27: Jesse Grupper, Team USA Olympian

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I think the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them, definitely hit pretty hard.

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And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience.

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And having it not go the way I wanted it to, both because of injury and maybe some expectations,

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made it just hurt that much more.

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I kind of waffled a lot in the rope round.

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I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really fully commit to the

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move at hand.

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I mean, always going to look back on riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.

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It's time that climbing is treated like a real sport and this is the trajectory of it.

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So let's embrace it.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Jesse Grupper.

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Jesse used to be a lead specialist, but he recently came back from Paris where he was

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representing Team USA in the Olympics boulder and lead combined format.

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In this episode, he walks us through his entire Olympics experience from training through

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his first ever finger injury to balancing training with his engineering job to meeting

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other athletes at the Olympic Village.

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We'll also learn about some of his future climbing goals and volunteer work.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Jesse.

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Okay, so you are back in Salt Lake, right?

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Yeah, I am pretty excited about it.

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I feel like I've been on the roads, honestly, since the Olympics, just doing a lot of smaller

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trips either to family or outdoors.

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And yeah, I'm excited to be sleeping in a bed for more than like five days at a time.

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So yeah, should be a good time.

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Is Salt Lake like your actual base now?

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Pretty much.

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Yeah, I'm fairly nomadic, I would say, like for a lot of the year.

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But as far as like what I consider home to be right now, I would call it Salt Lake.

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Very nice.

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So you like actually have like a room and a bed and like.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I feel fortunate to be staying with Karakandi as well.

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He's a good friend of mine.

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And yeah, so it's been a really nice house vibe in Salt Lake.

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And yeah, I've been enjoying the scenes.

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And I honestly, this past year, I've not really climbed outside or explored the area because

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I've mostly been stuck in a gym training.

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So I'm really excited to be getting outside this season and getting to actually explore

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Salt Lake for what it has besides the gyms.

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Yeah, it's fun that you are staying with Kyra, I think.

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Just a bunch of climbers together.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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I mean, there are a lot of climbers now in Salt Lake.

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Like I feel like every year I'm like, wow, this person that I knew in like youth series

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is like here too.

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And I feel like a lot of people are like moving out here and it's becoming a really big scene,

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which you know, I like in some ways, don't like in other ways.

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But we can get into that later for sure.

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Yeah, seems like the place to be.

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How was your break after the Olympics?

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Did you do anything memorable?

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Yeah, so right after I was fortunate to have a day or two in Paris with like my family.

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And then I went to Magicwood with my sister and partner.

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And yeah, it was it was a ton of fun to be out there.

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I think at the same time, like, it was definitely a different experience than I was expecting.

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I think like the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them definitely hit pretty

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hard.

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I think I've just had this one goal for so long, you know, both in life and then also

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once I qualified, it was about like nine months away.

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And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience and having it

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not go the way I wanted to, both because of like injury and maybe some expectations made

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it just hurt that much more.

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So I think coming into Magicwood, even though it was supposed to be like, oh, this is going

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to be a fun trip in the forest, I think I definitely still had a lot of that weight

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to sort of unpack off my shoulders.

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So it wasn't all fun and games, but it was a beautiful place.

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And yeah, I wouldn't have traded it for any other experience.

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Yeah.

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And it will definitely get into the Olympics a little bit later.

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How long of a break did you end up taking before you started like climbing indoors again

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or like doing training?

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So I guess I took about seven days, like a week in Magicwood.

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And then I went to kind of like an island and did like kind of like a beach vacation,

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which I haven't done in almost my entire life.

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It was the first time.

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Yeah, like I guess I always like want to have like climbing nearby or if I like go on vacation,

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like I'm usually like hiking and being like pretty active.

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So it was definitely a different experience, but I definitely enjoyed it and it was a lot

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of fun.

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So we got like some outdoor time too.

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But wait, like even as a kid, you never just like went to the beach just to go to the beach.

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We would have like day trips to the beach, but I feel like like a week, week long trip,

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like no, not really.

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No, I guess I haven't either.

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I mean, a week is a pretty long time to spend just at a beach, just beach.

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Yeah.

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Well, I guess we also like hiked and yeah, I did some other stuff, but it was mainly

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there for like water time for sure.

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Which is good to do something different.

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Maybe take like, maybe take a trip to like a resort or something like that.

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Have you ever done that?

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No, no.

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Yeah, that always has intimidated me.

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Intimidated you?

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Yeah, I guess like I'm just scared that I'm not going to be able to leave and I'm going

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to be like stuck in this resort that I don't like, you know, like I feel like I like having

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a little bit of a independence and a vacation.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I have never done like a resort either, but it doesn't intimidate me.

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I just, I really wish I could.

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I just haven't been able to.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I mean that too.

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Like, I don't know.

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I feel like I don't want to, I'd rather save the money to like spend it on a climbing

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trip or something similar.

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Yeah, fair.

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I really desire like the pampering, but then when I think about it, I'm like, maybe I

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do want to have some more fun on this trip.

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I don't know yet.

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Yeah, yeah.

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What I did actually like two days after the games, I was like climbing back in a gym.

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I feel like climbing for me is definitely healing in a lot of ways.

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So I feel like it's like an important part of processing feelings and understanding myself.

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So I feel like it was important for me to like get back in there even if it wasn't

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the most fun or rewarding session.

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Was that in Paris?

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It was, yeah.

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Heard great things about the gyms there.

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Yeah, it's crazy for sure.

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They definitely have like some wild setting.

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You're not now not allowed to use like loose chalk though.

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So you're supposed to only use like, yeah, like liquid chalk, which is definitely an

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interesting change.

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And I feel like that's an adjustment.

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But apart from that, like it's awesome.

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Awesome.

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Well, let's get right into, I guess, learning about your climbing journey.

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For those who don't know, how did you get into climbing and then eventually competing?

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So I started climbing when I was pretty young.

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I was dragged to the gym with my sister and mom.

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My sister was taking classes at our local gym, New Jersey Rock Gym, and I couldn't

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just like sit on a couch.

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I had like so much energy.

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I was like running around the gym and my mom, as a way of coping with that, put me into

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climbing lesson classes.

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And yeah, even in climbing classes, you know, I don't know how familiar people are with

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that kind of setup.

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But a lot of the time, four of you are like sitting down and one person is like climbing.

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And I just like couldn't sit still.

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I felt like I was either bored or had to like run around.

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So I was constantly getting in trouble.

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And I think that the key for me was having someone who like was able to put that energy

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of like restlessness and wanting to just like constantly move into pushing me and climbing.

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So like recognizing that and being able to use it towards something positive, like progressing

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in the sport, really helped me find my focus as a young, oblivious, crazy kid.

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And yeah, I haven't looked back since then.

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And maybe I still have some of those characteristics as well.

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Nice.

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And then after like how long after do you start entering in competitions?

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Yeah, so I started competing when I was about nine years old.

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And I don't know, I didn't know what the heck I was doing.

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Like I was just like, oh, like, cool.

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Like I get to do more new climbs.

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And I think that the friends that I met along the way really inspired me and got me excited

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to keep pushing myself.

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And then I think there was definitely an age, maybe like around like 12 or 13, where I was

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like, oh, this means something to me.

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This is really important.

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And I think losing some of that obliviousness made me rethink and have a lot more pressure

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on myself.

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And I had to re-figure out what I wanted out of climbing around that age.

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Wow, trying to figure out what you want out of climbing at 12 years old sounds kind of

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wild.

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Does your sister still climb?

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She does.

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Yeah, she's actually in Australia now.

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So she's not doing as many competitions, but still climbs outside.

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And yeah, like for instance, we went on a trip to Magicwood.

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So I think it's a really special bond that we have that we're able to push each other

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and be able to do what we love together.

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Yeah, that's super nice.

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Yeah, so you mentioned that at 12, you felt the pressure to, I guess, decide your life

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path.

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What was the outcome of that?

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Did you decide then and there that this is what you were going to do?

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Yeah, so my coach had left our team and I really respected and admired her philosophy

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and process towards climbing.

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So I ended up deciding that I would fully train alone.

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And of course, I had friends at the gym who I climbed with, but my coach sent me workouts

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starting around 12 years old.

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And that's kind of how I feel like I learned to be dedicated and focused in climbing.

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She would send me workouts, I would do them, I would tell her how they went.

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And that was kind of the process that I built up over time with her.

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And I think gaining that kind of independence of understanding that the work that I'm putting

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in, it's up to me to get these workouts and find this fitness on the wall, meant that

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I really saw that process of hard work leads to better results.

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And I think that as a result, I think that I've carried that with me for a really long

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time.

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I'm not recommending that people stop training at their gym facilities or their youth teams

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just because it worked out for me.

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But I do think that I found someone who I really enjoyed training with and I would maybe

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see her once a month or so or at competitions.

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And it just worked really well for me and it helped me find a good balance of pushing

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myself in the sport while also finding my love and joy in it as well.

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And so then I guess getting into your IFSC competition history, when was your first comp

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there?

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Did you do the youth circuit?

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Yeah, so I did do the youth circuit.

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In 2012 was my first youth world championship and it went pretty bad, I would say.

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But I think that really opened up my eyes to the level that was out there.

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And I think that for me, it's really hard to push yourself when you don't have a good

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image of what others are capable of.

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So I think coming back from that competition, I was incredibly motivated and I really wanted

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one more shot at that level of competition.

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I didn't really think that I'd make it as a climber or anything like that, but I just

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really loved the process of getting to see this futuristic level and then getting to

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work on building myself up to try to compete at that level.

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And I think, of course, competition, you are doing some comparison, but really it was about

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how far I could go and how far I could push myself that I tried to focus on more than

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anything.

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You also took a break in 2019.

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Was that for work?

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Yeah.

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So I guess maybe to back up a little bit, I had done my first season of IFC World Cups

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in 2019 and I think that I really loved it.

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I also think that I had spent four years studying mechanical engineering and I think that I

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was curious about that passion being pushed forward, what that would look like.

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So I think that I had had this experience in climbing where I was like, I love this,

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I think it's really cool, but I also want to understand what the engineering world could

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look like.

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So I took a, I guess I would call it a break, but really it was pushing my curiosity with

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an engineering.

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So I think I was still climbing throughout that time, still pushing myself in various

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ways getting outside.

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But I think for me, getting to see what engineering could provide for others and how it would

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make me feel was really important to me.

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And so I took about two, two and a half years to work in a mechanical engineering lab and

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I'm actually still working in that same lab part time today, but it meant that I could

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really see that path through, see what it looked like.

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And then two years later down the line, I was like, well, World Cups were pretty sick

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and climbing outside is really cool and I wonder if I can, maybe I can give one last

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chance to this dream that I've had since I was little and not fully let that up while

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I could still choose what I could do and didn't just age with climbing naturally.

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Well glad you made that decision.

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Yeah, so like quick detour to just talk about your work a little bit.

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I think this was something people were really interested in in terms of how you balance

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employment and training and climbing and competing.

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So I guess in that time after 2019, were you like working full time and still training

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or did you just like completely give up your climbing goals at that time?

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Yeah, I never gave up climbing.

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I think that I just became really regimented and efficient with the timing.

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That was something that I feel like throughout college and before in high school, like I

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always was sort of like on a schedule and I found that I became more efficient in the

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gym when I had less time because I had school or you know, various like clubs and activities

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to do.

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I like my work life balance was a little crazy for sure.

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Like I would work 9 to 5.36 whatever and then go straight to a gym for maybe three, three

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and a half hours and then go home, have dinner, go to bed and then sort of repeat.

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And I think that I loved it, like I think I felt like I was really living like a fulfilled

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life.

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I think that it definitely didn't mean that I could be at the top of my game in climbing.

00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:54,320
But as I pictured what just climbing would look like, I think that I missed some of that.

00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,680
Well one, like I think I'm really passionate about the work that I was doing.

00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,560
I think that it's meaningful to me to work for something beyond just myself, which I

00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,880
feel like a lot of the time is what I sort of view my climbing as.

00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,160
But in addition, I think that you know, I can't climb every day or else my fingers would

00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,440
fall off and all my skin would be gone.

00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:20,300
So I think that having rest days and this is especially true honestly when I'm in competition

00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:26,960
mode, I have to have more rest and rather than just sit and think about climbing, sitting

00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:33,560
and thinking about like engineering challenges or ways that I could help other people is

00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,720
important to me and helps me feel like if I'm not doing my best in climbing, at least

00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,960
there's something else that I provide to the world.

00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:47,200
So nowadays you said you're working part time and I guess like remote?

00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,200
Yeah, exactly.

00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,760
Yeah, for the same lab.

00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,320
So then how does your training fit into that now?

00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,440
Are you still, do you like train every day?

00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,200
What's your schedule look like there?

00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,840
Yeah, so training is a little different now, which I guess we can get into in a little

00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,080
bit because I still have a hurt finger.

00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:10,480
So I'm trying not to put the pedal to the metal, but basically like on rest days will

00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,520
be like work days.

00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:17,120
So I'll have more of a focus on catching up on engineering work.

00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:21,720
It's a little bit more loose about the schedule that I have.

00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,080
Having like weekly meetings is a part of it.

00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:31,560
Basically, I'll go like two days on one day off, kind of repeating indefinitely and on

00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,400
the rest days will be like the main work days and maybe I'll answer like emails or do some

00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,320
small jobs after a climbing session as well.

00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,320
Okay, good to hear how you balance it.

00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,960
I do want to, it's been a while since I've interviewed like a lead specialist.

00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:53,640
I just wanted to get some new competition climbing lead questions out there if that

00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,640
works for you.

00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:55,640
Yeah, for sure.

00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:56,640
Let's do it.

00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:02,840
Yeah, so as I guess sort of a lead specialist, how often do you get stressed that you only

00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,160
get like one shot in lead?

00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,280
Or do you like train to make no mistakes somehow?

00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,320
Whoa, that's a really good question.

00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,480
I think for me, I don't really think about, I think it's okay to make mistakes and it's

00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,800
okay to like not be at your best.

00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,480
And I think that that's the only way that you will be at your best if that makes sense.

00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,520
I think that like from the outside, it definitely looks like, wow, you have like one chance

00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840
that's like so intimidating.

00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,680
And I think it can be and I think that's gotten under my skin plenty of times.

00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:42,200
But I think the more time that I focus on just the climbing and not how stressful it

00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,360
is that, you know, if I fall, that's it.

00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,640
The better it turns out for me.

00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:53,000
And I think like for a qualifiers, it's, you know, you have two routes.

00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:59,040
So like I always think like, okay, like the next one can go better if this one is completely

00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,040
bad.

00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,640
But yeah, definitely semis and finals can be stressful.

00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:08,640
And I've, you know, had my fair share of poor moments in both rounds.

00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,920
But at the end of the day, like, you know, one round doesn't define who you are as a

00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:14,920
climber.

00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:20,800
And I think that just continually building experience over time helps you be the best

00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,760
climber that you can be and build that confidence on that stage.

00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,040
Okay, interesting.

00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:31,360
Yeah, I've, I've always been curious because, I mean, I'm mainly just boulder, but I feel

00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:37,000
like if I was on a lead route, like a semis or finals lead route, and it was like my one

00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,640
shot and then I slipped early, that would be, it'd just be such a bummer.

00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,920
Like you didn't get to show what you're capable of.

00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:46,920
Yeah, for sure.

00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,280
I mean, but I think that's like the cool part about having most World Cups, like, you know,

00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,600
if you make a mistake in one, like you have another one like the next week or two.

00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,520
But you know, I think it is something that is really hard about the sport and something

00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,560
that is unforgiving about it.

00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,760
But also that's something that I like love about it as well, that it makes it more exciting

00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,760
to me.

00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:15,340
It makes it feel more freeing in some ways too, because I feel like when I'm on the wall,

00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:18,360
this is like, yeah, the only thing that matters.

00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:25,600
And once I come off the wall, either at the top or lower down, that's it, like the competition's

00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:31,320
over and I don't need to think about it, or I can think about it as much as I want to.

00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,800
So, you know, and I've definitely had both of those experiences where a comp will like

00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,960
haunt me for a while or I'll just move on and go to the next one and just be like, okay,

00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,560
that was, you know, not the experience I was hoping for, but remember all these times that

00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,400
I've done well in competition and let's use that as motivation and confidence into this

00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,400
next round.

00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:59,760
Do you remember like the last time you slipped really early in a round or like made a big

00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:00,760
mistake?

00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,000
I mean, I would say the Olympics is kind of that.

00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,360
I kind of like waffled a lot in like the rope round.

00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:13,800
I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really like fully commit to

00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,360
the move at hand.

00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,920
In part, maybe it was a little bit like finger related in retrospect, but really I think

00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:27,560
that I just wasn't confident in my sequence on the wall and that cost me.

00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:34,160
My like foot did like slip off, but you know, I was definitely in control and just was thinking

00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,720
about other things rather than the movement fully at hand.

00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,200
Was it just like about, you said you were thinking about other things.

00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:47,040
Was it just about the whole Olympic experience or what was on your mind?

00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:54,440
I think, well, for one, like I felt my finger, but I also tried to put like a high toe hook,

00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,640
which was like one of the intended ways of like doing the sequence.

00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,120
It didn't feel right for me.

00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:05,080
And then trying to switch to a new way of doing it, I kind of got nervous and was like,

00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,520
oh, is this the right way? And I like really had a lot of like questioning in my mind,

00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,200
which is exactly like, you know, the reason why they put moves up there like that is to

00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,240
make you second guess yourself.

00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,520
And I did just that.

00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,880
So I guess it's kind of just like about the confidence and just making a decision.

00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,440
Yeah, for sure.

00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:25,440
For sure.

00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,760
Yeah, that's a lot of what lead comes down to because, you know, everyone in finals, I

00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:36,040
would say, has the ability to, you know, climb 9A or like 9A plus and, you know, do the route

00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,040
at hand.

00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,160
But it's about whether you can put it all together in that one moment.

00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:42,600
Okay.

00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,880
And I also learned that in bouldering, semis is the hardest round.

00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,200
Do you feel like it's similar for lead where the semis route is harder than like a finals

00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,200
route?

00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:53,200
It usually is.

00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,840
Yeah, I think that in finals, they're looking for more tops and more people to get further

00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,840
on it.

00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,320
In semis, they're like, okay, whatever, we can like, you know, beat people down and make

00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:04,920
it really hard.

00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:06,920
And like that's okay.

00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,000
I think it makes semis like really exciting.

00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,880
And it also makes it a little bit more nerve wracking for the athletes as well.

00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,300
So for the Olympics, you've been preparing your bouldering a lot.

00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:23,520
At this point, after all the bouldering training, do you still feel nervous when you approach

00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,280
like a dynamic boulder or like a slabby boulder?

00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,920
I definitely feel nervous, but I think it's maybe not the same level of like nerves as

00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,920
I would feel in lead, mainly because of what you mentioned before, where I know that if

00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,580
I fall, I can try again.

00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:43,520
And I think that especially in this format where falls truthfully like don't really

00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:49,000
matter, like they're minus 0.1 and in a 200 point round, it's like, you know, a drop

00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,000
in the bucket.

00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:56,320
So I feel like for me, it's really about just consistently trying a move, learning a move

00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:02,600
and you know, figuring it out more so than being nervous that I'm like not doing the

00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,160
movement at hand.

00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,180
I definitely get like frustrated and annoyed at myself if I like haven't done certain moves

00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:11,800
after like a bouldering round.

00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,440
But especially in that format, I feel like I'm not frustrated about like falling more

00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:23,520
or I'm not frustrated about just having a lack of understanding of a movement from the

00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,120
first time that I try it, as long as I can just try to do better.

00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:34,960
And even, you know, at least in training that can include maybe never doing the move, but

00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,400
just making progress on it is really important to me.

00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,140
Yeah, yeah, I guess I didn't mean in terms of like only having one shot or like only

00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:44,800
having a few tries.

00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:51,120
But I mean, for me, if I there's times when I look at a boulder and I'm like, oh, I don't

00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:54,360
think this is something I could ever do.

00:24:54,360 --> 00:25:01,360
So I'm just kind of wondering, like, if you ever look at a boulder and still feel that

00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:06,520
way, especially when it's like more dynamic or slab, because you don't get that practice

00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,600
as much in lead routes.

00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:15,640
Yeah, I think I think like I definitely feel like I'm not sure how this movement is going

00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:16,640
to go.

00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,880
Let me just try it sometimes and figure it out sort of on the wall.

00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,320
And I think that's really like, you know, hit me hard sometimes where like, I don't

00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,400
know how to do it still, even when I'm on the wall, or I am not sure how to commit to

00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,480
the movement at hand, because I haven't figured out before.

00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,560
But I think really like visualizing movement from the ground has been really helpful for

00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:40,600
me with bouldering.

00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:45,360
And it's honestly pushed my lead climbing as well, like, not just picturing, you know,

00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,240
which hand goes where, but like, where are my hips going to be when I do this movement?

00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:55,240
Where where like are my feet going to swing out into?

00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,960
I think that just like some more subtle things to really think about the position of the

00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:06,080
movement rather than just the movement of like, right hand left hand here, has been

00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:12,120
kind of a progression in my climbing, I would say, and in my like, you know, route reading

00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:13,120
as a whole.

00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,120
Makes sense.

00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:20,360
And so then, I guess going into the Olympics a bit, what was your strategy for the combined

00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:21,360
format?

00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:26,400
I mean, it looks like you decided to work really hard on boulder.

00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,560
Did you ever consider just like doubling down on lead only?

00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,200
Yeah, it's funny, like, in retrospect, like, I feel like bouldering didn't actually like

00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,200
matter that much.

00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,880
It really mattered, like, who could just get past like the bottom crux in in lead, as far

00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,520
as like who would progress to finals.

00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Of course, it like mattered in the grand scheme.

00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:52,080
But like, Tomoa, for instance, like, had one of the highest bouldering scores.

00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,220
But because he didn't get past the crux on the lead route, he wasn't able to progress

00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:59,320
to finals, which I think is like a bummer.

00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,280
But that's kind of how the combined format goes sometimes.

00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,280
So I think that like for...

00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,120
Oh, sorry, was the...

00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,840
So I mean, yeah, the boulder run in semis was really difficult.

00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,080
I remember that.

00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,080
Was the...

00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,640
Oh, the semis lead route was the one where everyone had that foot slip, right?

00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,640
Yeah, exactly.

00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,400
Yeah, there were like six or seven people who like, yeah, fell in the same move, for

00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,400
sure.

00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,400
So yeah, it was kind of crazy for sure.

00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,320
Like it was very unexpected, I would say.

00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,260
And yeah, so I think that in retrospect, like, would practicing like lead have yielded a

00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:35,600
different result?

00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,880
I think probably.

00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,160
But I also think that like the same could have been reverse where, you know, maybe the

00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,960
boulder round would have been a little bit softer and it mattered more getting like each

00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,200
top than like the lead route.

00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,840
Maybe everyone had like a bottleneck on the lead route and which has happened like in

00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,120
plenty of other comps.

00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,380
So I think that coming into it, I just really wanted to feel like the most confident all-around

00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:01,040
climber that I could.

00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,400
And I think that I really did feel that way.

00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,960
Of course, like I wasn't able to train like the way I wanted to do the finger injury,

00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,000
but I think that I split my time throughout the year so that I focused on bouldering more

00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,760
in the beginning and then ended on more ropes, honestly, than bouldering like almost like

00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,100
60-40 or 70-30 towards like lead.

00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:31,880
So that I would feel more confident in the thing that I feel the most like talented in

00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,880
from the get-go.

00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,880
I really do feel like I find a lot of joy in like training lead and I feel like it makes

00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,960
me fall into like a good headspace.

00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,320
So I think that that was really important like leading up to the Olympics.

00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:50,220
Yeah, did you, when you like went back into training lead again, did you feel like boulder

00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:52,460
training worsened your lead climbing ability?

00:28:52,460 --> 00:28:54,500
Was that ever a fear?

00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:59,480
I think that it wasn't a fear that it would like worsen it just by doing it, but just

00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,720
that I would like lose some time training lead by doing it.

00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:12,120
Like I really think that like part of like why I got injured maybe was just because of

00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,960
like the high load that I had on myself, like weightlifting, bouldering training, lead training,

00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:24,720
all kind of like confounding into one and then going into like a smaller competition.

00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,440
I think that, you know, adding a lot of like pressure just like went to like a melting

00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,380
pot that kind of like maybe exploded a little bit too soon.

00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:39,560
So I think that for me like that's definitely something that I'm interested in focusing

00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,080
on just like the load as a whole and making sure to control that as best I can.

00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,400
Yeah, I guess we can get into this finger injury.

00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:55,080
How early did it happen before the Olympics and like what specifically was the injury?

00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,980
Please excuse this brief intermission, but I've gotten a few requests for this.

00:29:58,980 --> 00:30:04,080
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Back to the show.

00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah, so it's a flexor tendon injury.

00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:45,560
I basically jumped to kind of like a slot hold and kind of hit it almost four, but then

00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,120
like slipped to a three finger drag.

00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:54,360
So my flexor tendon like it goes all the way down from like the base of my ring finger

00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,960
to almost my elbow, honestly.

00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,480
And I felt it at the base of my elbow.

00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800
Or I guess like right above the elbow.

00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,160
And I was like, oh, that feels strange, but I didn't actually think that much of it.

00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,560
So the next day I like came back to the gym.

00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,800
It definitely was like way weaker and it felt a little off.

00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,000
But I was like, okay, like I've had some like slight tweaks in my fingers before.

00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,380
So I'm sure it's like just that.

00:31:20,380 --> 00:31:24,000
Kept climbing on it for the next week or so.

00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
And then I got it like, but then it didn't fully go away.

00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:36,320
So I got it assessed by like RPT like Zach DeCristino and I could like barely just like

00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,120
put weight on it by itself.

00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,560
So we were like, oh, I guess that's like pretty bad.

00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:47,040
And he was, so I decided to take a little bit of like time off.

00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,740
But with his guidance, that was like quite hard because I had a couple of competitions

00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:55,240
coming up, including like the Salt Lake World Cup.

00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:04,000
But so I took like 10 days off and then slowly started just doing like light jug traversing.

00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,800
But honestly, yeah, it didn't really go away for a long time.

00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:15,740
I missed like the Salt Lake World Cup, which was like in the middle of May, I think.

00:32:15,740 --> 00:32:19,420
And then I was like, okay, well, like, you know, my experience with finger injuries and

00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:25,440
what he's telling me, like, it'll be back online at most, like, or at worst case scenario,

00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,280
it'll be ready to go in like 12 weeks, which would be a bummer because I miss Innsbruck.

00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:35,560
But at least I'm able to train leading up to like the Games.

00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,800
And it did definitely improve, but it never fully went away.

00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,280
And I think that for me, it was really important to like, like the Olympics kind of was like

00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,280
a dream.

00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,320
It was something that I was like, look forward to.

00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280
And I didn't want to be like an idiot and like make it significantly worse.

00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,440
But I also didn't want to not do my best in the competition.

00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,600
So it was a really challenging balance to find.

00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,920
You know, as an athlete, we're constantly asking a lot of our bodies.

00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:09,560
And I think that this was like the testament of that, of it feels like it's okay sometimes,

00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,720
but I don't really know how far to push it.

00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,080
So I really looked for PT guidance.

00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,480
I've also been working with Carrie Cooper a decent amount, getting several opinions

00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,120
on it.

00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,080
And I think that throughout all of my training, it definitely was like acting up.

00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,120
But kind of our rule is that if it can go away within like 30 seconds after you get

00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,620
off the wall.

00:33:32,620 --> 00:33:37,600
So say I like feel it while I'm climbing, I come down and it's still there.

00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:45,680
That's like, okay, but if it doesn't go away as far as like an achiness sensation, then

00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,400
I'm pushing it too hard.

00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,960
So I shouldn't like try a climb like that again.

00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,520
And I think that there were a lot of situations where it's like, oh, this is close because

00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,760
it's like, you know, 25 seconds or like just about 30 seconds.

00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,800
And it's like, does that mean I should try it again?

00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,000
I'm not sure.

00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:09,160
So I think that, yeah, so I think that I definitely pushed it as close to the limit as I could

00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:10,920
leading up to the games.

00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,800
And I think that, yeah, I just never fully went away.

00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,200
And I think that even today, like I'm still fighting it.

00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,920
Yesterday I had a PT session.

00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,400
And one of the first things we did was like using a dynamometer, like just testing my

00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,940
like general grip strength.

00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:35,900
So my like right hand is still like 30 pounds weaker than my like left.

00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:37,080
So I don't know.

00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,320
It's like definitely frustrating because it's definitely been here for so long.

00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:47,760
But I think it's also just because of that, you know, Olympic pressure that I put on myself.

00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,120
I haven't been able to give it the time that it needs to heal.

00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,160
And I'm really hopeful that I still have like the opportunity to do that this fall.

00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,160
Yeah.

00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,800
Have you ever had a finger injury that lasted this long?

00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,720
Yeah, I've never actually had finger injuries, I guess, knock on wood.

00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,200
So I think that I think that's actually part of it too, is like I don't have the experience

00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:12,900
to understand when I'm pushing it too hard because I haven't had anything like this before.

00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,560
Like even in the beginning, like I said, like I climbed on it just because I didn't really

00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,780
understand how severe it was at the time.

00:35:19,780 --> 00:35:23,280
So I think looking back, that would have, you know, been one of the biggest changes

00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,240
that I would have had for myself.

00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:26,240
Just like understanding.

00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,120
No, this is like serious.

00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,280
Like you should take a little bit more time off, give it the chance to heal then so that

00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,060
you're not dealing with it like many months in the future.

00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:36,060
So yeah.

00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:37,060
Yeah.

00:35:37,060 --> 00:35:41,760
So then leading up to Olympics, what was your training schedule looking like?

00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,960
I'm assuming it was like you weren't working at that time.

00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,040
I was still working part time.

00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,720
I think that, yeah, like I said before, I think that just like having that balance really

00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,560
helps me mentally and especially actually with an injury.

00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Like I think that being able to succeed in other things, like it was really nice to have

00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:06,520
that like, yeah, extra experience as well or other things to focus on.

00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,640
Because I think climbing was definitely, you know, getting to me a bit.

00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,760
Like I think that, you know, rather than pushing myself to like new levels, like I was just

00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,200
trying to catch up to where I had been before, which mentally was like definitely a challenge

00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,560
and something that I struggled with a lot.

00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,080
You know, I think that it's just one of those events that you like want to be in peak shape

00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:37,320
and it was just a real struggle to, you know, mentally deal with this idea that I'm not

00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,040
going to be in peak shape, but I can try to get as close as I can to it.

00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,040
But what does that mean?

00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,980
And am I really progressing my session to session and what does this look like?

00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:51,000
So I did keep like a journal leading up to the Olympics of like accomplishments and each

00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,240
day that I would go into the gym, I would try to like look for something positive that

00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,440
I had done in a session.

00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,920
Maybe it was like sending a climber circuit that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was

00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,360
like sending like a boulder that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was just as simple

00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:12,120
as like, hey, like last time, like I wasn't able to last through like five circuits and

00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,120
this time I was.

00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,760
So that's like a check and like something that I approved on.

00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,920
So I think, yeah, just like finding the small wins was like super important mentally for

00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,880
me, like leading up to the Olympics.

00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,920
And honestly, I think that any climber who maybe is like, you know, maybe in a bit of

00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,800
a plateau or like feeling like they're not improving, keeping some kind of like journal

00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,720
like that, I think really helped me like stay positive towards my training.

00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:39,520
Well, I guess in what ways do you feel like your finger held you back leading up to the

00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,800
Olympics and during?

00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,680
There was definitely some movement that I couldn't do.

00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:49,340
So like maybe jumping to like smaller crimps or maybe we'd have like coordination moves

00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:51,840
on like bouldering rounds that I was trying.

00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:59,160
We had like a campus move in the Chamonix like, the finals that I went to that was just

00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,320
basically like a campus move on crimps.

00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:06,960
And I think that it's hard because always like mentally I'm like, oh, is it just that

00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,280
mentally I'm not confident in this kind of movement or is it that my finger is really

00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,240
hurting a lot and I can't do it?

00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:19,760
And I feel like finding that balance of understanding and being able to be confident even in something

00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:26,320
that isn't working fully right is really hard versus like knowing when to just like take

00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,120
a step back because this is too hard and this isn't, you know, the proper thing to be doing

00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,560
to make sure that I'm the most healthy that I can be.

00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,560
A lot of coordination moves too, like I would maybe feel it the first couple of times and

00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,120
I would be like, oh, should I keep trying it and it's confusing because maybe the second

00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,640
time I don't feel it, but the first time I felt it and the third time I felt it.

00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:54,040
So it's like, yeah, a really interesting space to be in and something that I've learned a

00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:03,880
lot about like how mentally to be able to push myself, but also take like restraint

00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:10,080
and try to limit myself as well because yeah, like as I said, like as an athlete, like I

00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:18,600
feel like my job is to push, is to dig deep, is to find new levels of understanding of

00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,360
what I can do.

00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:26,400
At the same time, I think that we're learning more and more that it's as important for athletes

00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,120
to take grace towards themselves so that they can live to be the best athlete for a longer

00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,120
time.

00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:38,640
I feel like being an athlete in the sport for, you know, when I'm 80 and still like

00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,080
showing up to your crag and trying to, you know, set a project there is like really important

00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,080
to me.

00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,620
So I don't want to be like a broken body after every like Olympics I've been to and every

00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:51,720
World Cup that I've wanted to achieve.

00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:55,960
Like I really want it to be a long lasting pursuit for me where I'm constantly able to

00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,360
find out what I'm capable of given the body that I have.

00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,100
Yeah, definitely.

00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:06,080
So then going forward with the finger injury, I mean, it sounds like you're still dealing

00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,500
it with it to this day.

00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,960
But you're also doesn't really seem like you're taking a break.

00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,820
So is that like something where you should continue climbing on it?

00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:21,160
Or do you think giving it a bigger break would be helpful?

00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,840
Yeah, so this is definitely something that I've asked, you know, the PTs that I've worked

00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,120
with.

00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:34,120
I think that I did take like a week off and I think that it seems like it might help a

00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:35,120
little bit.

00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:43,240
But my understanding is that like most finger injuries benefit from loading in some way.

00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:48,280
So I guess like, you know, like 20 years ago or whatever, if you like hurt a finger, it

00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,000
was like, okay, like to stop climbing.

00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,080
And then when it's healed, like come back.

00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:57,160
But I think a lot of the more like modern research shows that like loading it does help

00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,440
it heal faster.

00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,520
But I think it's about being smart with that loading.

00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,600
And I'm not saying that like I've always been smart, especially like leading up to the training

00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:06,600
for the Olympics.

00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,800
Like, I think, as I said, I was really trying to find that edge of letting it heal, but

00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:16,200
also like get my body to its like highest capability that I could be going into the

00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,200
competition.

00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:23,400
So I think now I'm falling back a little bit where I'm like, okay, it's not time to like

00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,580
push to try to be like in Olympic shape.

00:41:26,580 --> 00:41:31,880
So like, let's try to push it more safely.

00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,320
So maybe that's like, right now, it looks more like limiting my climbing to about like

00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:44,600
80% of where I was at before, but trying to include more like finger strengthening exercises.

00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,860
So that's been like three finger drive like repeaters for me on a hangboard.

00:41:49,860 --> 00:41:54,840
And going into this week, I'll be doing starting to do like weighted hangs actually, which

00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,520
I'm kind of excited for as well.

00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,440
Like I would say that I've had strong fingers for a long time, but I don't think that my

00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,240
fingers I've always wondered like, you know, if I push my fingers a little bit more, what

00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:07,240
they could do.

00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:11,400
So I think it'll be, you know, as far as like trying to stay optimistic, which I think is

00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,400
really important for injuries.

00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,640
I think that trying to look at it as like an opportunity to grow as a climber is important.

00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,160
And I'm not saying that I've done that, you know, every week.

00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,480
And I think more weeks than not, I've definitely just been bummed about it.

00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,880
But I think like, especially starting this new cycle of like strengthening, I'm pretty

00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,720
excited to, you know, see what that can do for my climbing as a whole.

00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,560
Okay, well, best of luck to you there.

00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,280
I hope that your finger gets better soon.

00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,960
It's been a while.

00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,160
Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy.

00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:50,140
So then back to the Olympics, just the Olympics in general, not even the climbing part.

00:42:50,140 --> 00:42:52,880
How was your like Olympic Village experience?

00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,320
Was there anything surprising there for you?

00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:56,320
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:02,280
I mean, always going to look back on like riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.

00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,780
And I think that that was like pretty crazy.

00:43:04,780 --> 00:43:10,680
Like I think I wasn't fully prepared or like understand understood the idea that like,

00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,240
LeBron was just like treated equally, like, you know, having like Simone or other great

00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:19,960
like athletes like just like walking down the street and, you know, staying in the same

00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,240
places that we were like, I think that that was just mind boggling as like a climber just

00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:28,360
because, you know, like, we're definitely like treated really well now, like going into

00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,720
like World Cups, like, you know, we actually have like hotel rooms and like places to stay

00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:38,320
and like accommodation that like is like mostly figured out.

00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:43,400
But I feel like there it just felt like I was treated fully like an athlete, like a

00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:50,960
professional and my needs were like, yeah, fully met from, you know, food to laundry

00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:55,280
to, you know, if we want to get like haircuts or like have like doctor appointments, like

00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,120
it really felt like almost like socialist society where it's like everyone gets the

00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,100
same gets equal treatment, but treatment is like very out of the high level.

00:44:05,100 --> 00:44:08,400
Like we wear the same clothing, like we're all given like the same clothes.

00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,400
And of course you have like a little bit of choice, but it all has like similar emblems

00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:13,880
and signs on it.

00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,160
So yeah, it was a it was a really like special experience.

00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:22,400
And yeah, one that I'll always like cherish like the memories of for sure.

00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Anyone, any like other athlete that you met that you kind of like fanboyed over?

00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,640
For sure.

00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,920
I mean, I think that well, I'll say two things.

00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:38,320
One was that I think it was really interesting to have other athletes that in other sports

00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:39,680
like be like, oh, you're a climber.

00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:40,680
Like that's so cool.

00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,680
Or I even had I don't know, I feel weird like saying this, like I don't mean it as like

00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:52,240
a brag, but like I had like a volleyball player like recognize me in an elevator.

00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:57,400
And I feel like that's just like so strange, like like to have climbing be at that level

00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,020
where like other athletes are like recognizing the athletes and other in like our sport is

00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:07,360
just really a change in scenery, I would say.

00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:12,280
As far as like, yeah, being a fanboy, like, I don't know, Brooke and I like talked to

00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:17,380
like Jordan Childs like at one point, and I feel like that was like a cool experience.

00:45:17,380 --> 00:45:23,640
I think that we had conversations with like the women's basketball team, which is like

00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,760
super cool.

00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,120
I met like some of like the rowing team and of course, like a ton of other athletes.

00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:35,960
My mom is like a artistic swimmer and I got to like meet some of the artistic swimmers

00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:36,960
there.

00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,520
So I was definitely being a fanboy over that for sure.

00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:40,520
Cool.

00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,160
I had no idea that your mom was an artistic swimmer.

00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,160
That's so interesting.

00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,160
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,160
Like she competed or?

00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:48,160
She still does actually.

00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,160
Yeah.

00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,360
Yeah, it's pretty cool for sure.

00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,360
That's right.

00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,360
Get some of my grit from.

00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:59,920
Yeah, I guess not an Olympic level or did she ever do like Olympic competitions and that?

00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:05,800
No, yeah, she's done world competitions, but are like international events, but she kind

00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,120
of started I think in her 20s.

00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,400
So she's been doing it for like a long time.

00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,800
She also does like shows and stuff like that as well, which is like quite cool.

00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,800
It's cool.

00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,520
Yeah, it's cool to know that like a volleyball player knows about climbing, but maybe that's

00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:26,160
something we should like try to get more used to because that means I mean, it's like almost

00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:30,520
kind of sad that we're just like, oh, well, no one should know about climbing.

00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,360
Like that would be weird if people knew about that.

00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:34,840
Yeah, yeah.

00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,520
Yeah, I still get surprised when people tell me that they like watched like climbing in

00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,920
the Olympics, but I don't know, maybe maybe we shouldn't be surprised.

00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,880
It's time to stop being surprised.

00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,240
Yeah, for sure.

00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:53,740
I mean, as like the yeah, older dude in the sport, it's like it's just so crazy to see

00:46:53,740 --> 00:46:56,040
it transition and change over time.

00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,280
And I think that I'm still like biased by my perception of like, I don't know, being

00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:05,380
picked on for climbing like as a kid in like high school or or like middle school.

00:47:05,380 --> 00:47:07,120
So I feel like that.

00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:12,760
Yeah, impression of it from the outside world is still with me a little bit, but you're

00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,760
totally right.

00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,120
Like I think that it's time that like climbing is like treated like a real sport and like

00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,500
this is like the trajectory of it.

00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:21,000
So let's embrace it.

00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,660
Yeah, very exciting.

00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:27,760
And so yeah, you talked about afterwards the post Olympic blues.

00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:29,800
I think I've heard about that a little bit.

00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,080
But how did that manifest for you?

00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,680
Yeah, I think that, you know, even to this day, like, I still feel like there's like

00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,880
a piece of me that that has it.

00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,920
Basically, like, I think that if you're going to focus on one goal for so long, and have

00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:48,720
it not go the way you want it to, it's going to be really hard to jump back from that and

00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,720
re put all this energy that you've like been building over time into something else.

00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,840
For me, like, I think what especially hit hard was just like that I still had a finger

00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,840
injury.

00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,040
I think that I had suppressed that idea in me, even though I'm like, I've been talking

00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,040
about it.

00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,160
I think going into the Olympics, I was like, Okay, I don't have a finger injury.

00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,440
That's not the kind of like climber I am right now.

00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,680
And I think I really convinced myself of that, so that I had the best opportunity to perform

00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:18,360
at the highest level I could mentally, like I didn't want to be thinking about my finger

00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,360
on the wall.

00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,600
I ended up having that happen a little bit because I ended up feeling it on one of the

00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,600
moves.

00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:30,040
But I think that to suppress this notion of like who you actually are, which is that like

00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,240
I'm an injured climber right now.

00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:36,720
And then to come out of that and be like, like, wait, like I'm injured, like that doesn't

00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,720
that's like so different than the reality that I tried to wake up in like a few days

00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,520
ago.

00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:48,200
It was really hard for me to make that switch and not have anything in climbing that I could

00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,160
like look forward to as much anymore.

00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,280
Like for instance, like I was like, okay, like, if the Olympics don't go great, like

00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,720
I'll go like shun it outside for the fall season.

00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:02,240
But even now, like it's like, okay, actually, like, now is like rehab time, and I can't

00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:07,400
like, you know, go play in forests easily, or at like the level that I wanted to.

00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,040
And I think that even in magic with like, as I said before, that was like, the challenge

00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:17,160
for me was like, okay, I just need to have fun at the level of I'm at and like not hurt

00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:18,440
myself while doing that.

00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:23,240
Well, I guess in this case, it almost, it doesn't even sound like post Olympic blues

00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:25,320
kind of just like injury blues.

00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:31,880
Yeah, I mean, I think I think the goal piece of like the Olympics definitely like contributed.

00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,240
So I think that I think that if it wasn't like a high pressure environment of like the

00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:40,320
Olympics, like I wouldn't have, it wouldn't have hit me as hard.

00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:47,200
I think that, yeah, it was just something that like, I had been looking forward to having

00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:54,200
fun on that stage and fully like believing in myself like, and just coming out of it,

00:49:54,200 --> 00:50:00,440
not having like those like simpler expectations in my head of like, performing my best and

00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:06,760
being confident, not having those smaller ideas come to fruition was just really challenging

00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,560
for me to grapple with.

00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:15,640
And it's hard to like imagine like, you know, maybe I'll go for LA like in four years, maybe

00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,120
I won't, but it was definitely like a once in a lifetime competition.

00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:27,960
So to have it not be not have myself not be where I want to be, it's just hard to come

00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,440
out the other side and be fully satisfied.

00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:36,360
Yeah, do you have any regrets in terms of your training for the Olympics?

00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,520
Or is there anything you think you should have changed in hindsight?

00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,520
Yeah, I think that if I were to do it all again, I think I probably would have spent

00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:47,640
a little bit less time in the earlier part of the season focusing on like strength and

00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:49,040
conditioning.

00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,680
I wouldn't have like put it away, but I think that, you know, I was doing it at least like

00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:58,640
three times a week and I think I would have probably dropped it more.

00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,600
I think that I always just like ended my sessions with it.

00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,400
So I always was like more tired coming into like the next one.

00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:10,720
I also think that I would have probably, yeah, focused a little bit more heavily like on

00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:14,280
lead leading up to the comp.

00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,200
But you know, you live and you learn and I don't have any like regrets, I would say.

00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,520
I just have, you know, new perspectives and new things that I'm going to bring to my

00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,880
training going forward.

00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:32,580
Yeah, and so you mentioned that after the Olympics, it's kind of like weird not really

00:51:32,580 --> 00:51:37,280
having such a specific goal anymore.

00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,280
What is kind of your goal now?

00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,840
Yeah, I think rehab is like the goal for sure.

00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,080
I think that I want to feel healthy on the wall.

00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:49,840
I want to feel like I'm able to push myself fully.

00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:55,080
So I think that just, yeah, gearing down, putting blinders on to everything else that's

00:51:55,080 --> 00:52:02,240
happening and just trying to be back to what I know I can be is the key goal for the fall.

00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,160
Any like outdoor goals?

00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,760
Definitely, yeah.

00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,840
And I think that's also hard because I, you know, there are different seasons that I'm

00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,640
like, oh, it'd be so cool if I could be ready for, you know, climbing in like Yosemite in

00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:19,600
the end of October or like climbing in this crag around like Utah by the middle of October.

00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:27,520
But I think I'm also trying to keep perspective that it's important to not get my expectations

00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,520
too high.

00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:36,920
I'm kind of looking more like to the winter or spring now for pushing, yeah, the outdoor

00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:37,920
goals.

00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:42,800
So I haven't really made any specific plans, but definitely excited to go on a sports trip,

00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,280
for instance, like in the winter, later winter months.

00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,800
But I think that based on talking to like my PT yesterday, like it sounds like it could

00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,080
be another like three months before I'm like fully back.

00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,080
Yeah.

00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,120
That's kind of rough.

00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,120
That's a shame.

00:52:58,120 --> 00:52:59,120
Yeah.

00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:07,200
You also mentioned maybe considering LA 2028, especially if they like split out the disciplines

00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:08,880
for LA.

00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,200
I think I mean, that would be a cool opportunity, right?

00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:18,080
I think they've been climbing has been awarded three medals for LA, but they're going to

00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,200
wait till March to decide like which disciplines to include.

00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,320
So I think that I've heard things about like, you know, maybe even like a speed relay being

00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,840
included as opposed to another discipline.

00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:33,520
So we'll see, you know, like if they actually break it up in the way that us climbers like

00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,000
understand.

00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,920
I have a lot of hope that that will happen because it just like logically makes the most

00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:40,240
sense to me.

00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:46,200
But I think it will be a question until March as far as like what the organizers decide to

00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,800
do because like ultimately like the Olympics, unfortunately is more about views and what

00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:58,600
they think they're going to get the most excitement out of.

00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:03,600
So it definitely doesn't have to align with like what us as climbers like understand it

00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,600
to be.

00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,520
But it would definitely be nicer if it was.

00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:11,560
Well, that's the first time I've heard anyone say that maybe they're like considering speed

00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:17,080
relays instead of breaking out the bouldering and lead.

00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,080
That's interesting.

00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,520
I get it, I guess.

00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:23,600
Yeah, I mean, I think that to me it would be kind of crazy.

00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,720
And that's just like one idea that I've heard.

00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:33,240
I think they're doing like a simulation event in Spain sometime in the fall.

00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:35,000
So yeah, I guess we'll see how that goes.

00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,880
But yeah, I think it would be crazy if they decided to do anything else besides splitting

00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:40,880
up the three disciplines.

00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:45,360
Yeah, I mean, I think like as a climber, that does sound kind of crazy.

00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,960
But thinking about the Olympics, I could see that happening.

00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,080
Like that does make sense.

00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,000
It does kind of track.

00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,480
But okay, that's interesting to know.

00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:04,840
If they do split up the disciplines or even if they don't, what would go into your like

00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:09,400
thought process or decision process for whether or not you would want to go for it again?

00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,560
Yeah, honestly, I think it's like mainly about where I'm finding joy in the sport.

00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:22,120
I think that for me, I really want to continue finding meaning out of my life.

00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:28,080
And I think that, as I mentioned before, climbing sometimes does feel a little self-centered

00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,240
and self-focused.

00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,400
But I also, of course, love it and love the challenges it provides.

00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,800
So I think that I want to understand my relationship with it while coming out of this, having a

00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:48,240
healed finger, making sure that I'm both mentally and physically healthy before deciding fully

00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:49,360
to go for it.

00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:54,880
Because I think I, yeah, if I can avoid it, I would rather not go into another Olympic

00:55:54,880 --> 00:56:06,480
cycle having so much pressure on me that maybe led to an injury and maybe led to me continuing

00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,480
to not deal with an injury.

00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,440
But I think that's a reality of sports in general, that you're maybe going to have

00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:22,040
to fight through what your body is telling you just to perform at your best for your

00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,180
dreams to come true too.

00:56:24,180 --> 00:56:26,120
So I guess that's a long-winded answer.

00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,440
But I think I'm excited right now.

00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,400
I think that I find a lot of joy from climbing.

00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:35,240
I find it to be one of the most thrilling activities in my life.

00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:40,280
And I think that as long as I can keep that up, I think that there's not much of a question

00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,320
to my mind that I want to keep going for it.

00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:48,480
But I do want to take time to reflect on the past four years, honestly, and reflect on

00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:53,720
my life as a whole before fully committing to what that next four years looks like.

00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:54,720
Okay.

00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:00,760
It's interesting that your consideration is mainly, I mean, you've said a couple of times

00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:05,680
now that you feel like it's kind of a selfish sport or that it's very focused on you.

00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:12,160
I feel like for most people, their decision for whether or not they want to continue climbing

00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:21,480
or competition climbing is just how hard the training is or how you're performing.

00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,840
Does that not really affect your decision at all?

00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,160
I love the training.

00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,280
I love pushing myself to that level.

00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:37,200
I think that it's just so fun for me to be in a space where it's like, oh, I don't know

00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:38,200
if I can do this.

00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,960
And then you try it and maybe you don't do it.

00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:42,080
And then it's like, okay, well, I still don't know if I can do this.

00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:48,680
And then just continuing that process is truly beautiful for me.

00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:53,020
But as far as like, and of course that changes sometimes.

00:57:53,020 --> 00:58:01,040
Not every day I'm that stoked to be like 10 circuits deep and yeah, just like my arms

00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:05,280
are on fire and I'm like, why am I here?

00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:10,680
But I think that at the core, I think that the training for me is super exciting.

00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:18,560
But I think that just coming from a family of social workers and other do-gooders in

00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:24,640
the world, I do want to make sure that I'm leaving the world a little bit better than

00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:25,640
I started.

00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:31,800
So I am finding other meaning, whether it be working with Protector Winters or other

00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:32,800
nonprofits.

00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:42,080
I think that for me, in addition to the work that I do, just using maybe the platform of

00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:49,040
the Olympics or just like my time as like a human to try to progress the world to the

00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,720
state that I'm hoping it'll get to some year down the line is really important to

00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:56,720
me too.

00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,720
Yeah.

00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,560
Tell me more about like the work that you do for Protector Winters.

00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:01,560
Yeah.

00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:03,720
So it's relatively new.

00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:08,880
Climbing like sort of just joined their roster this past year.

00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:13,480
It's of course been something that's a lot more focused on like winter sports, hence

00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,120
the name, but they're really trying to like branch out.

00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:23,600
But basically, they're a climate-focused, climate-activism-focused group.

00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:30,640
And basically, the idea is to organize and bring like athletes together who participate

00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:38,240
in outdoor sports to understand like how we can make a difference in climate change.

00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:46,000
I think that using our platforms and our position as people who have all seen the outdoors changing

00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:54,400
in our lifetime, especially in climbing, I feel like as a kid, I could send really hard

00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,840
in the red in the summer.

00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:04,480
Of course, the main season to send hard when I was growing up was October down in the southeast.

01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:07,580
That season has continually shifted.

01:00:07,580 --> 01:00:12,800
And I think that's happened all around us, whether it be in Salt Lake, like the wildfire

01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:20,720
smoke or smog, or even we had our leadership summit for POW in Montana, which also had

01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,080
a bunch of fires.

01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,560
But basically just recognizing that the climate is changing.

01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:29,640
And I think that that's true in outdoor climbing.

01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:36,280
It's also true for competitions being canceled with flooding or extreme heat, which we saw

01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:41,560
in the OQS series, where athletes aren't able to perform their best.

01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,440
And yeah, I'm worried about the outdoors, but also even in competition, I think that

01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:51,440
events are continually being moved indoors rather than keeping them outdoors just because

01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:58,280
it's so risky what you're going to get for the outdoor climate at the time of the competition.

01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:04,080
And that's a real bummer to not be able to fit as many spectators inside and also just

01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:09,000
not to be able to have this beautiful mountains, which I always associate with World Cups in

01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:10,480
the background.

01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:16,120
But anyway, yeah, Protector Winter is right now is mainly focused on getting out the vote

01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:23,600
and trying to promote candidates who are climate focused and willing to accept that climate

01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,880
change is real and they want to do something about it.

01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Okay.

01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,840
Well, thank you for sharing about that.

01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:36,240
Yeah, and in terms of venues going indoors, Salt Lake used to be outdoors and now it's

01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,800
in the training center.

01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,720
How do athletes feel about that?

01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:49,240
Yeah, I did attend as a spectator, but a year or two ago, it was insane with the flooding

01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:50,240
in the field.

01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:56,600
I think it cost us climbing many thousands of dollars to fix the field after the fact.

01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:02,320
And I think that just because it's a temporary event and then they move it, but it damaged

01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:09,160
the field based on the stadium and all the spectators walking around on wet grass that

01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,000
then became mud pretty fast.

01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,720
So anyway, that's a long-winded answer.

01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:20,360
But I think for me, it's a real bummer to not be able to have climbing be in a more

01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:25,640
centered stadium where outsiders or people who have never seen it, they're driving down

01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,480
the street and they're like, oh, what the heck is that?

01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:32,840
And it's like an introduction to what climbing is rather than being in a warehouse where

01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,080
it's very enclosed.

01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:44,440
It's a space that is not as bright and sunny and is not showing the connection of nature

01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:49,680
to climbing, which I think is a really important aspect of the indoor sport that I feel like

01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,440
we're continually losing over time.

01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:58,280
I'm the last one to say that I'm not a gym rat because I've been in the gym basically

01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,680
for the past nine months.

01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:06,840
But I think that the more that the indoor scene can be connected to the outdoors, I

01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:12,800
think one on just the ethics of climbing can be maintained more.

01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:22,200
But also, yeah, just as far as finding joy in nature, I think that separation is becoming

01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,800
more and more clear between indoors and outdoors.

01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:31,120
And I just hope that competition climbing can maintain a little bit of that outdoor

01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:32,120
exposure too.

01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:38,120
And then really quick, I was just thinking, I mean, because it is protect our winters

01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,880
and you said that climbing is new to it.

01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,440
It just reminded me about ice climbing.

01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,800
Is that something that you're ever interested in trying?

01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:49,880
Or have you done it?

01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:50,880
I've tried it once.

01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Yeah, and I hated it.

01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:57,200
I already have such cold hands and I feel like it was so rough.

01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:03,160
I think that if I went with someone who knew a lot more about what they were doing or if

01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:09,200
I had a specific objective, I think mixed climbing could be really cool.

01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:15,760
But yeah, for me right now, I'm really interested in pushing myself within the realm of what

01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,800
my hands can do.

01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:22,280
So I feel like, yeah, maybe that kind of climbing will be in my future.

01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:29,480
But for now, yeah, I think just focusing on rock climbing will be my focus for the near

01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:30,480
future.

01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:31,480
Okay.

01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,920
I mean, it wouldn't make the finger injury worse.

01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,040
So maybe it would be good for that.

01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,040
Yeah, maybe now.

01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:39,040
Yeah, for sure.

01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:40,040
Okay, cool.

01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:47,000
So those were all the questions that I had, but we had a few discord questions that I

01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,800
wanted to go over as well.

01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:54,240
So well, the first one was just, why does it seem as though you're literally friends

01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,200
with every climber in the climbing circuit?

01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:57,200
You're too popular.

01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,160
I guess that was more of just a statement.

01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:01,160
That's funny.

01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,760
I feel like I'm not actually friends with everyone, but I feel like, yeah, it's definitely

01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:10,120
important or like it's something that differentiates climbing from other sports where I feel like

01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:11,800
we're friendly with our competitors.

01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:20,560
We like to give beta and information to each other to all have a level playing field.

01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,980
And I think that's a really beautiful part of the sport.

01:05:23,980 --> 01:05:28,640
Even in the Olympics, it's like I'm talking to competitors from other countries about

01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,720
what they think they're going to do in certain sequences.

01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,140
And yeah, what other sports do you have that?

01:05:33,140 --> 01:05:37,960
I feel like there's this really intense competition that I feel like I felt from other sports

01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:43,240
that is definitely like seeping into climbing, but I feel like the longer we can maintain

01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:49,480
that the longer climbing will be special and not something that has just absorbed into

01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,320
the sporting world as a whole.

01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:52,320
Yeah.

01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:57,120
Have you noticed that it's gotten more competitive with the Olympics coming into play?

01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,360
Yeah, I definitely think that the World Cup season leading into the Olympics was one of

01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:05,800
the most intense environments that I've felt, especially like Bird, which is like the world

01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,160
championships like last year.

01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,560
I feel like Ever was just in their zone.

01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:17,200
Not many people were making jokes or looking like they were having just fun.

01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:23,520
A lot of people in isolation were trying to one up each other or something like that,

01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,800
which I think is common and can be really enjoyable and playful.

01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:32,360
But it just felt like way more of an intense environment than when I'm used to in the sport,

01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,360
for sure.

01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:38,120
Yeah, I wonder if it was even worse during the OQS series.

01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:43,200
I feel like there was a lot of intense stuff happening around that time.

01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,520
Yeah, for sure.

01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:52,200
I can't really speak to that, but I'm sure it was a pretty intense environment for sure.

01:06:52,200 --> 01:07:00,240
Yeah, even during the Pan Ams when you qualified, I feel like that was also probably a pretty

01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,400
emotionally volatile moment for you.

01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,400
Yeah, for sure.

01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:10,960
I mean, I think that it's the epitome of wanting your competitors to do well, but not letting

01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:18,480
that affect how you climb and not letting your goals of winning change who you are as

01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,880
a person as well, which I think that is really hard to lose on that kind of stage.

01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:27,960
Yeah, like the other Americans who were there, I wanted nothing but for them to be able to

01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:28,960
do their best.

01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:35,200
And yeah, it just is so hard to have your dreams come at the expense of others.

01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:40,920
Yeah, so that kind of leads into the next question, which is who do you think are the

01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,960
next dominant climbers in the new generation?

01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:46,280
Whoa.

01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:53,580
It's crazy seeing the level just of the climbers coming into the training center, people moving

01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:56,440
out to Salt Lake City.

01:07:56,440 --> 01:08:02,120
It's funny to call them the next generation because I feel like they're already here,

01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:09,480
you know, the Tobias and Serratos of the world, they're seven, eight years younger than me.

01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,120
And I feel like that is the next generation in many ways.

01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:18,160
But as far as Americans, which I'm assuming the question maybe is, I don't know.

01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,080
It wasn't specified, so you could get into both if you want.

01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:28,440
Yeah, I mean, I feel like there already are several, it's funny to call them like teenagers,

01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:33,240
but it is true, like who have like many names for themselves by like qualifying for like

01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:41,680
World Cups this past year or the year before, like Bob Dylan, Hugo Boyer and like Adam Shahar

01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,160
are like some of the first names that come to mind just because they've like been to

01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:51,440
like World Cups and definitely like the level is like really impressive to see.

01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:57,280
I'm sure I'm like missing some names there, but I think that yeah, the next generation

01:08:57,280 --> 01:09:03,160
is coming and it's like super cool for me to like see climbing being pushed to like

01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:04,880
new levels for sure.

01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,720
Yeah, do you feel like you can tell there's a difference between like the way they grew

01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:12,960
up with climbing versus maybe how you grew up with climbing?

01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:18,840
Yeah, I mean, not to talk about them specifically, but I think in general, like more kids of

01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,480
that age are growing up with like remote high school, for instance, which I feel like is

01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:27,000
like so different than like my generation and like just this idea of like remote school

01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,040
is like much different.

01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:36,320
I think that there is a lot more focus and just pursuit of like purely competition climbing

01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:40,760
and maybe not a balance, which I feel like is what I sort of grew up with.

01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:45,520
But I think that some of them also like bring both to the table and I am hopeful that like

01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,920
there's continual like mentorship in like both spaces.

01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:55,480
Yeah, and I also I guess I didn't mention like Annie Sanders, but really cool to see

01:09:55,480 --> 01:10:01,080
her like just like yeah, I get a medal at like the World Cup this past season as well.

01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,880
So yeah, they're definitely here and definitely coming.

01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,560
Yeah, yeah, she's been crushing it.

01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:12,240
Okay, and the last question, do you see your professional athletic career and your engineering

01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:17,280
career intersecting at some point, such as maybe something like assistive technology

01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:22,620
that could be applied to a para climbing application?

01:10:22,620 --> 01:10:24,480
Or do you always prefer to keep them separate?

01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,840
Yeah, if anyone has any connections out there, definitely hit me up.

01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,680
But yeah, I definitely have thought about that for a while.

01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,720
I think especially with like para being included in LA, like it would be really meaningful

01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,640
for me to get to do something in that space.

01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,800
So I have thought about it for a while.

01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,160
I think that I don't need to have them be separate, but I think definitely having like

01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:51,720
projects in both spaces, like I wouldn't necessarily just want to build a device for me, you know,

01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:56,680
for me to like pursue climbing at like a higher level solely.

01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,360
But I think that like, the more I get involved in like both areas, like the more I'm interested

01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:07,680
in what new technology can progress like my sport, or like sports in general, for sure.

01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:09,840
So yeah, it's definitely an interesting question.

01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,760
And I think that like, for me, it's just about advancing like human performance, whether that

01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,840
be myself or like other people's.

01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,720
So I'm like interested in those kinds of questions as a whole.

01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:24,080
Okay, have you like had any ideas come to mind?

01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:25,080
Yeah, for sure.

01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:35,200
I mean, I think that even some of the devices that I've like worked with in my lab currently,

01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:40,000
just to back up, I worked with an organization called Peak Potential, which like helped children

01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,840
with like various physical disabilities learn how to like rock climb.

01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:48,920
And I think like those assistive devices, such as like a shoulder device to help people

01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:55,760
like lift their arms up over their head could definitely be used in the kind of like assistive

01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,560
climbing space as well.

01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:02,560
So I think that that would be really cool to, you know, tie in those kinds of devices

01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:10,200
to kids or even adult para climbers as well, just to, you know, I think a lot of that is

01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,680
like more for rehab.

01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:18,480
So like, regaining mobility, so maybe it wouldn't actually be applied to para climbers, or like

01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:25,120
professional, like para climbers, but like people who are looking to get more like rehab

01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:30,040
out of the sport, which that organization was like focused on, it could be a really

01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:31,880
useful device.

01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,600
Because right now, like other volunteers are like sort of like lifting their arms over

01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,160
their head for them.

01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,280
So what if we had like a robot do the same task instead?

01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:41,280
Exciting.

01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:46,880
And okay, well, I think that is all the questions I had.

01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,200
Any like final thoughts you wanted to get out there?

01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:56,960
No, I think I guess the only other thing that not to like make it too political, but like

01:12:56,960 --> 01:13:01,680
I do think that for me as like climber, like looking into like my future, like I definitely

01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:05,400
think that like voting is like super important coming up.

01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,440
And yeah, hoping that everyone out there like registers to vote.

01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:09,440
Okay.

01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:15,000
I mean, not a fully US podcast, but for the people in the US.

01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,040
Yeah, go on and vote.

01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:19,040
And for everyone else.

01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:20,040
Not in the US.

01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,720
Yeah, just encourage your US friends to vote, I guess.

01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:23,720
Yeah.

01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,520
And just enjoy all the political memes, I guess, that come out of the process.

01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:29,520
Yeah, for sure.

01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:30,520
Geez.

01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:31,520
Oh my god, so many.

01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,480
There's some good stuff out there.

01:13:33,480 --> 01:13:34,480
Yeah.

01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:35,480
And songs.

01:13:35,480 --> 01:13:36,480
And songs.

01:13:36,480 --> 01:13:37,480
Yeah.

01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:45,960
Oh, like the Charlie XCX Sprat coconut meme.

01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:46,960
Oh, maybe.

01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:47,960
Yeah.

01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:48,960
I don't know.

01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:52,040
Just from like the last debate, I feel like I'm like, yeah, not that great at singing,

01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:56,200
but like I feel like, yeah, there were just ones of like taking different phrases and

01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:58,680
Are you talking about the cat one?

01:13:58,680 --> 01:13:59,680
Yes, I am.

01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:00,680
Okay.

01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:03,240
I was like, do I sing it on air right now?

01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:04,240
Or like, yeah.

01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:05,840
If you want, you can go for it.

01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:07,640
I'll put in a clip.

01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,840
Yeah, maybe that would just be better.

01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:13,520
And I can voice over it.

01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:14,720
They're eating the dogs.

01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,160
They're eating the dogs.

01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:18,160
They're eating the cats.

01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,840
That's just been in my head for days.

01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:21,840
Days.

01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:22,840
Oh my gosh.

01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:23,840
I'm so behind.

01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:27,080
I only saw it like yesterday.

01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:31,480
But I'm glad you're very in on the loop with that meme.

01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:37,880
It'll still come out in like three weeks, so it might be old by then.

01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:39,880
Yeah, true.

01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,840
I'm surrounded by a lot of like teens throughout my day.

01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:46,320
And yeah, there's a lot of memes.

01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,240
Yeah, that's true.

01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:53,680
You know, I'm surrounded by like some kids during like climbing training.

01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,360
And there are definitely points.

01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,520
They were like, there was like a group of them and they were like hangboarding and they

01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:02,960
were singing like the skibbity song.

01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:07,040
I was like, I'm too old for this now.

01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,400
Yeah, I feel that way a lot, honestly.

01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:14,880
Or just even some of the words like, yeah, well, it's a full education in there.

01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:18,360
Yeah, I mean, I knew it was a thing, but I didn't know they just went around singing

01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:19,360
it.

01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:20,720
That's like a little too much for me.

01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:25,360
But yeah, I'm sure you're surrounded by a lot more kids than I am on the day to day

01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,360
or teens.

01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:27,360
Maybe, maybe.

01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:28,360
It's terrifying.

01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:29,360
Okay.

01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:30,360
Cool.

01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,800
Well, I think that's all the questions I had.

01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,160
Thank you for joining me today.

01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,040
Want to let people know where they can find you?

01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:40,040
Oh, sure.

01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:43,840
Yeah, mostly like on Instagram, I guess.

01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,200
And yeah, I think that's kind of it, I would say for now.

01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:48,200
Okay.

01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,720
Yeah, I will leave the link in the description.

01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:52,720
So yeah, thank you so much.

01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:53,720
It was amazing to talk to you.

01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:54,720
Cool.

01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:55,720
Yeah, thank you so much as well.

01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:56,720
This was a lot of fun.

01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:01,240
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.

01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:03,840
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.

01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:07,000
Otherwise you are a super fake climber.

01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,360
If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars

01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:16,440
and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in

01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:17,440
the description.

01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:26,440
Thanks again for listening.