33: Niki & Jake, Modern Routesetting Specialists

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A lot of Americans make fun of us that we're using polyester.

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Like they think like we are dumb and we're like lost on time.

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Feel free to think that, but like our gyms work pretty well and the settings

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still works pretty well and we don't destroy our polyester holes.

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You can use slab to level the playing field.

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Like a local Londoner and Toby could have a similar experience on a really hard slab.

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Comp's are really exclusive.

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They're only for the top one or 2% of people.

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It's better to give back to the 99%.

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I think for the Bern World Championship when they were setting like almost like

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18 days in a row, they got like 180 or maybe 200 euros a day.

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So basically nothing.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not World Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my two guests for today.

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Niklas Wiechmann and Jake Mason.

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Niki and Jake are route setters from another setting podcast, which is the

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name of their podcast, but you may already be familiar with them because Niki was

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my first ever podcast guest and you're probably familiar with Jake from the

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Bouldering Bobats.

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In this episode, we absolutely trash US Gym hold selection and setting.

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They give their opinions on worldwide setting styles, comp formats, and moves

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to leave behind in 2024.

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And we discuss freelance versus World Cup routes that are pay.

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This was a super fun conversation full of hot takes.

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So I hope you enjoy this episode with Niki and Jake.

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Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor, helping make this podcast

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episode possible, Mad Rock Climbing.

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I got fitted with their brand new line of high performance shoes, the D2.1s.

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They just came out December 6th, but you might notice a few of your favorite

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gum climbers are already wearing them, like Oscar Boudrand from Team Canada and

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also me.

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This is the first time I've gotten to wear their shoes for an extended period

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of time, and I'm actually super impressed with the grip of their in-house rubber.

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And of course, the famous drone heel that everyone says is the cheat code to heel

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hooking small edges.

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Feel free to message me if you have any questions about the shoes or sizing, and

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you can use the discount code, not real climber for 10% off your entire Mad Rock

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order.

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Mad Rock order info will be in the description back to the show.

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This is like a truly global podcast.

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Yeah, everyone's really far.

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Sydney, London and San Diego.

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Where are you?

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Yeah.

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Wait, where does it say Sydney?

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I'm in like, I'm in Tasmania.

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Oh, sorry.

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Hobart, Hobart.

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Where even is Tasmania?

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Yeah, it's like below Australia.

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It's not New Zealand yet, but it's like close to not the South Pole, but it's

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like pretty good here.

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What are you doing there?

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Visiting vineyards, hiking.

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I survived a 22k hike two days ago.

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My friends always take me hiking here because they live in Brisbane, which is

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like 36 up now, like 36 degree.

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So it's like just baking and melting.

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So we go down here, visiting vineyards, hiking, running.

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Yeah, I've never been to the Southern Hemisphere.

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I don't know what it would be like to experience summer in December.

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Or Christmas.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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For us Europeans, it's like, I used to live here, so I like it and I have like

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friends here, so it's like really easy.

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From my experience, it's very insect-y.

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If you don't like insects, don't go to the Southern Hemisphere in summer.

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Like the massive spiders or?

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Well, I don't know.

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I don't know about Australia, but in New Zealand in January and February is like

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so many insects.

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It's crazy, horrible.

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Whoa, big ones.

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Okay, I'll stay here.

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That's fine.

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How are your holidays?

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Chill.

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Really chill.

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No plans for New Year's resolutions?

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House party tomorrow.

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No resolutions there.

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What about you?

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I shouldn't have asked because I don't have resolutions either.

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I'm probably stretching actually.

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Stretching.

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I should be stretching more.

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What?

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Yeah, nice.

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Fair one.

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It's a good resolution.

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Don't believe I can do it already?

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You're already doubting.

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You can do it.

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Stretching is, yeah, every day.

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It's just so boring.

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Stretching is so boring.

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I feel like it's like the most valuable thing probably and the easiest thing to do, but

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it's just so boring.

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Do you have a New Year's resolution, Nikki?

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Do you ever?

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Just stay alive.

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Make it another year.

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Maybe we should all try stretching.

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No, not doing it.

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There's no point.

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All right.

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I guess I'm alone on that.

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What about travel goals for 2025?

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I feel like I should travel less.

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I don't think that will happen, but I think for the environment, I should travel less.

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I did 21 flights this year.

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It's more than I've ever done.

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It's super bad, but I would do it again.

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Yeah, should probably do the same, say the same, but I already get a lot of stuff lined

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up.

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I kind of feel bad about it, but on the other hand, nah, fuck it.

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I love traveling.

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Yeah, but it's work, isn't it?

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That's it.

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I never do anything for fun or leisure.

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It's always work.

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Okay.

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So yeah, let's talk about work then, I guess, because that's exciting.

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We'll just get right into it.

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How did you both get into climbing and route setting?

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I mean, I guess, Nicky, we kind of heard from you the first ever episode of the podcast,

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but you can give another brief explanation.

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My parents were climbers and my dad started climbing early, so I never had the chance

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to get around it.

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They also ran a climbing gym, and that's how I started climbing as a kid when I learned

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walking.

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And that's also how I got into route setting because they ran a gym and sooner or later,

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I was asked to help stripping and then I was also allowed to put some holds on the wall

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and I never stopped.

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Yeah.

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And I'm still climbing setting.

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Well, you did kind of stop for a little bit, but okay.

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Yeah.

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Did you stop for a little bit?

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Yeah, climbing.

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I stopped climbing from time to time when I was a little teenager.

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Oh yeah, when you start skating.

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Yeah, I will plug the first episode ever of the podcast and for anyone who wants to hear

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more of his story, check out the first episode.

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It's probably really bad.

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Thanks for sitting through that one.

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It's probably really bad.

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Thank you.

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No, from my side, from my side, I think you did great.

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Nikki was a great guest.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, you were a great guest.

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I probably could have improved.

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I don't worry.

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I think it was a great burn.

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Yeah, thanks.

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All right, Jake, what about you?

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Yeah, I was always interested in the mountains from a young age.

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In my teens, I spent a lot of time walking in the hills and eventually found my way onto

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climbing on ropes on gritstone, like trad climbing.

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And then I did some sport climbing.

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And then I was lucky enough to find bouldering in maybe 2012.

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Found bouldering and realized it's the best form of climbing.

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And then I moved to London, started working in the arch climbing wall.

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That was 2014.

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And then quickly found my little pathway into route setting via the traditional route.

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You work on reception and then you speak to the headsets and then you do some washing,

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you do some stripping, whatever.

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That was my way in.

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It's been sort of a 10-year organic growth from there.

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So yeah, you didn't grow up climbing like Nicky?

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No, I didn't grow up climbing, but I did.

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Yeah, I've done lots of sports in my life.

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So I was primed and ready to become a boulderer at the age of, you know, 2021, 22, something like that.

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Yeah, you also have the physique to be an athlete.

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I'm just a leek, but Jake is like, he has muscles, he can jump.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I got lucky with the genetics.

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I've got really long arms.

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It's kind of helpful.

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Oh, you have a big plus.

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Yeah.

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I don't know what it is, but it's more.

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It's definitely plus.

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So then how did you two meet and become kind of like a duo or like a bromance type of thing?

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When did the bromance start though, really?

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We met in 2017.

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I was invited to the arch in 2016 for a three-day workshop.

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And they told me that one of their setters was missing out because he was in the forest

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doing, you did, what did you do?

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Like this jump thingy, rainbow rock.

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Was I in Fond?

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Yeah, you were in Fond.

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Oh yeah, I was on holiday.

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Yeah, he was on holiday.

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And in 2017, when I moved to London in July, I think that's when we met.

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Yeah, and Nicky did like a residency and we kind of, I think we have a similar

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feeling about climbing, a similar like approach to climbing.

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So we gelled and since then we've been hanging out and teaching people how to do cool moves

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and route set and whatever, lots of things.

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They kind of blossomed naturally.

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Blossomed naturally.

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And we do a lot of stuff and private life.

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We just get along like pretty well.

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Now we do lots of work together through Climb Holds, the hold manufacturer in Slovenia.

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But it's not only work, Jake.

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I think we should put it out here.

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Like what should be ready?

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We are also friends in private life.

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You're the silly one.

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I'm the serious one.

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I like work.

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I like structure.

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Nicky's kind of like floofy.

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What do you mean I'm floofy?

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You're the silly one.

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You have a very relaxed approach to life and I'm like, I feel like I'm the strict one

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who needs to know all the information now.

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And if it's not perfect, ah, a struggle.

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Yeah, for a German, I'm pretty freestyle, I guess.

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Okay.

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So yeah, clearly you both have traveled around a lot.

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In terms of work and setting, what are some of the setting trends you've seen

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in all the different countries you've worked in?

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Wow, it's kind of super diverse.

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Wow.

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I mean, there are like four, maybe four Katana.

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Yeah, like China and Japan seem kind of similar in that they have small walls, dense setting.

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And then there's like in Germany, when I think Germany, I think like vast open spaces with

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lots of accessible lines.

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And then I think UK, UK is like still kind of old school, grotty, like ratty climbing,

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but that's changing.

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And then in America, I think even bigger warehouses with like loads of easy boulders

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and loads of super powerful boulders.

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Wow, I'm sure there's many, many more examples.

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You could go down a long rabbit hole.

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Like the French have a really techie style, like really comp-orientated style in France.

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Yeah, I wouldn't say there's like a trend.

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Like a trend would be, that's the thing, like a trend would be something like what happens

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over time and floats from left to right or whatsoever.

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But I feel like a lot of different countries find their different identities or like different

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styles, what they do.

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Okay.

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And this is like mainly due to the limitations of their space or whether they can get material

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as easily as in Europe.

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Like in, it's just like UK and mainland of Europe.

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I think I went to the trade show in November, a friend of mine, he told me there are nowadays

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like 410 or 505 like hold companies and 200 of them started in the last five years.

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And it feels like this could be right.

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Like he's pretty detailed and knowledgeable, like pretty geeky about the stuff.

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And in Europe, like you get all the stuff plus like, so like the development of stuff

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just happens a little bit faster.

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While we still have like other big warehouses or like smaller content spaces and like

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a lot of like different identities already UK, Germany, France feels entirely different.

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The Dutch feel different as well with their gyms.

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But some other areas like, yeah, like China, for example, they have to deal with 80% Chinese

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brands because they cannot import a lot of stuff.

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And then they cannot, I think they told us that the rental contracts are like up to five

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years.

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So they cannot build like really, really lush, huge gyms because they need to get the money

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back like as fast as possible for their starting invest.

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And then they go the Japanese way to just like put a lot of boulders into one space.

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And they felt like, I think there was Japanese smartness, like if they have like one hold,

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one huge fiberglass macro in one color, which is designed only for one client, they just

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put another color jib on it to make it available like a plywood volume also for other clients.

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So they're really good at maximizing the utility of each and every single hold.

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While gyms itself don't look as nice as we tried to in Europe, I think from time to time.

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So they follow Japan a little bit in China, Singapore as well, or like a lot of like Asian

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countries, I think.

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And then Australia has a little bit of a mix between Europe, America and Asia.

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But yeah, I think that's just like how I feel it is around the world.

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And I climbed only in a few gyms in the United States.

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How many did you climb it, Jake?

00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,520
Well, two or three, not many.

00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,200
Total like in your life?

00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:15,600
Yeah, yeah, like three, I think.

00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,800
Cliffs, cliffs.

00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:22,480
Where did I go to in San Francisco?

00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,520
Dogpatch and one more in Vegas I went to.

00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:26,960
Oh, you went to one in Vegas.

00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,240
I remember what it was ages ago, like five years ago.

00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,240
Did the Vegas have pokies in it?

00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,040
Pokies?

00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:33,840
What's pokies?

00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:34,640
Oh, like the...

00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:35,840
Oh, like ped board.

00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:36,640
Yeah.

00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,440
No, no, no.

00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,400
Like where you can put money in and become a millionaire.

00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,000
Oh, no.

00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,040
The gambling machines.

00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:45,600
Oh, no.

00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,480
No, no, no.

00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,200
God, sorry.

00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,240
That took me too long.

00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,440
It should do though.

00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,360
Maybe those laws only apply to the strip.

00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,000
I don't know.

00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,200
No, it doesn't.

00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,200
I mean, I lived in Vegas.

00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,080
You have like slot machines and like gas stations and grocery stores.

00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,560
Wow, they should totally put them in climbing walls.

00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:07,680
They should actually.

00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:08,640
Yeah.

00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:09,520
I don't live there anymore.

00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,640
I can't suggest it, but...

00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:11,680
Damn.

00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,680
But okay, so I feel like I have a personal gripe when it comes to hold selection at a

00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,760
lot of the gyms I've been to in the US.

00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:29,040
It's just, I feel like maybe they started the gyms like before really cool holds became

00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:29,840
a thing.

00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,800
And so then they just have like really boring holds.

00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:33,600
It's such a nice boom.

00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,160
And then they...

00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,960
Well, this is like my point of view from someone who isn't involved in like the gym,

00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,560
I don't know, industry.

00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:48,560
But I just feel like they have a lot of uninteresting holds and then they don't really have the

00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,840
money right now to like buy cooler macros and stuff like that.

00:15:53,840 --> 00:16:01,840
It seems like they mostly buy US brands with the exception of flat hold perhaps and maybe

00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,640
cheetah.

00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:12,480
But from what I see, it seems to be all US brands, all PU and really not many volumes.

00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:19,040
But I'm sure that's changing, but when you go to Europe or Japan or the rest of the world,

00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:23,680
you'll see lots of volumes, lots of tiny, tiny footholds.

00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:29,920
And I think there's maybe way more of like a techie style than in the US.

00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,640
Yeah, it's an interesting observation.

00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:34,960
All right.

00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,560
So it's just like a whole distributor kind of thing?

00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,240
It's a whole distributor and also like a whole factory problem.

00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:48,480
You got to see like, I think the amount of gyms in the US, I think maybe like 550, maybe 700 gyms.

00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,440
I think that's more or less like the amount of gyms we have in Germany.

00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:54,800
I think we have 600 gyms.

00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,200
Maybe US has a little bit more.

00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:57,760
Wow.

00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,040
But it's like Germany.

00:16:59,040 --> 00:16:59,200
Wow.

00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:06,720
So the amount of gyms, like even if it was Germany and the UK, it's not cooperating like

00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,400
Italy, France, Spain.

00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,560
Like it's not as big as a European market.

00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:17,040
I think in the US, there's only two productions, maybe three.

00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:24,720
There's Aragon and they produce for Cilta and a few other brands.

00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:30,560
And then there's another one I think they produce for, I don't know the names anymore,

00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,200
but it's like mainly American brands.

00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,080
And I talked to a few people from the United States and like if they want to order holes

00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:44,160
from Europe, they always have to talk to the distributors and the distributors, they compile

00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,120
orders until the shipping container is full.

00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,680
And then they got to wait like for weeks and months until the stuff comes over.

00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,120
I don't know how big their orders are.

00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,840
And the thing is a lot of Americans make fun of us that they're using polyester.

00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:08,240
Like they think like we're dumb and we're like lost in time.

00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:08,880
Bad words.

00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,920
You might think like feel free to think that, but like our gyms work pretty well and the

00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,680
setting still works pretty well and we don't destroy our polyester holes.

00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,400
You cannot make everything out of a polyester hole what you can make with a polyurethane

00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,280
hole.

00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:29,040
But polyester, like we have more factories, it produces way faster, it lasts way longer.

00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:35,040
So we have way more different shapes here, way more because we plus all the polyurethane

00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,840
brands and I think we have way more factories here as well.

00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,440
We got Schlamberger in Slovenia, we got 360 in Slovenia, we got Composite X in Bulgaria,

00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,160
we got the Blocks one in Germany.

00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,400
And I think there's more and maybe there's more and then we got like all these plywood

00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,360
brands like we've got so many plywood productions while the American brands, I think there's

00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:02,640
Dimension which is kind of okay and then there's still important blocks like the majority of

00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:10,800
plywood volumes comes from Germany which is super embarrassing honestly because yeah it's

00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:17,360
difficult for us to say because we are not like Jake visited three to four gyms, I visited

00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:23,760
three to four gyms and I had mainly like a lot of weird experiences as well because I

00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,360
think, let's put this for like the spaces were so big they could be much better.

00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:34,320
Yeah, yeah like I climbed in a gym like 300 boulder problems and I think there was maybe

00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,360
one push.

00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:45,520
It's like the dimensions of like the variety of setting or movement styles and that's a

00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:46,160
problem.

00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,320
It's not down to the holes but holes can be inspiring I think for most of the people,

00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,360
for most of the setters to make it better.

00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,120
It seems like the walls are restricted by a couple of things.

00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:06,320
One is lack of volumes for me and the other one is not committing to using screw-ons like

00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,840
everything seems to be a bolt on.

00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:15,440
I don't know if you've noticed that or if that's even fully true but from what I saw in the

00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:21,360
walls I went to, most holes were bolted on and I think you can do way more with lots of

00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:24,560
jibs and volumes than you can with just bolt on holds.

00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:31,360
But this might be also like historical because one of the first polyurethane brands was Technic

00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:37,360
in the States and nowadays if you order Technic jibs they're still not pre-drilled.

00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,840
So like there is a historical part that you get a climbing hold even though if it's a

00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:49,760
bigger hold and you have to screw your own anti-rotation screw in it which is like liability

00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:58,560
wise in Germany that wouldn't even be legal to offer holes which can rotate because they

00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,480
can rotate easily and you need to put a pin screw in it.

00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,960
In Germany or like Europe it's designed that you kind of like have a thread where the screw

00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:15,360
goes into to stop a hole from rotating like in the factory molds and produces holes like

00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,720
this and a lot of polyurethane holes in the US don't have that so maybe it's like historical

00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,920
wise that they don't do a lot of jibbing like commercially wise.

00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,800
Ginny, you said you're missing certain holes, you're missing like cool holes.

00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,520
What do you think exactly do you think you're missing?

00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,240
Oh I'm...

00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,760
Is there anything you can think of?

00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:39,200
I'm just going based off of vibes here.

00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:40,800
Okay yeah that's fair.

00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,160
Yeah I don't have like a route setter's eye for this so I don't keep track of holds that

00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,760
closely it's just that I don't... it's rare for me to like... like I don't even see a

00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,520
lot of dual text holds really.

00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,920
It's just like the... man I just I feel kind of embarrassed talking about it because I

00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,200
don't know the terminology.

00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,080
You do.

00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:12,960
Like a lot of the holds are like not grippy and it's just like this shitty like slick

00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,120
plastic sometimes.

00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,320
Exactly that's because it's PU.

00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,760
Which is also fine.

00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,800
Oh okay.

00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,200
That's because it's PU and most of it's like already three years old.

00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,440
As soon as it's three years old or even two years old it's basically useless.

00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,200
And some of these holds come out of the factory like this and I've talked to some people,

00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,520
setters, gym owners, managers, climbers in the US and they're like we don't have

00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,320
slippy holds and I'm like this is not possible.

00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:46,240
My only explanation can be okay these people never touched like a hold with a lot of grip.

00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,360
Like we have climbing holds which have grip like fiberglass macros from flat hold or cheetah.

00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,960
This is like how our normal holds can feel.

00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,080
And yeah but it's cool that you're slippery.

00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,640
It's not cool.

00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:10,240
But I mean I guess you can say it like makes you stronger so that's good too in a way.

00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,280
Is it satisfying to climb on?

00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,560
I'm not sure.

00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,120
No it sucks because you just want to do the move.

00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:18,720
But then it's so like.

00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,920
In the UK when it's cold and you have like really dry skin and you try and pull on

00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,920
polyurethane like plastic holds.

00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,360
Oh my god it's sometimes literally not possible.

00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,040
So in America like you're in San Diego right?

00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,680
So it's basically never cold.

00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,280
So maybe this is why.

00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,720
I feel kind of cold right now.

00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,560
What temperature is it?

00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,640
Like 20 degrees?

00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:44,320
15 degrees.

00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,160
I don't speak celsius but it's 65.

00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:49,920
I have no idea what that is.

00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,240
My theory was going to be.

00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,840
This isn't just a San Diego thing.

00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,400
This is just like gyms around the US.

00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:02,560
Yeah well my theory was going to be that if your skin is warm then you're more likely

00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,840
to be able to climb on this on this like worn plastic.

00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:07,840
That's 18 degrees.

00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,520
Oh dude it's pretty nice.

00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,520
18 degrees is lovely.

00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,320
It's nice.

00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,560
I don't know.

00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:23,280
I don't know I think maybe you'll see like a retexturing revolution in the states.

00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:28,880
No I mean I think the gyms here are well I would love for you guys to like come here

00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,160
and like tell me everything that's wrong with it so it can ruin my experience.

00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,920
That's just personal opinions also.

00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,840
I would be curious your thoughts because I haven't really climbed in too many gyms

00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,880
internationally.

00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:48,240
I guess like Singapore a little bit in China a little bit in France like a few years ago

00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,440
but I didn't really experience a lot of it.

00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,240
Yeah it would be cool for you to come to Europe.

00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,080
I think you'll see a very big difference.

00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:06,560
Yeah so these country specific setting what was the word not trends but identities.

00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,400
Identities you said identities yeah.

00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:15,440
Do you feel like any of those identities transfer over to the World Cups or does it

00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,160
seem like they kind of keep it pretty consistent across the World Cups in different countries.

00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560
Yeah I think that's my main critique.

00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,960
It does not really like the World Cups are same same.

00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,360
The World Cups don't feel like they are or they have their own identity.

00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,360
Did we talk about it last time on this podcast?

00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,040
If not I can rant on.

00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Nicky we spoke about this on our podcast and this is such a good point.

00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:37,520
Carry on.

00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,040
Yeah yeah thank you.

00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,120
Yeah I think the World Cups are same same but different like walls look the same like

00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:49,680
you don't have any if you just watch a World Cup any of it if it's Innsbruck, Bricksham,

00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,960
Prague whatsoever sometimes they're outside most of the times to get a bigger audience

00:25:54,960 --> 00:26:00,240
and but the holes are mainly the same because we are restricting the limiting ourselves to

00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:11,680
IFC gold and platinum and premium and whatsoever crap categories so it's like four main brands

00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,480
like at the Olympia Games and then like maybe 10 for the World Cups or whatsoever.

00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,360
But it's same wall same wall design same holes all over the world and then the setting teams

00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:28,720
of course like we always have like IFC setters plus like a few national setters but I don't

00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:35,120
think the national setters bring enough identity from the nations always to make the World Cup

00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:43,920
look and feel like entirely different between like United States and Europe and I think it

00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,760
would be super cool if we for example had like okay we're going to the United States

00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,600
like tennis for example okay okay now I'm on so tennis we got the Australian open now

00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,440
hard hard hard court then we're moving on to French open the surfaces sand clay then we're

00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,480
moving on to Wimbledon which is grass court which is not fair it plays like the same rules but it

00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,120
plays like different speed balls bounce differently different techniques blah blah blah then we're

00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:16,560
going back to hard court with the US open but and for climbing in my opinion it would be super cool

00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,520
for example we start the season in China we got like 80 percent of the holes are Chinese

00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:27,360
holes Chinese wall design we have mainly Chinese setters maybe a few IFC setters to

00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:34,240
be there for the level and take care of that the styles are that it's like a well catered round

00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,920
and they know the athletes but then it feels like you're going to China and maybe you've

00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,640
seen the holes maybe not but it feels like really Chinese I don't know what Chinese climbing style

00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:48,080
could be but for sure if you go for example to the United States like they used to be comms like

00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:55,040
I don't know like all this dark horse series from the early 2010s or before that like super

00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:02,400
powerful climbing whale whale yeah like the the early whale stuff like 360s on two finger pockets

00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,840
big like huge open pinches like super steep climbing powerful climbing like longer bowlers

00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,840
more moves and it looked like very American balls like six meter high and you're like oh

00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:20,400
what the fuck if I if I fall now I might die I don't give it's just like in a different experience

00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,080
compared to another country that would be super cool because it's also cool for storytelling like

00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,800
football for example until 2014 whenever there was like a football world championship

00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:39,360
in South America it was always South American teams winning so imagine you have a Japanese

00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:46,400
World Cup on Japanese brands set by Japanese setters in Japan it could be like a cool story

00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,360
like will we ever see someone winning a Japanese World Cup who's not from Japan

00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:57,040
yeah yeah stuff like this like if every World Cup feels entirely different and and I don't know

00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,120
whether the nations would be able to have like a certain style but if I take a look at French

00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:06,480
root setting of course they have steep stuff and funky stuff but like and the

00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:12,560
like with their French spices like maybe like not even like really steep walls needed they could

00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,360
set a French World Cup style on vertical slabby walls would be so cool like so different to see

00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,760
with French brands French setters just like that would be really distinctive

00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:31,440
but I think nowadays it's not distinctive I think you nailed that I think basically the message is

00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:38,560
standardization is bad standardization of holds standardization of wall all of that's coming in

00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:44,160
now and we're not going to see as much variety as we used to have and so if we like did an American

00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:49,040
World Cup it would just be like shitty PU holds and then that's that's what we want to see why not

00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,800
like why not it's kind of cool yeah just really different thing what might what might happen is

00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:01,280
we go so far down the standardization route that we end up with a lot of people who are

00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:09,920
up setting exactly the same boulder for each round and you you you just test yourself on the same

00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,320
boulder across the season it would be super boring yeah I think I think we're going there

00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:20,560
well like it feels like we're going there we standardize walls setting teams holes then you

00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:26,880
can also like make up 20 imagine you make up like 20 different boulder problems pre-season everyone

00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,720
knows the boulder problems we have their preset and then they're like wildly they have different

00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:40,160
difficulty gradings like like if you do um jumping diving olympic sports you do like

00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,520
too salty you get a 2.8 and then it's just like how you execute it or how fast you execute it

00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,240
acrobatics as well like there are different kind of stuff you can do and different ratings you get

00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:58,240
for it so you could have like 20 or 30 pre-med boulder problems people know the boulder problems

00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:04,000
and then they get wildly picked so you never know like randomly picked for each round then it's like

00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:09,680
ah jake again on the slab three months ago and vail you didn't have a good time on the slab but

00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,680
maybe this time here in paris did he train for the slab you know like then it would be at least like

00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:21,520
a little bit like historical wise or like you could easily compare training footage and training

00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:28,480
experiences to real comp experience it would be utterly boring but it would also make sense

00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:35,360
the way the whole stuff is happening right now because for being an olympic sport it's nicer

00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:42,400
to have something to talk about and something which is like really easy to compare and if you

00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:48,720
can just say oh jenny again on the triple dino uh category three out of four uh oh she had a training

00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,360
camp let's take a look at the clip from her and the training camp then we see some footage of you

00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,800
training in salt lake then you're there in prague on the marketplace and you're like okay ah

00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:04,560
secondary she did it so apparently she trained really hard this is category three out of four

00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:11,200
she gets that many points and everyone believe oh yeah i understand that makes sense and this

00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,880
could be a way i'm pretty sure like we're going there somehow yeah because i mean we kind of get

00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:22,080
a little bit of that with them setting different-ish variations of the same moves with all the

00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:31,680
laches and stuff like that but okay um so outside of i guess world cup stuff what are some of the

00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:40,000
favorite comps that you have set for style wise or uh competition format wise i don't i don't think

00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:47,200
i've set a weird format recently um recent comps i've done that i really enjoyed is we have a comp

00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:53,200
in london called brawl on the wall um in november every year that's a sick comp that's just in it

00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,240
uh in its third year so it's in its infancy it's getting bigger every year that's going like

00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,720
that's gonna get that's gonna be big soon it's gonna be like the quiff of the sound

00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,280
do you know quiff yeah i've watched that well i also saw brawl on the wall i was gonna ask you

00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,240
a little bit about that if you wanted to get into it please excuse this brief intermission but if

00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,440
you're interested in deleted scenes from this episode where i get grilled on my definition of

00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:25,920
a pro climber and we do more gym trash talking do consider helping support this podcast on patreon

00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,760
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00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,120
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00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,640
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of the guests if you'd like to help out non-monetarily liking commenting and sharing

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helps a great deal as well back to the show yeah yeah sure brawl's cool brawl's like um our attempt

00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:58,960
at bringing the international athletes into london for a big comp well yeah so like what is the

00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:04,160
difference between that and and quiff there in terms of the format there's basically no difference

00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:10,320
no difference um quiff is quiff just has a has a legacy it's been going for i don't know how long

00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:18,240
has quiff been going 15 years at least a long time um but i think perhaps quiff is sort of

00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:27,360
um i feel like quiff is becoming old it's starting to it's starting to taper off now um and maybe

00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:35,760
the london is the future of big comps in the uk i hope let's let's see but yeah it was always

00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,920
it was always quiff dot masters and studio block masters is like the the comps for international

00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:47,840
athletes before the start of the season and brawl on the wall is is sort of that but after the

00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,280
season yeah so i mean there were some like pretty big names there like toby and erin

00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,080
um but i feel like there were also some other competitors who are maybe i mean still really

00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:04,480
good but like more like local climbers kind of yeah how do you set something that's hard enough

00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:10,800
for like olympians but uh not so hard that they can manage it during their training season and

00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:16,160
also like something that's not too challenging for people who are more like local climbers

00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:23,360
wow to to to set for the two different ability levels you just have um you just have multiple

00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,160
rounds call these semis and finals and then eventually they they get they get weeded out

00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:36,800
but um you can always make you can always make people fall off in four minutes uh even even toby

00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:46,560
even erin you just just uh put them on a slab give them a bad bad foot load um there's a lot

00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:54,320
there's lots of tricks and it's kind of it's kind of infinite to explain um but making them fall off

00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:01,760
is is kind of kind of okay it's kind of fine you find you find your personal limit and then you go

00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:08,800
like way harder and it's a it's a like an experience thing so i've set for toby quite a lot now i know

00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,240
i know roughly how good he is and that's outrageously good you know there's a there's

00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:21,120
a group of setters who all know the level so you sort of you you educated guess it based on the

00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:28,160
vibes based on vibes based on experience and uh understanding of their level yeah but the the

00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:35,360
thing about the thing about setting for both for both toby and like local wads um slab is a really

00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:42,000
good good example you can you can use slab to level the playing field like a local londoner

00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:49,520
and toby could have a similar experience on a really hard slab um but for example with a with

00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:55,920
a power boulder like toby will always have a major advantage he's just ridiculously strong it's super

00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:02,800
hard to set for both abilities but about but a coordination boulder for example uh would also

00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,640
work that someone who's like really into funky flowy moves would have like a chance to feel what

00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,800
toby is doing there uh he's pretty good but he's not like the best in coordination for example like

00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:22,000
running boulders yeah yeah but in general like all these like who is on the team jake like a

00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,360
like the setting team because there's there's always like ifc setters at least like one yeah

00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:34,960
yeah included uh jan janu he's chief he's chief lots of um lead world cups and he's chiefed i

00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:40,880
think he's chiefed a couple uh boulder world cups um he was on the team so he has a really good

00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:48,800
understanding and then um matt vc he's he's he's in charge he uh he's an incredibly strong guy you

00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,160
know it was a good team strong team yeah there were also some like really cool light up holds

00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:59,200
how did those work like where how did you hook them up they were um yeah they were

00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:07,600
trans transparent holds from ag ag holds okay in china and um yeah vc spent like a day uh just

00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:15,680
lining the inside with uh just le led strips it's pretty low low-fi but they work quite well

00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,720
yeah are we gonna see those in the world cups i mean maybe why not light up stuff yeah why not

00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,240
i think they're not they're not uh they're not organized enough i thought they were like one of

00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:32,880
the world cup hold manufacturers now yeah like you might be able to see sorry sorry you might be able

00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,840
to see like the transparent holes but not nothing with the backlight i'm pretty sure oh sure okay

00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,400
yeah that's what i mean i i vote for that going forward though if we want to make if we want to

00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:49,040
make world cups more of a spectacle why not light things up fire like like concepts we need more

00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:55,680
fire more laser more more more fire yeah more more pyrotechnique yeah but people are a little

00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,960
bit too afraid i think but it would be so cool you top out and get like the fountain of fire

00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,440
like or just straight straight up fireworks well like like men's and women's for fireworks why not

00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,640
yeah and especially you could blast it out of the wall because you know like where the climbers are

00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:20,480
like you know like you can take this um like this powder uh and you can keep it behind the wall and

00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,840
then blast it like with a leaf blower out i tried it already and then you can you can put a smoke

00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:32,000
machine smoke machine like yeah there's like indefinite uh like options to make climbing

00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:39,920
a little bit appear better but like yeah i think yeah well it sounds expensive but yeah well i feel

00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,520
like there was a there was a comp back in the day where once someone topped out or maybe they got

00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:50,960
the top it would like blow like smoke or something like that yeah maybe adidas rock stars had that

00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,720
when they hit when they hit the buzzer oh yeah okay that yeah we could do a break off series

00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:02,480
basically like there should be a there should be the world cup which is like standardized and

00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,800
whatever it can do what it wants it can stay serious and then there should be a breakaway series

00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,280
that's kind of chaos yeah if i was a billionaire i would do this yeah the issue is that it's

00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:25,440
expensive we need like saudi we need saudi investment we need the oil money yeah okay i'll ask um but but

00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,600
i think in general like in europe we have more and more comps like which are like pre iFC or

00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:35,280
after i see like really invitational comps like in belgium there was the other one and next year

00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,600
we will have that yeah in general we'll go to dock masters then there's quiff and march and then

00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:46,080
there's studio block masters in march and they all have a have an open invitational format where

00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:51,920
everyone climbs on the same boulders more or less like the like the stars like the pros

00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:58,960
and then yeah then it goes into semis and funs does that concept exist in the states like uh

00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:07,680
regular gym goers climbing alongside like natalia and brook uh i haven't heard of it no i don't think

00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:12,560
i've really seen it because if i'd seen it i would definitely go maybe it's because america's so

00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:21,280
spread out sorry boulder project seattle wait or was it minneapolis like nick told me they are going

00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:28,400
to do a big comm series and i think it's like over multiple weeks multiple stations and then there's

00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,520
a big round off and someone from canada i think it was caleb also told me that in canada they have a

00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:40,240
lot of like there's like a comm season after the iFC season or maybe before like then canada multiple

00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:46,960
different comps like over yeah like multiple gyms always like follow up each weekend or after

00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,480
fortnight a lot of people spend a lot of time there to make money i think it was caleb i'm

00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:58,080
pretty sure it was canada montreal and stuff like that oh someone back me up here please i don't know

00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:06,080
haven't heard of that one either okay i'll find out yeah i mean bouldering project um i mean it's

00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,680
not really like a bunch of pros show up there will be like semi pros i guess i kind of show up to

00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:18,160
those um but it's usually more of just like a local car yeah i was wondering how right regular

00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:25,760
gym goes get to climb with world cup athletes and i guess it it happens in europe because of quiff

00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:32,880
thought masters studio blotless etc etc but does it happen in america but but i think your original

00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:38,480
original question maybe something to add is like different conformance and i think we're going more

00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:45,440
and more into these like big into a invitational formats and there's not much innovation or back

00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:51,920
in the days i think they still do it at rock masters like a elimination format and we used to

00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,800
have it for years like at our fun comp at my parents gym it's great like you start with six

00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:02,480
finalists which all start and boulder number one and afterwards you eliminate two which is highly

00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,840
unfair but in the end you have only two people competing for the title which is pretty cool and

00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:15,280
i think it's a really good format difficult to set for and i think my favorite format we ever ran

00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,840
was like hard moves like a team team combination team competition it's like seven seven guys back

00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:28,400
then and three women in a team and then you try to top as many problems as possible within the whole

00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:36,000
team and then people move into a final and i think we had six or five cities within the final it was

00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:41,440
always like you competed for one gym or one city so it's like you know these people and then in the

00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:47,680
final we had six boulders five different lanes and the six boulder was hidden so no one knew like what

00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:54,720
the six boulder the style was but then within the final team it's six six climbers out of the 10

00:43:54,720 --> 00:44:01,360
people and you have to appoint them like one of these boulders so like jake this looks like a

00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,240
dino do you want to climb the dino or do you want to climb the powerful boulder so jake goes to climb

00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:13,280
the dino then you look for the best check of all trades for boulder number six which no one has

00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:20,720
seen so far and then yeah three attempts for everyone and it was like seven meters high above

00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:28,240
water and an inside swimming pool was like because like it was so sick it with with a crowd of like

00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:33,040
5000 people it was the sickest thing and now it doesn't exist man you should do it again

00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:40,400
what's called hard hard moves i will send you the youtube link it's uh now we're not doing it again

00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:47,920
but like how long the qualification phase took like like a month or six weeks yeah yeah so like

00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:55,520
every city over yeah yeah so the last format for example was like you had like 30 gyms qualifying

00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:02,640
and it was like for example like six gyms from berlin and then each gym of berlin had like 60

00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:08,320
boulder problems over four weeks or 100 boulder problems for six weeks then you tried to climb

00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:14,800
as many as possible top on or nothing that's it uh you add all the points and then you make it into

00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:21,680
the top 10 top seven male top three women back then and then these six berlin gyms they battled

00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:31,440
out two final spots for the super final which was in another city so like you climbed with all these

00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,280
people you had all the sessions with together against another gym tried to get more points

00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,400
and tops than this gym then you went to the super final meeting like all these other cool cities and

00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,440
people and teams from other cities and it was like the last edition yeah we had london we had the arch

00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:54,000
we had a gladres center from stockholm they brought adam ondra and anthony goulston stuff like this

00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:01,040
yeah it was so cool you had some swiss you had some swiss walls yeah yeah swiss swiss belgium

00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:08,640
gyms dutch gyms german gyms uh so it was pretty international and then like in the swim opera

00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,480
was dope because it was like a team event it's like way more and that like you have these climbers

00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:22,000
you also have like people who uh climbed in the qualification phase they're sitting uh in the

00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,240
audience and they're just like cheering you on it's like way more personal if you see someone

00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:31,760
who's like yeah i know this dude and he climbs within a team like like with julevorm or like with

00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,840
with adam ondra within a team because like you don't have yeah if you're lucky and you're really

00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,760
really good you can make it still like into the team and i think that's pretty cool this could be

00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:49,280
done on an on an uh on an international level like usa versus germany versus japan can you imagine that

00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:55,280
it would be so sick and then it and it could also be uh like a series like you do five or six events

00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,080
in a year the organization would be astronomical but that would be cool man yeah and that's the

00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:08,880
thing it also works like i tried it two years ago in the netherlands uh we did it at a gym

00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:15,120
uh ropo and groningen so we did a normal uh qualification phase i think 40 qualification

00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,600
boulders i won't clunt as many as possible and people didn't know how the finals worked

00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:27,120
then we had uh the first top the first eight men and the first eight women then they got mixed

00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:36,080
together crosswise uh into teams by four and we only had four final boulders and then we had like

00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:42,000
yeah all these teams and then they clumped together and they also were like okay ginny this looks

00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,120
probably like a good roofball up for you do you want to do this and was super cool because again

00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,520
the crowd is super involved and you're climbing within a team especially like smaller local comms

00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:58,400
if people are not really used to a lot of competitions it can be like super uh they can

00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,840
be nervous like can be super intimidating to climb in the final and like this everyone is like a

00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:09,120
little bit like encouraged to try really hard and to do it like it's more like a communal thing

00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,520
so it works if you really want to do it so then nicky any comps you've really enjoyed setting for

00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:29,920
recently yeah nicky no i'm so done with comps i'm so i don't know yeah yeah like yeah i can't

00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:35,360
identify myself with it anymore like i i it's so difficult for me because i don't know the people

00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:42,480
i also don't care that much about the people anymore like the comp climbers i don't know i'm

00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,280
not at that level i just don't care anymore i'm over i think i'm really done with it so i'm just

00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:54,480
mainly filming yeah yeah i don't think i will set a comp next year wow that's that's not possible

00:48:54,480 --> 00:49:01,440
it is why not what if i what if i invite you to hang yeah okay

00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:12,080
because it's because it's you did you have like a particularly bad experience or just like slowly

00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:17,600
over time you aren't enjoying it as much anymore just slowly over like i'm in no no physical state

00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:23,440
that i that i can feel like anywhere close to it anymore like not even on slabs or vertical walls

00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:30,080
anymore and i just don't care like i've seen too many comps set too many comps it's just like it

00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:36,880
doesn't matter so it sounds like really nihilistic but it's just like there's nothing new just utter

00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,840
boring and it's always like wasting a complete weekend so i like like it when we do it when we

00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,400
do it in london because it's with our friends and what's ever like like i'm visiting friends and

00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:53,680
family but on the other and it's a really spoiled and privileged point of view but i've been part of

00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:00,800
comms and watching comms now since like over 20 years so it's okay yeah and there are a lot of

00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:07,200
people who have a lot of fire for in it who think like they know how it works and okay if we do this

00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:13,680
this happens from my experience like there's so much luck involved so is a roll of the dice and

00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:19,360
if you do you do anything you do anything for a certain amount of time you get you get jaded you

00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:25,680
get bored of it you've seen you've seen everything you can possibly see so you move on to the next

00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:32,240
thing and if i if i can speak for you nicky um i think nicky is in his in his phase where he's

00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:39,680
trying to give um beginner climbers or lower ability climbers the best possible experience

00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:45,440
um like nicky's really keen on setting accessible stuff nowadays and i think maybe that's always

00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,520
always been true but especially now um and like teaching people the fundamentals of climbing

00:50:52,320 --> 00:51:01,680
and just and setting generally um like comps are really exclusive they're only for the the top one

00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:10,560
the top one or two percent of people um like it's better to give back to the 99 i think right yeah

00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:16,080
that makes sense i i'm in it i'm in it for the one percent at the moment but i'll be like nicky in a

00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:21,440
in a few years yeah so then going forward nicky you mentioned you will be doing workshops at the

00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:28,560
franken your academy um are these workshops for centers or yeah so so over the last few years i've

00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:34,080
done like a lot of workshops internationally nationally and it's mainly like going into gyms

00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:39,200
and doing like in-house workshops for the gyms when they have an existing team they got problems

00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:46,160
on their day-to-day basis or i rented uh existing gym walls and then invited setters from everywhere

00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:51,840
to participate in workshops these workshops are and now we found a space franken your academy

00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:57,600
and forshan close to nürnberg in the franken euro in germany which has uh which offers like the

00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:05,920
possibilities for lead and boulder setting to host workshops from a basic level for beginners people

00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,640
who have never sat before who want to get into setting or who just want to try it for one day

00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:16,800
people who are already setting commercially or comp wise we will run commercial setting classes

00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:24,000
comp setting classes new school setting and and hopefully also like sooner or later some mentoring

00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:30,720
about like how for for for head setters or for other people because we need spaces like this

00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:36,560
people cannot experiment enough anymore and it's like the gym is closed when you do stuff

00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:42,000
there are no customers around we have all the materials all the holes all the walls and volumes

00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:48,800
just to play around and i hope yeah this is my next big project just to share and see like how we can

00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:54,960
professionalize this and like open more spaces for a lot of people to just play around and learn and

00:52:54,960 --> 00:53:02,400
uh experiment yeah and like but this goes from commercial to comp as well i guess in terms of

00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:07,280
learning and experimenting it's hard for me to imagine coming up with new moves at this point

00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:15,920
how do you imagine setting continuing to innovate it's hard for us to imagine as well um i think

00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:26,000
i think i think the material the the holds that are available generally um they like they set the

00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:36,160
trend the so i think maybe we'll see way more no-techs slippery um i think we haven't seen

00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,520
anything of that yet we'll see a lot more of that in the coming years although i don't i don't think

00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,720
it's cool it's just um just different it's really easy yeah it's different and it's like a really

00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:54,880
easy way to get people to fall off um it's maybe not the not the best way but it's it works uh and

00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:02,000
everyone's in the same boat i think we'll see a lot more of that um yeah equipment is the is the

00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,880
thing that will change like what holds are available and then in in terms of moves like

00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:16,080
i think we'll see bigger combinations so um i don't know like this time last year there was a french

00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:23,040
comp that was jokingly referred to as the french traverse champs it was like gigantic 20 20 meter

00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:29,440
sideways like paddle dinos like infinitely super long i think we might see way more of that

00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:35,440
and again i'm not sure i'm a fan of it i'm not sure i'm a fan of it but i don't know i hope we

00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,960
will see like some like hardcore moves again just like three or four moves like straightforward

00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,960
board climbing and i'm pretty sure because like a lot of the ifsc setters right now

00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:51,120
i think a lot of them are like the newer ones who are getting into charge they want to mix it up

00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:59,120
again getting out of the funk and also like show just like raw precision power yeah i hear they're

00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:04,880
starting to add back in more strengthy crimp moves and they can only do this if it's not the olympic

00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,760
combined format they can only do this with one zone if it's like two zones they're not allowed

00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:15,360
to do it because like it has like the style factors but seiyaku and tsukuru for example if

00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:20,080
you can say some names they're like pretty good and i think they're they want it like a little

00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:28,000
bit more like pure power and simple boulders like we we really want to see it as as climbers as

00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,680
setters we want to see it but i'm concerned that the audience won't necessarily understand what's

00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:39,040
happening if it's just like four move power boulder i don't know i don't know if the audience will be

00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:45,920
entertained so i feel like it might not work but let's cross our fingers i want to i want to see

00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:51,920
that i want to see um i want to see mantles like when was the last time you saw a so really hard

00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:59,280
mantle like a 2005 mantle on a green blob that's so sick bring it back no no you can only do this

00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:04,080
like with the with the ifsc world cup format you are not allowed to do this with the olympic

00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:11,040
qualification or olympic two zone format that's a problem yeah and and and some setters need to be

00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:17,840
like they need to be willing to to risk something in the world cup uh format like only with one zone

00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:23,680
to be like okay there's two moves there's a hard jump here and let me do a mantle and and it's for

00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:30,080
sure like more difficult to guess whether people will be able to climb this or not or like in how

00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:37,120
many attempts like a funky flowy parkour new school stuff it's always like easier to get more attempts

00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:45,520
out of it than a pure power problem yeah pure power is way more risky to sap yeah and to guess

00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:52,240
how good they are well also the thing is i guess if it's just a pure power boulder then it's quite

00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:58,080
possible we'll either just see people be able to climb it or not be able to climb it and it might

00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,120
not be very enjoyable to watch someone get like shut down on something and then they like can't

00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:08,400
make progress and it's just four minutes of watching someone not be strong enough to do

00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,120
something and they can't get like suddenly stronger in the moment yeah that's the thing it's

00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:19,360
yeah it's difficult to see the process yeah okay so we want to see more mantles and maybe power

00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:26,000
moves what's a move you're tired of seeing yeah we we want to see more mantles i'm so incredibly

00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:34,720
sick of lashes like 20 2023 was the year of the lash and oh my god it's so easy to set and so

00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:42,160
incredibly useful and it works it works so well for comps but i'm sick of it no more lashes get

00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:49,440
rid of lashes okay and i'm sick of the the 180 degree turnaround on a slab on this one footer

00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:54,720
i'm so sick of it because like it's always like first we stand up then we traverse over so it's

00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:01,200
like a lot of horizontal horizontal space with nothing yeah i'm so sick of it and with that one

00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:06,320
especially once you understand the formula to setting it um it's just this it's exactly the

00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:13,760
same every single time like maybe the color of the holds change but that's pretty much it yeah so i'd

00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:18,960
like to see more yeah like i think we both agree on like powerful a little bit more simple stuff

00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:26,560
but uh i'd like to see also more like like deathy corners or like weird chimney chimney chimney would

00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:33,760
be so cool a mental like full body like extortion horizontal pressed out like quarry man style and

00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:41,120
imagine that in a world cup people's brains would explode like um like like traditional climbing

00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:49,440
techniques but ultra ultra hard that would be cool in injuries all over the place yeah elbows

00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:54,160
fly but you can present them like way nicer nowadays you have all this like beautiful material

00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,760
you can do a lot of like good looking crazy stuff yeah how do you make a chimney hard enough for a

00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:05,280
world cup depends on like like how how open the corners like if the if the corner is like really

00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:11,040
shallow then it's uh all of a sudden about flexibility and like and you could use a lot

00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:16,640
of like dual texts or like maybe even no text just to make like every movement pretty pretty precise

00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:23,040
and intricate just like flat stuff like you can do it if you want it you can do it for people who

00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:29,680
haven't seen it like what jake was talking about the quarry man johnny doors clumbers like it's

00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:35,120
like one of the most amazing probably my dream route but i should do stretching for this

00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:47,280
yeah but it's like the it's an 8a chimney uh corner climb at a plus route it's amazing it's

00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:52,560
like one of the most amazing climbs and and the slates so yeah in the slate quarry in wales

00:59:52,560 --> 01:00:00,480
oh so cool okay so more chimneys more mantles fewer laches which i'm okay with because i still

01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:07,520
haven't really figured out that move i just i don't know it just doesn't work for me they won't go

01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:14,000
away though unfortunately because they're so incredibly useful and so easy to set maybe

01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,640
we'll we'll see we'll see fewer of them eventually but it's going to take a little while for them to

01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:27,120
really go um yeah what about you so yeah i agree with fewer laches i don't think there's been

01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,320
too many 360 moves because i don't think i've actually gotten a chance to try that myself

01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:39,520
um moves i want to see more of i guess not that i actually want to see more of this

01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:48,240
but um it was really exciting to watch it was the step up into no-tex fist jam in the prog semis

01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:54,960
oh yeah yeah i hated it but it was it was pretty cool yeah that was cool so it was different

01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:01,440
you don't see that all the time that's that's good difference is like uh yeah different stuff

01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:06,640
basically that's that's what we want yeah but again i don't want them to set it a bunch because

01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,160
that will get boring yeah because if you if you see too much of it the world cup then people will be

01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:17,520
jumping into cracks in your in your local wall and that's not that's not cool have you set the

01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:25,520
step up fist jam before or jump into a crack yeah of course it's horrible it's painful it's horrible

01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:33,280
i mean do the other day in in in china like a fist jam but like in a dual-tex uh yeah that was like

01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:39,360
a runner and then uh throw your fist into a dual-tex crack like a shape like a v and you were sliding

01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:49,040
right in um actually quite enjoyable but yeah agree to disagree on that um so it seems like you both

01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:55,200
prefer freelance setting or did you have dreams of becoming world cup setters one day or still

01:01:55,200 --> 01:02:02,240
have that dream no no it's already too late for me i'm i'm i'm 33 i'm old and i'm too weak

01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:08,080
so no i like i like i like how fake realistic you are you wouldn't be too weak you would just need

01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:14,720
to specialize on your special skills but like it's it's good that you're not doing it like i like

01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:20,400
from a friend's perspective because i get more of you as a friend and you're not like super busy all

01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:27,760
the time becoming a world cup setter yeah um like i i set for the gb team but even if even if a world

01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:34,320
cup came to the uk came to sheffield or london or you know a boulder world cup in the uk i wouldn't

01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:40,000
i wouldn't be in i wouldn't be in with a chance of joining that team i don't think i'd be i'd still

01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:49,280
be you know like eighth or ninth or tenth in line to be that local setter well you look at five maybe

01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:57,600
maybe fifth no i don't know cousins is above me you know cousins met uh like cousins max yeah

01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:05,120
yeah but like like yan yan jaime and all these guys oh not you now okay how do you get higher on

01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:12,720
the list is it like based on ability or strength or just like knowing the right people no no no

01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:18,000
not about how much they it's not political it's uh purely purely strength and experience um

01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:24,240
um there are just other people who have been doing it longer and are better probably yeah we

01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:28,480
shouldn't say this public that met cousins is a better set on climber than you should probably

01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:35,600
not do this his ego would be man's absolute sandbagger i can't i can't i can't um i tried

01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:40,400
to climb one of his boulders in yonder the other day after after i had my christmas dinner like

01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:48,240
two days before it was graded v8 and for sure it was v11 12 maybe super super hard the man's a

01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:59,600
sandbagger uh so freelance yeah commercial setting yeah commercial setting or or competitions like

01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:06,320
lower level competitions for me are just they're just way more fun it's um it's just an easier

01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:12,880
task and there's there's way more creativity you can kind of more or less do what you want more

01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:17,840
freedom the the thing i also think about comp setting nowadays it's not only setting the

01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:22,960
competition like getting into setting the competition is super competitive nowadays

01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,240
it's it's like i'm part of the organizing team for studio block masters and just like putting

01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:35,040
the team together i get so many messages of people who are like um can i set the finals can i set like

01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:39,200
can i come and set and blah blah blah blah blah some of these guys i don't even know

01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:45,840
i don't know the qualifications and then it's like so many experienced good setters who are

01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:52,080
already setting so and who are out there nowadays it's uh difficult to find even spots it was easier

01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:58,160
like a few years ago i got it now like i was pretty lucky well jake what do you feel like you're

01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:06,240
missing in terms of skills to become a world cup setter well probably i maybe i should have been

01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:12,320
a competitor i never actually competed um one one of the guys who's just become a

01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:19,120
world cup setter in the uk max airton he he had like three or four years on the competition

01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:28,800
circuit so he has that under his belt um he's also i think he's only 29 or 30 he's he's young um

01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:35,440
yeah it's just like loads of time is it more lucrative to do freelance setting i'm not sure

01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:41,520
what the pay is like for world cup setters either uh i i don't i don't know either they don't know

01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:46,640
i think for the boran world world championship when they were setting like almost like 18 days

01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:52,320
in a row they got like 180 or maybe 200 euros a day so basically nothing well for the job they

01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:58,480
did that's so bad yeah so so i think like for really earning money you need to be like

01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:04,000
maybe the boulder boulder world cups nowadays i think they the world cup itself pays a little

01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:09,600
bit better and i think the chief is like and like paid from monday till sunday or sunday till sunday

01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:16,160
and gets like more money how many do you do per year you know it's yeah that's the thing like even

01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:25,200
if you get like 500 for a day like a boulder world cup as a chief and it's like 4 000 after taxes

01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:31,440
paying health insurance travel costs blah blah blah blah blah blah like you get travel costs and

01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:38,160
and hotel but you have to pay for food and the week afterwards is usually your debt and the days

01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:43,680
and the days beforehand so that's a good question like freelance setting i think it depends on the

01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:49,760
country but like even if you do like three days in a row or like three days a week then you end

01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:56,560
in germany which is like which can pay like up to 350 euros then you end up with uh 12 times

01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:07,440
350 what's that nine 1050 times four times four that's like 4 200 euros and in germany after

01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:14,480
taxes because you get over the tax bracket like you get like we pay 40 40 percent taxes then you

01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:22,080
didn't pay health insurance yet you need to take care of that you find jobs that you yeah in my

01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:27,680
opinion like you can do freelancing for some time but it's not a longevity you think like if you have

01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:34,240
if you're employed somewhere as a setter and you get some freelance setting from time to time

01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:40,480
uh it's a more sustainable income and way of living and and most of the world cup setters also

01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:48,480
have a gym or a move or a headset or somewhere sascha for example he started now at uh a course

01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,680
because he was like okay i want to do more commercial settings again and like have a

01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:59,440
probably steady income we didn't talk about the income but he wanted not only comp setting

01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:08,880
so go head setter b pump you know i don't know many ifc setters who are fully freelance i know more

01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:16,880
like people all guys fully uh conceding freelance but i don't know like i know more people who are

01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:23,920
freelancing just commercially than conceding wise in in london for example i think there are 32 walls

01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:31,600
now and most of them take freelancers so if i wanted to i could probably work six days a week

01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:37,760
but it's completely it's completely unsustainable like i'd be i'd be burnt out within within a month

01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:46,240
so i think uh the potential uh potential for it to be lucrative is is there but

01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:52,960
it never really works out because you unless you're a machine you can't work uh freelance you can't

01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:59,520
set like five days a week for a whole year you'd be you'd be broken it's nice to have it's nice to

01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:05,120
have like a head setting role as your security you're like backup because you can do you have

01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:10,240
some time to do some admin work behind the computer so you can rest yeah that makes sense it seems a

01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:16,160
lot more restful than just selling your physical labor i guess um okay so i also just wanted to

01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:21,120
touch a bit on your setting podcast another setting podcast for those who haven't checked it out yet

01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:27,360
um have you been enjoying it and what's the plans for that in the future oh yeah we have a podcast

01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:28,960
we were on a break

01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:37,520
the future we should do it again but we were on a break i think uh since before

01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:45,280
font and blow like we went to font when did we go to font october oh october yeah yeah then there

01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:51,520
that then there was november then i went to china and then we were super busy the last uh because

01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:58,080
like winter season is always the most busy season for us yeah setting wise and working wise workshops

01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:04,400
and competitions every single weekend it's chaos yeah it's crazy but yeah the the podcast will

01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:11,680
it will resume um once we're back on a regular schedule i don't know what february or january

01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:18,000
nick how we can do it next week honestly like i'm i'm back like i'm full of energy again

01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:25,680
we should talk about our year i read somewhere that if if you if we put out 21 podcasts or more

01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:31,760
then we've made it into the one percent group only one percent make it that far yeah yeah yeah

01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:36,000
and i think i think we've done nine now nicky or ten we have to keep on pushing

01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:43,680
me but it's basically just yeah just us talking sometimes we invite friends just to talk about

01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:49,280
root setting and sports in our life we we don't do that much technical stuff like we start and

01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:54,800
then we hit record and then we stop and then i upload the stuff like i haven't even figured

01:10:54,800 --> 01:11:00,400
out how to upload it to other streaming platforms outside of sport you fuck i can help you out with

01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:05,680
that the only the only difficult thing is finding topics i think i think we'll run out of topics

01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:11,360
very quickly so we need we need to start bringing in guests and i don't think so jake but we also

01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:18,480
have a lot of guests if we wanted to yeah i know the long long list if we want to maybe we should

01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:26,240
just start talking about other sports love it dude here did i tell you there's the brisbane open like

01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:32,080
tennis starts again curious is playing with joker which yesterday i watched the double that's amazing

01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:38,240
and i'm going to watch australian open in murban like in two weeks this is my big goal to nice too

01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:45,120
we should go to the modem again maybe check out oh yeah okay yeah yeah yeah i've got goals i would

01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:51,280
not necessarily recommend adding a bunch of guests scheduling is kind of a pain in the ass

01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:59,280
setup time yeah it's not so simple okay so that wraps it up for all the questions i had

01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:05,120
um let's move into some of the discord questions first one why is it so rare for gyms to have

01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,320
footwork intense climbs when that style is pretty prevalent outside is it just that the trends are

01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:16,400
more dynamic climbing or is there some fundamental thing that makes footwork climbs particularly

01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:22,800
particularly difficult to set who asked this come to europe come to europe this is clearly an

01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:27,120
american asking this question actually yeah you're right wow it's that obvious and this comes down

01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:34,240
probably like to to to the holes because we have like indefinite amounts of bad footholds and we

01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:40,240
have an indefinite amount of good slabs also indefinite amounts of plywood volumes which are

01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:48,720
functional and tapered in again indefinite amount of angles so we have a lot of like nasty footwork

01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:55,360
balancey footwork and all the grades in majority of gyms like if you don't have if you don't have

01:12:55,360 --> 01:13:01,040
volumes and you don't have small footholds and none of your setters in well i'm being really

01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:06,800
general here but let's say most of the setters in the u.s don't have any experience of slab climbing

01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:12,640
or like proper slab climbing then they will never set it there's no opportunity to set it so that's

01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:18,240
that's why you don't see it as much but if you come to if you come to germany france uk you'll

01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:24,880
see loads of it we love setting it yeah and i think a lot of people like probably if they have a slab

01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:32,480
to utilize the place of a slab and sometimes setters destroyed with a second or third draft

01:13:32,480 --> 01:13:36,880
if you have something really balancey you need to be close to the wall and maybe this is like more

01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:42,320
for the setters out there so you set like the first slab boulder then you test it or roughly

01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:48,080
so you know where you can put stuff and cannot put stuff imagine it as green zones where you can put

01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:55,760
holes or volumes in the second round which don't disturb like the first boulder of your first round

01:13:55,760 --> 01:14:03,040
and then you can create a difficult balancey stuff without having any protruding chesty

01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:09,120
holes in the way which throw you off the wall but it's like utilizing the other stuff which you have

01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:15,200
and if you don't have like a lot of like small footholds then you can still create like balancey

01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:21,200
stuff with big slopey tapered footholds but you need to find the right angle and right wall so

01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:27,440
then what do we americans need to do to get footwork intense climbs they need to be aware of it i need

01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:32,480
to commit to it and they can try to talk to their setting teams i think it's always worth like not

01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:41,520
be like oh this is shit but more like hey maybe could try to yeah focus on like balancing stuff

01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,800
like in the next slab or vertical wall set maybe they don't even know that they don't have that

01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:52,480
in their gyms a lot of people are not aware of how their gyms are designed or what they cater to not

01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:58,400
even like a lot of setters yeah they're pretty oblivious to what's happening around them all

01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:05,200
right so next question when trying to force a movement or when trying to develop a new move

01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:10,640
how important are the holds available can you make do most of the time or will you abandon the idea

01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:18,240
if the hold you need isn't at the gym or it doesn't exist yet well tricky uh there yeah the

01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:23,040
equipment available is incredibly important but if you have if you have the experience and the

01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:32,320
understanding of um how the physics of climbing works like you go from a stable position to an

01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:38,400
unstable position to a stable position again if you understand that you can probably get by with

01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:43,040
most equipment but there are certain things like really radical things where you might need

01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:48,880
you might need some dual texture it's also time and place like how much time like question is

01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:55,760
like how much time do you have to encourage to force the move is it like restricted to

01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:04,240
a difficulty level like are you trying to create like a triple dyno in 5a which is impossible

01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:09,600
uh and do you have like the right uh walls and angles so these are like three questions before

01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:14,080
then you can start experimenting and then if you don't have the resources like means holds

01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,840
for against macros whatsoever then can be difficult uh up to impossible and i think that's why we see

01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:26,880
a lot of like jibbing like uh putting like putting plastic onto plastic or plastic onto fiberglass

01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:32,880
they do it in the world cups because they have a restricted amount of time but also resources

01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:39,760
resources slash holes and whatsoever so they need to force a move and they just need to construct

01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:46,080
things it's just like yeah construction time like on a yeah and like build stuff and a lot of people

01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:52,160
do this in commercial setting as well and it's maybe the fastest way sometimes to achieve stuff

01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:58,800
but it damages your material so always take yeah take talk to the gym owner's headset or whatsoever

01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:05,440
um and the main question was whether it's possible always like without the material to force something

01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:09,920
yeah if you can force moves without a certain hold or if you would abandon the idea well it

01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:14,400
makes it easier and if you have a lot of time maybe you might achieve it with really not that

01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:21,040
good material but maybe it's impossible not every yeah not every move works with every material

01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:26,960
in every angle yeah the more stuff you have and the more time you have the easier it is to get

01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:35,680
there so then is there a hold that you think doesn't exist yet that should exist no no no no

01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:41,040
no it's all out there so i'm part of a whole company and i can say like after looking at

01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:49,360
the stretcher again what we're doing is basically a lot of like waste plastic pollution like so many

01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:56,560
of our holes have like the same function same visuals whatsoever there's not enough functionality

01:17:56,560 --> 01:18:04,240
there's a lot of like just too much dual text for example if there's like someone out there who knows

01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:12,560
the shaper of pusher who created like the biggest macro with like the biggest taper so so the concept

01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:19,280
of dual text for example is that you have the shiny surface which is slippery so you cannot grab

01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:28,160
it or stand on it then from pusher i say it again pusher produced like in china the the fiberglass

01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:33,680
volume has a sloper which is like 20 or 30 centimeters wide maybe 20 centimeters deep but

01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:40,720
then it has like more than or like maybe a meter of taper of dual text which you cannot use so you

01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:49,760
could use way less dual text way less like plastic and material to achieve the same effect maybe it

01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:55,040
doesn't look as good and there's a lot of stuff out there which just like doesn't make sense which

01:18:55,040 --> 01:19:00,880
just looks good which takes a lot of space off the wall which is just crap in my opinion and and just

01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:08,640
to add to that ramp that hold in particular it doesn't even taper where the dual text whether

01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:14,560
no text meets the wall it's like a 90 degree angle and you can it's like maybe three centimeters deep

01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:21,120
you could just grab that thing it's it's basically a joke fucking dumb mind my language um i'll leave

01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:25,840
a link in the description for people to take a look at what hold we're talking about um if they're

01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:32,480
curious curious what hold this is um i've never seen it before so it's not here at least okay so

01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:39,120
last question what makes a good beginner dino or parkour focused boulder or what do you consider

01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:45,920
the jug ladder of parkour routes that's a great question what do i consider the jug ladder of parkour

01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:55,920
so i think a really good new school parkour route boulder is accessible easy to learn or like

01:19:55,920 --> 01:20:02,400
accessible easy to repeat so you can try to learn it again and again or have the experience so

01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:10,240
it's like comfortable doesn't hurt whether you do it or you fail and it gives you a feeling of

01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:17,440
satisfaction once you did the move maybe something something like unexpected happens so your whole

01:20:17,440 --> 01:20:24,080
body moves and you never thought about this that they are that you might be able to do this like

01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:33,520
the easiest triple dino or a sideways step into a foot plant or a really really easy toe catch like

01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:39,280
in our last foundations of new school workshop we had unexpected really really easy toe catches

01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:45,120
which the setter never set never climbed and then all of a sudden like oh that's so cool

01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:54,800
um this would be yeah a jug ladder do you want to know maybe the easy toe yeah easy toe catch might

01:20:54,800 --> 01:21:01,360
be like way easier to achieve than a lot of people think it might be and it's also like way easier

01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:10,640
than people might think toe catch can be or or perhaps um an easy foot plant is very very simple

01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:19,360
to set and also sometimes super mind-blowing for the climber but very satisfying yeah so satisfying

01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:26,560
but like a like a two-part paddle dino can never be can never be the jug ladder equivalent okay yeah

01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:33,680
that makes sense what about jug ladder in the sense that maybe it's like uninspired or too simple or

01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:45,040
boring uh cool maybe a runner just like left right left runner into a side pole sometimes or like not

01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:50,320
into side pole that's I think runner to the left or right just like horizontal runner and but then

01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:59,280
you end up in a jug which is just like horizontal like in general we say don't tilt your holds like

01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:04,720
in a horizontal way because then the the directional force is just vertically vertical down

01:22:06,080 --> 01:22:12,080
and you start pulling and you never need to find like the the perfect position the sweet spot to

01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:16,960
hold the move or to hold the hold like as soon as that's the thing about the jug ladder like it's

01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:23,280
really forgiving uh because you just pull down like like like an ogre and you're like stop stop

01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:30,080
stomp stomp um but you you don't have like any experience of moving or like it doesn't create

01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:36,080
any feelings except for your legs and your biceps yeah you don't have to find you don't have to find

01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:43,040
a position the position is just there it just happens automatically it's the the satisfaction

01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:48,400
comes from finding the position yeah and we're talking a lot about like finesse or technique or

01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:54,240
feelings here and it might be difficult if you've never climbed in a gym which has climbs like this

01:22:54,240 --> 01:23:00,480
and there are climbs like gyms like this out there which are mainly physical pulling and don't have

01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:08,560
like this sweet spot of technique and flow or like body positioning and they have like you can do is

01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:16,000
we it's just our personal opinion i think that we don't prefer a simple or single-minded physical

01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:23,360
gym yeah but there's nothing wrong about the places itself no yeah i have heard that before

01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:28,960
um i took like a beginner route setting workshop before and i think i remember the instructor

01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:36,640
talking about like this beginner setters trap of wanting to make every hold horizontal and i would

01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:44,320
totally fall into that trap i think i'm just like i'm not creative enough in that way it's crazy how

01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:50,080
much things change if you tilt a hold like 45 degrees one way or 45 degrees another way yeah

01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:55,920
way different worlds of opportunity okay well that's all the questions i had then um any last

01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:05,440
minute words of wisdom you want to get out there words of wisdom spit it enjoy enjoy climbing

01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:10,720
don't climb for the number climb for the fun of it yeah that's a really good one like i i spent a

01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:17,040
lot of time on reddit for all the ask me and like for for the good stories but sometimes i see like

01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:25,360
climbers like okay this is a v5 in my gym would this be v4 v6 in your gym we don't know anything

01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:31,360
about the grading in your gym and whether it relates to what kind of reality every bouldering

01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:39,600
area is graded slightly different every gym is slightly different so the we always say like the

01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:46,480
difficulty should be just relative within your gym so it should be consistent within your gym

01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:54,480
in europe a lot of gyms or we at least we steer away from outdoor climbing grades on the tags

01:24:54,480 --> 01:25:01,840
because indoors is not outdoors doesn't make sense so you can also put like one to ten on it or a to

01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:06,720
g whatsoever no one cares it's just like to show like different levels within your gym

01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:13,760
so don't care about the rating don't care about any kind of plateaus it's just like happens then

01:25:13,760 --> 01:25:20,000
do something else do another kind of climb just like enjoy climbing and don't take it too serious

01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:26,000
it's just plastic it's plastic holes on the wall it's cool to meet people spend time with them

01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:32,880
do some stuff for your body but don't take it too serious wise words very insightful all right well

01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:37,440
thank you guys for joining me today want to let people know where they can find you what's the

01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:38,240
podcast called?

01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:46,000
Our podcast is called another setting podcast because we usually talk about setting and sports

01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,920
so if you want to get like a insight into root setting and into our minds

01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:55,840
uh uh that's called another setting podcast i have a youtube channel it's called beta root setting

01:25:55,840 --> 01:26:00,800
jake has a youtube channel as part of a youtube channel yeah you can find me on bouldering bobat

01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:06,960
uh you can also find me on my instagram jaker mason uh that's all i got what's my instagram

01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:15,040
uh schnicklas i don't know yeah follow for follow jake follow for follow um yeah that's what we do

01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:20,080
and if you want to learn setting and you're and you're in europe check out frontnewacademy.com

01:26:20,080 --> 01:26:24,960
because all these root setting workshops are for beginners or people who are already into setting

01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:28,960
and if you want to come and hang out if you want to come hang out we'll both be on the channel

01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:35,840
if you want to come hang out we'll both be at dock masters in near amsterdam and studio block masters

01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:43,760
near frankfurt this year january and march yeah yeah we'll be there hang out with us cool jake

01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:51,200
perfect thanks again great chatting with you guys thank you thanks jenny bye thank you so

01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:56,240
much for making it to the end of the podcast don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed

01:26:56,240 --> 01:27:02,320
otherwise you are a super fake climber if you're listening on a podcasting platform i'd appreciate

01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:07,760
if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing

01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:26,640
discord linked in the description thanks again for listening