> 00:08:08.500
I was in the middle of the roof. And that was

00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:10.779
it. And I think I came like fourth last or something

00:08:10.779 --> 00:08:13.500
like I got rocked. I mean, you didn't even get

00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:16.699
last. So it was super fun. But I kept coaching.

00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.779
I love coaching almost right away. Um, and I'd

00:08:19.779 --> 00:08:22.019
coached a bit of other sports. So I, I kind of,

00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.439
I liked coaching in general, uh, and I liked

00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:26.959
coaching climbing. There's just something about

00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.779
sort of breaking down movement and, and working

00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:33.220
with individual athletes, like in that team space.

00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:37.620
I really liked the way that lent itself coaching

00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:41.600
teams where you, it's harder to have an impact.

00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:43.399
I think when you're coaching large teams, soccer

00:08:43.399 --> 00:08:45.389
team, volleyball teams, things like this. But

00:08:45.389 --> 00:08:47.330
you're coaching individual climbers in this group

00:08:47.330 --> 00:08:49.110
environment, in this sort of co -training environment.

00:08:49.750 --> 00:08:53.990
So I kept coaching as I kept competing. And then

00:08:53.990 --> 00:08:57.690
eventually you, like I wasn't training full -time.

00:08:57.730 --> 00:08:59.809
I had a job, right? I wasn't really a full -time

00:08:59.809 --> 00:09:02.230
climber. I tried to be for a little bit. I was

00:09:02.230 --> 00:09:05.190
repping a couple of climbing brands. I went through

00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:06.909
that art. I was sponsored. I had all this stuff.

00:09:06.990 --> 00:09:08.710
I was like, maybe this is the way. And then I

00:09:08.710 --> 00:09:11.539
was like, I kind of like want to. live in a nicer

00:09:11.539 --> 00:09:13.899
apartment and I, you know, want to have a car

00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:16.600
and I want to go on vacations. So I decided I

00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.259
got a job. I had a real job. And that chips away

00:09:19.259 --> 00:09:22.379
at your ability to go climbing. Right? Yes. Like,

00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:24.340
oh, you gotta, you know, you have to go kind

00:09:24.340 --> 00:09:26.340
of be part of society and not, people choose

00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:28.179
to do that and not do that. And some people choose

00:09:28.179 --> 00:09:30.559
to take climbing in like a full -time direction.

00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:32.899
And I just decided that wasn't quite for me.

00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:37.370
So I was content. I have, looking back, become

00:09:37.370 --> 00:09:40.450
content with making decisions, maybe kind of

00:09:40.450 --> 00:09:42.490
just at the tail end of the prime of my climbing

00:09:42.490 --> 00:09:45.570
where I was like, ah, if I had gone all in, you

00:09:45.570 --> 00:09:48.590
know, what would have happened? So I think we

00:09:48.590 --> 00:09:50.850
all have those moments. And in the moment, I

00:09:50.850 --> 00:09:53.470
was fine with it. And looking back, I'm fine

00:09:53.470 --> 00:09:55.149
with it, but I definitely kind of think, oh,

00:09:55.190 --> 00:09:57.070
could I have done something different with this

00:09:57.070 --> 00:09:59.629
sport? But I think if I had done something different

00:09:59.629 --> 00:10:01.549
to the sport, I might not be where I am now.

00:10:01.710 --> 00:10:04.629
And I love where I am now. I love having transitioned

00:10:04.629 --> 00:10:08.350
from competing to being given the opportunity

00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:11.610
to emcee an event, a local event, and then being

00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:14.169
given an opportunity to do commentary at a local

00:10:14.169 --> 00:10:16.710
event and realize that there's a passion for

00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:20.129
that. And then I have a good at it and then grow

00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:23.309
that passion and grow that talent. And this is

00:10:23.309 --> 00:10:25.090
where I end up now. So maybe I wouldn't be here.

00:10:25.169 --> 00:10:28.409
So I think every step that you take on the path

00:10:28.409 --> 00:10:31.190
has an impact. I'm not a kind of fate person.

00:10:31.269 --> 00:10:34.110
I'm not a kismet person. But I do think that

00:10:34.110 --> 00:10:37.409
the choices you make, I mean, they take you where

00:10:37.409 --> 00:10:40.029
you are and you can have regrets. But if you're

00:10:40.029 --> 00:10:42.610
happy where you are now, you don't need to have

00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:45.629
those regrets. You can have like, you know. fond

00:10:45.629 --> 00:10:48.129
memories and like, ah, like I have this sort

00:10:48.129 --> 00:10:50.269
of anchor memory where a bunch of friends had

00:10:50.269 --> 00:10:53.269
gone to Bishop. Um, and I didn't go, I don't

00:10:53.269 --> 00:10:54.809
either didn't have the vacation time, or I think

00:10:54.809 --> 00:10:57.090
I was going to go to font and made that decision

00:10:57.090 --> 00:10:59.809
instead. And, um, one of them became, it was

00:10:59.809 --> 00:11:01.470
the first Canadian ascent of the Mandela. It

00:11:01.470 --> 00:11:03.490
was like the third ascent of the Mandela. Right.

00:11:03.549 --> 00:11:05.029
And that's, we're climbing the same level. You're

00:11:05.029 --> 00:11:06.830
like, oh, could I have been, you know, the third

00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:08.309
ascent of the Mandela? Like, could I have a,

00:11:08.330 --> 00:11:10.370
like a little stamp in a history book? Maybe,

00:11:10.570 --> 00:11:12.850
but at this point in your life, does it matter?

00:11:13.350 --> 00:11:15.879
You know, probably not. no yeah i totally feel

00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.639
that um okay so for those who don't know the

00:11:19.639 --> 00:11:22.799
nuances um how is emceeing different from commentating

00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:25.519
oh my goodness it's such a good question it's

00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:29.759
they are branches of the same tree so you are

00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:33.259
you have a responsibility in the event and i'll

00:11:33.259 --> 00:11:34.860
go i was just talking with a bunch of people

00:11:34.860 --> 00:11:37.259
because i was in mississauga the jackalope the

00:11:37.259 --> 00:11:44.980
mc side of it is the you are responsible for

00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:51.139
keeping the crowd engaged to a level that the

00:11:51.139 --> 00:11:53.559
climbers get the response they deserve for the

00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:56.500
work they're putting in. So you tread along this

00:11:56.500 --> 00:11:58.779
line, at least I do. I tread along this line

00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:04.460
of being integral to the event without sort of

00:12:04.460 --> 00:12:06.840
taking away from any of the moments and only

00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.299
trying to build them up a little further. So

00:12:09.299 --> 00:12:12.110
a crowd of people is a... literally a living

00:12:12.110 --> 00:12:15.590
breathing thing and they react to each other

00:12:15.590 --> 00:12:19.309
but you can kind of nudge them so i try and get

00:12:19.309 --> 00:12:21.210
them on my side i try and get them to want to

00:12:21.210 --> 00:12:24.029
see you know what we're trying to accomplish

00:12:24.029 --> 00:12:27.129
and the value that sort of their response to

00:12:27.129 --> 00:12:29.649
hard effort is and you don't only have to cheer

00:12:29.649 --> 00:12:31.710
for people topping boulders you can cheer for

00:12:31.710 --> 00:12:35.289
effort you can cheer for camaraderie you can

00:12:35.289 --> 00:12:37.149
cheer for people being nice to each other like

00:12:37.149 --> 00:12:38.950
you have all these kind of places where you can

00:12:39.450 --> 00:12:41.470
Not just be distracted and look at your phone

00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:44.149
or talking to your neighbor. So my job is to

00:12:44.149 --> 00:12:46.789
remind people that there's really exciting things

00:12:46.789 --> 00:12:49.690
happening right up here on this big stage. And

00:12:49.690 --> 00:12:52.350
then just to try to boost the moment. And it's

00:12:52.350 --> 00:13:00.190
high energy. It's high impact. It's not a lot

00:13:00.190 --> 00:13:03.070
of nuance. You're not allowed to describe the

00:13:03.070 --> 00:13:05.049
boulders. You're not allowed to tell people anything

00:13:05.049 --> 00:13:08.549
other than... Maybe I've pushed it on a couple

00:13:08.549 --> 00:13:12.950
of events. I had a chief root setter ask me to

00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:15.289
push the line a little bit at the bouldering

00:13:15.289 --> 00:13:17.590
project series a few years ago. My friend Tonde

00:13:17.590 --> 00:13:20.269
had said, he's like, we want to nudge it a little

00:13:20.269 --> 00:13:22.029
bit. It's not a sanctioned comp. He's like, you

00:13:22.029 --> 00:13:25.710
can tell the crowd in the room a little bit about

00:13:25.710 --> 00:13:27.529
the boulder. So why is it hard? It's like, oh

00:13:27.529 --> 00:13:29.389
man, that foot is so slippery. They're having

00:13:29.389 --> 00:13:32.230
real trouble getting it. Let's see if, you know,

00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:35.120
Sean can do it. So they've seen the boulders,

00:13:35.139 --> 00:13:36.320
right? They preview the boulders. There's no

00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:40.480
surprises. But the trick to not give away like,

00:13:40.580 --> 00:13:42.080
oh my God, I can't believe he heel hooked to

00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:43.580
the person that hasn't seen the boulder yet.

00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:46.480
That's where you draw that line. So trying to

00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.879
push it a little bit in terms of keeping people

00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.320
interested in what's going on. Are you allowed

00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:55.779
to say like if someone topped? I mean, I guess

00:13:55.779 --> 00:13:58.340
it's kind of obvious from crowd cheering anyway,

00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:02.889
but I don't know if you're allowed to. At sanctioned

00:14:02.889 --> 00:14:06.210
comps, it's way trickier. So I've had exchanges

00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:09.250
with chief judges and jury presidents over the

00:14:09.250 --> 00:14:13.009
years who were like, you can't. And I was like,

00:14:13.149 --> 00:14:16.730
they know. So you people, that's two hands. You

00:14:16.730 --> 00:14:22.289
have to connect. You're not in a vacuum. Beta,

00:14:22.450 --> 00:14:26.429
definitely not. But sort of information, yes.

00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:29.769
And you're right. It's almost impossible not

00:14:29.769 --> 00:14:33.009
to know. If someone has topped a boulder and

00:14:33.009 --> 00:14:36.230
even in whether you're doing festival style where

00:14:36.230 --> 00:14:38.509
you're changing the format or you're doing like

00:14:38.509 --> 00:14:42.269
a normal comp where people are sort of in ISO

00:14:42.269 --> 00:14:45.149
and then in secondary ISO together. If somebody

00:14:45.149 --> 00:14:47.470
comes back to secondary ISO a minute and a half

00:14:47.470 --> 00:14:50.850
after you, they flash a boulder and you'll have

00:14:50.850 --> 00:14:52.850
heard it from the crowd, especially at an event

00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:56.370
that has a lot of people at it. A thousand people

00:14:56.370 --> 00:14:59.870
are going to make. like a pretty big noise every

00:14:59.870 --> 00:15:02.690
time someone does a boulder. Or if someone gets

00:15:02.690 --> 00:15:06.149
to the zone and they haven't seen that yet, the

00:15:06.149 --> 00:15:09.610
kind of hum turns into like an explosion. And

00:15:09.610 --> 00:15:11.990
then if they keep going, it, you know, it manages

00:15:11.990 --> 00:15:14.309
to go even further. So you kind of, you always

00:15:14.309 --> 00:15:17.169
have an idea. Okay. So then going into commentary,

00:15:17.509 --> 00:15:19.669
well, I guess, do you have like a preference

00:15:19.669 --> 00:15:23.149
of doing one or the other? I, I waver. I waver

00:15:23.149 --> 00:15:26.990
when I'm in an event and I'm on the mats. in

00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:29.470
the middle of a final, there's a thousand people

00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:30.929
and the lights are on and people are topping

00:15:30.929 --> 00:15:35.350
boulders, I wouldn't trade it. It's so much fun.

00:15:36.009 --> 00:15:39.149
There's a kid that just snuck into finals in

00:15:39.149 --> 00:15:41.450
Mississauga at the Jackalope. He's a super good

00:15:41.450 --> 00:15:47.950
climber. On the last boulder, insane, crazy Gaston

00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:51.789
dino palm press thing. Stuck it. The roof comes

00:15:51.789 --> 00:15:56.269
off. He's all excited. He turns around and I

00:15:56.269 --> 00:15:59.700
was like, bro, he almost knocked me over. Like

00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:02.120
he ran up and like gave me this big bear hug.

00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.700
I almost fell over. Like it was so, so being

00:16:04.700 --> 00:16:07.419
connected to that level of energy and that emotion,

00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.419
it's wild. And I have these moments, you know,

00:16:11.419 --> 00:16:12.820
just standing around with people on the mats

00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:15.200
and at a comp where there's less, you know, we're

00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.220
not sanctioned so we can do what we want. You

00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:19.059
hang out with the athletes. I brought someone

00:16:19.059 --> 00:16:20.539
their chalk bags. She was hanging in an upside

00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:23.580
down knee bar. Like anybody, does anyone care?

00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:25.320
I looked at the other finalists. I'm like, can

00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.259
I? And they were like, So I brought her a chalk

00:16:27.259 --> 00:16:28.860
bag to chalk up in the middle of the climb. Like

00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:32.179
you don't, that's the connection for me is like,

00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:33.840
it's so much fun to be like, I'm just this little

00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:36.759
corner. I'm still involved. But broadcasting

00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:43.159
as a, at my kind of core in climbing as a coach,

00:16:43.179 --> 00:16:46.080
as a teacher, as a mentor, that's where broadcasting

00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.220
gets to shine because you have this platform

00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:55.519
of pretty engaged people who you can. Bring climbing

00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:59.139
to. You can teach the sport as it's happening.

00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:02.700
You can provide knowledge. You can give insight.

00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:07.680
You can talk about issues. I'm a huge, huge fan

00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.839
of root setting. I mean, I think we mostly are,

00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:11.759
but I'm a big kind of booster for root setting.

00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.279
A lot of my close friends are root setters and

00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.119
it's such a core component. And that's the thing

00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.599
that gets complained. People always go, oh, the

00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:19.819
root setting was this, root setting was that.

00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:22.880
So I'm a big defendant of root setting as an

00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.039
art. And you get to talk about it on a broadcast.

00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:28.319
You get to talk about the skill and the nuance.

00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:31.460
And I'll go and watch them tweak the final or

00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:34.440
tweak the semi and spend hours moving a foothold

00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.940
around. And for me to be able to say that to

00:17:37.940 --> 00:17:39.200
the people watching at home is like, what you

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.079
don't know is that foothold used to be three

00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.039
inches to the right and the boulder was too hard.

00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:45.539
And now, you know, they tried everything and

00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:47.519
look now it's getting like it's being done a

00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.000
fourth or fifth or sixth try for people. So you

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.920
get to have this. The same kind of conversation

00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.880
that you have out for dinner or around the coffee

00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:57.960
table, around the fire, where you break down

00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.940
climbing and you get into why you love it and

00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:03.720
you get into people's style and you get into

00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:05.920
why someone did a boulder and someone didn't.

00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:10.839
You get to get into watching teammates do something

00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.200
different on a boulder that is wrong that no

00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.799
one else did. You're like, oh my God, they obviously

00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:17.740
talked about that. So they're like, oh yeah,

00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:19.720
we're going to do this. And they both did it.

00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.420
And they both did it wrong before they had to

00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:23.099
come back around. And that gives you this window

00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:27.740
to talk about the way that route previews work.

00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:29.720
And you just have these threads you get to keep

00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.220
pulling on for a couple of hours. And you just

00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.140
get to hang out. And usually whoever the co -commentator

00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:37.779
is, is going to have a similar level of interest

00:18:37.779 --> 00:18:40.220
and passion about climbing. And there's places

00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:42.619
where you get to like, you know, sometimes you're

00:18:42.619 --> 00:18:44.700
just plain blown away or excited. And sometimes

00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.450
you're like. You get really, really nuanced about

00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:50.470
movement. And for me, that's super fun. So in

00:18:50.470 --> 00:18:52.250
the middle of a broadcast, if you ask me, I tell

00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:54.289
you every time I would do, if I had to pick one,

00:18:54.289 --> 00:18:55.970
I would pick broadcasting. In the middle of a

00:18:55.970 --> 00:18:58.569
final, when everything's going off, I'd be like,

00:18:58.650 --> 00:19:01.109
oh man, this is good times too. How much does

00:19:01.109 --> 00:19:03.529
it cost to stream a competition? And what all

00:19:03.529 --> 00:19:06.230
goes into that cost? Tens of thousands of dollars.

00:19:07.230 --> 00:19:10.609
Streaming events at the quality that people want

00:19:10.609 --> 00:19:15.000
is very expensive. World Cup level broadcast

00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.980
is the sports you're used to watching on TV.

00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:21.759
Those are the cameras. That's the production

00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.660
trailer. So, you know, I've shown people pictures

00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.740
from U .S. Nationals of the production trailer

00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:31.039
that's parked outside and the 50 monitors and

00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.460
like seven produce like people doing graphics,

00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.279
people doing all of these things. We have show

00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.640
run meetings like there's a team of at least

00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.519
10 on the production side plus camera people.

00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:47.279
Plus the commentary group team and all of those

00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.599
people have to get where you're going. So, you

00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.980
know, even just to fly, um, and, and a hotel,

00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:58.099
if to get me somewhere is going to be a couple

00:19:58.099 --> 00:20:01.579
thousand dollars times a second commentator,

00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:06.079
you're at probably five grand already just to

00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.519
have people in, in the building from wherever

00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.420
they live, you know, originally. And then you

00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:13.880
have to get, you have to pay the camera people,

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:15.619
you pay the producers, like all of these things

00:20:15.619 --> 00:20:17.420
kind of ticking all the way down the line. Of

00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:18.819
course, there's volunteers at climbing events,

00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:25.200
but no one's volunteering from, you know, a camera

00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.859
production crew. So they're, I mean, $40 ,000,

00:20:30.859 --> 00:20:33.740
$50 ,000, $60 ,000. I know the dock masters,

00:20:34.099 --> 00:20:37.400
the guys that put that on, they do other sports

00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:39.579
like that camera crew, that production crew.

00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:42.980
Um, and they, you know, they're, it's a small

00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:44.339
country, so they don't have to, they're like,

00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.799
they live in the Netherlands and they just have

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:48.640
to come further. You know, they just come out

00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.019
to the city, but they still have to stay in hotels

00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:53.299
and still have to drive their cars. Like even

00:20:53.299 --> 00:20:55.960
if everyone lives in the city that you're putting

00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.539
the event on in, it's still expensive to pay

00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:01.400
everybody for that time. Um, and you, I mean,

00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:02.640
you're not bought, you're not renting camera

00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.400
equipment at this point. You're working with

00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.180
production companies that own it, but they're

00:21:07.180 --> 00:21:10.150
wildly expensive. Um, one thing, just a side

00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:12.210
note, if you ever get into broadcasting, grow

00:21:12.210 --> 00:21:15.509
a thick skin and do not read the comments. I've

00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:17.390
read some horrible things about myself. Hey,

00:21:17.450 --> 00:21:21.230
I'm an idiot, right? All these things. Um, but

00:21:21.230 --> 00:21:23.430
we, someone put in the comments and it came back

00:21:23.430 --> 00:21:26.529
around and said, you can't call them girls. Okay.

00:21:27.369 --> 00:21:30.349
But my female co -commentator calls them girls

00:21:30.349 --> 00:21:33.349
because that's, it's okay for her to say that.

00:21:33.589 --> 00:21:36.890
Oh, the girls. Unlike the women, right? The female

00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:39.009
climbers, the ladies, the athletes. So you have

00:21:39.009 --> 00:21:42.369
to build these things that are okay in a social

00:21:42.369 --> 00:21:45.329
setting at the pub that are not okay on a national

00:21:45.329 --> 00:21:47.349
and international broadcast. Do you remember

00:21:47.349 --> 00:21:50.869
like any other things that stand out to you that

00:21:50.869 --> 00:21:53.829
you had to like learn to change during commentary?

00:21:54.269 --> 00:21:57.869
You can't really be a fan doing commentary because

00:21:57.869 --> 00:21:59.769
then it just sounds like you're a fan. So I had

00:21:59.769 --> 00:22:02.630
to learn to be a little bit more kind of toned

00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:05.470
down a little more level for sure. So choice

00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:08.950
of words, choice of language. I had to change

00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:12.190
for sure. Just sort of throw away expressions

00:22:12.190 --> 00:22:15.730
that you might use that have no real impact.

00:22:16.769 --> 00:22:19.009
You know, I kind of learned to narrow your language

00:22:19.009 --> 00:22:21.430
down and be more descriptive in a more concise

00:22:21.430 --> 00:22:24.089
way. I like to wander when I talk. I like to

00:22:24.089 --> 00:22:27.710
meander, tell a story. But you have to be able

00:22:27.710 --> 00:22:29.410
to tell the story and wrap it up before the next

00:22:29.410 --> 00:22:31.670
climber gets on the wall. So I had to learn to

00:22:31.670 --> 00:22:34.940
be super dialed in. Um, and I've, it's funny

00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:36.579
cause I've talked to a couple of other people

00:22:36.579 --> 00:22:38.700
that did a podcast a couple of years ago and

00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:40.299
we were talking about being more concise and

00:22:40.299 --> 00:22:42.259
he was like, you are not a concise person. I'm

00:22:42.259 --> 00:22:44.980
like, I know like even this, this sort of wandering

00:22:44.980 --> 00:22:46.579
conversation that I'm having with him now, I'm

00:22:46.579 --> 00:22:48.559
like, you know, we're just telling stories and

00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.000
getting off track and you cannot do that. You

00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.880
have to remember all of these details. And, um,

00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:55.880
I was already pretty good at pronouncing names.

00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.299
Um, maybe just how I grew up. I started reading

00:22:59.299 --> 00:23:01.700
super young. So like, I'm not. I don't get worried

00:23:01.700 --> 00:23:04.880
when I look at foreign names. But I will forget

00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.920
things. I'll be like, oh, are they from? Oh,

00:23:07.940 --> 00:23:09.480
my God. And you'll sort of forget a country.

00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:12.200
And then you just have to change your sentence

00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:16.259
in the middle of a sentence to not talk yourself

00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:19.180
into a corner that you can't get out of. So you

00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:22.900
tend to think very quickly while speaking in

00:23:22.900 --> 00:23:27.019
a very measured way. And you can't offend people.

00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:30.279
That's the trickiest one is something you might

00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:35.420
think is fine. It's probably if it's on the edge,

00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.099
somebody will think that you're being rude for

00:23:39.099 --> 00:23:42.480
some reason. I'll give you another example. There's

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.900
a very good, very strong young climber in Canada,

00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:49.779
Evangelina Briggs. She's a national champion.

00:23:49.900 --> 00:23:53.680
She's the youth champion. She is an absolute

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:59.960
monster competing. She is also a mask. She climbs

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:07.700
like stoic, serious, almost no emotion. I said

00:24:07.700 --> 00:24:11.279
she topped the boulder. I think the boulder she

00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.400
knew was going to be the win and had this tiny

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.779
little crack of a smile as she turned around

00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:19.000
on the camera. I was like, oh, that's you can

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:20.559
tell that smile. She's going to be happy with

00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:24.420
that. And somebody put in the comments. in quotes,

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:27.819
you'd be prettier if you smiled more. As if that's

00:24:27.819 --> 00:24:33.299
what I was alluding to. It blew up. And I had

00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:34.920
to go and defend that and be like, that's not,

00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:36.339
and I brought it up. I think I even brought it

00:24:36.339 --> 00:24:39.319
up on the, like, you know, the next broadcast

00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:42.240
I did because I'm like, that's not what I'm talking

00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.980
about. Emotion is fine. Like I'll mention if

00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:47.160
there's a male climber that smiles, that never

00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.779
smiles or shows emotion or doesn't show emotion.

00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:53.059
Emotion is not male or female. Emotional is not

00:24:53.059 --> 00:24:55.880
rude or not rude. It's a descriptive fact about

00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:58.119
an individual or a sport or whatever it is. So

00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.259
to think that you have to explain that, you have

00:25:02.259 --> 00:25:04.599
to be ready for people to take what you've said

00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.220
and twist it with their own version or their

00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:11.599
own bias and then apply that bias to you. And

00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.119
even if you don't have it, you have to look in

00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:19.480
first and go, okay, am I applying a bias that

00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:22.200
I didn't think I had? And do I need to change

00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.000
the way I address things like this in the future?

00:25:24.039 --> 00:25:27.099
Or is that person just on a little island all

00:25:27.099 --> 00:25:29.319
by themselves and no one else thinks that I said

00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.480
something offensive? And in that instance, the.

00:25:32.059 --> 00:25:34.339
The Rosanna people in the chat, people were texting

00:25:34.339 --> 00:25:36.640
me like female friends from across North America

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.500
were like, you're good. Like, don't stress it.

00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.619
I guess in those cases, it's also hard because

00:25:40.619 --> 00:25:42.859
then maybe one person would say it and then a

00:25:42.859 --> 00:25:44.940
bunch of other people who didn't even have it

00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:46.599
in their mind would see it and then be like,

00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.720
oh, maybe. And I talked about, you know, there's

00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:52.480
the World Cup in Salt Lake City where Mejdi topped

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:54.519
the boulder and spiked his chalk bag and it bounced

00:25:54.519 --> 00:25:56.920
like four feet up in the air. Right. That's raw

00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.660
emotion. You know, what a story I just told you

00:25:59.660 --> 00:26:01.400
about Jacob knocking me over on the mats. That's

00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.940
raw emotion. And I think we should be able to

00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:06.140
talk about that without worrying that we're,

00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:10.140
you know, that we're, we're applying an emotional

00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:13.880
reaction to a gender specifically, instead of

00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:15.660
that's just happens to be the person we're talking

00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:19.579
about in the moment. So yeah, it's a, there's

00:26:19.579 --> 00:26:21.859
little pitfalls everywhere. So I've learned to

00:26:21.859 --> 00:26:24.539
be a little bit more careful, a little bit more

00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:29.710
measured, do more homework. try and understand

00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:34.289
um where you don't get to just have your own

00:26:34.289 --> 00:26:35.869
opinion so i don't just get to say that's not

00:26:35.869 --> 00:26:39.190
offensive i have to have i have to have like

00:26:39.190 --> 00:26:42.569
consensus so if it's even you know i'm thinking

00:26:42.569 --> 00:26:45.690
about it or talking about it and either in retrospect

00:26:45.690 --> 00:26:50.650
or you know in planning i just you apply a different

00:26:50.650 --> 00:26:53.150
lens which is a lot of people i mean will cups

00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.339
get broadcast on like 57 channels, the cable

00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:58.859
channels across Europe, like hundreds of thousands

00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:00.859
of people watch World Cups. So my first World

00:27:00.859 --> 00:27:05.539
Cup, I was like, this is not 800 people watching

00:27:05.539 --> 00:27:08.680
on YouTube. Yeah. How did the Salt Lake commentary

00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:13.720
go? You did it in 2021, 2022? And two, yeah.

00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:18.619
It was amazing. It was so good. It was the, it

00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:22.240
was the, what I had been trying to achieve since

00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:24.359
I started doing commentary was like, you know,

00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.359
I want to take this as far as it goes, which

00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.619
is the World Cup. I was super lucky to have Megan

00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:35.019
as my co -chair. She's just so smart and so invested

00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:38.039
and being in the US and she's friends with like

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:41.119
all of the athletes. So she had this like energy

00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:42.940
about her of like, I get to watch my friends

00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:45.480
compete and talk about them on TV. Like this

00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.940
is the greatest thing ever. So her energy was

00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:52.480
super infectious and the crew was. And they treated

00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.500
me as though I'd been doing it for 10 years,

00:27:54.579 --> 00:27:57.079
which I had been. So that was like, it wasn't

00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:59.319
like, oh, you're new. What do we do now? It was,

00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:03.279
oh, you're just new to this chair. And the professionalism,

00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:06.119
the timing, the voice in the ear, like the way

00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.740
the run, everything is like almost to the second.

00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:13.740
It makes it like a really enjoyable experience.

00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:19.160
The climbing was amazing. I mean, one of my favorite

00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:21.160
things, you think you have this idea or maybe

00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:22.559
people that haven't seen a lot of competitions.

00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.480
And I did a little behind the scenes with my

00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.619
friend Tyler, who has Plastic Weekly, which is

00:28:26.619 --> 00:28:31.039
a show at the last Salt Week Wilcox that I did.

00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.859
We did a behind the scenes and I was like, here's

00:28:33.859 --> 00:28:35.579
the commentary table. And it was like a folding

00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:39.119
picnic table, like in the dirt, like in the corner,

00:28:39.259 --> 00:28:41.400
like behind some cabling and like a light post.

00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:44.099
He's like, it's not glamorous. You're not, not

00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:47.059
all venues have like, you know. a commentary

00:28:47.059 --> 00:28:49.539
area. So there's this idea that you're like,

00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:51.500
oh, I wonder what the, what the booth is going

00:28:51.500 --> 00:28:53.140
to be like. And I have a picture from the finals

00:28:53.140 --> 00:28:56.220
and they put backdrop for the kiss and cry, like

00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:57.720
where they have the kind of who's sitting in

00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:00.500
first place. And they had the, like the USA climbing

00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:03.880
kind of screen in front of the broadcast table.

00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:07.180
So I had this picture of the monitors and a black

00:29:07.180 --> 00:29:10.519
screen. That was our view for the final. We could

00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:12.539
not see the boulders and we were eight feet away

00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:15.819
from. the boulders so um there's you don't get

00:29:15.819 --> 00:29:17.680
this big sudden jump like oh i'm doing world

00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.819
cups now we're gonna be in like you know oak

00:29:19.819 --> 00:29:22.480
chairs and like this wonderful environment like

00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.359
no it's still like the money gets spent where

00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.859
it's supposed to be spent and you're gonna sit

00:29:26.859 --> 00:29:29.160
in a plastic chair on a folding picnic table

00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:30.779
and you're gonna like it and it's gonna be fine

00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:33.640
but the experience was amazing and it just made

00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.410
me want to do more it would be nice to see like

00:29:37.410 --> 00:29:40.410
a nice commentary booth like they have in like

00:29:40.410 --> 00:29:42.390
the NFL or something where they're like all sat

00:29:42.390 --> 00:29:45.369
around and there's like a whole row of commentators

00:29:45.369 --> 00:29:47.170
and they all, yeah, I don't know. That would

00:29:47.170 --> 00:29:48.930
be nice. And if someone running stats to you

00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:51.349
and yeah, absolutely. I agree. That would be

00:29:51.349 --> 00:29:53.769
great. I think I was going to say this for a

00:29:53.769 --> 00:29:55.309
bit later, but since we're talking about Salt

00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:58.950
Lake City right now, I think you had an interesting

00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:02.569
anecdote about, I think the setting at Salt Lake

00:30:02.569 --> 00:30:06.940
in terms of like difficulty. Please excuse this

00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:09.400
brief intermission. In order to keep this episode

00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.039
a bit more focused on a few topics, I had to

00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:14.279
cut out a lot of really interesting conversation

00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.819
about remote commentary and commentating for

00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:20.940
new viewership. If you'd like to unlock that

00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:23.799
video along with over four hours of bonus content,

00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.900
do consider helping support this podcast on Patreon.

00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.140
Some other perks include a membership pin shipped

00:30:30.140 --> 00:30:32.559
to you after two months, prioritize guest questions,

00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:34.819
or the ability to submit video questions. questions

00:30:34.819 --> 00:30:38.380
and more to come the proceeds go back into the

00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:41.339
podcast help me break even and they help me improve

00:30:41.339 --> 00:30:44.160
the experience of the guests if you'd like to

00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.099
help out non -monetarily liking commenting and

00:30:47.099 --> 00:30:49.880
sharing helps a great deal as well back to the

00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:54.240
show it's into the conversation about how root

00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:57.599
setting is so integral and we know this but how

00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:01.559
the nuances of root setting are the important

00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:05.119
part about high level competition climbing. The,

00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:08.640
I've talked to so many root setters over so many

00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:12.880
years and been so invested in the, the care that

00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:19.019
they put in to every hold is real. Um, and their,

00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:22.799
their goal, and I'm a long time ago, so I'm good

00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.059
friends with a root setter named Tonde Cotillo,

00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:28.099
who's one of the best root setters that's ever

00:31:28.099 --> 00:31:31.380
done the job. And We would just talk about climbing

00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:32.700
and root setting and stuff. And I remember saying

00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:35.519
something about, oh, it's climbers versus root

00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.880
setters. And he was like, it's not. It's not.

00:31:38.420 --> 00:31:41.619
It's root setters creating movement that they

00:31:41.619 --> 00:31:45.839
want to see done, but not by everyone. So you

00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:50.140
have to create risk and you have to create room

00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:51.700
for error and you have to create falls and you

00:31:51.700 --> 00:31:53.660
have to steal time and you have to steal confidence

00:31:53.660 --> 00:31:55.460
and you have to kind of take all these things

00:31:55.460 --> 00:31:58.099
from climbers so they don't all just storm up

00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:00.599
all your boulders. So they want to see them get

00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.539
done, but not by everyone. So now the level is

00:32:03.539 --> 00:32:06.079
really difficult. If the temperature changes

00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:09.460
10 or 15 degrees or it rains an hour before the

00:32:09.460 --> 00:32:12.480
final, all of those boulders get harder or easier

00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:14.940
and you can't tweak them half an hour before

00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:16.920
the final. So there's so many factors that go

00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.279
into that. There was a slab in the semifinal

00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:23.000
in Salt Lake that no one did. None of the male

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.619
finalists or semifinalists, finalists? I can't

00:32:25.619 --> 00:32:28.230
remember from one. I think it was a semifinal.

00:32:28.250 --> 00:32:30.029
I think you mentioned it was semis, yeah. Yeah.

00:32:31.549 --> 00:32:33.650
And people in the tower were like, oh, the slab

00:32:33.650 --> 00:32:36.750
was too hard. And I talked to the chief and he

00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:40.990
was like, the slab was V6. You just, you have

00:32:40.990 --> 00:32:43.509
to, nobody decided to trust the foot they had

00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:45.869
to trust to lean across to do the rock over to

00:32:45.869 --> 00:32:47.609
do the boulder. It's like the boulder wasn't

00:32:47.609 --> 00:32:50.250
that hard. They just collectively as a group

00:32:50.250 --> 00:32:53.730
didn't do their job. You know, you can, you set

00:32:53.730 --> 00:32:55.650
the boulders, you set them out and you're like,

00:32:55.710 --> 00:32:57.849
everybody go. And sometimes all the climbers

00:32:57.849 --> 00:32:59.410
are on the same page and they're dialed in and

00:32:59.410 --> 00:33:01.269
they're crushing it and everything's perfect.

00:33:01.910 --> 00:33:05.730
And sometimes collectively they don't climb the

00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:08.549
boulders well. And then we get this conversation

00:33:08.549 --> 00:33:11.210
where people say the setting was, so people will

00:33:11.210 --> 00:33:14.309
say this, the setting at Salt Lake was too easy

00:33:14.309 --> 00:33:17.690
or the setting in Salt Lake was too hard. And

00:33:17.690 --> 00:33:20.910
I don't, I cannot abide by that. If you want

00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:27.150
to talk about. The third semifinal boulder was

00:33:27.150 --> 00:33:29.849
a little bit too easy. I feel like, you know,

00:33:29.849 --> 00:33:33.029
maybe that sloper could have been worse. Now

00:33:33.029 --> 00:33:35.710
we can have a conversation about route setting

00:33:35.710 --> 00:33:38.710
and how the depth of understanding you need to

00:33:38.710 --> 00:33:41.470
get to, to know why a boulder gets sent or not

00:33:41.470 --> 00:33:44.009
sent by six people or eight people or 10 people

00:33:44.009 --> 00:33:47.769
or 20 people. But putting these blanket expressions

00:33:47.769 --> 00:33:50.420
across, so the route setting was too easy. It's

00:33:50.420 --> 00:33:51.900
like maybe two of the boulders were too easy,

00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.079
but do you want to see four tops in a final or

00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.119
two tops in a final? And do you want to see,

00:33:56.140 --> 00:33:58.019
if you see four tops in a final, do you want

00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:01.359
to see five finalists top four boulders? Or do

00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:03.160
you want to see one finalist top two boulders

00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:06.339
and five finalists top zero boulders? That's

00:34:06.339 --> 00:34:08.840
how thin the lines are with World Cup level route

00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:12.579
setting. The athletes are too good. And it's

00:34:12.579 --> 00:34:14.340
hard to confuse them. It's hard to trick them.

00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:16.719
And it's hard to make them fall off. And then

00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:19.780
you get... People come up with new hold designs

00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:21.860
to try and be like, hey, this is going to make

00:34:21.860 --> 00:34:23.699
it hard to see where the boot rubber is or hard

00:34:23.699 --> 00:34:25.980
to see where the no -tex is. And people write

00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:28.360
in the comments, that's dangerous. Oh, people

00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:30.400
are so mad. It's not dangerous to have no -tex,

00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:33.219
right? Like the zebras that made their debut,

00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:37.820
clear holds. Like we, as collectively as fans

00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:40.820
and consumers of competition climbing, if we're

00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:44.980
not ready for innovation, we're stunting the...

00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:47.960
people whose job it is to build a sport were

00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:53.460
taking that away from them. And I have this like

00:34:53.460 --> 00:34:56.360
core memory of competing when I was younger.

00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:59.380
And there's a set of holds and we mostly competed

00:34:59.380 --> 00:35:01.940
on roots. There wasn't a ton of bouldering in

00:35:01.940 --> 00:35:03.840
that era and it kind of just came into more and

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.579
more. But there was a set of holds that from

00:35:06.579 --> 00:35:08.820
the bottom all looked exactly the same. They

00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:11.400
were half moons with no texture on the bottom,

00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.389
which was a thing. Back in the late 90s, early

00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:18.329
2000s, there was no text then. And from the bottom,

00:35:18.349 --> 00:35:19.949
they all look the same, but one was a sloper

00:35:19.949 --> 00:35:22.730
and one was flat and one was in cut. So when

00:35:22.730 --> 00:35:24.369
you're reading a competition from the ground,

00:35:24.429 --> 00:35:26.869
you're like, oh, that's the good one. And you

00:35:26.869 --> 00:35:28.489
get there and it's the flat one and you come

00:35:28.489 --> 00:35:33.170
off. We put tape on the inside of holds so they

00:35:33.170 --> 00:35:35.809
were slippery. So something you thought was a

00:35:35.809 --> 00:35:37.989
bucket now has duct tape inside of it and it's

00:35:37.989 --> 00:35:41.710
slippery. They used to re -pour well -known shapes.

00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.119
For the PCA comps, the pusher open down in Salt

00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.340
Lake City, the pusher was in the town. They'd

00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.639
be like, they would remold a hold you thought

00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.539
you already knew. You're like, oh, I know that

00:35:52.539 --> 00:35:55.380
pinch. It's super good inside. No, it's two inches

00:35:55.380 --> 00:36:00.179
fatter. So that's how we have to evolve. So root

00:36:00.179 --> 00:36:03.260
setting evolves, hold shaping evolves, climbers

00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:06.360
evolve. And then it has to go back the other

00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:09.159
way. So like, okay, climbers are too good at

00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:12.420
small crimps really far away. What do we do?

00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:14.599
Now we have volumes. Now we have runny jumps.

00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.679
Now we have, you know, triple coordination paddle

00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.159
dynos. Climbers are getting really good at that.

00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.320
I was talking to Mikael Mauem at the Dockmasters

00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:24.820
this year. And I was like, what if we just, if

00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:27.960
you set like a really hard, like terrible crimp

00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:29.599
boulder, it was like some of these guys couldn't

00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:33.179
do it. So route setting, does it swing back to

00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:35.579
1990 where all the holds are like a quarter pad

00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:38.340
and really far away, but then eventually everyone

00:36:38.340 --> 00:36:42.090
catches up. So I think route setting as a, as

00:36:42.090 --> 00:36:44.329
an art form and as a core piece of that puzzle,

00:36:44.469 --> 00:36:48.769
has to be understood. And I think that broadcasting

00:36:48.769 --> 00:36:53.030
allows that kind of peek behind the scenes to

00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:55.309
get, you know, oh, this is what actually happens.

00:36:55.389 --> 00:36:56.630
They didn't just throw the boulders up and walk

00:36:56.630 --> 00:36:59.110
away. This is how much they cared. I've seen

00:36:59.110 --> 00:37:03.349
Root Setters after comps like this. Like, I can't

00:37:03.349 --> 00:37:05.269
believe the last boulder was too hard. So they're

00:37:05.269 --> 00:37:07.010
their own worst critic. And yet there's people

00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:08.389
out, you know, hammering away on the YouTube

00:37:08.389 --> 00:37:10.130
comments saying their Root Setters don't know

00:37:10.130 --> 00:37:12.969
what they're doing. Maybe the root setters at

00:37:12.969 --> 00:37:15.289
your home gym who have been root setting for

00:37:15.289 --> 00:37:18.909
a year might set boulders you don't like. But

00:37:18.909 --> 00:37:20.550
these root setters have been that's their entire

00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:22.409
life's passion. It's their life's work and their

00:37:22.409 --> 00:37:25.110
job is to create the playing field that we get

00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:29.130
to consume. So for me, root setting is this.

00:37:30.409 --> 00:37:34.210
It's so important that we continue to have an

00:37:34.210 --> 00:37:36.530
education platform for people consuming high

00:37:36.530 --> 00:37:39.750
level competition about how difficult it is.

00:37:40.170 --> 00:37:42.789
set for this level of climber. Do you know how

00:37:42.789 --> 00:37:47.329
often nowadays root setters do these little tricks

00:37:47.329 --> 00:37:50.650
like pouring a new hold or something like that?

00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:53.630
I've only heard of setters saying that they would

00:37:53.630 --> 00:37:56.070
like sand down a hold so that the texture was

00:37:56.070 --> 00:37:58.409
a little worse, but I don't even know how often

00:37:58.409 --> 00:38:02.829
that happens actually. It happens when their

00:38:02.829 --> 00:38:05.909
vision for a boulder doesn't have the hold in

00:38:05.909 --> 00:38:08.679
the hold room that they need. So you're like,

00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:11.239
I really need a hold of this size with no texture.

00:38:11.539 --> 00:38:15.199
It doesn't exist. Go get me the sander. I'm going

00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.780
to grind the texture off of this one. I have

00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:19.739
a picture of my friend Caleb at the Doc Masters

00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:22.920
a couple of years ago, like just on a slab, just

00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.719
like, but he wanted the hold smaller. So it was

00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.719
a little nubbin and it was too big, but they

00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:30.460
didn't have anything smaller and they didn't

00:38:30.460 --> 00:38:32.780
want like a big dish that was like flat. They

00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:35.820
wanted low profile aesthetic. And so he just

00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:39.690
basically just cut the top off. And you see blockers

00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:41.570
all the time, right? So you take a hold that's

00:38:41.570 --> 00:38:43.250
pretty good and you block half of it. So like,

00:38:43.269 --> 00:38:45.550
I really wish I had a three pad crimp that you

00:38:45.550 --> 00:38:48.170
couldn't match. Like, I'll just block it. So

00:38:48.170 --> 00:38:51.789
that's the easier trick is to take things around

00:38:51.789 --> 00:38:54.469
the gym and do a little construction work, a

00:38:54.469 --> 00:38:57.349
little bricolage, and then you can do what you

00:38:57.349 --> 00:39:01.309
can do. It's pretty hard to decide to re -pour

00:39:01.309 --> 00:39:04.590
holds, but you have whole companies that will

00:39:04.590 --> 00:39:08.809
not release holds. to the public until after

00:39:08.809 --> 00:39:11.989
they've used them in competition. So you're like,

00:39:12.030 --> 00:39:13.690
oh, like Flat Hold made the Z. They're like,

00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:15.889
oh, we made these new holds. Let's put them in

00:39:15.889 --> 00:39:18.849
competition and then we'll sell them. So no one's

00:39:18.849 --> 00:39:21.150
climbed on these holds. No one's trained on them.

00:39:21.250 --> 00:39:23.469
No one's grabbed it. The first time you grab

00:39:23.469 --> 00:39:25.550
it is your first attempt on that finals boulder.

00:39:25.809 --> 00:39:27.670
And that's stressful. So now you create risk,

00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:29.690
you create anxiety simply by putting something

00:39:29.690 --> 00:39:33.369
brand new where you're like, what is that? And

00:39:33.369 --> 00:39:34.969
you see them climb. You see them. If you watch

00:39:34.969 --> 00:39:38.539
them preview, they're like. what did we do with

00:39:38.539 --> 00:39:40.480
that? Like, I guess you just hope it's good.

00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:42.940
Or you see somebody jump to something that's

00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:44.659
definitely not a hold you could jump to. And

00:39:44.659 --> 00:39:46.420
then they're like, that's not what I thought

00:39:46.420 --> 00:39:50.179
it was. Okay. Good to know. Okay. So moving on

00:39:50.179 --> 00:39:52.039
into something else you're pretty passionate

00:39:52.039 --> 00:39:54.139
about. You mentioned you're a big proponent of

00:39:54.139 --> 00:39:56.880
non -sanctioned comps. So non -IFSC related.

00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.699
Why do you think they're so valuable to the community?

00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:02.539
Yeah, it is one of my favorite things to talk

00:40:02.539 --> 00:40:04.980
about and maybe more in recent years. And it's

00:40:04.980 --> 00:40:08.340
not I'm just going to put my broadcast mask back

00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:10.599
on and be like, this is not a knock on the IFSC.

00:40:10.900 --> 00:40:13.000
Obviously, we should have World Cup level competitions.

00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:17.579
Like, it's not a one or the other scenario. So

00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:20.059
just we put that caveat, the disclaimer out of

00:40:20.059 --> 00:40:22.480
the way. Yeah. Little asterisk on the corner.

00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:26.159
Like, don't misquote me, please, if you're watching

00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:31.360
this. But it's exclusive. Um, even people that

00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.800
like to compete won't go to a national championship

00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:36.219
because they'll probably get rocked and you got

00:40:36.219 --> 00:40:39.679
to spend a lot of money to go and you, your competition

00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:43.500
experience is, um, you know, the first three

00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:45.739
moves of two boulders in the qualifier. And then

00:40:45.739 --> 00:40:48.000
you're like, great. I'm glad I trained all year

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:52.480
for that. Um, so the high level competition is

00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:57.380
the bar. Um, and then. For sanctioned local competitions,

00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.960
you still need to be committed enough to pay

00:40:59.960 --> 00:41:02.280
into your federation, to pay into your state

00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.860
or province, wherever you live, and be in that

00:41:06.860 --> 00:41:10.380
space. You need to be a competitor. And not everyone

00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:13.119
likes to do that. But some people think competing

00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:16.500
is fun. And I think that non -sanctioned comps,

00:41:16.500 --> 00:41:21.280
local comps, festival comps, and, you know, something

00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:23.489
we'll kind of, maybe I'll sort of... talk to

00:41:23.489 --> 00:41:25.070
them more at the end because we can tip into

00:41:25.070 --> 00:41:27.710
that um comps that allow you to make money to

00:41:27.710 --> 00:41:30.590
continue climbing as a professional climber those

00:41:30.590 --> 00:41:35.150
are critical pieces of the the roots and the

00:41:35.150 --> 00:41:37.449
growth of the sport because it makes competition

00:41:37.449 --> 00:41:42.289
accessible and it makes people maybe grow an

00:41:42.289 --> 00:41:44.429
interest in it which maybe makes them go and

00:41:44.429 --> 00:41:47.050
watch a world cup um which builds viewership

00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:49.159
which means that you can get sponsorship which

00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.000
means that you can pay athletes more which means

00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:53.139
you can put on a better broadcast the dominoes

00:41:53.139 --> 00:41:57.500
continue and they start at your local gym putting

00:41:57.500 --> 00:42:01.840
on a comp series that costs you 30 bucks and

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.179
they said 40 boulders and it's a fun scramble

00:42:04.179 --> 00:42:06.940
and you're going to win a chalk bag or a couple

00:42:06.940 --> 00:42:08.980
brushes or a t -shirt from the local t -shirt

00:42:08.980 --> 00:42:14.579
guy and that idea that you can compete without

00:42:14.579 --> 00:42:17.909
needing to be a competitor I think is really

00:42:17.909 --> 00:42:21.050
important. You can compete because it's fun.

00:42:21.190 --> 00:42:24.409
And if you play other sports, every time you

00:42:24.409 --> 00:42:27.610
go play it, you're competing. Any team sport,

00:42:27.849 --> 00:42:29.889
you rec softball, anything you're doing as an

00:42:29.889 --> 00:42:32.429
adult or in university where you're no longer

00:42:32.429 --> 00:42:36.070
on a competitive team where there's people on

00:42:36.070 --> 00:42:37.670
the sidelines and coaches and all of those things,

00:42:37.730 --> 00:42:40.449
you're playing like an adult level or a rec sport

00:42:40.449 --> 00:42:44.550
or, you know, I'm sure. You know, every province,

00:42:44.570 --> 00:42:47.289
city, state has some version of, you know, a

00:42:47.289 --> 00:42:49.489
beer league, baseball or basketball or squash.

00:42:49.590 --> 00:42:51.750
You have all these things. You're always competing.

00:42:52.510 --> 00:42:54.150
And then you get to go out and throw the ball

00:42:54.150 --> 00:42:56.070
around sometimes. But I go and I play soccer

00:42:56.070 --> 00:42:59.150
on Saturdays on a soccer team. Or I go play beach

00:42:59.150 --> 00:43:01.269
volleyball at the beach on a team, you know,

00:43:01.269 --> 00:43:03.710
every Sunday. But when I go climbing, I just

00:43:03.710 --> 00:43:05.150
go to the gym and I try all the problems and

00:43:05.150 --> 00:43:08.420
I go home. So it gives you a chance to go and

00:43:08.420 --> 00:43:10.519
be in this kind of a little bit hyped up environment.

00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:12.300
Maybe they turn the lights off. Maybe there's

00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:15.059
a DJ. Maybe you have an MC. Maybe you feel like

00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.519
there's a hundred or 50 or 20 people watching

00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.699
you climb a boulder. And you're like, this is

00:43:19.699 --> 00:43:21.559
a good time. Like, oh my goodness. I didn't know

00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:24.059
this adrenaline rush, this feeling of like, oh,

00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:25.780
I can't come back and try this boulder tomorrow.

00:43:26.260 --> 00:43:28.800
Oh, I can't, I can't work on it for an hour.

00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:31.199
I can't go outside and have a coffee and come

00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:33.239
back and be ready to climb it. I have four minutes.

00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:36.380
wow, this is exciting. This is testing everything

00:43:36.380 --> 00:43:40.440
I need to know. I coach locally and I coach people

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.340
who are like, I think I want to maybe go into

00:43:42.340 --> 00:43:44.119
the triple threat. We have this comp series through

00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:45.900
the winter and the summer or they're, you know,

00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:50.360
Friday nights and we shut half the gym. So there's

00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:52.380
still people climbing and they're like, I go

00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:54.260
and I watch and I see people compete and I think

00:43:54.260 --> 00:43:55.619
I want to try it. Like, can you give me some

00:43:55.619 --> 00:43:57.840
tips on how to compete? Right. And I'm like,

00:43:57.880 --> 00:43:59.639
absolutely. This is what you want to talk about.

00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:00.840
This is what you think about it. People either

00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.360
come back going, that was the worst experience

00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:05.960
of my life. I wanted to cry the whole time. Or

00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:07.900
they come back and they go, I didn't think I

00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:09.199
was going to do that boulder. And then I did

00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:12.420
it. I don't think I've ever felt that in a session

00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:14.539
like, you know, on Tuesday afternoon with my

00:44:14.539 --> 00:44:19.579
friend. So you smash all of that together. And

00:44:19.579 --> 00:44:24.300
that's what local level competitions bring. And

00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:26.800
if you take it up a notch and you go. Festival

00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.480
comps, so comps that you would have to travel

00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:31.579
to that have a few other ones, like a Sequel

00:44:31.579 --> 00:44:34.780
Block, for example, or Adidas Rockstars or the

00:44:34.780 --> 00:44:38.500
Jackalope. It happens a couple of times a year

00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:40.840
in a couple of different places and has enough

00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:44.179
money that people will come to it. But not so

00:44:44.179 --> 00:44:48.360
much money that the finals will be full of people

00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:50.639
that have flown in for it. And now you have this

00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.920
really interesting play where you have people

00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:56.590
from wherever it is who made the final. And people

00:44:56.590 --> 00:44:59.630
who've come in from out of town or who are like

00:44:59.630 --> 00:45:02.369
a national level competitor. And now you get

00:45:02.369 --> 00:45:06.369
to see what the game is really like. And you're

00:45:06.369 --> 00:45:09.010
like, oh, I competed against this person and

00:45:09.010 --> 00:45:12.949
I couldn't do this boulder and they smoked it.

00:45:13.429 --> 00:45:16.269
Like, wow, that's how good they are. And then

00:45:16.269 --> 00:45:18.090
you think that person went to World Cups and

00:45:18.090 --> 00:45:21.570
came in 50th 10 times in a row. Okay, so how

00:45:21.570 --> 00:45:25.889
good is Meji? Right? How good is Johanna for

00:45:25.889 --> 00:45:29.610
real? What is like that magic number of like,

00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:33.110
you'll have some people come in, but like it's

00:45:33.110 --> 00:45:36.489
mostly locals. I mean, you have to have, I think

00:45:36.489 --> 00:45:38.389
you have to have at least $10 ,000 in prize money

00:45:38.389 --> 00:45:43.949
to get people to travel. That's, it seems to

00:45:43.949 --> 00:45:46.110
be, it should, you should be able to convince

00:45:46.110 --> 00:45:49.570
people for slightly less than that. But $10 ,

00:45:49.570 --> 00:45:51.769
split between six people goes pretty quick too.

00:45:51.909 --> 00:45:55.599
So it's not like. you know, you're getting, you

00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.199
know, two and a half or 3000 for first and

00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:03.059
for third, you know, like it's, it's not, that's

00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:04.559
most people, if you're going to come a long way,

00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:07.320
that's your plane ticket. Um, if you have a comp

00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:09.719
that puts up that brings athletes in and maybe

00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:14.079
pay some of their travel. Um, so studio block

00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:16.400
doc masters, uh, I'm pretty sure if you have

00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.900
a world cup ranking, um, I think that's the bar.

00:46:18.940 --> 00:46:20.079
If you have a world cup ranking, they'll pay

00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:23.090
your hotel. Um, And if you have a sponsor that's

00:46:23.090 --> 00:46:25.170
paying for something for you or you have friends

00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:26.750
in the town that you can stay with, like there's

00:46:26.750 --> 00:46:28.489
all these reasons you would be like, okay, three

00:46:28.489 --> 00:46:30.030
grand is a difference. Do I think I can win?

00:46:30.489 --> 00:46:33.670
And so then how much does it cost to run these

00:46:33.670 --> 00:46:37.869
like bigger non -IFSC comps like Studio Block

00:46:37.869 --> 00:46:40.929
or Jackalope or something like that? Well, I

00:46:40.929 --> 00:46:42.010
guess that's kind of different because that's

00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:46.469
a whole festival. Yeah, and it's a good question,

00:46:46.489 --> 00:46:50.110
but it's a tricky question. There's so many.

00:46:50.849 --> 00:46:55.590
different ways to break that apart and a lot

00:46:55.590 --> 00:46:58.610
of it depends on sponsors and a lot of it depends

00:46:58.610 --> 00:47:01.570
on the model so you might have a model where

00:47:01.570 --> 00:47:05.269
people pay to be a part of it so the event itself

00:47:05.269 --> 00:47:07.829
isn't really putting out a lot of money but other

00:47:07.829 --> 00:47:10.750
people are or you have the competitors who are

00:47:10.750 --> 00:47:12.550
paying their way in or maybe the competitor fee

00:47:12.550 --> 00:47:15.650
is quite low so you have to have an understanding

00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:18.230
when you're trying to put on if you're trying

00:47:18.230 --> 00:47:21.159
to start a new event um what you can do with

00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.260
what you have how many volunteers do you have

00:47:23.260 --> 00:47:25.219
how many people do you have to pay are you paying

00:47:25.219 --> 00:47:27.000
your gym staff or you're saying hey it'd be great

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.380
if you guys could volunteer and they all say

00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:31.519
never mind i'm not that excited about it you're

00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:34.900
like dude um so you do have all of those expenses

00:47:34.900 --> 00:47:37.380
if you stream it or not stream it um you're gonna

00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:40.599
tack on a 40 or 50 000 or 30 40 50 000 price

00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:45.500
ticket on top of that um it's not it it shouldn't

00:47:45.500 --> 00:47:49.300
surprise you that a big A big money comp that

00:47:49.300 --> 00:47:52.099
brings in international level athletes is going

00:47:52.099 --> 00:47:54.219
to cost you a hundred grand to put on. That's

00:47:54.219 --> 00:47:58.019
like similar to the budget for IFSC comps last

00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:00.900
that I heard, I think. Yeah. And then you get

00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:03.139
to offset it. So your decision to keep doing

00:48:03.139 --> 00:48:05.139
the event or to put the event on is what can

00:48:05.139 --> 00:48:08.679
I offset? Am I charging people to come in? Am

00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:11.860
I letting people watch for free? Do I have the

00:48:11.860 --> 00:48:14.750
sponsorship? to pay for the event or is, you

00:48:14.750 --> 00:48:17.389
know, do I have, am I okay with giving out? So

00:48:17.389 --> 00:48:20.210
a lot of sponsors would rather give stuff than

00:48:20.210 --> 00:48:23.590
money because an Arc'teryx backpack is worth

00:48:23.590 --> 00:48:27.610
$800, but it only costs them 100. So he's like,

00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:32.550
am I okay with giving finalists stuff that they're,

00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:35.190
you know, goes to get people that go, I want

00:48:35.190 --> 00:48:36.849
shoes. I'm like, great. I'm sponsored. Who wants

00:48:36.849 --> 00:48:40.510
my shoes? You have all of these tiered decisions

00:48:40.510 --> 00:48:44.469
about where to spend money and how to spend it

00:48:44.469 --> 00:48:47.949
and who's spending it. There's lots of different

00:48:47.949 --> 00:48:54.610
versions of that. I think the chicken and egg

00:48:54.610 --> 00:48:59.250
problem is if you spend all the money, people

00:48:59.250 --> 00:49:02.429
will come. And then if people come, you can then

00:49:02.429 --> 00:49:05.349
spend the money. So the Dockmasters, for example,

00:49:05.510 --> 00:49:09.389
I'll put it down as maybe... for me, top three

00:49:09.389 --> 00:49:16.349
in terms of organization and idea. So they have,

00:49:16.510 --> 00:49:19.969
it's a qualifier. So you can sign up to be in

00:49:19.969 --> 00:49:24.329
Open. You know, in the morning, you go and you

00:49:24.329 --> 00:49:27.610
compete with the pros and they take your top

00:49:27.610 --> 00:49:31.849
six climbs and 18 people go to, or 16, 15 people

00:49:31.849 --> 00:49:34.809
go to semifinals. So you just get to sign up,

00:49:34.849 --> 00:49:37.349
but you obviously pay as that as a competitor.

00:49:37.869 --> 00:49:41.489
Or there's a citizen's comp. So that's just for

00:49:41.489 --> 00:49:44.389
everyone else. But they have two citizen's comps.

00:49:44.889 --> 00:49:49.289
So they have one on Saturday and your entry into

00:49:49.289 --> 00:49:52.349
the citizen's comp is your ticket to the semifinal.

00:49:53.829 --> 00:49:57.210
So you compete in the citizen's comp. Then you

00:49:57.210 --> 00:50:00.170
get a meal ticket because you paid for food and

00:50:00.170 --> 00:50:02.690
beer and they have a caterer come in and you

00:50:02.690 --> 00:50:06.289
get like. The foods are really good. So you get

00:50:06.289 --> 00:50:09.210
a catered meal and a couple of beers and you

00:50:09.210 --> 00:50:11.489
don't leave the gym and you watch the semifinal.

00:50:12.909 --> 00:50:15.230
Anybody who's put on a comp, I know there's people

00:50:15.230 --> 00:50:18.090
listening to this who are like, everybody competes,

00:50:18.090 --> 00:50:20.570
then they go home and then they don't come back

00:50:20.570 --> 00:50:22.469
and watch the final. And then you have this sort

00:50:22.469 --> 00:50:24.670
of flat local environment where like 50 people

00:50:24.670 --> 00:50:27.070
watch a final where you could have had 200 if

00:50:27.070 --> 00:50:30.139
everyone that competed just stayed. So they've

00:50:30.139 --> 00:50:32.340
created this environment where the right thing

00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:34.320
to do, the better choice is to stay at the gym.

00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.280
And then the same on the, and they charge for

00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.280
finals tickets and people pay, they sell out.

00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.900
So people are like, yes, I would happily pay

00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:47.679
50 bucks to watch world cup competitors this

00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:51.500
far away. But not every climbing community has

00:50:51.500 --> 00:50:54.559
that. And the Dutch climbing community, I think

00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:57.099
it's most gyms per capita. They don't have a

00:50:57.099 --> 00:51:00.480
lot of rock climbing. in the netherlands so they

00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:03.039
have a ton of climbing gyms and then therefore

00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:05.000
you just sort of breed gym culture you breed

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.679
competition culture and it just spreads out but

00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:10.219
having events like the dock masters on studio

00:51:10.219 --> 00:51:13.039
block masters adidas rock stars to some extent

00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:17.280
that provides this anchor of this is world cup

00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.179
level competition in the final and you get a

00:51:20.179 --> 00:51:23.400
chance to peek at it and try the boulders and

00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:25.500
qualify and there's always a couple locals that

00:51:25.500 --> 00:51:28.010
make the semi Because there's maybe six or eight

00:51:28.010 --> 00:51:30.369
World Cup athletes that will come. So there's

00:51:30.369 --> 00:51:33.829
room. There's room for you to make the semi and

00:51:33.829 --> 00:51:37.409
then get smashed on semifinals boulders and watch

00:51:37.409 --> 00:51:39.929
World Cup climbers just go, oh, yeah, I did the

00:51:39.929 --> 00:51:41.889
semifinals. It was fine. It was great. That top

00:51:41.889 --> 00:51:44.269
five boulders. And you're like, I couldn't start

00:51:44.269 --> 00:51:46.610
three of them. Yeah, I do kind of wish we had

00:51:46.610 --> 00:51:49.590
something like that. You mentioned that Punk

00:51:49.590 --> 00:51:52.409
Rock Masters is kind of a similar structure to

00:51:52.409 --> 00:51:56.409
that coming up. Yeah, this is. I'm so excited

00:51:56.409 --> 00:52:00.130
for this. I'm so excited. So Mark Bradley, who

00:52:00.130 --> 00:52:02.030
is the mind behind the Punk Rock Masters, he

00:52:02.030 --> 00:52:06.289
owns the whole room. He grew up, we're of the

00:52:06.289 --> 00:52:08.989
same era. He grew up where there was a lot, there

00:52:08.989 --> 00:52:11.789
was more sort of, we just competed locally. There's

00:52:11.789 --> 00:52:13.630
lots of competitions, grew up skateboarding.

00:52:14.010 --> 00:52:18.989
There was always a way to be like, I could do

00:52:18.989 --> 00:52:21.289
this. I could make money at this. This could

00:52:21.289 --> 00:52:22.969
be what I do for a living. I could be a climber.

00:52:23.030 --> 00:52:24.349
I could be a skateboarder. I could be X, Y, Z.

00:52:25.259 --> 00:52:30.739
And he also noticing sort of this gap in either

00:52:30.739 --> 00:52:32.380
you're competing at this level or you're competing

00:52:32.380 --> 00:52:35.179
at this level. And how do we create an environment

00:52:35.179 --> 00:52:38.920
where if it's not world cups, can you compete

00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:43.380
for enough money to make it worth it? Um, so

00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:46.760
he's hosting a comp, um, on, I'm going to make

00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:48.960
sure I get the date, right. Cause I don't want

00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:50.159
to get the day wrong. I don't have in front of

00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:54.389
me, October 11th in Huntington beach. And it's

00:52:54.389 --> 00:52:57.610
$50 ,000 in prize money. It's huge. Yeah. It's

00:52:57.610 --> 00:53:00.489
huge. It's the second most prize money of any

00:53:00.489 --> 00:53:04.409
Masters comp in the world. So the only one, there's

00:53:04.409 --> 00:53:07.650
a French comp, the Paris, I'm going to forget

00:53:07.650 --> 00:53:13.210
the name of it. And they had $100 ,000. Whoa.

00:53:13.409 --> 00:53:16.690
And the fact that, did you know about it? No,

00:53:16.690 --> 00:53:19.469
I haven't heard about it. Exactly. That's telling,

00:53:19.590 --> 00:53:22.420
right? Um, it got almost no social media. If

00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:24.059
you go to their Instagram page, they don't even

00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:27.579
have the winners. Whoa. So I, I, I was, we're

00:53:27.579 --> 00:53:29.079
going back and forth and Mark and I were talking

00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:31.159
about, he's like, I want to say that, um, this

00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:34.440
is the, the most prize money of any non -sanctioned

00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:38.199
comp, um, ever. I was like, we were talking about

00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:39.900
it. So I'm pretty sure this, sort of this comp

00:53:39.900 --> 00:53:41.880
in, in Paris was a hundred grand. And I texted

00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:45.000
Chloe Cosboy, who was, who was there. Uh, I pwned

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:46.920
him. She's like, it was wild. It was a hundred

00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:49.260
grand. And every finalist. It wasn't just podium

00:53:49.260 --> 00:53:52.980
spots that got paid. Oh, nice. Yeah. So he's

00:53:52.980 --> 00:53:56.320
like, why not put the effort in? It's like a

00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:58.639
year and a half of planning and building sponsorship

00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:00.639
and doing all these things. Why not have a competition

00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:07.340
that brings in that mindset of you can make a

00:54:07.340 --> 00:54:11.280
living competing because we've put in the work

00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:14.420
to bring in the money that makes it worth it.

00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:17.639
And this the first time it's going to be it's.

00:54:17.980 --> 00:54:20.539
It's an invite. It's basically a final. So it's

00:54:20.539 --> 00:54:26.159
it's it's more there's no qualifier semifinal.

00:54:26.260 --> 00:54:29.860
It's just a final. Oh, wow. But it's on the beach.

00:54:29.980 --> 00:54:31.920
It's outside. And there's a punk rock show. So

00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.380
we're just he's just he's twisting it to be like,

00:54:34.460 --> 00:54:37.860
you know, we can have this amount of fun. And

00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:39.980
similar like the Jackalope is a skateboard comp.

00:54:40.139 --> 00:54:43.219
There's motocross, big air. There's bands playing

00:54:43.219 --> 00:54:46.119
DJs like it's this. Why wouldn't you want to

00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:48.619
go down to Huntington Beach? And watch some of

00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:50.159
the best climbers in the world. And the confirmed

00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.780
athletes, it's like Mejdi, Mika Mauem, Colin

00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:59.179
Duffy, Brooke Futaba, Tomoa, Fanny Jube. Like,

00:54:59.179 --> 00:55:02.579
this is the level that's going to be climbing

00:55:02.579 --> 00:55:06.599
at this comp. And the proof is that if you put

00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:10.980
the effort in and you build the stage, people

00:55:10.980 --> 00:55:14.400
will come. And that's that mindset is like, what

00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.880
if, like, what if I built the thing, um, and

00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.519
gave this reminder to the climbing community

00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.400
that it is possible to put on events that allow

00:55:27.400 --> 00:55:32.400
climbers to make money doing the thing they're

00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.920
good at. Cause not every climber has sponsorship

00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:37.380
that pays for their, their lifestyle. There's

00:55:37.380 --> 00:55:39.179
only a handful of people that can afford to climb

00:55:39.179 --> 00:55:43.260
full time. Um, and having like an enjoyable life

00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:46.320
out of it. Um, not everybody's winning world

00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:49.739
cups all the time. Um, so you want to have this

00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:51.340
other way to be like, oh, in the off season,

00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:52.840
you can go do these events. And the jackalope

00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:54.760
was a bit like that. So the sort of the climbers

00:55:54.760 --> 00:55:58.199
that are around in North America during the jackalope

00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:00.460
events, because you're winning, you know, enough

00:56:00.460 --> 00:56:03.159
money to pay a couple months worth of rent, right.

00:56:03.219 --> 00:56:04.599
A couple of car payments and go, whatever it

00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.579
is, you know, three or two or $3 ,000 is not

00:56:07.579 --> 00:56:12.539
anything to laugh at when. climbing's ability

00:56:12.539 --> 00:56:15.300
to make money bar is unfortunately relatively

00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:21.199
low. So I think the value in having competitions

00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:25.000
like this, when you stack on community, you stack

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:29.900
on exposure, you stack on the connection that

00:56:29.900 --> 00:56:33.800
people can gain by being closer and having a

00:56:33.800 --> 00:56:36.900
little more fun. So World Cups are amazing, but

00:56:36.900 --> 00:56:40.909
you... It's not the same because it's judges

00:56:40.909 --> 00:56:44.309
and rules and you can't do these things. The

00:56:44.309 --> 00:56:46.769
Jackalope, we have a different format where it

00:56:46.769 --> 00:56:49.389
was a session format. So we take three of the

00:56:49.389 --> 00:56:50.949
finalists and put them on the boulder for eight

00:56:50.949 --> 00:56:53.289
minutes together. So they just work the boulder.

00:56:54.250 --> 00:56:56.429
And now they get to go to a comp and hang out

00:56:56.429 --> 00:56:59.389
together instead of being isolated and being

00:56:59.389 --> 00:57:01.230
like, oh, I wish I'd seen you top that boulder.

00:57:01.289 --> 00:57:02.289
That would have been really cool. It's like,

00:57:02.309 --> 00:57:04.710
oh, I get to watch my friends compete in top

00:57:04.710 --> 00:57:06.960
boulders. And you put enough money in front of

00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:08.559
it that then people are like, oh, I want to do

00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:12.139
that. And now you kind of blur the lines between

00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:15.039
the chicken and the egg and say, do I want to

00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:19.860
go see Tomoa and Brooke and Fanny? And yeah,

00:57:20.099 --> 00:57:22.960
I do. Do I want to go see like on the beach?

00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:26.059
Yeah, I do. Do I want to not have to go through

00:57:26.059 --> 00:57:29.940
the hassle of traveling to Europe or, you know,

00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:32.380
only seeing the Salt Lake World Cup come up?

00:57:32.670 --> 00:57:34.630
Yeah, in North America, we don't have the same

00:57:34.630 --> 00:57:36.889
ability to be like, oh, just hop on the train

00:57:36.889 --> 00:57:41.090
for 30 euro and go to Bern and watch a World

00:57:41.090 --> 00:57:43.230
Cup. We're like, oh, great. You can watch a World

00:57:43.230 --> 00:57:46.849
Cup or you can watch. Nobody goes to watch US

00:57:46.849 --> 00:57:49.849
Nationals or the team trials. If you're not connected

00:57:49.849 --> 00:57:53.690
in the community proper or local, it's just not

00:57:53.690 --> 00:57:55.949
a draw. You're not winning anything, right? They're

00:57:55.949 --> 00:57:58.329
winning team spots, not winning money. You don't

00:57:58.329 --> 00:58:00.449
get to turn the lights off and like have music

00:58:00.449 --> 00:58:03.070
raging. That's not how sanctioned competitions

00:58:03.070 --> 00:58:08.409
work. Non -sanctioned competitions, you can play

00:58:08.409 --> 00:58:11.730
with what's allowed and not allowed in competition,

00:58:11.929 --> 00:58:13.969
and you can make it enjoyable for the athletes.

00:58:15.329 --> 00:58:19.170
At the DocMaster, they have streamers go off

00:58:19.170 --> 00:58:22.170
when they announce the winner, coming down from

00:58:22.170 --> 00:58:25.190
the ceiling, and it's like popping champagne

00:58:25.190 --> 00:58:27.849
and spraying it all over the place. It looks

00:58:27.849 --> 00:58:32.170
fun. Exactly. That's the word. It's fun. And

00:58:32.170 --> 00:58:35.570
it's enough money that you get to keep doing

00:58:35.570 --> 00:58:42.929
it. So for me, things like that are so valuable.

00:58:42.989 --> 00:58:48.869
And I do want to promote festival -style non

00:58:48.869 --> 00:58:53.690
-sanctioned competition as an anchor, a pillar

00:58:53.690 --> 00:58:56.519
of... climbing in north america and in europe

00:58:56.519 --> 00:58:59.519
anywhere really um we just i think it's more

00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:02.780
valuable in north america because we are we lag

00:59:02.780 --> 00:59:05.719
behind what's going on in europe simply through

00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:09.219
geography you know that's the drawback is that

00:59:09.219 --> 00:59:10.940
you can travel around europe in the same amount

00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:13.880
of time it takes you to travel around texas right

00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:18.239
yeah yeah um so yeah i'm i will i will stand

00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:20.920
up and and put my hand forward for do what you

00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:23.679
can um and go and then you have to support that

00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:27.400
so i think i've heard i was talking to um a couple

00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:29.059
friends of mine just a couple weeks ago about

00:59:29.059 --> 00:59:31.579
punk rock masters and they're like that's not

00:59:31.579 --> 00:59:34.920
real it's like yeah it's real and like it can't

00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:36.780
be real like the names that they had sort of

00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:38.659
confirmed athletes as they go down the list like

00:59:38.659 --> 00:59:40.960
yeah that's what happens when you put up 50 grand

00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.039
and like yeah oh well no one's ever put up

00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:45.440
grand how is that possible i was like a year's

00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:49.659
worth of legwork to get sponsors to be able to

00:59:49.659 --> 00:59:52.239
do that. That's how that happens. Yeah. Is that

00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:54.619
how they managed to afford such a big cash purse?

00:59:54.739 --> 00:59:57.119
Like just sponsors and - A lot of work. Yeah.

00:59:57.300 --> 00:59:59.760
Sponsors, connections, all of those things. And,

00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.820
you know, I think anybody who's tried, and I

01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:04.320
know there'll be people that listen to your podcast

01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:07.250
that have tried. to either run or volunteer or

01:00:07.250 --> 01:00:09.010
work at their local gym or have been part of

01:00:09.010 --> 01:00:11.710
competition climbing and they've tried to fundraise

01:00:11.710 --> 01:00:14.409
or find sponsors or find like literally anything

01:00:14.409 --> 01:00:16.969
like for a youth comp or a local comp or just

01:00:16.969 --> 01:00:19.030
stuff to give their volunteers, they know how

01:00:19.030 --> 01:00:22.530
hard it is to cold call businesses and ask for

01:00:22.530 --> 01:00:26.090
stuff. There is a finite number of climbing companies

01:00:26.090 --> 01:00:29.849
and they cannot give out climbing stuff to every

01:00:29.849 --> 01:00:31.550
competition that asks them. And they're also

01:00:31.550 --> 01:00:33.869
not making a ton of money. So we keep going back

01:00:33.869 --> 01:00:36.440
to this pool. over and over and over again and

01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:40.659
be like hey um hi hi evolve can you give us some

01:00:40.659 --> 01:00:43.099
shoes i'm like this is like the 50th request

01:00:43.099 --> 01:00:45.820
we've had this year for shoes and no we can't

01:00:45.820 --> 01:00:48.579
so yeah we sent you some brushes and a couple

01:00:48.579 --> 01:00:50.139
of t -shirts that were misprinted how's that

01:00:50.139 --> 01:00:53.699
so then you have to start thinking well like

01:00:53.699 --> 01:00:56.280
what if i went to walmart and i asked the walmart

01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:58.699
guys if they would give me 50 gift cards for

01:00:58.699 --> 01:01:01.239
my local competition so fundraising is really

01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:04.440
hard and i think You have to go outside of the

01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:07.199
climbing box a little bit to really make it work.

01:01:07.699 --> 01:01:11.639
So you get, I mean, U .S. Nationals has been

01:01:11.639 --> 01:01:15.539
sponsored by Yeti. Yeah. Which isn't a climbing

01:01:15.539 --> 01:01:18.400
company. And now there's an insurance company

01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.639
that's on board, right, that sponsors the U .S.

01:01:20.659 --> 01:01:25.159
National Program. So if anybody that's watched

01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:27.320
any number of sports will see that most of the

01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:29.659
big sponsorships are not sports -related companies.

01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:34.420
There's no Nike Stadium in the NBA. Nike doesn't,

01:01:34.420 --> 01:01:37.320
didn't buy a stadium. MetLife is an insurance

01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.599
company. Like all of the real money in big sports

01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:43.440
comes from other places. Yeah, I guess that kind

01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:47.139
of leads into one of the other hot takes that

01:01:47.139 --> 01:01:49.159
you had. Well, what you had mentioned was that

01:01:49.159 --> 01:01:51.099
people aren't willing to pay for climbing entertainment.

01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.539
But I guess that also kind of extends into just

01:01:55.539 --> 01:01:59.300
like, like you said, sports brands not being.

01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:02.780
Like not being that profitable, I guess. Is that

01:02:02.780 --> 01:02:05.420
what it is? Yeah. And it's a fair question because

01:02:05.420 --> 01:02:07.099
I did bring it up when we were talking before.

01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:13.380
And it's something that I struggle with being

01:02:13.380 --> 01:02:21.980
inside climbing media. And I think that the sustainability

01:02:21.980 --> 01:02:28.420
of climbing media is like razor thin. Yeah. The

01:02:28.420 --> 01:02:31.239
number of people, and I've put polls on my Instagram,

01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:35.440
I've talked to, I mean, I've just talked to thousands

01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:39.800
of climbers over the years. And every time you

01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:43.659
say, would you pay for that? Most climbers say

01:02:43.659 --> 01:02:48.519
no. So climbers won't, and it starts at the bottom.

01:02:48.739 --> 01:02:50.639
Like, well, why would I pay to enter a comp when

01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:53.079
I can just climb those boulders on Monday for

01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.119
free? Like, I don't know, because it supports

01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:57.829
the climbing community. So why wouldn't you?

01:02:58.510 --> 01:03:04.030
I have a friend who's been in bobsled forever.

01:03:04.150 --> 01:03:05.409
So he's now the high performance director of

01:03:05.409 --> 01:03:07.710
Bobsled Canada. And we were talking about like

01:03:07.710 --> 01:03:09.989
fringe sports and like how you kind of get money

01:03:09.989 --> 01:03:12.070
and where the, where it goes and what happens.

01:03:12.150 --> 01:03:16.550
And he said, well, how much of your average person's

01:03:16.550 --> 01:03:19.010
gym membership goes to the federation? And I

01:03:19.010 --> 01:03:21.980
was like, what? He was like, how much of. Like

01:03:21.980 --> 01:03:23.719
if I go and buy a year's gym membership, how

01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:26.179
much of that is earmarked to go straight up to

01:03:26.179 --> 01:03:27.940
the National Federation? I was like, bro, zero.

01:03:28.780 --> 01:03:31.039
It's like, why not? It's like, how many people

01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:33.559
have national, have memberships at gyms? And

01:03:33.559 --> 01:03:37.559
if you just took 20 bucks a year, I said, because

01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:39.059
we've taught, and I've talked about it on a smaller

01:03:39.059 --> 01:03:40.300
level and people are like, well, why would I

01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:43.119
pay for something I don't do? And that's not

01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:45.099
just climbing, lots of sports. Like, why would

01:03:45.099 --> 01:03:46.940
I support something? I don't compete. Why would

01:03:46.940 --> 01:03:49.320
I want to pay for competition? But your national

01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.070
team is self -funded. They buy their own uniforms.

01:03:52.210 --> 01:03:54.510
They have to buy their own plane tickets to go

01:03:54.510 --> 01:03:57.610
to the youth world championships. So we have

01:03:57.610 --> 01:04:01.210
this problem where we need money, but we have

01:04:01.210 --> 01:04:04.750
people who are unwilling to spend money that's

01:04:04.750 --> 01:04:08.550
not to their own kind of benefit path. And then

01:04:08.550 --> 01:04:10.730
it grows. So I want to consume climbing media.

01:04:10.849 --> 01:04:15.329
I want to watch World Cups. Okay. So you'll have

01:04:15.329 --> 01:04:17.010
noticed, and I'm sure lots of people will notice,

01:04:17.130 --> 01:04:20.550
that... People say that World Cup climbing in

01:04:20.550 --> 01:04:25.889
Europe is now, in quotes, behind a paywall. It's

01:04:25.889 --> 01:04:31.070
not. It's on TV. That was always the goal. The

01:04:31.070 --> 01:04:34.489
goal was always be big enough to play with the

01:04:34.489 --> 01:04:37.710
big kids and be on television. And people are

01:04:37.710 --> 01:04:40.389
like, well, I don't want to pay for X, Y, Z.

01:04:40.530 --> 01:04:42.309
It's like, okay, well, I want to watch the NBA.

01:04:42.469 --> 01:04:45.909
I'm an NBA fan. I love the NBA. So I pay for

01:04:45.909 --> 01:04:48.690
cable with the channel. It allows me to watch

01:04:48.690 --> 01:04:52.210
the NBA. And so this mindset, even of saying,

01:04:52.250 --> 01:04:54.070
why would I pay for cable to watch climbing?

01:04:54.070 --> 01:04:56.690
It used to be free on YouTube. It's like, OK,

01:04:56.869 --> 01:05:00.949
but we've outgrown free on YouTube. So you want

01:05:00.949 --> 01:05:03.389
a better product. You've asked for a better product.

01:05:03.570 --> 01:05:05.469
You've asked for a better way to consume it.

01:05:05.550 --> 01:05:08.530
You've asked you like you take your laptop and

01:05:08.530 --> 01:05:11.090
project it onto your TV. Five years ago, it was

01:05:11.090 --> 01:05:15.150
pixelated to watch a World Cup. Now you can watch

01:05:15.150 --> 01:05:19.190
it on cable. On TV, by just sitting back on your

01:05:19.190 --> 01:05:21.630
couch and watching your 60 inch TV, high res,

01:05:21.889 --> 01:05:25.469
that was always the goal. But to say that you

01:05:25.469 --> 01:05:27.710
don't want to pay for cable, how can I steal

01:05:27.710 --> 01:05:31.329
this and have that be the default rather than,

01:05:31.329 --> 01:05:34.130
oh yeah, like my dad watches Premiership Football

01:05:34.130 --> 01:05:36.789
and so he just pays for DAZN because you can't

01:05:36.789 --> 01:05:39.889
watch Premiership Football in Canada unless you

01:05:39.889 --> 01:05:43.289
pay for an extra cable channel. If you want to

01:05:43.289 --> 01:05:46.210
watch F1, so all these people that consume sports.

01:05:47.460 --> 01:05:51.159
understand that part of consumption is economics.

01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:55.920
And I think climbing for so long has had this,

01:05:55.920 --> 01:06:01.480
it's owed to me that it's free, that I struggle

01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:03.619
with it. And I struggle with people saying, I

01:06:03.619 --> 01:06:06.119
wouldn't pay $5 to watch that. It's not good

01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:09.820
enough. Okay. So the conversation we had earlier,

01:06:09.900 --> 01:06:11.579
how much does it cost to put on a live stream?

01:06:12.579 --> 01:06:15.360
If you want the... quality to go up if you want

01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:18.000
the cameras to be better higher resolution you

01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.880
want the graphics to be better you want to have

01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:22.679
a producer who can actually talk to me rather

01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:24.619
than just passing post -it notes back and forth

01:06:24.619 --> 01:06:29.019
at 100 miles an hour yeah then that costs money

01:06:29.019 --> 01:06:31.159
oh I don't want to have commercials though I

01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:33.059
don't want to stop for a commercial like okay

01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:35.760
so now what like where does the money where is

01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:37.119
it supposed to come from you don't want to pay

01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:40.980
to watch it you don't want advertisers to pay

01:06:40.980 --> 01:06:44.889
so that you can watch it Oh, why don't we just

01:06:44.889 --> 01:06:47.210
put like someone's logo in a corner of a screen?

01:06:47.369 --> 01:06:50.110
Okay. So find me, find me a company that's going

01:06:50.110 --> 01:06:52.989
to give me 20 grand to ghost their logo in the

01:06:52.989 --> 01:06:56.269
screen, but not show a commercial. So I think

01:06:56.269 --> 01:07:01.409
there's so many places where it wouldn't be that

01:07:01.409 --> 01:07:04.789
difficult to contribute to climbing media, to

01:07:04.789 --> 01:07:08.929
consume competition climbing. But for some reason

01:07:08.929 --> 01:07:11.889
we haven't pushed the norm to, of course you

01:07:11.889 --> 01:07:14.699
pay for that. Of course I do. Oh, I don't want

01:07:14.699 --> 01:07:16.320
to watch, I wouldn't pay to watch Canadian nationals.

01:07:16.360 --> 01:07:19.579
Okay. So I don't want to tell you how many times

01:07:19.579 --> 01:07:23.900
I've, I've gone to competitions to put on a broadcast

01:07:23.900 --> 01:07:29.139
for $0 and spent my own money on my own points

01:07:29.139 --> 01:07:33.079
to travel, buy my own food, because I think that

01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:36.719
competition and being able to showcase it has

01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:41.980
that value. I am super passionate about it. And

01:07:41.980 --> 01:07:44.760
I think it's funny that it comes off as a hot

01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:46.539
take. And for me, it shouldn't be. That should

01:07:46.539 --> 01:07:48.780
just be like, oh, yeah, that man is just speaking

01:07:48.780 --> 01:07:51.059
facts about what do you mean people don't want

01:07:51.059 --> 01:07:53.059
to pay? Like, I tell other people that don't

01:07:53.059 --> 01:07:55.119
watch climbing that people don't want to pay

01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:57.179
to watch climbing. And they're like, well, how

01:07:57.179 --> 01:08:00.179
do they expect it to get to them? Like, where

01:08:00.179 --> 01:08:02.880
is the money supposed to come from? Oh, the IFSC

01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:04.780
has millions of dollars in its bank account.

01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:09.980
Like, they don't. They definitely don't. So,

01:08:09.980 --> 01:08:12.059
and then when you bring it back down a level

01:08:12.059 --> 01:08:13.599
and down a level and down a level in the national

01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:17.020
championships, I mean, if you want people to

01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:19.979
watch, then yes, the quality has to be at a certain

01:08:19.979 --> 01:08:21.880
level where people are willing to pay to watch,

01:08:22.020 --> 01:08:25.079
but we're there now, right? We're streaming on

01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:28.800
YouTube in, you know, 20, like full resolution

01:08:28.800 --> 01:08:33.220
to say, would you pay 25 bucks to watch, you

01:08:33.220 --> 01:08:38.739
know, all of the NACS comps? It's not a lot of

01:08:38.739 --> 01:08:42.760
money. Would you pay 20 bucks to watch the national

01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:44.939
championships, which is like seven days of competing?

01:08:46.340 --> 01:08:49.300
To me, that shouldn't be a lot of money. The

01:08:49.300 --> 01:08:51.260
U .S. did a really good job a couple of years

01:08:51.260 --> 01:08:56.279
ago introducing commercials, essentially between

01:08:56.279 --> 01:09:00.159
each boulder. So after everyone's finished boulder

01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:03.140
one, there's a natural break. And the athletes

01:09:03.140 --> 01:09:05.560
don't care if they have to sit for 45 more seconds.

01:09:06.909 --> 01:09:11.350
They flipped the script and said, in sanctioned

01:09:11.350 --> 01:09:14.949
competition, in order to make the product consumable,

01:09:15.170 --> 01:09:19.949
then the show needs to pull more strings than

01:09:19.949 --> 01:09:26.529
the competition does. So the producer is at ISO

01:09:26.529 --> 01:09:29.130
telling the climber when they can go out on the

01:09:29.130 --> 01:09:32.609
mat, not a judge. Because the climbers come off

01:09:32.609 --> 01:09:35.829
the boulder and they have them stand. Like this,

01:09:35.869 --> 01:09:38.130
facing out where there's a camera and we show

01:09:38.130 --> 01:09:40.649
that climber and their sort of immediate emotion

01:09:40.649 --> 01:09:43.569
after the boulder they just tried. And then their

01:09:43.569 --> 01:09:46.489
current score after that boulder. And then you

01:09:46.489 --> 01:09:50.210
wave them off and they run back. And then the

01:09:50.210 --> 01:09:51.970
next two come out, which gives the production

01:09:51.970 --> 01:09:54.210
team enough time to pull their name up, pull

01:09:54.210 --> 01:09:56.189
up their ranking and get them on their boulders.

01:09:57.170 --> 01:10:01.270
So now the competition waits for the broadcast.

01:10:02.440 --> 01:10:04.819
which is every other sport. Anyone who's watched

01:10:04.819 --> 01:10:08.779
any sport live understands TV timeouts. So it

01:10:08.779 --> 01:10:11.260
happens X number of times. And climbing, we said,

01:10:11.340 --> 01:10:13.640
what if we just did it three times after boulder

01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:15.800
one, after boulder two, after boulder three?

01:10:16.699 --> 01:10:18.840
And some people think it's fine. And some people

01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:20.199
are like, I can't believe they're putting commercials

01:10:20.199 --> 01:10:22.939
in climbing. So, I mean, I think we could probably

01:10:22.939 --> 01:10:26.960
talk for two hours only about this topic. And

01:10:26.960 --> 01:10:30.039
I don't, I'm not here to shame people who...

01:10:30.650 --> 01:10:32.829
can't afford to spend money on climbing media

01:10:32.829 --> 01:10:35.069
who are very careful with what they do or how

01:10:35.069 --> 01:10:37.090
they live their life. It's not about that. It's

01:10:37.090 --> 01:10:41.310
about this imbalance of saying, why isn't it

01:10:41.310 --> 01:10:43.109
more accessible? Why can't I watch it in higher

01:10:43.109 --> 01:10:45.729
quality? And then in the same breath say, no,

01:10:45.770 --> 01:10:48.369
I don't want to pay for it. So I do struggle

01:10:48.369 --> 01:10:50.010
with that. I have trouble with it. I don't think

01:10:50.010 --> 01:10:52.270
that cable is a paywall just because it used

01:10:52.270 --> 01:10:55.170
to be free. And if you had told a bunch of climbers

01:10:55.170 --> 01:10:59.289
in 1995 that competition climbing would be on

01:10:59.289 --> 01:11:02.750
cable tv regularly in a world cup season they

01:11:02.750 --> 01:11:06.949
would be like oh my god we're rock stars rock

01:11:06.949 --> 01:11:09.189
stars so the snowbird world cup one of the first

01:11:09.189 --> 01:11:12.229
competitions the snowbird competition outdoors

01:11:12.229 --> 01:11:17.569
on on the side of a building is on cbs so we

01:11:17.569 --> 01:11:21.130
started there and then we regressed into people

01:11:21.130 --> 01:11:23.710
dirtbag climbers saying oh i want to spend my

01:11:23.710 --> 01:11:26.510
money on a new pair of shoes Okay. I think that's

01:11:26.510 --> 01:11:29.609
like the most convincing argument for maybe like

01:11:29.609 --> 01:11:33.529
why Eurosport and Discovery Plus or whatever

01:11:33.529 --> 01:11:38.310
is normal and actually expected. Let's see, taking

01:11:38.310 --> 01:11:41.069
a look at time. I think we can move into some

01:11:41.069 --> 01:11:43.270
of the Discord and Instagram questions now. So

01:11:43.270 --> 01:11:45.970
first one from Omar H5, is the current setting

01:11:45.970 --> 01:11:48.010
of dynamic moves a good way to make climbing

01:11:48.010 --> 01:11:50.550
more mainstream? A root setting question. Hey,

01:11:50.710 --> 01:11:59.739
I... I think that creativity, variety, ingenuity

01:11:59.739 --> 01:12:04.039
are super, super important. So anybody that's

01:12:04.039 --> 01:12:07.739
trying to do something new or a version of something

01:12:07.739 --> 01:12:10.920
that creates exciting movement, I think is valuable.

01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:15.479
So dynamic movement has become a way to make

01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:19.520
very good athletes make mistakes. So it's a very

01:12:19.520 --> 01:12:23.079
good way to separate competition. So a paddle

01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:25.000
dyno, you're probably not going to flash it.

01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:28.300
Boom. I immediately don't have a tie. I'm winning,

01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:31.939
right? Great. No ties. Perfect. Um, some people

01:12:31.939 --> 01:12:33.960
won't get a paddle dyno. Some people won't get

01:12:33.960 --> 01:12:36.260
like, you know, something where you have to twist

01:12:36.260 --> 01:12:39.079
or push or, you know, bend or like land or coordinate.

01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:42.859
So I think it's important in that way is that

01:12:42.859 --> 01:12:46.020
it is a, it's an element of movement that we

01:12:46.020 --> 01:12:49.220
have always done indoors. We've had dyno comps

01:12:49.220 --> 01:12:53.720
since. I mean, we had dino competitions at World

01:12:53.720 --> 01:12:56.279
Cups as like a whole separate, there was a world

01:12:56.279 --> 01:13:01.739
record, right? They had basically a ruler with

01:13:01.739 --> 01:13:04.500
a slot and you could move, they would move the

01:13:04.500 --> 01:13:07.720
holdout on like ruler demarcations. And it was

01:13:07.720 --> 01:13:11.319
a diagonal, I think maybe 30 degrees. And it

01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:13.319
would move it out until you had a winner. And

01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:15.340
then they would try and be how far can you make

01:13:15.340 --> 01:13:18.479
a single dino and stick it. At World Cups? Yeah.

01:13:18.859 --> 01:13:24.329
Oh. You had no idea. Early 2000s. My friend,

01:13:24.369 --> 01:13:27.430
Darhan Alshambo, has been climbing, competing

01:13:27.430 --> 01:13:31.130
in Canada now as a gym owner in Edmonton. Won

01:13:31.130 --> 01:13:35.470
one of those. Was a good climber, but was so

01:13:35.470 --> 01:13:40.310
springy. So dino comps have been a part of climbing

01:13:40.310 --> 01:13:43.270
for longer than people might think, especially

01:13:43.270 --> 01:13:44.670
if they've only been climbing for five or

01:13:44.670 --> 01:13:48.020
years. They're like, oh, this feels new. Time

01:13:48.020 --> 01:13:51.140
is a flat circle when it comes to inventing,

01:13:51.140 --> 01:13:53.779
right? I like to draw kind of an interesting,

01:13:54.000 --> 01:13:56.640
what I think is someone who's non -musical, but

01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:00.000
there's only so many notes. But can you find

01:14:00.000 --> 01:14:03.380
a different way to combine those notes in a way

01:14:03.380 --> 01:14:06.199
that makes people think that this is new? So

01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:09.039
then we get musical genres and we get things

01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:10.680
that are interesting or things that we might

01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:13.640
kind of be thrown off by, things that might,

01:14:13.739 --> 01:14:17.000
you know. be offensive to our ears but we understand

01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:19.180
that some other people might like it so i think

01:14:19.180 --> 01:14:22.439
that climbing movement there is we can only do

01:14:22.439 --> 01:14:24.319
so much like we've created a bunch of climbing

01:14:24.319 --> 01:14:27.699
holds we've we've created what we think is physical

01:14:27.699 --> 01:14:29.619
movement and then someone says well what if you

01:14:29.619 --> 01:14:31.500
could just jump further like i can jump further

01:14:31.500 --> 01:14:34.779
but there's a limit to how far you can jump right

01:14:34.779 --> 01:14:36.560
so if you look at like the high jump world record

01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:39.460
the long jump world record it grows by like incremental

01:14:39.460 --> 01:14:43.829
amounts every every other year or two years,

01:14:43.930 --> 01:14:46.810
three years. So you can't just make the moves

01:14:46.810 --> 01:14:49.689
bigger. You can't just make the move smaller,

01:14:49.949 --> 01:14:51.609
the hold smaller, because that's not realistic.

01:14:52.449 --> 01:14:54.649
You can only make them so slopey or so slippery.

01:14:54.729 --> 01:14:56.449
So now we've got no text problems or people are

01:14:56.449 --> 01:14:58.409
just like, are putting water on their hands and

01:14:58.409 --> 01:15:00.489
shoes. Like immediately the climber's adapted.

01:15:00.689 --> 01:15:02.369
Perfect. Love it. People licking their hands,

01:15:02.449 --> 01:15:04.800
right? Like, how do I grab this no text? So I

01:15:04.800 --> 01:15:07.460
think that big dynamic movement has always been

01:15:07.460 --> 01:15:09.420
a part of climbing because it's showy, it's exciting,

01:15:09.539 --> 01:15:11.840
it's fun. It's like how I can jump further than

01:15:11.840 --> 01:15:16.460
you is a very base level. I can run faster than

01:15:16.460 --> 01:15:18.880
you. I can jump farther than you. I can pick

01:15:18.880 --> 01:15:20.800
up a heavier thing than you can. These are like

01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:24.060
core elements to physical movement. And I think

01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:26.300
that I'm here for it. I mean, you make a creative

01:15:26.300 --> 01:15:28.859
way. The dino comp at the Jackalope, I was like,

01:15:28.899 --> 01:15:30.899
I'm only going to give out money to somebody

01:15:30.899 --> 01:15:34.170
that sticks a 360 dino. And that's like, people

01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:36.390
like never have never tried that before. Like,

01:15:36.409 --> 01:15:37.750
I don't even know, like, what would that even

01:15:37.750 --> 01:15:40.229
look like? So I think it's fun to play with movement.

01:15:40.529 --> 01:15:43.789
And I think that there are elements in which

01:15:43.789 --> 01:15:47.329
if you are new to route setting that you should

01:15:47.329 --> 01:15:50.310
be careful for safety and like, don't set a big

01:15:50.310 --> 01:15:52.729
Donald over her, like a protruding volume perhaps,

01:15:52.890 --> 01:15:55.750
but be creative, right? Oh, the only way you're

01:15:55.750 --> 01:15:57.069
going to stick this is if you land your foot

01:15:57.069 --> 01:15:59.489
at the same time, or you get two hands out. So,

01:15:59.489 --> 01:16:02.880
you know, the. The version of sort of the paddle

01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:05.539
dyno is not that different from the version of

01:16:05.539 --> 01:16:08.479
like kind of a like a little big dynamic movement,

01:16:08.539 --> 01:16:10.319
little half match to a pinch that you wouldn't

01:16:10.319 --> 01:16:12.100
be able to hold if you didn't flip this one over.

01:16:12.279 --> 01:16:17.560
And I did that in 2003. So, yeah, I'm here for

01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:20.800
it. I think it's a great way to make people think

01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:23.399
about how to move their bodies, how to initiate

01:16:23.399 --> 01:16:28.420
power, how to control power. That's part of dynamic

01:16:28.420 --> 01:16:31.899
climbing. I think it's a core pillar of climbing

01:16:31.899 --> 01:16:35.960
movement. Makes sense. Next one from Coach Susan

01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:38.100
McGuire. I think this one was pretty interesting.

01:16:38.640 --> 01:16:40.939
Many years from now, what do you want to be remembered

01:16:40.939 --> 01:16:43.439
for since you've done so much in the climbing

01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:48.699
space? Man, that is an existential question.

01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:56.560
I think I would. like to be remembered for having

01:16:56.560 --> 01:17:04.159
grown helped to grow knowledge interest and visibility

01:17:04.159 --> 01:17:07.619
of the sport i think i would like to be have

01:17:07.619 --> 01:17:10.640
looked back and for myself as well and said i

01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:14.319
did what i could to keep climbing moving in the

01:17:14.319 --> 01:17:20.380
direction that will make it successful so it's

01:17:20.380 --> 01:17:22.319
it's a tricky question um i don't want to be

01:17:22.319 --> 01:17:25.720
famous right That's not what broadcasters do.

01:17:26.579 --> 01:17:31.060
But they get to have those moments where the

01:17:31.060 --> 01:17:33.260
timing of everything was right and you get to

01:17:33.260 --> 01:17:35.279
be a part of something and then take that and

01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:38.100
build on it and see an idea and say, hey, hey,

01:17:38.119 --> 01:17:40.180
remember when that worked? What if we tried that?

01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:43.680
And if that became the norm, I would love to

01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.939
be part of the movement that makes climbing media

01:17:46.939 --> 01:17:51.619
grow into a place where it's just kind of. almost

01:17:51.619 --> 01:17:53.479
taken for granted. Like, of course I could watch

01:17:53.479 --> 01:17:56.500
that on TV, right? Bam. The foundation has been

01:17:56.500 --> 01:18:00.579
laid. That's good to know. Okay. Next one from

01:18:00.579 --> 01:18:04.039
Sue Lamb888. What is your current relationship

01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:09.140
with CEC? So climbing Escalade Canada? That's

01:18:09.140 --> 01:18:11.199
good. Your French is excellent. Oh, thank you.

01:18:11.460 --> 01:18:17.319
Very good. Very good. I do not have a role with

01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:23.500
the CEC. So I am essentially a contractor for

01:18:23.500 --> 01:18:28.600
doing events. So we have toyed with different

01:18:28.600 --> 01:18:34.380
models of having a succession plan because I

01:18:34.380 --> 01:18:36.399
think that we should grow the base. It's such

01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:44.300
a funny thing to say. I should not be thinking

01:18:44.300 --> 01:18:47.020
I need to go to an event because no one else

01:18:47.020 --> 01:18:50.069
will do it. So I think we need to grow some talent

01:18:50.069 --> 01:18:53.329
in the space where other people feel comfortable

01:18:53.329 --> 01:18:56.569
taking on a broadcast. So we talked about sort

01:18:56.569 --> 01:18:59.109
of a succession plan, like a training ground

01:18:59.109 --> 01:19:02.130
almost of having different co -commentators come

01:19:02.130 --> 01:19:05.170
in for different events. And so they have an

01:19:05.170 --> 01:19:07.310
opportunity to be exposed to commentary and see

01:19:07.310 --> 01:19:10.369
what that looks like and do they like it. I think

01:19:10.369 --> 01:19:15.449
I'm always surprised by people that say, Um,

01:19:15.630 --> 01:19:18.949
no, they never want to try commentary. Um, because

01:19:18.949 --> 01:19:21.529
some people are pretty cavalier about being,

01:19:21.609 --> 01:19:23.050
you know, how hard could it be? And how could

01:19:23.050 --> 01:19:24.289
this, I'm like, would you want to try it? Like,

01:19:24.329 --> 01:19:26.569
Oh Lord, no, I don't want to try it. Um, I just

01:19:26.569 --> 01:19:29.109
want to have an opinion on it. Um, and people

01:19:29.109 --> 01:19:31.569
who've done it once and they say, ah, man, that's

01:19:31.569 --> 01:19:34.029
not for me. Like, because it is a lot of work

01:19:34.029 --> 01:19:36.090
and I won't, we won't get into necessarily, you

01:19:36.090 --> 01:19:38.930
know, all that side of it, but it's a huge amount

01:19:38.930 --> 01:19:40.750
of work and it's a big mental drain to do an

01:19:40.750 --> 01:19:42.390
event. And I'm like, you're always exhausted

01:19:42.390 --> 01:19:45.680
after doing a broadcast. And I. But I think that

01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:49.680
having a model where we grow is important. And

01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:51.520
I would like to get back to that maybe with the

01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:56.220
CEC and say, I would be happy to do mock competitions.

01:19:56.319 --> 01:19:58.880
So the first time I work with a new co -commentator,

01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:01.720
sometimes I'll say, go watch a competition with

01:20:01.720 --> 01:20:04.260
the sound off and record yourself. What would

01:20:04.260 --> 01:20:07.039
you say in that moment? Or I'll go and I've been

01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:08.659
on a comp. So I've done this with someone before.

01:20:08.739 --> 01:20:10.180
Canadian Nationals was their first time they'd

01:20:10.180 --> 01:20:13.180
ever done a broadcast. We just pulled up a World

01:20:13.180 --> 01:20:15.659
Cup that they hadn't watched. And I just think

01:20:15.659 --> 01:20:17.319
I picked one I hadn't watched. And we turned

01:20:17.319 --> 01:20:19.539
the sound off and we just we're like on other

01:20:19.539 --> 01:20:21.739
sides of the country from each other. And we

01:20:21.739 --> 01:20:23.659
just commentated and then we debriefed on it.

01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:25.859
And they're like, oh, my God, I froze here. And

01:20:25.859 --> 01:20:27.659
I said that I talked over you and then I threw

01:20:27.659 --> 01:20:30.079
it to you and you get people on broadcast and

01:20:30.079 --> 01:20:35.779
they just go. Yeah. Like I like teed you up to

01:20:35.779 --> 01:20:38.229
have an opinion and they're like. they just their

01:20:38.229 --> 01:20:41.369
brain goes into some sideways mode so i think

01:20:41.369 --> 01:20:43.949
that having we have a root center development

01:20:43.949 --> 01:20:45.649
program we have a coaching development program

01:20:45.649 --> 01:20:48.109
we have long -term athlete development i think

01:20:48.109 --> 01:20:51.409
that there's still room to have let's make sure

01:20:51.409 --> 01:20:55.189
that we have people available to broadcast a

01:20:55.189 --> 01:20:57.710
comp because if there's a world cup if i'm i

01:20:57.710 --> 01:20:59.569
get back into doing world cups which is a whole

01:20:59.569 --> 01:21:02.550
kind of other side thing but if i get back into

01:21:02.550 --> 01:21:04.270
doing world cups or the olympics since there

01:21:04.270 --> 01:21:07.279
is some competing event in Canada that we should

01:21:07.279 --> 01:21:09.539
be broadcasting, then it shouldn't be, well,

01:21:09.579 --> 01:21:11.279
I guess we won't broadcast it because we don't

01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:12.920
have anyone who's experienced enough to do it.

01:21:13.020 --> 01:21:16.300
So I think there's room to grow experience at

01:21:16.300 --> 01:21:18.420
that federation level, but I don't carry a role

01:21:18.420 --> 01:21:21.659
with them at all. That practice, like practice

01:21:21.659 --> 01:21:24.239
commentating World Cup is a good idea. I feel

01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:26.260
like that would have been helpful. I'm one of

01:21:26.260 --> 01:21:28.380
those people who like, I did it once and I was

01:21:28.380 --> 01:21:31.060
like, Ooh, this is not, this is not good for

01:21:31.060 --> 01:21:35.640
me. Yeah. And you can practice something and

01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:37.079
realize that you can practice and be good at

01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:38.680
it. And you might practice something and go,

01:21:38.779 --> 01:21:43.079
wow, that's just, it doesn't align with how I

01:21:43.079 --> 01:21:45.500
process information or how I like to speak or

01:21:45.500 --> 01:21:49.960
whatever it is. It's obviously, it's not easy.

01:21:52.220 --> 01:21:53.939
I'm not here to say it's the hardest job in the

01:21:53.939 --> 01:21:58.199
world. I'm not trying to play that card. It's

01:21:58.199 --> 01:22:00.199
like, oh, you couldn't possibly do broadcast

01:22:00.199 --> 01:22:02.859
commentary. But it is challenging and it is something

01:22:02.859 --> 01:22:05.640
you have to work quite hard at in order to deliver

01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:08.159
the product that you think is appropriate for

01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.260
the audience. Yeah, just like climbing. It's

01:22:10.260 --> 01:22:13.600
crazy how much the pressure makes a huge difference.

01:22:13.779 --> 01:22:17.859
Even people who are wildly chatty just before

01:22:17.859 --> 01:22:23.840
a broadcast starts and then just go. They just

01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:26.039
suddenly. don't know what to say or don't think

01:22:26.039 --> 01:22:27.800
they had something to say and the pressure really

01:22:27.800 --> 01:22:31.500
does go to go what's going to happen and um for

01:22:31.500 --> 01:22:36.439
whatever reason um the way my brain is wired

01:22:36.439 --> 01:22:41.199
that focuses the pressure of i sat down in the

01:22:41.199 --> 01:22:43.600
chair for the first world cup you know went through

01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:44.939
the whole thing i had the list all the thing

01:22:44.939 --> 01:22:46.680
headsets on the screen of the black and the african

01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:51.359
junior like five four i was like here we go like

01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:53.439
you know obviously i had some butterflies i was

01:22:53.439 --> 01:22:57.149
nervous But I wasn't nervous and, you know, shut

01:22:57.149 --> 01:22:59.670
down. Yeah. No, I think it's kind of like what

01:22:59.670 --> 01:23:02.930
you said earlier about you have to keep all these

01:23:02.930 --> 01:23:04.789
other things in mind in terms of like how people

01:23:04.789 --> 01:23:07.489
will react to what you're saying and like you're

01:23:07.489 --> 01:23:09.750
not allowed to curse and stuff like that. It

01:23:09.750 --> 01:23:12.409
all like adds up in your brain as like and then

01:23:12.409 --> 01:23:14.369
you just kind of freeze because you're like,

01:23:14.449 --> 01:23:16.069
I can't do this. I can't do this. I can't do

01:23:16.069 --> 01:23:18.829
this. And it is something that the way if we

01:23:18.829 --> 01:23:21.170
go back to practicing, it's something that you

01:23:21.170 --> 01:23:23.720
can practice because the. Like if you and I are

01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.420
doing a broadcast together, A, it helps if we

01:23:26.420 --> 01:23:29.579
know how each other speak. So then you know if

01:23:29.579 --> 01:23:32.180
I'm pausing because I want to keep talking or

01:23:32.180 --> 01:23:35.500
if I'm pausing to give you room to speak. And

01:23:35.500 --> 01:23:37.140
then we don't talk over each other. And then

01:23:37.140 --> 01:23:39.899
you kind of layer in this idea that while you're

01:23:39.899 --> 01:23:43.619
talking, I'm listening to you because I need

01:23:43.619 --> 01:23:45.680
to know what you're saying. And then, but I'm

01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:48.779
also watching the competition to decide what's

01:23:48.779 --> 01:23:51.439
happening next. And when you finish, I need to

01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:53.659
decide to take your idea and move on with it.

01:23:53.960 --> 01:23:57.579
Take your idea and end it. Let it sit on its

01:23:57.579 --> 01:24:01.359
own. Give it back to you to continue. Cut you

01:24:01.359 --> 01:24:04.060
off and go to the action. Take what you're saying

01:24:04.060 --> 01:24:07.640
and pull it into the action, et cetera, et cetera.

01:24:07.800 --> 01:24:10.279
Meanwhile, there might be a producer in your

01:24:10.279 --> 01:24:12.680
ear saying, hey, if Colin does this boulder in

01:24:12.680 --> 01:24:14.479
two more tries, he's going to win. And you're

01:24:14.479 --> 01:24:16.380
like, you can't say, uh -huh. And you can't like

01:24:16.380 --> 01:24:19.579
look. towards the sky you just have to pretend

01:24:19.579 --> 01:24:21.420
that there is no one talking in your ear while

01:24:21.420 --> 01:24:24.840
you're talking and listening and watching and

01:24:24.840 --> 01:24:27.739
doing all of these mental calculations so you

01:24:27.739 --> 01:24:31.500
can practice having a conversation with somebody

01:24:31.500 --> 01:24:36.119
with a purpose and kind of a background that

01:24:36.119 --> 01:24:38.420
you are basically talking to it's a conversation

01:24:38.420 --> 01:24:43.369
about climbing woven through a competition that

01:24:43.369 --> 01:24:45.310
has moments that need to be addressed. And then

01:24:45.310 --> 01:24:47.050
you have to remember someone's name and how to

01:24:47.050 --> 01:24:50.470
pronounce it. And whether or not this is like,

01:24:50.529 --> 01:24:52.369
you forget what boulder they're on. Like we're

01:24:52.369 --> 01:24:56.250
on boulder three? Question mark? Yeah. It's too

01:24:56.250 --> 01:24:58.390
much. We got to move on. It's too much. My brain

01:24:58.390 --> 01:25:01.529
is, it can't handle this. Okay, we'll do one

01:25:01.529 --> 01:25:05.949
last one from M. Durkee. And I don't really know

01:25:05.949 --> 01:25:07.850
the meaning of this, so you might have to give

01:25:07.850 --> 01:25:10.210
some context here. What's your golf handicap?

01:25:12.790 --> 01:25:16.869
Mark is a climber who has also turned to golf

01:25:16.869 --> 01:25:18.890
and I started golfing a few years ago. So it's

01:25:18.890 --> 01:25:21.630
people that we golf with. It's high. It's much

01:25:21.630 --> 01:25:23.510
higher than I would like it to be. Well, okay.

01:25:23.569 --> 01:25:25.810
What does that even mean? I don't golf. Never

01:25:25.810 --> 01:25:28.050
really watched golf. I know like the basics.

01:25:28.350 --> 01:25:33.149
So golf is all golf courses are par is 71 or

01:25:33.149 --> 01:25:38.350
72. So your handicap is your average number of

01:25:38.350 --> 01:25:43.109
strokes over par. So if you're new to golf, you're

01:25:43.109 --> 01:25:44.569
going to you're going to shoot in the hundreds.

01:25:44.670 --> 01:25:47.229
You're going to be over 100. So your your handicap

01:25:47.229 --> 01:25:53.329
is like 32, 33, 34. Like it's the number of like

01:25:53.329 --> 01:25:57.329
shots between par and what you scored on the

01:25:57.329 --> 01:25:59.630
golf course that round. Yeah. So my golf game

01:25:59.630 --> 01:26:01.069
is not where I would like it to be. Golf and

01:26:01.069 --> 01:26:02.829
climbing are like weirdly in opposition of each

01:26:02.829 --> 01:26:04.489
other because they both take quite a lot of time.

01:26:05.029 --> 01:26:07.689
Any like does anything transfer you feel like?

01:26:08.289 --> 01:26:11.229
I mean. In all seriousness, yeah, a few things.

01:26:12.970 --> 01:26:17.630
It's a very complex movement. The golf swing

01:26:17.630 --> 01:26:20.850
is one of the hardest things that anybody that's

01:26:20.850 --> 01:26:22.229
listening to this play golf is nodding right

01:26:22.229 --> 01:26:23.829
now. They're like, heck yeah, golf swing is one

01:26:23.829 --> 01:26:25.270
of the hardest things you could do. And when

01:26:25.270 --> 01:26:26.930
I started playing golf, I was like, the ball

01:26:26.930 --> 01:26:29.189
doesn't move. Are you kidding me? Like I play

01:26:29.189 --> 01:26:31.949
tennis, like I played squash, I played ping pong.

01:26:31.989 --> 01:26:33.430
I've done all these things where the ball is

01:26:33.430 --> 01:26:35.390
moving and you still have to hit it. So the ball

01:26:35.390 --> 01:26:37.109
is just sitting there all the time. How hard

01:26:37.109 --> 01:26:39.329
could it possibly be? It's really hard. A golf

01:26:39.329 --> 01:26:44.229
swing is super complex. And you have to turn

01:26:44.229 --> 01:26:47.010
it into instinctual learned movements. You have

01:26:47.010 --> 01:26:51.369
to have sort of wired parts of your brain that

01:26:51.369 --> 01:26:54.850
have a repertoire that just have a natural. You

01:26:54.850 --> 01:26:56.689
kind of fall into this shot means this, this

01:26:56.689 --> 01:26:58.350
means that, do this, do this, do this, do this.

01:26:58.489 --> 01:27:00.850
If you try to think about every piece of each

01:27:00.850 --> 01:27:04.229
muscle group, every time you climb, you would

01:27:04.229 --> 01:27:06.250
lose your mind and you'd stumble and trip. If

01:27:06.250 --> 01:27:07.529
you tried to think about everything it takes

01:27:07.529 --> 01:27:11.810
to walk or jump or go up or downstairs, you would

01:27:11.810 --> 01:27:14.649
lose your mind. So these are things that are

01:27:14.649 --> 01:27:17.289
so natural movement -based that we take them

01:27:17.289 --> 01:27:20.470
all for granted. So easy climbing, good climbers

01:27:20.470 --> 01:27:22.930
take for granted. New climbers take nothing for

01:27:22.930 --> 01:27:25.020
granted. New climbers are... are thinking all

01:27:25.020 --> 01:27:27.060
the time of what do you mean i need to move my

01:27:27.060 --> 01:27:29.300
like three of my limbs at the same time like

01:27:29.300 --> 01:27:32.119
i just want to go left left right right and this

01:27:32.119 --> 01:27:33.899
game is really hard and i'm pumped and i'm doing

01:27:33.899 --> 01:27:35.359
pull -ups you're like no no you want to chain

01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:39.960
them together right so you have to learn to not

01:27:39.960 --> 01:27:43.279
think about how to initiate a pull while at the

01:27:43.279 --> 01:27:45.279
same time twisting turning reaching letting go

01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:47.380
how long to pull for how much to pull how much

01:27:47.380 --> 01:27:50.420
to push etc etc and a golf swing you just have

01:27:50.420 --> 01:27:53.380
to stand over the ball and go just come through

01:27:53.380 --> 01:27:55.479
and do your natural swing motion so in terms

01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:58.220
of physical literacy in terms of like knowledge

01:27:58.220 --> 01:28:01.000
of movement um there's tons and tons and tons

01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:03.859
of parallels and it's wildly frustrating and

01:28:03.859 --> 01:28:05.619
anybody that's projected anything for more than

01:28:05.619 --> 01:28:08.039
a month and also frustrating is to just why can't

01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:11.340
i do this one thing um golf is wildly frustrating

01:28:11.340 --> 01:28:13.979
why can't i just do this one thing slightly better

01:28:13.979 --> 01:28:17.020
yeah the frustration um they're best friends

01:28:17.020 --> 01:28:20.300
no i get that and the golf stick is really long

01:28:20.300 --> 01:28:23.439
so it's just The margin of error is very small

01:28:23.439 --> 01:28:26.500
because it's just so far away from you. And it's

01:28:26.500 --> 01:28:28.520
this big. And if you get it too high or too low

01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:30.579
or too in or too out, you've missed. Like the

01:28:30.579 --> 01:28:33.859
sweet spot on the head of a golf club is like

01:28:33.859 --> 01:28:37.159
the size of a golf ball. Yeah. I mean, I missed

01:28:37.159 --> 01:28:40.300
the entire ball anyway. So I'm not at that point

01:28:40.300 --> 01:28:42.680
yet. You and most people who try for the first

01:28:42.680 --> 01:28:44.539
time. And if you walked into a climbing gym and

01:28:44.539 --> 01:28:45.659
I said, oh, the first thing you need to do is

01:28:45.659 --> 01:28:49.359
hit this dino, you would miss. You need to learn

01:28:49.359 --> 01:28:50.840
the movement pattern. You need to learn what's

01:28:50.840 --> 01:28:52.659
important. You need to learn how to anchor and

01:28:52.659 --> 01:28:55.279
how to have balance and kind of push -pull and

01:28:55.279 --> 01:28:58.720
all those sorts of things. There are interesting

01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:02.779
similarities when it comes to ability to move

01:29:02.779 --> 01:29:05.840
in a certain way. Okay, cool. Well, I think that

01:29:05.840 --> 01:29:09.000
is all the questions I had. Any last -minute

01:29:09.000 --> 01:29:11.260
words of wisdom or things you really got to get

01:29:11.260 --> 01:29:13.899
out there? Two things, if you'll allow me, the

01:29:13.899 --> 01:29:19.739
platform. The first one is be a fan. Be a fan

01:29:19.739 --> 01:29:23.140
of the sport that you participate in. Be willing

01:29:23.140 --> 01:29:27.979
to promote other people's success. Be willing

01:29:27.979 --> 01:29:31.880
to promote the sport's success as a whole. Be

01:29:31.880 --> 01:29:34.800
willing to give people grace who are also doing

01:29:34.800 --> 01:29:37.920
that. Be willing to give people grace to enjoy

01:29:37.920 --> 01:29:39.600
the sport at the level that they want to enjoy

01:29:39.600 --> 01:29:45.140
it at. I coach people who have... been climbing

01:29:45.140 --> 01:29:47.659
at v5 for a decade and never been happier and

01:29:47.659 --> 01:29:49.340
just want to learn to be a little bit more effective

01:29:49.340 --> 01:29:53.819
or do something different um and it's it's important

01:29:53.819 --> 01:29:57.899
that we continue to create a space even in competition

01:29:57.899 --> 01:30:01.220
that allows everyone to consume it and enjoy

01:30:01.220 --> 01:30:03.899
it at a level of understanding that they think

01:30:03.899 --> 01:30:07.840
is cool or fun and if they want to you know buy

01:30:08.909 --> 01:30:10.329
You know, we don't do this in climbing, right?

01:30:10.449 --> 01:30:11.710
You don't, I don't know how many people have

01:30:11.710 --> 01:30:13.489
a poster of their favorite climber up on their

01:30:13.489 --> 01:30:15.149
wall. But when I was skateboarding as a kid,

01:30:15.250 --> 01:30:18.029
I had Tony Hawk posters. Like I had posters everywhere.

01:30:18.329 --> 01:30:21.750
You know, I wore shirts. Like I consumed, I was

01:30:21.750 --> 01:30:24.210
a fan of the athletes that did the sport that

01:30:24.210 --> 01:30:26.789
I was trying to be good at. I read magazines

01:30:26.789 --> 01:30:29.050
that did all these things. And I think climbing.

01:30:29.850 --> 01:30:33.170
is dangerously close to i do it too so you know

01:30:33.170 --> 01:30:35.250
they're not like why would i be that infatuated

01:30:35.250 --> 01:30:36.829
with someone that's better than me at this thing

01:30:36.829 --> 01:30:39.270
or i don't compete so why would i watch climbing

01:30:39.270 --> 01:30:41.270
you might learn something about how you can move

01:30:41.270 --> 01:30:42.810
you might see something that will help you on

01:30:42.810 --> 01:30:45.850
your project outside so i think be a fan of the

01:30:45.850 --> 01:30:48.390
sport that you participate in um and just be

01:30:48.390 --> 01:30:52.729
open and be like accepting of the fact that lots

01:30:52.729 --> 01:30:54.489
of people like to do the sport in a different

01:30:54.489 --> 01:30:58.689
way and for some of us um competing is inherent

01:30:58.689 --> 01:31:02.109
in who we are and wanting to share that and wanting

01:31:02.109 --> 01:31:04.189
to create a platform where competition can grow

01:31:04.189 --> 01:31:07.590
and flourish is really, really important. And

01:31:07.590 --> 01:31:10.350
I think allow that to grow and maybe try it out.

01:31:10.390 --> 01:31:12.189
If you don't watch competitions, watch a competition

01:31:12.189 --> 01:31:14.289
and just say, man, that's pretty cool. That was

01:31:14.289 --> 01:31:16.369
wild. So I think that's the, that's something

01:31:16.369 --> 01:31:19.149
that I always want to tell people. And then the

01:31:19.149 --> 01:31:23.310
other thing is that if you, it's my, it's always

01:31:23.310 --> 01:31:25.250
my goal to try and provide knowledge. I like

01:31:25.250 --> 01:31:27.989
to just. transmit knowledge about climbing i'm

01:31:27.989 --> 01:31:30.310
a coach at heart and i take that mindset into

01:31:30.310 --> 01:31:34.289
broadcasting so if you watch a broadcast where

01:31:34.289 --> 01:31:37.390
someone is explaining something at a level that

01:31:37.390 --> 01:31:40.890
you already know appreciate that that commentator

01:31:40.890 --> 01:31:45.189
or that person or that color analyst is is trying

01:31:45.189 --> 01:31:49.449
to share knowledge so that someone might grow

01:31:49.449 --> 01:31:52.369
into the sport even more and find a way to appreciate

01:31:52.369 --> 01:31:56.420
it even more so there's this wonderful balance

01:31:56.420 --> 01:31:59.180
where we think, we don't really know how hard

01:31:59.180 --> 01:32:02.699
World Cup finals boulders are. They don't grade

01:32:02.699 --> 01:32:05.460
them. And they're not V14, right? That's just,

01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:07.960
you can't climb V14 in four minutes. So sometimes

01:32:07.960 --> 01:32:09.920
the boulders are not physically, they're not

01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:12.640
gradably that difficult. It's just all the other

01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:14.720
factors that smashed it together. So we kind

01:32:14.720 --> 01:32:15.939
of have this like, I don't know, how hard is

01:32:15.939 --> 01:32:17.960
it really? Like, could I do a World Cup semifinal

01:32:17.960 --> 01:32:22.560
boulder? Like, you could not. Step one. Being

01:32:22.560 --> 01:32:25.539
able to impart that knowledge for me is really

01:32:25.539 --> 01:32:27.220
important. And that comes down to being able

01:32:27.220 --> 01:32:30.060
to break down movement in a way that even if

01:32:30.060 --> 01:32:31.819
you've been climbing for a decade, maybe you

01:32:31.819 --> 01:32:34.539
didn't think about timing in that way. So I've

01:32:34.539 --> 01:32:37.020
coached people who've been climbing for 10 years

01:32:37.020 --> 01:32:40.079
who climb V8, V9, V10. And there's something

01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:43.000
to be learned at every level about how people

01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:46.979
move. So maybe watch with an open mind because

01:32:46.979 --> 01:32:50.609
the broadcaster is trying to give you some. deeper

01:32:50.609 --> 01:32:53.449
knowledge about movement why something's difficult

01:32:53.449 --> 01:32:57.310
why somebody that is a previous world cup you

01:32:57.310 --> 01:32:59.710
know gold medalist is falling off a boulder that

01:32:59.710 --> 01:33:03.289
looks like it should be very doable and don't

01:33:03.289 --> 01:33:05.050
just think that they're talking below you or

01:33:05.050 --> 01:33:06.270
they're talking to people who've never watched

01:33:06.270 --> 01:33:08.430
before i think there's something to learn and

01:33:08.430 --> 01:33:11.289
that's why we have coaches to to be able to learn

01:33:11.289 --> 01:33:15.300
and this is my platform to be able to help Get

01:33:15.300 --> 01:33:17.560
super high level climbing or national level climbing

01:33:17.560 --> 01:33:20.119
or festival level climbing and get that information

01:33:20.119 --> 01:33:22.619
over to you and kind of help you understand why

01:33:22.619 --> 01:33:25.180
it's exciting and why it's important. Great words

01:33:25.180 --> 01:33:28.439
of wisdom to end on. But actually, OK, also really

01:33:28.439 --> 01:33:32.880
quick. I just had a random thought. I wish climbing

01:33:32.880 --> 01:33:35.840
gyms showcased competition climbing a bit more

01:33:35.840 --> 01:33:40.460
in the gym. We can't spend too much time diving

01:33:40.460 --> 01:33:42.399
into this, but I just feel like that would help

01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:45.560
with the whole connecting with competition climbing

01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:48.520
or seeing a move on TV and being like, I could

01:33:48.520 --> 01:33:50.260
probably do that or it looks easier or something

01:33:50.260 --> 01:33:52.840
like that. Watch parties, right? Yeah. Our gym

01:33:52.840 --> 01:33:55.960
has a TV up behind the desk and when the World

01:33:55.960 --> 01:33:57.500
Cup's on, they'll just show replays that go on

01:33:57.500 --> 01:33:59.220
YouTube. It's funny every now and then I'm in

01:33:59.220 --> 01:34:01.520
the gym and I'm like, hey, that's me. And people

01:34:01.520 --> 01:34:03.760
are like, wait a minute, that's you? That guy

01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:06.569
climbs at my gym? Like, Oh, maybe, you know,

01:34:06.569 --> 01:34:08.329
so you get to have those moments. You're like,

01:34:08.390 --> 01:34:12.170
Oh, I've seen that person that I just saw at,

01:34:12.229 --> 01:34:14.109
you know, competing at us nationals. They climb

01:34:14.109 --> 01:34:18.289
in my gym or I watched, um, like a, a para world

01:34:18.289 --> 01:34:21.010
cup. And I'm like, Oh, you know, um, maybe I've

01:34:21.010 --> 01:34:23.630
seen adaptive climbers in my gym. Like, are we

01:34:23.630 --> 01:34:27.229
doing, you know, more to, to competitions? Awesome.

01:34:27.350 --> 01:34:29.109
Like, wait a minute. Like, this is totally like,

01:34:29.170 --> 01:34:30.869
I didn't know that that was that available. So

01:34:30.869 --> 01:34:33.779
yeah, watch parties. Especially if it's someone

01:34:33.779 --> 01:34:38.100
locally from you that's competing. And I love

01:34:38.100 --> 01:34:40.619
that idea. Or just have the TV up. So yeah, I

01:34:40.619 --> 01:34:42.399
think there's lots of things that gyms can do

01:34:42.399 --> 01:34:45.560
to make it exciting. Yeah, I can't believe it's

01:34:45.560 --> 01:34:47.720
just not more common now that I think about it.

01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:51.140
Absolutely. I'm with you. I fully support that

01:34:51.140 --> 01:34:53.199
idea. I think it's great. Well, on that note,

01:34:53.319 --> 01:34:56.899
I think we're a little bit over time. But thank

01:34:56.899 --> 01:34:59.640
you so much for joining me today. Anything you

01:34:59.640 --> 01:35:01.340
want to shout out or let people know where they

01:35:01.340 --> 01:35:04.539
can find you? Um, I'm on Instagram as MC Pete

01:35:04.539 --> 01:35:06.680
Woods and I try and post, um, you will see pictures

01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:08.819
of my cats. So that's also part of the deal.

01:35:08.880 --> 01:35:11.000
Um, but I, I try and post a lot of events that

01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:13.619
I'm at, um, and try and promote climbing. Um,

01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:16.779
so MC Pete was also my website. So if you're

01:35:16.779 --> 01:35:18.359
curious about other things that I've done, uh,

01:35:18.500 --> 01:35:21.060
you can go to mcpwoods .ca. Um, I've kind of

01:35:21.060 --> 01:35:23.060
got a little bit of background. Um, and if you

01:35:23.060 --> 01:35:25.539
want me to come coach in your city, I'm, I also

01:35:25.539 --> 01:35:27.699
coach, I teach some pretty interesting programs.

01:35:27.739 --> 01:35:29.619
So I'm happy to go. That's part of the things

01:35:29.619 --> 01:35:32.229
that I do to stay involved in climbing. And if

01:35:32.229 --> 01:35:34.989
you see an event that I'm promoting, just pass

01:35:34.989 --> 01:35:36.909
it around, you know, spread the word because

01:35:36.909 --> 01:35:41.130
the growth, being able to show media connection

01:35:41.130 --> 01:35:43.149
is super important. You know, even like the Pop

01:35:43.149 --> 01:35:44.829
Rock Masters, just go. If you're in California,

01:35:45.050 --> 01:35:47.609
go to Huntington Beach and watch it. You know,

01:35:47.609 --> 01:35:49.850
follow along on Instagram and be like, and get

01:35:49.850 --> 01:35:51.949
excited about the fact that these athletes are

01:35:51.949 --> 01:35:56.130
coming to California to clap. That's what competition

01:35:56.130 --> 01:35:58.229
should do for you. When it's coming near you,

01:35:58.310 --> 01:36:00.609
you should be like. Oh, I could go watch that.

01:36:00.850 --> 01:36:03.350
Oh, I'm too far away. I can watch it on, on a

01:36:03.350 --> 01:36:05.729
broadcast. Absolutely. I mean, awesome. Well,

01:36:05.770 --> 01:36:07.510
thank you again. And it was amazing to talk to

01:36:07.510 --> 01:36:09.449
you. It was great. Thanks for the really good

01:36:09.449 --> 01:36:11.189
questions. Good conversation. I had a blast.

01:36:11.289 --> 01:36:14.310
So I appreciate you, you know, putting a podcast

01:36:14.310 --> 01:36:16.989
like this together, which is, I mean, I love

01:36:16.989 --> 01:36:18.470
the name. The first time I saw it, I was just

01:36:18.470 --> 01:36:20.630
to finish off. I love the name because that's

01:36:20.630 --> 01:36:23.560
been this awesome real climbing. People back

01:36:23.560 --> 01:36:25.399
in the 80s were like, sport climbing is neither,

01:36:25.600 --> 01:36:27.460
right? It was tri -climbing or nothing. And bouldering

01:36:27.460 --> 01:36:29.340
is just playing. So we've always had these sort

01:36:29.340 --> 01:36:32.319
of expressions. And there are people that think

01:36:32.319 --> 01:36:34.220
that competition in plastic climbing is not real

01:36:34.220 --> 01:36:36.319
climbing. And it absolutely is. So I love that

01:36:36.319 --> 01:36:39.159
you've created this platform for people to come

01:36:39.159 --> 01:36:41.380
and share their passion. And there's so many

01:36:41.380 --> 01:36:43.079
places that it touches. And anybody that climbs

01:36:43.079 --> 01:36:47.760
in a gym consumes plastic. It's a blast. So I

01:36:47.760 --> 01:36:49.439
appreciate it. And I had a great time. Yeah,

01:36:49.460 --> 01:36:52.380
thank you. Thank you so much for making it to

01:36:52.380 --> 01:36:54.739
the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like

01:36:54.739 --> 01:36:56.899
and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you

01:36:56.899 --> 01:37:00.000
are a super big climber. If you're listening

01:37:00.000 --> 01:37:02.560
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:37:02.560 --> 01:37:05.520
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:37:05.520 --> 01:37:08.659
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:37:08.659 --> 01:37:11.119
in the description. Thanks again for listening.