23: Sebastian Depke, Paraclimbing Commission Chair

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I mean, what am I doing this for?

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If I will end up, I don't know, in a wheelchair

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being severely disabled anyway.

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Also one thing which I think got most of the controversy

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and tears and drama was the introduction

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of minimum impairment criteria.

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I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters of altitude

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to climb up with a bike.

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We are para climbers.

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We're not searching for problems.

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We are searching for solutions.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing

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podcast.

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I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce

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my guest, Sebastian Depke.

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Sebastian is a German para climber.

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He is also the chair of the Para Climbing Commission,

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and he worked on filing the application

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to get climbing into the Paralympics for LA 2028,

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which only recently got approved.

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In this episode, we'll learn about his journey

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accepting that his disease would affect his body

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and climbing forever, what the process was

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like for getting climbing into the Paralympics,

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the drama behind the para climbing classification

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process, and we talk about his harrowing 1,000 kilometer

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journey to the Innsbruck World Cup on just a solar hand bike.

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Hope you enjoy this episode with Sebastian.

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How are you doing today?

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I'm good.

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Thank you.

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I'm really good.

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We'll get into it a bit more later,

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but are you preparing for another solar bike journey,

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or are you going to take that to Paris, the Olympics?

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At the moment, I'm riding between Innsbruck,

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the World Cup, and Villars, the Europe Championships.

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And yes, I went to Innsbruck with the solar bike.

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And from Innsbruck to my parents' home in Germany,

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I did the second part of the solar bike trip.

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So I've got a lot of things to organize now,

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a lot of things to repair.

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And I will start the journey towards Villar mid of August.

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When is Villar coming up?

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Villar is the European Championships.

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It's all disciplines together.

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So it's para climbing.

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It's lead, boulder, speed, all together in Villar one week,

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which started with para climbing.

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And we are on the 24th and 25th of August.

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OK, that'll be exciting.

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Good luck there.

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Thank you.

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So let's get right into it.

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For those who don't know, how and when

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did you get into climbing?

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I started climbing in 1998.

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So that's 26 years now ago.

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Got into it through some friends with auto climbing,

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and then got hooked immediately.

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And at that time, there weren't that many gyms.

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So my climbing started mostly with auto climbing.

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And that's where still my heart beats most for some to say.

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It's auto climbing for sure.

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And over the years, I got more and more into it.

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And with starting my studies at the age of 19, 20,

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also with being able to drive my own car at the age of 18,

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that took off a lot.

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And from that moment on, I really got more and more serious

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into climbing.

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Wow, 28 years ago.

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Or 26 years ago?

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Yeah, 26 years.

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Yeah, that's almost as long as I've been alive.

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So that's really cool.

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And how long have you been competing in the IFSC?

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I'm competing since 2017.

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That's when I learned to know that it actually exists.

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I started climbing at the age of 13 in 1998.

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And at those times, I still had the first symptoms

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of my disease, which is called ankylosing spondylitis.

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It started more or less at the same moment.

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It's a rheumatic disease where inflammations lead

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to the fusion of, in my case, of the whole backbone and my hips.

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So I just have my arms and my shoulders are also limited,

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and my knees and my ankles for climbing.

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That's all what's left for me.

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But I have a whole climbing career

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before being severely disabled.

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Oh, actually I didn't know that.

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Yeah, so there's still a Sebastian climbing

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without being severely impaired.

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It's also the time where I did lots of other things.

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So I saw lots of different parts of climbing,

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including doing first ascent, bolting routes,

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replacing old gear on routes, multi-pitch, alpine,

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sport climbing.

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So yeah, also aid climbing, big wall.

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Also put my nose into that for a very short moment.

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So yes, so I've seen lots of different stuff.

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And now, so to say, plastic climbing

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is one of the least exciting, or let's say,

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the least adventurous part of my climbing work that I do.

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Well, it's big fun.

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And I still do stuff like, well, I

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don't need climbing anymore for safety reasons.

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But I still do have, if I have to occasion, for example,

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I still don't multi-pitch, for example.

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And I also bolt new routes from time to time.

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OK, yeah, so I was going to ask, was most of that outdoor stuff

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before the disability started to kick in?

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Or do you still do bolting and, I guess,

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probably no big wall stuff?

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Well, a big wall, not anymore.

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It was just one try once.

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But multi-pitch, yeah, if I have the occasion for something,

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yes, and dreams and projects.

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Also with other part-timers, there's

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a funny video of Urko, the guy from Team Spain

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with leg amputation.

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And I, we tried together in the Malas de Rigos,

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that's a big sandstone conglomerate towers here

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in Spain, tried to get on top of those really interesting towers.

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And we also did more than just that, what's shown in the video.

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So from time to time, I get the occasion

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to do something like that.

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And for example, after the World Cup in Salt Lake,

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I went with a teammate, Kevin, who went together to Red Rocks

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and did some multi-pitch there.

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And yeah, so I tried to combine things.

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I don't see any sense in just flying halfway around the world

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to just climb two or maybe three routes,

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that you don't even climb to the top, most likely, on plastic,

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and then fly back home again.

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Yeah, makes sense.

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That's not what's into my idea of climbing, so to say.

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Once I'm there, I want to see more.

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I want to do more.

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I hope I can combine it in the future as well,

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and so to keep up this combining things a bit.

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So to be honest, I don't climb that much on plastic.

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I live in Spain.

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I'm competing for a team journal, but I live in Spain.

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And I don't have good gym, let's say, possibilities here,

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which are nearby and which fit to my needs, not at all.

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I just can do bouldering here.

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And for safety reasons, I just do low traverses.

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So if I go bouldering, you just find me on a spray wall

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doing max power training.

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Nothing else like that.

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And to be honest, yeah, it's good for your maximum power,

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but it's not always fun.

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If I want to really have fun or also, for example,

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if I want to do that kind of maximum power training,

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I also can go outdoors and project some hard routes.

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That's basically the same.

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You can also do bouldering on top rope on a hard project.

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That's, in my opinion, mostly a similar effect.

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So how's the accessibility between the gym

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versus going outside?

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Because I would imagine it's sometimes pretty hard

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to get to the crags or the boulders outside,

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depending on what the trails are like.

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Yeah, sure.

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For example, if I try to do something like multi-pitch

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or something like that, that's where mostly the approaches are

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really, really hard.

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There we have to select by what's the easiest one.

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So short approach and not scrambling too many kilometers

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through loose rock sections or getting up

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loose rock fields or something like that, that's terrain

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which is almost impossible to me.

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But if it's a normal sport climbing crag,

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which is accessible, so why not?

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I don't see it that much as a big thing for me,

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but I've got to say I'm not relying on a wheelchair,

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for example.

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In that case, it would be totally different stories.

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But if I see what my friends are doing

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who are in a wheelchair, they get even to those crags

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with aid of friends and they don't care.

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We are power climbers.

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We're not searching for problems.

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We are searching for solutions.

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That's a good statement, a good way to put it.

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So how old were you when you started to develop?

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Ikylosing spondylitis.

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Ikylosing spondylitis.

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Yeah, how old were you when that started?

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It started at the age of 13.

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So you might say, wow, that's pretty young

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for rheumatic disease.

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And that's correct, but it's a specific form of rheumatism.

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By the way, it's the second most frequent one

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right after rheumatic arthritis.

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And here in northern Europe, it affects more or less

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almost 0.5% of the population.

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So that's 1 in 200.

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And those are just the ones who get diagnosed.

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That means there is the assumption

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that there are way more cases that did not get a diagnosis

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because their symptoms are just so low that you

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don't get diagnosed.

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So it starts with light pain, maybe just in your lower back,

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which can be everything.

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And sometimes it's also in the hips, for example.

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And as it's a progressive disease,

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it does not go in a constant sort of level of pain.

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It just comes and goes.

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And if you have an active time with these rheumatic effects,

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then it's maybe just a few days or a week or two

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where you have got pain, and then it disappears completely.

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And well, I mean, if it's in the beginning,

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you think, well, it came on its own.

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It went on its own.

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So it shouldn't be that serious, no?

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But then it comes back again, and there's a moment

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where it leaves something.

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And then you don't go back to level zero again.

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You're slightly built up over time, more and more impairment.

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And that's what also happened to me.

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And I got diagnosed at the age of 21, by the way.

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So that means eight years after having the first symptoms.

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And you might think, wow, that's a long time.

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But this is actually more or less average.

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So in Europe, the statistics say,

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I think it's seven years in between the first symptoms

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and the final diagnosis, still on average in these days.

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Because it starts slow, and it's hard to diagnose.

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And especially those symptoms in the very beginning,

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that can be everything.

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And it's a hard diagnosis, and you really

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have to be sure from a doctor's perspective

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on who you're giving this label, so to say.

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And also, there are certain criteria you have to fulfill.

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And for example, if you are, as a patient,

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not the one who just says it the way it's written in the doctor's

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book, then maybe you don't get there,

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or get there as easy as that.

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And especially, there is another crux,

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which is this time dependency in between you

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are having pain right now and when you get to the doctor.

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Because let's say you have serious pain,

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and you're like, oh, I need to go to the doctor.

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You get an appointment next week.

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And you go to the doctor, and your pain is gone.

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Yeah, that's happened to me a bunch.

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OK, and this happens quite often to people

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with these form of diseases.

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And if you do that multiple times at the same doctor,

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he will most likely say your problem is not

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in your back or in your hips.

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It's maybe right behind your eyes

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and in between your ears.

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Mm, right.

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Right?

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So and that happens.

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I know people with ankylosing spondylitis

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who are coming out of the psychiatry

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and who were supposed to be like some where it was proposed.

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There is some psychosomatic background

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of this condition and not the rheumatic one.

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So there are people who get crossovers,

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let's say, from the psychiatry part

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to the rheumatic department of the medicine, which sounds

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crazy.

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But I know multiple people where that happened to.

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And trust me, if you experience something like that,

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you have really trust issues in the medical system.

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And I totally understand that.

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Yeah, when you finally, I guess, got your diagnosis,

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was that kind of a relief for you then?

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Well, it was not so easy to get the diagnosis.

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For me, that meant running half a year from doctor to doctor.

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And one said, yeah, it's that.

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Or the next one said, no, look at the picture.

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Can be anything.

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Just he did too much sport in the wrong way, whatever.

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And the next one said, oh, maybe, yeah,

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but look at that.

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And I've got the next one to the next one to the next one.

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And I had big question marks.

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And getting such a label is hard.

00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:43,680
It's really hard.

00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,360
So for me, it was like falling into a black hole.

00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,720
And at the time, I was studying chemistry

00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,880
and being clinging a lot.

00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,480
And it was like, well, I was standing in the chemistry lab

00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,760
in the university.

00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,160
And I was asking myself, what am I actually doing here?

00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,160
Does it make actually sense?

00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,520
What's my life now going to?

00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,040
I've got a progressive disease which cannot be healed.

00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280
Is this the end now?

00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,800
What am I doing this for if I will end up, I don't know,

00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,240
in a wheelchair being severely disabled anyway?

00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,920
Because you get told the consequence is

00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,520
quite drastic and clear.

00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,200
And everyone can Google and see what that means.

00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,600
And it doesn't mean that you have

00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,400
to get the hardest form of it.

00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,040
But I mean, Dr. Thau, so honest to you.

00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,200
I guess I just assumed that a lot of para climbers

00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,040
started out climbing with their disability or impairment.

00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,120
And so I'm kind of wondering what that process was for you

00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,040
to realize that you got this diagnosis.

00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:55,680
And then, I don't know, I guess, grieve like climbing

00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,280
as you knew it?

00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,720
First of all, just knowing the name for the thing that you

00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,360
have does change your climbing.

00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,160
I mean, you just know, OK, now it has a name.

00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,040
But it's still your life is still,

00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:15,000
like the pain is not less or not more just knowing that,

00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,720
at least in my case.

00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,480
The psychological part, yeah, that

00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,880
was a big thing for the moment.

00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,720
And for me, it was like climbing always

00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,920
was this good moment where I know it's good for my body,

00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,960
maintain flexibility, strength, and also just having fun.

00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,680
It's so important.

00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,520
And that's something which helped me along

00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,320
or through a lot of dark hours.

00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:53,480
So it was a way to help me through this process a lot.

00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,920
And also because they say the most important part of therapy

00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000
is like stay flexible, stay flexible, stay flexible.

00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,240
So do sport, do sport, and do sports.

00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,240
And climbing is perfect therapy for that.

00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,080
And so it was a good way to maintain my body

00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,200
in a good shape.

00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,680
And nevertheless, I had a really severe form

00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,000
which developed down.

00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,760
So I even stopped climbing.

00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,160
I was just able to walk with crutches for two years.

00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,480
And then there was a time when I didn't climb for a moment.

00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,560
But then I even went back with the crutches to the rock

00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,480
and started climbing again.

00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,760
And after two years, it took me half a year

00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,000
to get away from the crutches.

00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,120
So my pain level dropped.

00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,320
And I had from that moment on no active inflammations anymore

00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:52,880
in my body.

00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,920
And since then, it also didn't higher back up, so to say.

00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:03,400
So I'm officially in a stable state, which is also

00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,960
which gives me actually the capability of doing

00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,120
what I do now.

00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,160
Because doing sports in a too hard way

00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,520
with ankylosing spondylitis might trigger new inflammations.

00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,120
So you're always riding on that tiny edge of like doing,

00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,120
I've got to do something to stay in shape,

00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,120
to stay flexible, to stay strong.

00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,640
But if I go too far, I trigger the next big inflammation.

00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,000
And then I might break down.

00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,920
So it's like a really, really wide ride.

00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,520
You have to manage that.

00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,800
So do you ever have to hold back then

00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,240
on trying harder?

00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,360
Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:46,520
I mean, if you get kicked out with hard inflammations,

00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,320
you can, we all should take medication to reduce your pain

00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,760
and then think, oh, I can try harder now.

00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,440
Your body will show you that he's also

00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,760
capable of showing you even harder what he was trying

00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,160
to say to you before.

00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,080
Right, so I do not recommend that at all.

00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,440
And I mean, I'm not a doctor.

00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,280
I cannot recommend anything.

00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,320
I'm not in position.

00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:16,400
I just learned on my own body that most important thing is

00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,840
listen to myself to try to understand this game

00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,480
what's happening there.

00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,760
Because I learned that's so much more than just something

00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,240
I cannot control has influence on my level of pain.

00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,000
It's much more, for example, if I was lucky, I had less pain.

00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,880
If I had stress, I had more pain.

00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,840
If I eat certain things, I got more pain.

00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,440
So for example, I tried a bit of alcohol,

00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,400
inflammations just right through the roof.

00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,080
And I was completely full of pain.

00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,400
And I was asked, why do people think that this alcohol makes

00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,840
sense or is funny?

00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,480
I didn't get it.

00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,800
I don't drink it until now, so I don't need it.

00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,360
And same about caffeine, for example.

00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:07,200
So my way was to identify those factors.

00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,680
And it's like if you're sitting on a table,

00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,240
and people are playing cards, but you don't know the rules.

00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,040
But if you're so watched long enough,

00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:17,520
you can reverse engineer the rules

00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:23,600
and realize the repeating moments of the game

00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,840
and trying to get an idea of what it's like.

00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,520
And that's what I did with my body.

00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,840
So I was studying science, chemistry,

00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,160
and sitting at a doctor who said, yeah, we

00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720
don't know where it's coming from, and we cannot be healed.

00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,120
And good luck.

00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,240
Was not the end for me, because it was like, OK,

00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,080
someone is saying, I will not get it.

00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,080
But that does not necessarily mean that there's no chance.

00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,800
It just means that he does not know yet.

00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,080
And when I always felt like, OK, there's

00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,800
more than just that what the doctors say,

00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,960
I said, OK, I'm going to dive into that.

00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,840
I'm going to try to see what I can do with that

00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:11,240
and get behind those things where I can do something.

00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:17,360
And yeah, that led me on an adventurous path.

00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,200
At the end, I mean, I'm here now.

00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,280
I'm climbing.

00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,920
I went through a deep, deep time of just being

00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,880
able to walk crutches, almost sitting in a wheelchair.

00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,200
And I've pied everything back for my life, and even more

00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,600
than I did before.

00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,400
I mean, I started scuba diving.

00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,040
I'm doing a lot of things.

00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,240
I do a lot of climbing.

00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,200
Yeah, I got back a valid driver license.

00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,640
I moved out to Germany, got self-employed.

00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,320
So I think I'm living a life which

00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,960
is a really privileged and lucky one.

00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,960
And I'm a really happy guy, and I would say happier

00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440
than I was before.

00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:13,040
And I found my luck in life in something completely different

00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280
than what it was before.

00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,000
And I learned to read the things that my body wants

00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,960
to tell me through my dialysis.

00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:29,960
And I don't see it anymore as a burden or as something bad

00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:30,800
that happens to me.

00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,320
It's more like life showed me something,

00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,880
and I tried to do something out of that.

00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,880
And I always say, my slogan sort of says, take it, love it,

00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,200
live it.

00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,840
And that was the key for me, learning

00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,640
to love what you have and trying to make the best out of it,

00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,640
even if it's something which is considered

00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080
as the worst which can happen to you in life.

00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,120
And that's what I'm trying to do every day.

00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,120
And that's why I'm here still here,

00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,800
and that's why I'm a happy guy, not being depressed and not

00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,640
in a wheelchair.

00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:08,160
Awesome.

00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:08,680
OK.

00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,440
And I mean, it's opened new opportunities to you

00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,200
through paragliding and all the work that you do through that.

00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:16,880
Sure.

00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,400
Sure.

00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,440
I mean, every year I do things where I say,

00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,360
wow, I could not have imagined this one year ago.

00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,040
And the interesting thing is that it continues year by year,

00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,320
and something is asking, oh, what's

00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,000
going to happen next year?

00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,600
And I'm pretty sure we're going to talk about the Paralympics,

00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:37,200
for example.

00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,120
And this is one of those topics, for example,

00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,520
a topic where I did not believe it could actually happen

00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,720
and that it's happening, it's getting real,

00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,320
and the consequences of this is also one example.

00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,680
Just if someone would have told this to me one year ago,

00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,120
I would say, yeah, come on.

00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:57,800
Take Lex from these drugs.

00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,800
It's better for everyone, please.

00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,320
Yes.

00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,920
I think that's a good transition into the Paralympics, which

00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,200
for anyone who doesn't know, paragliding

00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,680
has been approved as a sport for the Paralympics in LA,

00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,680
2028, which is super exciting.

00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,020
And you mentioned that you actually

00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:17,560
worked on filing the application for that.

00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,640
So what was that process like?

00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,680
Yeah.

00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,280
I mentioned before I'm in the paragliding competition

00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,640
scene since 2017.

00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,720
I got there because I met Janek Ruder,

00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:35,760
one of the bolder World Cup climbers from Team Slovenia

00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,040
at that time.

00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,480
He's not into the competition scene now anymore.

00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,880
But I met him and he said, do you actually

00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,600
know there's a competition format for you?

00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,680
And I was like, what?

00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:47,880
I don't know.

00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,280
I didn't know how to spell IFSC and what that abbreviation

00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,040
actually means in 2016 when I met him.

00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,640
And so I googled a bit, found my way to the German team,

00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960
and since then I'm with them.

00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:08,160
And in 2019, there was again elections for the IFSC athlete

00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,360
representatives.

00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:16,000
And yeah, it was obvious that there were

00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,040
lots of challenges in all the sport.

00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:25,360
And I was not holding back and sharing my opinion.

00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:29,640
And at that time, I was speaking three languages, German,

00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,760
English, and French.

00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,240
And I was helping a lot out with communication, translation,

00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,400
explaining things.

00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
And I had proposals, et cetera, and said,

00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,880
hey, let's do something.

00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120
And I think there were four candidates for the position,

00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,040
and the athletes voted in majority for me.

00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,880
And since then, I was the athlete representative

00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,280
for four years until 23.

00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,960
I also got elected as the chair of the whole Paraclimbing

00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,560
Commission.

00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760
So the Paraclimbing Commission in the IFSC

00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,280
has two athlete representatives, coaches representatives,

00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920
experts, who, et cetera, and also classifiers.

00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,000
So it's sort of say like everyone from this sport

00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,080
sends a few experts to that table,

00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600
or a few representatives to that table, or one representative.

00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,200
And those are the people who take the decisions,

00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,080
discuss things, bring things from their community,

00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,320
for example, to this table where decisions are made,

00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,360
or what proposals are made, then towards the IFSC Executive

00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:41,720
Board where things are decided, for example,

00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,080
or some decisions we can swallow ones

00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,360
that we can take on our own, or like send, for example,

00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,120
new rule proposals, for example.

00:26:52,120 --> 00:27:01,120
And yeah, and since 2023, I'm just an expert in the commission.

00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,160
And I'm still the chair.

00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:10,880
And as part of that, the strategic plan from the IFSC

00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:20,520
from 2020 to 2028 was getting sport climbing and power

00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040
climbing in the Olympic and the Paralympic Games

00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,680
28 in Los Angeles.

00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,680
And as it was in that plan, it was our commission, so to say,

00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,000
who had the job to work on that.

00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,840
And so I was the one who was guiding, accompanying,

00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,000
leading the whole process behind the scenes

00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960
to get there, basically.

00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,320
I guess what did you have to fill out

00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,560
in terms of applying for the Paralympics?

00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,000
So it's a long way.

00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,840
I would start before that because there's actually,

00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,880
I have to know that you have to apply seven years

00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,040
before the Games.

00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Oh, wow.

00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,840
And you have to apply every time from you again.

00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,240
So it's not that you're in, for example,

00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,520
a sport climbing got accepted as additional sport in Tokyo 2020.

00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,640
So that did not automatically mean that sport climbing would

00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,560
also be in Paris and also in LA.

00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,000
They apply every time again.

00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,880
Every sport does that.

00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,400
And every edition of the Games has also

00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,600
a different medals and athlete quota.

00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,480
So because there is a top cap of the maximum number of athletes,

00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,640
which is allowed due to the logistics,

00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
capabilities of the Olympic Village, et cetera.

00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,800
So you have to know that every medal that we get,

00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
no matter if it's sport climbing or power climbing,

00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,640
what every athlete we are allowed to bring more

00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,240
to field of plays is reduced in another sport.

00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,080
And also one big factor which is not known

00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,080
is that just being as an able-bodied sport

00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,800
in the Olympics does not necessarily

00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,320
mean that your para sport is also in the Paralympics.

00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,200
This is a precondition.

00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,040
So your able-bodied partner sport

00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,080
has to be Olympic to be able to apply for the Paralympics,

00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,960
except one sport.

00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Except one sport is parabotcha because it has no able-bodied

00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,680
partner sport.

00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520
But for the others, this is a precondition.

00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,640
So if, for example, climbing would get kicked out

00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,400
of the Olympics, automatically, power climbing

00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,040
would also be not in the Paralympics anymore.

00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,720
Well, good thing it's been confirmed through 32 at least.

00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,400
Yeah, exactly.

00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,200
So for 32, Brisbane, we have to apply again.

00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,600
And this is seven years in one.

00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,400
So that official deadline will be in 2016, right,

00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,280
if I counted correctly?

00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,600
25 next year?

00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,720
Yeah, well, I think it's six years and a half, more or less.

00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,640
And since COVID, a few deadlines moved.

00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,600
So yeah, and there's a Paralympic handbook

00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,800
where all what I'm telling you here is also written.

00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,800
And so if anyone's interested, go to Paralympic.org

00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,760
and read through those documents.

00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,440
That's what I did, by the way, in the very beginning

00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,640
when I got told, OK, Seb, this is the project, Paralympics

00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,240
LA 28.

00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,200
See how you can do that.

00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,280
And so that's what I did.

00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,280
I just picked the Paralympic handbook

00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,200
and read, OK, what are the requirements?

00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,520
Where are we?

00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,920
And you have to know the IOC, so the International Olympic

00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,080
Committee, and the International Paralympic Committee.

00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:07,280
So IOC, IPC are two separate organizations.

00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,960
They have similarities, but at the end, they are separate.

00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,040
And one thing which is similar is

00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,440
that many of the criteria you have

00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,760
to fulfill for getting accepted into the Paralympics

00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,480
are the exact same as it is for the Olympics.

00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,120
So for example, you need an organization.

00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,040
You need to organize your sport in a way

00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,920
that you have got an international federation,

00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:32,840
you have got national federations,

00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,600
and you have to have common rules, et cetera, et cetera.

00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,040
There are a lot of, let's say, governance criteria

00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:41,800
into that catalog.

00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,800
And once you are ready for them for the Olympics,

00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200
you're automatically ready for the Paralympics as well.

00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,480
And in our case, as power climbing

00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800
is also managed by the IFSC, like sport climbing is also

00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,560
managed by the IFSC, this is like you check it once

00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,000
and then it's done.

00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,960
Other power sports, for example, are separated and managed

00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,680
by different organizations.

00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,640
And that is, again, a different story.

00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,400
Yeah, so you mentioned that it's never guaranteed

00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,360
that you would be in the Olympics.

00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,520
You have to apply every time.

00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,960
But is it at least easier to make it into, say, like a?

00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,880
Brisbane, Australia.

00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,920
Oh, yeah, Brisbane.

00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,760
Is it at least easier to make it in there after the LA games

00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,080
happen, since you've already been in it once?

00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,640
Yeah, once you have these criteria fulfilled.

00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,160
And one of those, which we did not

00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,080
fulfill in the beginning, was, for example, the IPC level

00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960
classification system.

00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640
So that's the big difference you have

00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040
in between an able-bodied sport and a power sport

00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:46,440
is classification.

00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,560
So classification means we look at our athletes

00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,360
and regroup them into different groups

00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,440
where we have an equal sport activity so that not

00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,320
the least impaired wins, but the one who

00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,880
brings the best performance or the best sport activity

00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,120
in comparison to his impairment.

00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,200
And we want to have a fair competition.

00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,440
So that means we don't let, for example, a visually impaired

00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,920
climb against someone who is leg-amputeed.

00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480
And this person, again, climbed against someone

00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400
who is arm-amputeed, for example.

00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,080
Because that would not be a competition.

00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:30,720
That would be like, I don't know, fun climbing together.

00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,560
So we need to have as equal conditions as possible.

00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,080
And for sure, every sport class.

00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,880
So that's the result on what a classification leads to.

00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,000
We group the athletes in sport classes.

00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,240
And every sport class has an upper and a lower end.

00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,120
So there's always strong two-range.

00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,800
But at least it's fairer than having none at all.

00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,600
So at the moment in power climbing,

00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,840
we have 10 sport classes.

00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,600
And for example, once you have that system installed,

00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,680
you have done a big, big step.

00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,560
And this was one of the main, or I would say,

00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,840
the biggest task for the whole power climbing commission

00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,080
to fulcrum before we could apply.

00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,320
Because when you apply for the games, and at the end,

00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,960
you apply by actually filling out a questionnaire

00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,080
and to show who you are, what you do.

00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,480
And every sport does that.

00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,720
And then the IPC and the IOC evaluates that

00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:32,680
and makes a decision based on that.

00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,120
And that's a bit of a secret on what actually submitted.

00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120
And no one knows what the others write in there.

00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,840
And sometimes I think it must be fun to work at the IPC

00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,560
to read out of non-statements that will never be published.

00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:57,480
And yeah, I say in climbing, we focus on our field of play,

00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,000
which is the wall.

00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,600
But at those Olympic federations,

00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,360
they do sport with sports.

00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,440
And it's more like sport A against sport B

00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,920
against sport C, who's better?

00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,640
Yeah, who can get more presentation?

00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:18,560
Yeah.

00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,800
Whatever, yeah.

00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,760
So no one knows exactly how those criteria are weighted

00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,640
and taken into consideration.

00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,720
But once you have seen all of this process,

00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,400
it's like once you have climbed your project,

00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,440
you know how it went.

00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:40,280
Now it goes.

00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:41,640
You know the beta.

00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,040
And that's what we do now.

00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,600
Now we sort of say, bolded our way

00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,280
through this whole application process.

00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,800
And we did it on site, I would say.

00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,280
Like first trial.

00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,920
It was the first trial we ever applied.

00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,760
And we got accepted.

00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:03,400
And you have to know that the Paralympic Games in 28

00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,040
got 33 applications from 33 different sports, power sports.

00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:16,040
And yeah, 22 were accepted right away.

00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,680
And those are the 22 program sports,

00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,120
which are the same like I know in Paris, 24.

00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:28,360
And then the IOC, the IPC, granted local organizer, LA 28,

00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,880
to decide if they want to have power climbing and slash

00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,520
or power surfing as additional sports from their choice,

00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,480
also into the Paralympic Games program.

00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:51,200
And in 24, in June, it was published

00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,880
that they did a long evaluation.

00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,360
So we waited way longer than it was announced earlier.

00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,360
Yeah, it was delayed.

00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,160
Yeah.

00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Yeah, it was delayed.

00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,880
And that shows that negotiations must have been really

00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,000
tough behind the scenes.

00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,800
And I was always like trying to calm everyone down,

00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,480
because no one knows what was going to happen.

00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:16,440
Just reading that just means like it could be like LA 28

00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,840
would say like, OK, sorry, we cannot handle

00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,160
any additional sport anymore, or just one, or two.

00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,360
No one knew the outcome.

00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,040
And I always said like, as long as there is no no,

00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,280
someone is still hoping, believing, and working on it.

00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,000
And yeah, finally, we were in.

00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,960
Surfing was out.

00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,960
And sorry for your surfing.

00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,000
I'm sorry for power surfing exactly,

00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,120
because they went together to the Olympics.

00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,440
So it was skating, surfing, climbing,

00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,400
who got together, included into Olympics.

00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,360
And now power climbing is the only power sport of those three

00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,440
who is into the Paralympics.

00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,600
And I know that power surfing applied also

00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,920
before even for Paris, but got rejected.

00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,320
And power climbing just applied for the very first time for LA.

00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,080
And we did not know how this process would go.

00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,560
So we just with the when I started

00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,080
as an athlete representative in 2009, in 2020,

00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,320
it started like, OK, this is the plan.

00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,120
This is where we're going to go.

00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:33,240
And yeah, I would say we just met the right people.

00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,880
We got the good ideas together.

00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,840
And in the very beginning, I was talking

00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,280
to many experts from these Paralympic teams.

00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,240
So to say like, for example, National Paralympic

00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:46,120
Commissions, chief classifiers from other sports,

00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,200
they were all telling me like, yeah, you can try.

00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,880
But chances that you're going to be in LA

00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,840
will be like super, super small.

00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,760
And then also knowing like who are our competitors,

00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,200
so to say, for the sports, knowing those sports

00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,920
are applying for each edition of the games again,

00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,960
and again, and again.

00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,880
And they get rejected, rejected, rejected.

00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,000
And some also got excluded, for example, power sailing,

00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:12,520
for example.

00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,840
And if you get excluded, you apply again.

00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,040
So those are sports which are well-settled.

00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,520
They know the process.

00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,880
And we were, so to say, like the new guys

00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,840
on the scene who had no idea on how this actually goes.

00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:35,240
And I still have the feeling that this is the case.

00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:36,080
But never mind.

00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,120
It's like if you see a line on a rock which you want to climb,

00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,280
and you just say like no matter how hard or easy it is,

00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,320
I just go for it because I like it.

00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,280
This is my goal now.

00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:49,640
And that's what we did.

00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:50,160
Yeah.

00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,400
I mean, sorry to Parasurfing.

00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,240
And congrats on the on-site for getting into the Paralympics.

00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:56,920
Thank you.

00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,000
So do you know which sport classes

00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,320
will be able to participate in the Paralympics?

00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,200
Please excuse this brief intermission.

00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,360
But I've gotten a few requests for this.

00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,840
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00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,400
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00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400
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00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,720
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00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,600
Back to the show.

00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,520
At the moment, we don't know.

00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,880
So now it's summer 24.

00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:53,440
And according to the handbook, the final sport classes

00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,880
at the final athlete and medal quarter

00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,400
has always announced 3 and 1 half years, more or less,

00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,160
before the game.

00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,160
So that means mid 25.

00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,920
We can expect that.

00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,640
Maybe it would be towards the end.

00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160
So no one knows as deadlines are a bit moving.

00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,880
But we expect this quota in 25.

00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,240
And then it's up to the IFSC to decide

00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,000
which sport class is going to get Paralympic

00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,720
and which one's not getting Paralympic.

00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:24,760
So as I said, we have 10 sport classes

00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,920
at the moment for each gender.

00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,480
We don't know how many medals we're going to get.

00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,600
Would it be one, two, three, four, five?

00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,560
I don't know.

00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,400
Oh, wow, one is going to be hard.

00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,400
One is going to be hard, yes.

00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,280
And there will be tough decisions ahead of us.

00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,800
And I hope the community will manage to stay together.

00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,160
In other sports, this is a normal procedure already.

00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,000
They are into it.

00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,720
For our Paralympic community, it's always very challenging,

00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,080
as everyone has to learn new things over time now.

00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,200
And just for example, the introduction

00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,600
of the new classification system.

00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,920
So we were coming from a classification system

00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,480
before we introduced the IPSC one, which was just

00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,840
2 and 1 half pages long.

00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,840
Now we have 50 pages, more or less.

00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,680
So 5, 0 pages.

00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,160
And these are the model rules that the IPSC

00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,200
requires you to have, which are in those forms,

00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,800
and let's say more or less applied in all sports.

00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,560
And so that means they are well tested,

00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,960
they are well prepared, and they have considered so many things

00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:46,240
that we did not have in our 2 and 1 half pages of rules

00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,040
that we had before.

00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,600
But those rules were running fine for many, many years

00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,000
in IPSC Paralympic.

00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,520
So when it started 2011, there were several modifications.

00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,040
But the biggest step now was definitely

00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,720
when we introduced the IPSC-based classification

00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,720
system and their rules.

00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:09,480
And actually, it sounds a bit weird maybe,

00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,960
but COVID helped us here.

00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,960
Because we had one year without competitions.

00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,680
And in this year, we had the time

00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,200
to prepare and silence it without having

00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,120
the rush of the running season to implement the new rules.

00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,000
Think about our sports specific classification system,

00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,120
because each par sport has his own set of individual rules

00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,240
for the sport.

00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:39,040
And someone had to invent it.

00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,360
And the commission and an expert show greetings

00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,080
to Sean Spencer, physio from Australia,

00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,400
who was our pioneer just writing on a blank sheet of paper

00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,320
the first lines on how this new classification system

00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,080
for climbing should look like.

00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,320
And since then, it was introduced in 21.

00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,400
It was revised every year.

00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:07,400
And if I look back and see the kind of modifications

00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,520
that were done over the years, I would say the first draft

00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,960
or the first version was already really, really good,

00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,320
just coming from a blank paper.

00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,560
And this is the hardest step.

00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,560
And it's good to know that it's done now

00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:29,840
and that we can just improve existing rules and work

00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,840
on that instead of being challenged

00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,600
with inventing something completely from you again.

00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:41,240
So if we were only given one medal for the Paralympics,

00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,440
what do you think would be the most likely sport

00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,240
class to go in?

00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,600
I don't know.

00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,320
And I don't think that I'm in a position

00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,280
to make guesstimations here.

00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,400
But I can tell you the criteria that the IPC

00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,400
is requesting this sport to fulfill.

00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,960
So you need to show that you have gender equality.

00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,680
So that means we have to have a sport class which has,

00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,200
for example, not just men and no women,

00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,400
but we still have that in one case.

00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Sadly, this is the AL1 sport class.

00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,520
This is the leg amputee or, let's say,

00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,760
loss of control and muscle power and neurological control

00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,400
in both legs.

00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,240
So those who are sitting in the wheelchair

00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:37,440
and can't pressing everything, there we have,

00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,560
over the past years, we developed a stable sport

00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:44,960
class on the men's side, which is competing on their own

00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,080
in each competition, but none on the women's side.

00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,320
So for example, then it can tell you

00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,560
this sport class would then not fulfill this gender equality

00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,200
criteria.

00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:10,880
Then you need to show a robust and precise classification

00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:12,120
process for that sport.

00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:17,400
So a sport class has to be well-defined and have,

00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,360
let's say, a proper setup.

00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,760
And there it starts with being a bit vague on, in my opinion,

00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,920
to say what the IPC might mean with that.

00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:39,480
And to be honest, I don't have too much insight

00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,480
and comparison in between other power sports

00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,520
and see what's a good setup in this case

00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,200
and which one is a setup where you think it could be optimized.

00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,680
I just don't know that.

00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,720
And then the IPC is also in favor

00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:58,360
of more severe sport classes.

00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,760
So that's something they support.

00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,320
And in general, I think that means

00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,040
what they just want is a good show.

00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,760
Yeah.

00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,840
I mean, I guess that makes sense, yeah.

00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,840
A decision will be made in 25, for sure.

00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,360
And it will be for this edition of the Games Only.

00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,520
I hope that also those sport classes who will not

00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,680
be Paralympic will keep their spirit,

00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:32,120
because this will have no effect on the IPC format

00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,840
that we have inside our World Cup and World Championship

00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,640
Series.

00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,480
That will all stay the same and not be affected by that.

00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:45,080
So we're not going to bend the sport for the Olympic setup in 28.

00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,120
So it will remain the way it is.

00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,160
And we're going to work on that.

00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,320
And the Olympics is just one addition

00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,560
on top of that, the existing thing.

00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:02,960
But it's not going to feed back on the current format we have.

00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,320
And I hope also National Federations will support

00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,800
and keep sending those athletes who are not

00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,720
in a Paralympic sport class.

00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:17,120
And because we need this variety and we need also

00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,960
these sport classes to grow.

00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,240
Because we need to show that we have the numbers,

00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,160
and that's also basically a requirement,

00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160
we need to show the numbers over the years

00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,440
and the sport classes we want to propose

00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,560
for potential future inclusion.

00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,120
So if you, for example, would say, OK, let's just

00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,080
say we get two medals in 28.

00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,600
And everyone focuses just on those two sport classes

00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:45,760
and just forgets on one of the eight,

00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,360
I think we will lose a big part of the sport.

00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,840
And this will be a huge mistake and would automatically

00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,280
take away the chance from growing any further.

00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,240
Because we need every sport class that we have.

00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,080
And we need the numbers.

00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,120
And even if it's just a single competitor

00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,720
from a single country who is there

00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:09,400
all over the consistently competing in all the years,

00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:10,840
that's super important.

00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,520
Because there's also one criteria

00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,200
where you have to show that you have got a global reach

00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,760
and relevancy with your sport.

00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,960
So the athlete wants to see 32 competing countries

00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:25,920
on a regular basis.

00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,640
And it's also one of those criteria's

00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,560
from the big list of the handbook.

00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,480
And even more, to have a Paralympic sport class,

00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:44,840
you need to show that you have got at least 10 athletes

00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,160
from four different countries in both genders

00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,360
over the whole period of statistics

00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,320
you send for the application.

00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:58,080
OK, yeah, we'll see what comes of that in 2025, I guess.

00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:04,320
Moving on to your experience being athlete representative

00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,880
and being chairman of the Paraclimbing Commission,

00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,480
what do you feel like are some of the biggest issues you've

00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,760
tackled so far doing that?

00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,080
And what are some issues you're still working on

00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,320
within Paraclimbing?

00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,800
You had a transition from just being an athlete

00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,800
to being a representative.

00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,840
And suddenly, being in a position

00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,000
in between the athletes and the IFSC,

00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,280
sitting in between all of those chairs,

00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,280
so to say, was really challenging in the beginning

00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:41,120
for me because I had no one to ask or to get experience from.

00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,480
I tried to.

00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,360
I tried to reach out to the Able Body Athlete Commission,

00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,000
but I failed in the beginning.

00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,680
In the meantime, I have the contacts.

00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,560
And no, I don't have the questions anymore.

00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:56,880
Gotcha.

00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,640
Yeah.

00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,640
But at the time, I would have needed some help.

00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:03,480
It was out there.

00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,320
So that was a very tough time in the beginning

00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,080
because I didn't know what I did not know.

00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:18,520
And there's no handbook on this is how the IFSC works,

00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,200
and this is how things go in the sport behind the field of play,

00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,680
behind the scenes.

00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:30,240
And you have to just go there and get as much

00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,800
as you can get in that moment and then

00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,280
puzzle together your picture on where you are,

00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,040
what your possibilities are, and to learn how things go.

00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,960
And the first thing I learned was that, yes,

00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:48,280
as an athlete, as an individual sportsman or woman,

00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:49,520
you have your mission.

00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,720
You have your view on things.

00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:56,280
But not necessarily does that mean that there's

00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,600
other perspectives and opinions, for example,

00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,760
from an event organizer, from the IFSC,

00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,040
from the national federations.

00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,320
And they can all be different.

00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,320
And they all have good reasons for their position.

00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,440
But when you're just an athlete, you don't know that.

00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,400
You don't know the reasons.

00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,040
You don't know why things are the way they are.

00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:21,200
And I was then in a role also to explain things

00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,880
towards athletes and say, look, not someone just

00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,280
didn't get something or missed something.

00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,520
That might have happened, sure.

00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,760
But for many things, there's reasons

00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,400
why things are the way they are.

00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,400
And they are not safe, self-explanatory.

00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,400
And then it's up to the athlete representative

00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,040
to just explain those things and tries

00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:49,080
to put some more explanation into things,

00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,200
explain rules, explain changes.

00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,840
And it was a tough time, especially

00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,960
during all those rule changes, which for sure

00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,760
produced lots of tears and drama.

00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,680
Because, for example, the IPC-based classification

00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,400
system introduced some things that were not existing before.

00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,520
So from that moment on, the IPC has

00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,280
a different of eligible impairments

00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:16,960
that are allowed to compete.

00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,720
And also a list of non-eligible impairments.

00:53:19,720 --> 00:53:23,000
You can read it at the end of our classification rules.

00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,200
They are in the resources on the IFSC page.

00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,880
So if someone's interested to read all of that,

00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:28,720
take a look in there.

00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,640
Oh, I don't like it.

00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:36,640
And it's an interesting read, in my opinion.

00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,760
And my recommendation to all the athletes

00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,040
is also to take a look in there.

00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,440
And you will get a deeper understanding.

00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,240
Because being a parathetic does not just

00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:51,720
mean you have to play well on the field of play.

00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,560
You also need to know the rules.

00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:00,400
And it's not enough to just say, yeah, my coach knows

00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,120
how it goes and he has to instruct me.

00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:04,760
No.

00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,760
You have to know on your own, and especially

00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:12,000
in the very beginning, when you get your first classification,

00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,440
when you're approaching that, it's a very important task

00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,560
that you should prepare well.

00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,440
And it starts way earlier than just,

00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,800
I'm traveling to a competition and I'm seeing all paraclimbing

00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,440
classifiers and I get the evaluation session

00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,520
and they assign me a sport class and then I go to qualification.

00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:32,880
No, it starts way earlier.

00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,000
And that needs to be well prepared.

00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,160
And those are things that were really

00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,320
changing with the new system.

00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,760
And also one thing which I think got most of the controversy

00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,040
and tears and drama was the introduction of minimum

00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,160
impairment criteria.

00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,440
So that means there's a minimum level of impairment

00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,400
defined for each sport class that you

00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,880
have to fulfill to be eligible for competing.

00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,480
Well, was that not there before?

00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,040
It wasn't there before.

00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,000
It was just a very vague definition.

00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,520
But in some cases, it was there.

00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,440
For example, in the visual impaired sport classes

00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:16,160
or in I think the AL2 sport class also had a definition.

00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,120
But for example, the RP sport classes,

00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,480
so those who have limited range, power, stability,

00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,920
so those with neurological and physiological impairments,

00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,440
there was no real minimum impairment criteria defined

00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,920
and also not really defined how it is assessed, et cetera.

00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,600
And all of that is now defined.

00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:41,320
And by having no limit there or minimum criteria

00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,320
and by introducing one, there were

00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,640
athletes who were competing before but then being excluded

00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,840
and being not eligible anymore.

00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:50,960
And those were even more than 10%

00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,760
that we just lost with just introducing a new system.

00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,080
And for sure, that got a lot of discussions, a lot of tears,

00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:58,960
a lot of drama.

00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,800
And it still happens that in these days

00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,360
that people are coming to competitions

00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:05,800
and then find out that they are not

00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,440
eligible for the sport for whatever reason.

00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:15,480
There might be many reasons, but it's not many cases.

00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,600
And there is also a system which tries

00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,880
to detect those people so that no one is traveling

00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,720
halfway around the world to say that he's not

00:56:27,720 --> 00:56:30,800
eligible to compete of what we want.

00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,520
So that's why everyone has to also to submit

00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,400
their medical documentation beforehand.

00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,440
And that's why I say it's very important

00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,280
that athletes understand it and their classification process

00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:49,960
starts when they print out this form they need to fill out

00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,480
by their medical doctor, which is then submitted to the IFSC.

00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,760
And it's checked when they apply.

00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,440
And if there are any questions, they're

00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,720
getting back to the athletes and maybe warning people

00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,560
and say, hey, you might be a borderline case.

00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:03,200
Look on that.

00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,440
Or we need additional documentation here.

00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,280
So that's a way more robust and really way more professional

00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,400
system we have now in comparison to what was there before.

00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,200
So did these changes just take effect this year?

00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,280
No.

00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:26,080
This was introduced in 21 when the first version

00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,600
of the IPC-based classification system

00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,560
was introduced by the IFSC.

00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,920
At this competition, it was in Sprook in 2021,

00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,560
where all the athletes have to undergo classification again,

00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,800
everyone, because no one had a valid classification.

00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,600
No one had a valid sports class classification anymore.

00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,680
So everyone had to go through the process again.

00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,680
That's what we did.

00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,560
And that's where the completely new field was set up.

00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,080
And also, as not everyone was traveling

00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:05,800
to this competition, there were, let's say,

00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:11,160
also big classification sessions after this first competition.

00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:13,680
And also, there are many possible outcomes

00:58:13,680 --> 00:58:15,320
of a classification process.

00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,760
Sometimes it's not just that you get a sport class, which

00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,880
means, for example, like B1.

00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,320
So that's the most severe visually impaired sport class.

00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,160
You also get a sport class status,

00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,720
which indicates how secure your classification, sport

00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,080
class is.

00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:38,000
So that means some, for example, have a confirmed status.

00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,520
So I, for example, have one that's

00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,160
where the medical experts say, OK, this

00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,880
is a super stable condition.

00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,920
It's not going to change.

00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,240
It would stay the way it is, and that's it.

00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,840
So then you get a confirmed status.

00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,120
If, for example, your condition is subject to change,

00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,520
for example, it's a progressing disease in whatever direction,

00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,640
might improve or make it worse, whatever,

00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,520
the classifiers might give you a fixed review date.

00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,360
So that means, for example, they give you a fixed review date,

00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,600
26, for example.

00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,720
That means at the first occasion or before you

00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,000
have the first competition in this year,

00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,320
you have to undergo classification,

00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,280
the classification process again from you again.

00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,640
And also, you can have a review status, which means,

00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:35,520
and you have to undergo classification again

00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,280
at the next possible occasion.

00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:43,880
And for example, if, so it's complex.

00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,120
And I'm just describing some scenarios here.

00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,320
There are even more possible outcomes,

00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,960
but those are roughly the scenarios that exist.

00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,520
And this status, by the way, either it's

00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:58,720
so at different stages.

00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,000
First, you submit the documents.

01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,320
Documents are checked.

01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Then you travel to a competition.

01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,520
Before the competition, there's the so-called evaluation

01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,040
session where you see for the first time the medical experts,

01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:13,080
the sport classifiers from our power sports or power climbing

01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,840
classifiers.

01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,280
They assess the athlete then and see the documentation,

01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,800
see the athletes there.

01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,080
They do specific tests based on their impairment.

01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:26,760
So it's also described in the rule books

01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,800
which tests they're going to run through.

01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,920
And from those tests, you get a score and score that says,

01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,160
OK, this is your sport class.

01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:39,320
And after that, we start with the quantification session.

01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,640
And in the quantification session, the, so maybe,

01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,720
oh, sorry, forgot one thing.

01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:50,040
In some cases, the classifiers may say, OK, we did now

01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:54,040
hear our tests here on a test bench and our examination room.

01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,080
But we want to see on the wall and do a so-called sport

01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:58,400
specific test.

01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,040
So for example, they say, like, OK, here's a ball of the wall

01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,240
or here's a small top rope.

01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,840
And you climb there.

01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:06,520
And we let you do some moves.

01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,840
They want to see the impairment in action.

01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:14,400
So the classifiers can request that.

01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,600
And after all of this assessment part,

01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:24,040
they give the athlete a sport class

01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,800
and sometimes also already sport class status.

01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,040
But all of that is subject to observation

01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,760
in the qualification session.

01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,640
So our classifiers are watching the comp,

01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:36,480
the qualification session, and then

01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,800
see if the sport activity level on the wall

01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,040
matches that what they assessed before in the evaluation

01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:45,000
session.

01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,800
And if, for example, I would pretend like,

01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,640
oh, I don't get my arm further up than this

01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,160
in the evaluation session on the bench test,

01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,680
and then suddenly in competition, I'm like,

01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,000
this up here.

01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,880
And then for sure, our classifiers

01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:03,400
might have some question.

01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:04,240
OK, gotcha.

01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:05,240
What happens?

01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:06,240
Yeah.

01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,080
That happens.

01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,320
And that has, I would say, it can also

01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,080
be like an impairment shows in a completely different way

01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,040
than it was expected for.

01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:20,240
Maybe it's a rare case.

01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,280
No one has ever seen it before.

01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,520
The classifiers have to discuss it again, for example.

01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,520
And there can even be drastic decisions

01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:31,080
at that time being taken.

01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:36,040
So for example, the most severe action they can take

01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:41,720
is to give someone the CNC sport class, that's

01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,400
classification not completed.

01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:50,400
So that means this person may not compete anymore.

01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,440
So in this case means that your climbing

01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:57,200
is over after the qualification, and you are not

01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,240
allowed to climb in finals.

01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,160
And in this case, this person has

01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:06,360
to undergo the next possible occasion for classification

01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,080
in order to compete again.

01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,360
And in very severe cases, the classifiers

01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:17,080
can also raise the case of intentional misrepresentation,

01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,120
also known as cheating.

01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:23,200
And if that's proven, it can lead up

01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,560
to a ban from the sport for many years.

01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:32,560
And I think we did not have any proven cases in climbing yet,

01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,840
because if our classifiers are really like,

01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,880
they know how to intervene and to say something in a way

01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:45,320
like they don't have to bring all those super drastic measures

01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,600
and to handle it in a good way.

01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:52,960
But in other sports, this seems to be more of a topic

01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,120
in other power sports.

01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:54,880
Oh, really?

01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:55,520
Yeah.

01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,640
I would say to make this even complete,

01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:02,720
there's also a case of protest and appeal

01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,520
can also be raised against decisions.

01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,400
But this very clearly defined on who may

01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,000
protest against which decision.

01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:13,160
And it's very complex.

01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:16,440
It's a complete own section in the rule book.

01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,480
But so if you're interested, read that.

01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:22,800
And there can be very different reasons

01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,400
why something happens in a power sport because

01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,760
of classification rules.

01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,600
And yeah, that's challenging sometimes

01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:39,600
to explain to athletes and also as our classifiers have

01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:46,360
to, yeah, there's strict confidentiality on those data

01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:47,960
and those things.

01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,120
So you would never be allowed, for example,

01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,880
to accompany an athlete with a camera team

01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,040
into a classification session.

01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,520
That will never happen.

01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,960
And so they will also never give a statement in public

01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,520
on why a decision was made this way.

01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:11,000
It's a strict confidentiality there.

01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,240
But there are rules which are there for.

01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,880
And there are also always ways on how to protest and appeal

01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:19,400
against decisions.

01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,040
So I guess the classification process kind of reminds me

01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,320
of what you were talking about earlier when you were saying

01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:30,840
that you have a big issue, and then you go to the doctor,

01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,120
and you have to wait, and it just

01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:33,760
happens to be better that day.

01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:38,720
I guess what happens if you get classified

01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:43,720
and then you climb in qualifiers and you just that day

01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:48,840
happen to be kind of doing better or your impairment

01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:49,560
is not as good?

01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:50,560
Yeah.

01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:52,320
You had a bad day in classification,

01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,760
and next day you had a good day in qualification.

01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:55,920
Yeah.

01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:56,760
Yeah.

01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,920
That can happen.

01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,240
There are many impairments which are fluctuating,

01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,840
or some are even, for example, temperature dependent.

01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:11,000
There are impairments who depend on stress, for example.

01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,400
And it's not an easy job for a classifier

01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:23,560
to make this differentiation on what is impairment, what

01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,480
is training, and what is, for example,

01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,760
an aspect of the form of that day.

01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:38,080
And our classifiers are experienced in climbing.

01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,240
And some of our classifiers are also climbing

01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,560
on a really, really high level.

01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:46,760
So we have classifiers who climb up to 8A, 8B.

01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,440
And sometimes they also test our routes, by the way,

01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,420
if there is occasion for that.

01:06:52,420 --> 01:06:55,440
And mostly that I really like that.

01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,680
So maybe you get the chance to get also a classifier

01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,600
on your podcast, because you already have

01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:04,720
your route typed out.

01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,520
So why not also classifier here and giving deeper insight

01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,040
into that?

01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,400
Because I'm no medical expert on that.

01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,360
I can just explain from my experience

01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,720
and what I saw in the sport and what I know from the rules.

01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,720
But that's not the full picture, for sure.

01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:26,080
And so this question you asked to me would be,

01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,280
I would love to hear the answers from a classifier there.

01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,540
And I know that when they watch athletes in the competition,

01:07:33,540 --> 01:07:36,200
they discuss after qualification.

01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,840
And this can take a long time.

01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:42,320
So we know from everybody qualifications,

01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,080
once they've climbed, that's the result list.

01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:49,480
Then you have got this period where a protest can be raised.

01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,480
And then after that period is over,

01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:53,160
this is the final competition results.

01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,040
You have the group which moves on to the next round.

01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:56,840
That's it.

01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:57,520
Closed.

01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:58,520
It's closed.

01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,840
And para climbing, this is not the case.

01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,880
It can happen that the last climber is on the wall.

01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:06,680
We are coming down.

01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:08,600
There's the list of rankings.

01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,600
And then the classifiers start their discussion

01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,920
round on their observations.

01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,120
And that can take a long time.

01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:20,440
So maybe you go back to your hotel on the qualification day

01:08:20,440 --> 01:08:24,400
and you still don't have the final list of results.

01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,760
It can sometimes take hours before you

01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,600
know the final sport class and sport class

01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,280
status for each athlete.

01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:38,200
And following that, also, where all class athletes

01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,920
who were observed, are they still in the game?

01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,320
And will they move to the next round or not?

01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,760
And I mean, it doesn't happen that often

01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,120
that we see big differences.

01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,680
But here and there, there are people

01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,880
who are, there are changes after qualifications.

01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,160
So you just have to know that this

01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,680
is the big difference in between everybody and para

01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,600
in terms on how qualification works.

01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:10,400
The qualification day works.

01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,280
OK, I'll try to get a classifier on then.

01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:16,120
Thank you for the explanation of classification.

01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,880
It's a complicated process.

01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:21,040
So I'm glad that we can get a little bit more information

01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,160
out there about it.

01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:28,720
But yeah, moving on to, I guess, more of your personal life

01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:31,920
or non-competition life.

01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,720
Certainly, a lot of athletes don't make much money

01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:39,160
from climbing anyway, and unfortunately, even less

01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,360
so in para climbing.

01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,440
So I guess, what do you do for work?

01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:48,560
So yeah, we have a few full-time athletes

01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,840
in the para climbing community in the meantime.

01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,680
And I hope that they are getting more and more.

01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:02,320
With the focus and the exposure that we

01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,040
get through the Paralympics 28, this will,

01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,160
chances were increased.

01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:11,080
Now is the moment for people to start.

01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:17,600
And yeah, and some of you might also know my private projects,

01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,280
the Solar Bike Project, where I built my own vehicle

01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,200
that I used to get to the competitions this year.

01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:29,600
And yeah, I have a very well-balanced sponsor

01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,240
systems of my credit card, my other credit card,

01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,040
my paypal account, and my bank account.

01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,240
And I realized this year that it's not

01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:39,560
as balanced as I thought.

01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,920
OK.

01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:43,960
Well, getting back to your question, yes, I've

01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:47,840
got a job as freelance IT guy.

01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,920
I'm doing server administration, website, e-commerce systems.

01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:55,640
That's what my job looks like.

01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:05,080
And the climbing part is free time.

01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:11,960
But I'm in a situation that I can decide quite flexible

01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,000
on my free time projects.

01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,680
And as I said in the beginning, with my condition,

01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:19,800
I'm closing spondylitis.

01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:23,600
It's very important that I keep my flexibility,

01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:27,480
that I keep my level of activity.

01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:30,400
So even if I want or not, I have to live

01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,760
a very active, athletic life.

01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:38,000
So even if I would not be paragliding one day anymore,

01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,240
on IFSC level, I will 100% continue climbing

01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,640
and do some other things.

01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:47,320
And I will always continue on some other projects.

01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:50,240
So I will not focus, for example, just on climbing.

01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,960
I would always go scuba diving.

01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:57,360
And if I now I discovered hand cycling for me,

01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,240
and I'm also doing other things, and I

01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,520
will continue that also because I know it's very important

01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,680
for my whole body to keep things balanced

01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,000
and not to focus too hard on one thing.

01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,280
If I just would, let's say, just focus on climbing,

01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,440
I would maybe get a bit better.

01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:22,880
But after that, it would go down because I would, so to say,

01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,320
lose a bit.

01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:28,680
It would be too specific in one direction,

01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,280
the whole training, et cetera.

01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:35,080
And I already feel it now as I've never hand

01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:36,840
cycled that much before.

01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,360
I now feel how my body changes.

01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,680
And my body reacts quite hard on changes.

01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,720
For example, I then start to get more muscle

01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,800
tonus in my shoulders, on my neck.

01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,800
And that will then lead to more pain there.

01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:52,760
And my body has to adapt slowly to that.

01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,760
So I should never train too much just on one thing

01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:59,680
because it will always have bad consequences for me.

01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,560
So I have to do some things, see how my body adapts,

01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,280
give him also some time, readjust a bit,

01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:10,480
and be quite careful with the level of intensity

01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:11,800
that I put on it.

01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:14,360
Going back to the solar hand bike,

01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:18,160
I figured that that is a very time-consuming project.

01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,360
And maybe you would have some kind of engineering background

01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:23,120
to work on it.

01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:27,800
How did you get the idea to work on this project?

01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,880
Since I was a kid, I was always playing around

01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,600
and with scale models, et cetera.

01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:41,760
That was my background, like cars and trains, et cetera.

01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,720
When I was a kid and I was learning

01:13:43,720 --> 01:13:48,400
how to solder cables, et cetera, and electricity and things,

01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,920
I always had a fascination for that.

01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,600
And I actually never lost that.

01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:55,960
So I always had projects.

01:13:55,960 --> 01:14:01,280
Since I was in school, I, for example, developed in school,

01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,760
I developed a system that scale model cars, which

01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,880
were driving independently, recognized each other

01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,600
and reacted and adapted their speeds together, et cetera,

01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:18,080
and even went to science competitions with that,

01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,520
where kids could participate and even got to the highest

01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,800
level you can get in Germany with that.

01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,200
And also, when I was studying, I always

01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:35,600
had a little corner in my room where I had some things to like,

01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,520
had to just work on things.

01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,840
And I was always having projects, sometimes more,

01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:42,520
sometimes less.

01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,920
And when I moved to Spain, I had the vision

01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:52,320
of building something on my own to combine

01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,480
the power of solar, electric, with the things

01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:58,680
that I have to get a vehicle where I can get

01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:06,240
the maximum distance with things that are accessible for me.

01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,160
And so it turned out that I ended

01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:12,960
with something like, which was based on e-bike technology,

01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,960
so assisted electric aid.

01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,240
And I combined that with solar to get the maximum distance

01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,280
and maximum independence.

01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:27,320
And I started this project actually,

01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,240
now it's even more than one and a half years ago.

01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,560
And I was working for it for many, many months in silence

01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,160
behind closed doors and told no one about it.

01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,640
And just very shortly before Innsbruck,

01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,440
I made it public that I'm going to go with it to Innsbruck,

01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:46,280
1,000 kilometers.

01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,640
I had the vision long, long time before in my mind,

01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,360
but I was working hard on it to get there.

01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,080
And there was moments where I was pretty sure,

01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,000
oh, this is not going to work out.

01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:02,760
And in the beginning, I was just, I mean, it's a prototype.

01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,800
I had no instructions and no things

01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:06,800
I could copy paste from.

01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:08,440
I just had an idea in my mind.

01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,560
I had all my little toy engineering,

01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:18,040
playing background from my childhood, many as a child.

01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,600
And it's like, actually, I'm still doing the same,

01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,240
but just the scale change.

01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,160
Now I just, I don't let cars, little cars or trains,

01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:27,400
whatever drive around.

01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:30,840
Now I'm just sitting in my vehicles that I built

01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:33,960
and I'm driving with them.

01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,040
So I'm still doing the same, but just the scale and distance

01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:38,480
has changed.

01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,360
And I tested a lot on my Yorker here.

01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,160
So I did the round around the island twice.

01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,520
The short version was like 250 kilometers in two days.

01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:53,280
And the long one was then three days for 400 kilometers

01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,080
with a lot of mountains in between.

01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:58,880
So it was, I think, 4,000 meters of altitude

01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:02,720
to climb, 5,000 to the ground.

01:17:02,720 --> 01:17:06,800
And the road to Innsbruck then was 1,000 kilometers.

01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,600
And I think at the end, it was more than 12,000 meters

01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:13,400
of altitude to climb up with a bike,

01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:15,880
because I had to cross the Alps.

01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:20,160
And yes, yeah, Innsbruck is in the middle of the mountains.

01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,000
If you see around the beautiful scenery

01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:25,200
around the credit center, you see the alpine background

01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:26,440
around there.

01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:27,960
Those were basically the mountains

01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,920
I had to cycle over with my own bike.

01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,960
There's not a river going all the way from Spain to Innsbruck.

01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,840
I could just follow.

01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:38,400
No, no, no.

01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,320
And I just announced it.

01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,880
Actually, it was officially announced

01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:47,200
in the livestream of Salt Lake.

01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,240
And it was not planned.

01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,880
I just told Matt about the crazy idea.

01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:55,320
And I said, I think I'm going to make it public then soon.

01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,960
And he just decided to talk about it,

01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,360
to tell in public about it in the livestream.

01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:08,680
It was in May, it was in early May, it was early May, 2024,

01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:09,800
exactly.

01:18:09,800 --> 01:18:11,960
And then I stayed even longer in the US.

01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:13,080
I came back from the US.

01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:16,400
And I just had two weeks in Spain to get the bike ready

01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:17,840
and to depart for Innsbruck.

01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:20,720
Yeah, I mean, you had to, because he

01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,560
mentioned it on the livestream.

01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:24,800
No, I also wanted to.

01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:26,920
The ferry was already booked, et cetera.

01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,240
So I'm sure if something would have gone wrong.

01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:31,520
And a lot of things went wrong along the way.

01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,280
Don't get me wrong, there was a big chance

01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:35,800
that I wouldn't make it.

01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:36,520
But I did it.

01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,080
I had a broken spoke in the front wheel.

01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,760
And it was seriously deforming.

01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,240
And I couldn't get it fixed on the way.

01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,640
I tried to add lots of technical issues on the way.

01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,960
But I had a big toolbox with me.

01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,600
And I could fix everything along the way that I made it there.

01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,080
And at the end, it took me seven days to Innsbruck

01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:00,360
for 1,000 kilometers.

01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,400
Not bad.

01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:06,560
Now, it's an average of 150 kilometers per day.

01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,400
But the longest day was even, say, far more.

01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:14,120
It was like 212 kilometers on a single day.

01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,120
And it was the last day, just following a river in downhill.

01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:20,720
What was the nicest part?

01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:21,840
The nicest part?

01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:23,520
Yeah.

01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:29,040
Oh, there were so many moments.

01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,080
But one, I think, was the first highlight

01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:38,640
was for me to be in Briehnsan with the bike.

01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,200
So the place where I had my first World Cup ever in 2017.

01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,600
And I was many times in Briehnsan by car

01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,120
before for the World Cups there.

01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,680
And then when I was there, I crossed the village

01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:51,680
in the very morning.

01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:57,320
I even just literally stopped by at the new competition wall.

01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:59,480
And that was at 6 in the morning,

01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:03,480
because then I went over the Maloja Pass over to Italy.

01:20:03,480 --> 01:20:06,840
And that's a very steep road where you have to climb.

01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:11,600
And it's the only road which exists in between France

01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:13,920
and Italy in that part of the Alps.

01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,200
And so there's normally heavy traffic.

01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,960
And very often, I tried to avoid heavy traffic

01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:25,840
by going in early hours, which was a really, really good plan.

01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:30,120
And at that day, I even went further to Turin,

01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,600
and I stopped by the IFSC office.

01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:37,240
And that was just I had different versions of routes

01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:37,880
I want to go.

01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,120
And then I decided, OK, I'm going to take the middle route,

01:20:40,120 --> 01:20:42,040
not following the Mediterranean Sea,

01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:46,280
and not going through too much through Switzerland.

01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:51,600
So I decided to take the middle way right through France,

01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:52,200
then Italy.

01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,800
And so I said, like, just as a joke, like, hey,

01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,560
if I'm in Turin, for sure I'm going

01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,000
to stop by at the IFSC office and say hello.

01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,760
And it's like, I mean, if Marco Scolaris is there,

01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,080
he can take a look at the bike and make a picture or whatever

01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:09,400
if he wants to.

01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,040
And at that time, I didn't even know, will he be there,

01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:13,280
or will the others be there?

01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:16,640
And is he actually interested in the project or not?

01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,280
I mean, it's cycling.

01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,560
It's not climbing, right?

01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:23,280
At the end, it turned out the IFSC

01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:28,200
shared all of my stories for like nine days, I think.

01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,040
And I was really wondering, like, guys, are you serious?

01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,440
Because it's like, this is cycling content.

01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:35,280
Yes, I'm going to climbing contitution,

01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,440
but this is not climbing, right?

01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,280
It's a different sport.

01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:40,560
And it was not them to do it.

01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,200
They just decided, like, hey, we're going to capture it.

01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:47,040
And yeah, and Marco Scolaris even wanted to ride the bike.

01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:48,240
So he was not there.

01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,120
He was there, and he's like, I can also drive.

01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:56,160
And then he was driving on the sidewalk for 20 meters.

01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,720
That was a really unexpected highlight.

01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,480
And then one of the biggest challenges,

01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:06,400
and I think it was a day I will never forget,

01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,880
because it was the day where the press release was published

01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:14,600
that LA 28 decided to include power

01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,680
climbing for the Paralympics.

01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:20,280
And that was the day where I was driving up the Maloja Pass

01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:24,720
from Italy to Switzerland, which means you have to climb up

01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,480
1,600 meters of altitude.

01:22:28,480 --> 01:22:33,440
You start at 200 meters above sea level,

01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:35,240
and it's like 30 degrees.

01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:38,240
And then you go up over 40 kilometers,

01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:41,920
and the first 30 kilometers are just warm up.

01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:44,600
And then it really kicks in at the last 10 kilometers

01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:49,760
with an inclination of up to 18%, which is a lot.

01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,680
I just can't go at that.

01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,960
And that ratio can only go at like 2 kilometers per hour.

01:22:55,960 --> 01:23:00,440
So you just see line by line, and you can count them.

01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:02,160
And it takes forever.

01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:04,400
Slower than walking.

01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,280
Yes, exactly.

01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:07,640
It's slower than walking.

01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,760
And in control, overheating in the middle of the climate,

01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:14,800
you have to stop at this tiny corner and cars and trucks

01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:16,120
passing by, et cetera.

01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,160
And Europe roads are not as wide as they are in the US,

01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:20,840
by the way.

01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:23,680
It just fits one car in, and that's it.

01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:24,240
Boom.

01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:29,040
There's not half a meter left and right, and that's it.

01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,200
And when I was up there then, it was an incredible moment.

01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,000
And the temperature was just barely above freezing.

01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:38,240
And then it started to rain.

01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,960
Oh my gosh.

01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:40,760
Yeah.

01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,640
And then I was searching for the next hotel,

01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:45,400
and then being in a hotel.

01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:48,040
And then it was published with Paralympics.

01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:52,040
And that was the day for me where I will never forget,

01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:56,720
because from my feeling, I got two gold medals on that day.

01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:01,360
First for, so to say, the Olympic being accepted medal

01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,440
for working so hard on that project.

01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:08,680
And so to say, reaching that, and then also challenging

01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,200
the challenge, the steepest thing I've ever

01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:16,160
done with my bike, just getting that done on the same day.

01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,840
That was an incredible moment.

01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:24,440
And after that, after Innsbruck, I continued to Germany

01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:29,560
to my parents' home, 600 kilometers more to go.

01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,600
And when I left the Alps, there was another,

01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:36,120
it's the so-called Scharnpass Road.

01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:41,280
It's also a road which has huge traffic, just two lanes,

01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:42,960
one per direction.

01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:44,800
And everyone has to go on that road.

01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:48,200
And during the day, there's always traffic jams.

01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,320
So if you want to go there by bike,

01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:58,120
this is actually a suicide project, I would say.

01:24:58,120 --> 01:25:04,140
So I decided to go to cycle over the Scharnpass by night.

01:25:04,140 --> 01:25:07,680
And so I started at 10 in the evening

01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,280
and finished at 2 with an empty battery

01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,200
right at the German border.

01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,560
And then I was sleeping in my hammock below the solar roof

01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:18,760
for the first time.

01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:22,680
Never tested it before, and it was a fantastic experience.

01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:28,480
And now on my way back to Spain, I know the weak points.

01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:30,320
I collected a lot of data.

01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:33,720
I also published all the data of how much solar

01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:36,680
power did I consume, how much did I charge from the grid,

01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,680
and how was the efficiency, et cetera,

01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:42,840
how was the daily distance, the average speed, the altitude

01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:43,360
climb.

01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,320
And I got some really interesting insights

01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:46,840
from all of that data.

01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,400
So I now have to work on an improved level.

01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:55,620
And I'm trying to get, I will have an improved bike

01:25:55,620 --> 01:25:57,680
waiting for the way back to Spain.

01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:02,600
So I intend to go with the bike to Bilal.

01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:08,420
And I'm pretty sure I will get new records and even bigger

01:26:08,420 --> 01:26:10,040
distances with the bike.

01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,120
And yeah, we'll see.

01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:14,920
I mean, I also learned along the way

01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,200
that I'm not the only solar biker out there.

01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,140
In the very beginning, I thought I'm the first one with the idea.

01:26:20,140 --> 01:26:23,080
But along the way, I discovered that actually not new.

01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:24,960
And there is an organization out there,

01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,820
which is called the SunTrip, which

01:26:26,820 --> 01:26:31,280
is doing solar races things 2013.

01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:35,080
And they do way more impressive distance than I do.

01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:38,600
So hand bikes or just regular bikes?

01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,760
Well, a few hand bike, as I just know of one case,

01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:43,280
they are all pedaling a leg.

01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:45,320
So that's also a completely different level

01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:47,680
of what you can do there.

01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,280
And they also have recumbent bikes.

01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:52,360
They have velvo builds.

01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:58,560
So that's completely aerodynamic, packed

01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,400
recumbent bikes that they have, like it's

01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:02,920
the most efficient machine that you

01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:07,800
can have for converting human into a movement energy.

01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,920
And combine that with solar, and you

01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:14,280
get the most incredible, let's say, numbers.

01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,280
And you can get, so the record for that is at the moment

01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:22,760
on 475 kilometers on a single day.

01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,120
Yeah, imagine that.

01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,160
So in comparison to that, my 212 looks

01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:30,560
like I would say tiny.

01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:32,120
I guess it's like half.

01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:36,120
But do you have the data published

01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:38,320
anywhere of your journey?

01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:39,520
Yes.

01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:41,160
Yeah, I published the data.

01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,760
And I'm going to publish even more data and also

01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:45,420
my improvements.

01:27:45,420 --> 01:27:49,280
And I will evaluate every improvement I do

01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,840
and decide on, I will make it public.

01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:54,760
And I've filmed a lot.

01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,720
I will also edit the video about the journey

01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:01,960
et cetera, and cover more material in the future.

01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:03,640
And we'll see what goes.

01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,800
It's time consuming.

01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:07,080
But I just love it.

01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:11,800
It's like you cannot describe the feeling of you

01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:16,360
build something which completely on your own, which

01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:17,880
is way more than a bike.

01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:18,920
And it's less than a car.

01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:24,360
And it drives the distances that you could never think of before.

01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:26,480
And I did something which is completely impossible

01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:28,320
with a normal bike.

01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,680
And I just did it with a solar electric hand

01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,000
bike and a lot of luggage.

01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,240
Yeah, I'll link the videos that you had sent me

01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:39,760
as well in the description.

01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:41,840
Yes, and more to come soon there.

01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:46,600
So if I find the time aside my work and the ongoing project

01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:52,640
and climbing and everything else, I would need a 48 hours

01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:53,920
day actually.

01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,880
Yeah, that's a lot.

01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,720
But we'll keep an eye out.

01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:01,800
So yeah, for the last question, we'll

01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,720
bring it back to climbing.

01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:07,600
You mentioned that you actually mostly prefer outdoor climbing

01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,640
and do a lot more of that.

01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,040
What's been your proudest outdoor achievement

01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:13,280
in your life?

01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:15,440
Well, that's a tough question.

01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:24,760
My very first first ascent.

01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:26,840
All right.

01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:28,240
Where was it?

01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:33,120
And off with chimney.

01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,960
I don't like that, but OK.

01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,160
It was a scary thing.

01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:40,840
I saw the line.

01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:43,400
I saw like, I want to do this.

01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:47,480
How is the process?

01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:51,600
And I had people who taught me on that

01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:55,000
and showed me how to place bolts, et cetera.

01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,960
And that's how I started into that.

01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,960
And this is generally doing first ascent, I would say,

01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:09,400
will always stay something extraordinary.

01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,760
And just doing a hard project, for example.

01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:15,960
So yes, I also think about my hardest routes

01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,400
that I ever climbed, but I think the first ascent

01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:21,880
that I did there, those are all special memories

01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,880
because it's a process.

01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:26,600
You go somewhere, you see a line, you think about it,

01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,640
you clean it, and then you work on it,

01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,400
and you don't know, is it possible,

01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,480
or isn't it possible, whatever.

01:30:34,480 --> 01:30:39,880
And then hopefully there's a moment where you can climb it.

01:30:39,880 --> 01:30:43,040
And as I was saying, which is like bouldering

01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:49,800
is for your body, sport climbing is for your brain,

01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:52,080
and multi-pitch is for your soul.

01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,680
What was the first, like, did you name it?

01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,200
Or is it like, can you find it somewhere?

01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:57,960
Oh, yes.

01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's named, it's a German name.

01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:04,520
It's named Friedhofs Kamin.

01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:08,080
In English, that's a graveyard chimney.

01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,080
And it's named, it's always, you have to know,

01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,920
a name of a route always has to have connection

01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,680
to the route.

01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:19,560
And in this specific section, it's in Germany,

01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:30,400
and there were old queries where they cut off basalt columns

01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:32,600
for construction purpose.

01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,480
And so that they left big holes in the ground.

01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:40,120
And on those walls, there's climbing today.

01:31:40,120 --> 01:31:45,080
And in those holes in the past, also people dumped that trash.

01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:46,880
There was one, yeah.

01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:51,520
And there was one corner where the, I don't know how the word,

01:31:51,520 --> 01:32:00,280
there was the person who builds the graveyard blocks of where

01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:04,680
you inscribe the name, et cetera, on rock.

01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,440
I don't know what it's called, but yeah.

01:32:07,440 --> 01:32:09,360
Yeah, but someone is doing that, right?

01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:13,560
And sometimes they engrave things in the wrong way,

01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:15,840
or something breaks, whatever.

01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:24,240
And they put this trash also in those holes.

01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:28,960
And so below this chimney, I was doing my first ascent in,

01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:32,240
it was full of graveyard blocks where I just inscribed,

01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,080
oh, this was this name lived from, whatever.

01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:37,000
And you were standing on those blocks

01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:39,400
and climbing in the chimney down above.

01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:41,120
That's where the name is coming from.

01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:43,400
So I know you're not a story.

01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:44,040
Awesome.

01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:45,400
OK, good to know.

01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:52,160
And I guess that's a good place to end it,

01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,360
climbing on graveyard blocks.

01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,360
Yeah, that's all the questions I had.

01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:00,480
I guess, was there anything else you

01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:05,960
wanted to have a last word on, if not the graveyard blocks?

01:33:05,960 --> 01:33:10,160
That's where power climbing should not end, right?

01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:11,080
Yeah.

01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,320
Yeah, it's a bit dark.

01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:20,160
Yeah, I'm really proud of the whole community.

01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,480
And I want to thank everyone who was involved

01:33:22,480 --> 01:33:24,960
in the whole process until now.

01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:29,760
And as I said before, my life always

01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:32,840
puts me in a situation or gives me a presence where

01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,200
I would say the year before, it's never

01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:39,480
going to happen, or I don't even dare to dream of that.

01:33:39,480 --> 01:33:42,680
And I think this time now is the beginning of something

01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:47,960
completely new for the sport itself.

01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,720
And it will change the sport.

01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:54,600
And I expect there will be a big focus on power climbing,

01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:58,520
a focus which has never been seen before,

01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:02,880
because we are really unknown.

01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:09,880
Power climbing is not that known in the whole power sport

01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:10,400
family.

01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:12,800
And I think many sports didn't have it on their list,

01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:16,720
that power climbing actually did big steps in the last years.

01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:21,560
And so we will be on the biggest stage of the sport,

01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:23,920
of sports, of power sports, which is there in the world.

01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,000
And I'm proud that we will get the chance

01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,880
and show that there's almost no disability which

01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:30,960
can stop you from climbing.

01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,920
And just show that climbing is there for almost everyone.

01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,240
And we love climbing.

01:34:39,240 --> 01:34:42,680
And I hope that we can just share it with others

01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,760
and spread the word of power climbing.

01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:48,720
All right, that's a better statement to end on.

01:34:48,720 --> 01:34:52,800
So yeah, for people who want to follow your journey

01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:56,800
with the solar hand bike and climbing in general,

01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,200
where can they find you?

01:34:58,200 --> 01:34:59,400
Yeah, I'm on social media.

01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:01,760
You can just search my name.

01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,600
And also on YouTube, I hope I find a time to do more there.

01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:13,040
And yeah, that's why I'm going to document

01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:14,200
more things from my life.

01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:17,760
I also do conferences so far just in German.

01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:20,920
They're also on YouTube in full versions.

01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,560
I wrote a book also in German.

01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:28,560
So yeah, that's also part of me.

01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:32,560
But I don't do these things just for my own.

01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:39,120
I also share my experience, share my knowledge.

01:35:39,120 --> 01:35:42,800
And in order to, I always hope I can inspire others.

01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,960
Because I also got lots of inspiration from others.

01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:51,080
And I think humanity wouldn't be where it's now

01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,000
if we wouldn't share things.

01:35:54,000 --> 01:36:00,360
Otherwise, we would still sit somewhere in a cave

01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:03,680
and hide the fire from others that they don't see it.

01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:07,720
And I think it's very important that, yeah, share things,

01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:10,160
share experiences, share ideas.

01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:11,240
And that's what I do.

01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:13,240
I share the things that I experience in my life

01:36:13,240 --> 01:36:15,880
because I think it can inspire others to achieve bigger,

01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,040
to achieve greater things.

01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:19,240
That's what I do.

01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:23,040
And did you mention the name of your, or like, Instagram?

01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:25,160
Or your YouTube?

01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:29,520
Well, yeah, it's Sebastian Depke, basically, to go.

01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:32,120
It just, if you search my name, Sebastian Depke,

01:36:32,120 --> 01:36:35,560
you will find me on the different platforms.

01:36:35,560 --> 01:36:37,800
I'll leave the links in the description as well.

01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:39,360
OK, well, thank you for joining me.

01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,320
And it was amazing to talk to you.

01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:42,400
Thank you.

01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,680
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

01:36:45,680 --> 01:36:48,320
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,520
Otherwise, you are a super fake climber.

01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:53,720
If you're listening on a podcasting platform,

01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,000
I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars

01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:57,880
and you can continue the discussion

01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,920
on the free competition climbing Discord linked

01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,280
in the description.

01:37:02,280 --> 01:37:22,640
Thanks again for listening.