34: Rodrigo Hanada, Team Brazil One to Watch

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starting to climb very chubby and always being like bigger than the other guys that has always

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like affected me mentally like it's a bit of a struggle.

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A climbing shoe here for us like costs a thousand and three hundred Reals for us and that's

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like the same as the minimum wage here in Brazil.

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It's like I didn't do a one arm pull up before being able to like win nationals or send like

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my first V13 outdoors.

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If you're trying to solve it with strength, you're doing it wrong.

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.

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I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today Rodrigo Hanada.

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Rodrigo is a boulder and lead climber from Team Brazil.

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He actually started climbing fairly recently in 2018 but since then has been a two time

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South American Cup winner and is working his way up the ranks on the World Cup circuit.

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In this episode, we talk about what makes training and climbing in Brazil difficult,

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how he feels like a weaker climber due to starting out as a chubbier kid and mindset

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tips he uses while competing.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Rodrigo.

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Real quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping make this podcast episode

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possible, Mad Rock Climbing.

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I got fitted with their brand new line of high performance shoes, the D2.1s.

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They just came out December 6th but you might notice a few of your favorite gum climbers

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are already wearing them like Oscar Boudrand from Team Canada and also me.

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This is the first time I've gotten to wear their shoes for an extended period of time

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and I'm actually super impressed with the grip of their in-house rubber and of course

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the famous drone heel that everyone says is the cheat code to heel hooking small edges.

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Feel free to message me if you have any questions about the shoes or sizing and you can use

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the discount code NotRealClimber for 10% off your entire Mad Rock order.

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Info will be in the description.

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Back to the show.

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But yeah, how are you doing today?

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Are you just home in Brazil at the moment?

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Yeah, I'm just home.

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Today is a rest day.

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So pretty chill.

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Yeah.

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Where in Brazil are you from?

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São Paulo.

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It's like the biggest city.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Unfortunately, I don't know too much about Brazil, but we'll get into that later and

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I'll learn more, which will be good.

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For sure.

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But yeah, let's get right into it.

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How did you get started climbing and competing?

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So yeah, I started climbing about like eight years ago.

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I was pretty lazy in that time.

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Like I would always like stay at home and stuff and some friends are like, oh, let's

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check out this climbing gym.

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And I just went there like without any expectations and I couldn't really get to the top.

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I was like pretty chubby back then and I was like, yeah.

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And I was like, oh, I guess I want to come back and try to make it to the top like in

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just in any boulder.

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And then I came back and that's how I started like just going and going and I got really

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addicted to it and I would go like every day after school.

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Yeah, like when I was 14, I'm 22 now.

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So like eight years.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Yeah, that's like pretty recent and I think a lot of people can also relate to that kind

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of story casually at least.

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Did you do other sports before that?

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Because like eight years is pretty fast, especially for like getting onto the World Cup circuit.

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Did you like do other sports growing up?

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Or I guess you said you were chubby, so I don't know.

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Yeah, like when I was young, like way younger, like I used to play rugby.

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I was on a rugby team and I also did like one year of gymnastics right after it.

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But then I had to stop both of them because I had a problem on my knees and the doctor

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said I had to.

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Like an injury?

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Yeah, I still don't know exactly what it was.

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Maybe the doctor was wrong because now my knees like I don't have that problem anymore.

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But he was like, yeah, you have to stop all sports.

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And I've always been like really competitive.

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And so when he said it, it was like pretty devastating for me.

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And I feel like that's when I started like getting chubby and I was just sad and that's

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why I would stay home.

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And I guess when I found climbing, it was like that escape and it brought me back that

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feeling of like competing but it was more like against myself.

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So that's what I really liked about the sport and the support that everyone would give you

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when you were on the wall.

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I feel like that's something pretty great about the climbing community.

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And I would say that something else that really brought me closer to the sport was the fact

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that I've always been into like solving puzzles and problems like maths and stuff like that.

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And I feel like solving each boulder problem is always like something that's pretty intricate

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and always like psychs me up.

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And so like the climbing didn't give you any like knee issues, especially with like bouldering.

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There's a lot of like falling and jumping down.

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I feel like some people get issues with their knees.

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I had some problem like on my, I don't know the name exactly in English.

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But I ruptured my ligament twice like in the last year and a half.

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But it has nothing to do with the injury that I had like eight years ago.

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So it was just, it just happened.

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Geez.

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Okay, I was climbing on that now.

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I still like to be honest, it's still hard to deal with it.

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Like doing some drop knees or very like intensive heel hooks can be scary.

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But I've been working it a lot with my physiotherapist and trying to work like mostly my mental game

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about it because heel hooks have always been a strong point for me.

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And I feel like I've lost that kind of like superpower.

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So I'm trying to like get it back.

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Yeah, that's really hard.

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How did you hurt it?

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The first time was like three weeks, one month before Pan American Games that we're going

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to qualify for the Olympics in 2023.

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So it was like a big bummer for me.

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I was like feeling really good for that event.

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And I still like, I was still able to recover in three weeks and I still competed, but I

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like didn't have the results that I was expecting.

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And then I had it again in 2024 in Innsbruck.

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So like it was around August last year.

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And I was just like doing a lot of training and I feel maybe it was just like overusing

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it and I did like a okay heel hook and it just popped.

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But it was like different ligaments.

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So the first time was doing a drop knee, the second time was doing a heel hook.

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Yeah, I feel like it must be hard to like mentally get over that.

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I feel like recently I know a couple of people who also hurt their knees like doing drop

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knees or like hard heel hooks.

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And yeah, any like tips for how to get over the mental side of doing like a scary heel

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hook or hard heel hook or something like that after the injury?

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Yeah, I feel like something that helped me was like I was getting inspiration from other

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people that I also knew that injured themselves.

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So I feel like I also tried to like share a bit of my injury and like my rehab process

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because I feel like having these stories to base yourself upon really help you like just

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put your head down and say like okay, I'm going to work again, I'll be back soon and

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this is gonna make me stronger.

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And I gotta say that like the times that I felt like I've had like the biggest like mental

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switches or biggest gains in my climbing were actually when I injured myself because that's

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when I had like enough time at home to like reflect about my training, what I'm doing

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right, what I'm doing wrong and really like try to make it like to a better path and work

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on other things that I normally can't.

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So like I struggle as well with like finger strength, this is something that is hard for

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me like small crimps and both times that I injured my knee were like periods where I

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could really work on my finger strength.

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So in the end of those periods, I was feeling way stronger.

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So I think that injuries like of course they're really bad and not ideal for like a competition

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year, but if you like try to deal them in the best way possible, I'm sure that you can

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always take like positive outcomes.

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Yeah, I've heard that a lot that you can kind of like use an injury as a motivator to improve

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other areas of your climbing.

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Have you had any injuries?

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I actually, shoulders are the main thing but it's really hard to climb without using your

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shoulders at all.

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So yeah, honestly with shoulders, I don't really know how to continue training with

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the shoulder issue.

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Maybe some slabs.

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Yeah, yeah, slabs.

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But even then there's like some weird pressing stuff that was really hard to deal with.

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Yeah, it never got like fully like ruptured or anything.

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So at least there's that.

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But yeah, I feel like shoulders is a tough one.

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I feel like, yeah, fingers and shoulders, those are hard.

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Actually haven't had a finger injury though, knocking on wood.

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Yeah, fingers are the worst.

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Yeah, have you had a finger injury?

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I've never had like a major finger injury, like I've never fully ruptured a pulley, but

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I've had like minor ones that last for so many months.

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They're like pretty annoying.

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Yeah, surprisingly, I feel like based on the athletes I've talked to, there's actually

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very few injuries, like finger injuries.

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And maybe that's like why they're great World Cup climbers, because they haven't had to

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take time off to deal with a finger injury.

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But yeah, going back to what you're saying about starting climbing fairly recently compared

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to other climbers in like the senior World Cup circuit, what do you feel like you focused

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on to get good so fast, especially kind of starting from like zero?

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Yeah, so I think what really boosted my career here in Brazil was the fact that I went to

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Australia to an exchange program when I was in second year of high school.

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So when I was like 16 and I lived there for a year.

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And here in Brazil, like we struggle with the fact that the importation taxes to bring

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holds to Brazil are really expensive.

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And so the gyms here, we mostly have like national hold that are getting really good.

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Like recently we have some brands that are like standing out and stuff.

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But back in the day when I started, it was hard to have like exposure to like cheetah

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flat hold.

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We still barely have them here.

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And also like movement wise, we didn't have like coordination or slabs and stuff like

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that.

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So I feel like going to Australia really like opened up my eyes and I was like learning

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a whole new like climbing world in 2019.

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And I feel like when I came back, I had this advantage over like some other athletes that

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were maybe stronger to like have learned so much like technique.

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And that's what I feel like I've done in the last like World Cup years as well.

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I was just trying to become like a better technical climber.

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Like I really focused on slabs and coordination like really trying to understand how my body

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moves on the wall.

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And I feel like now like in the last year, I feel like I've like got to a point where

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I'm like okay that's good but now I need to start focusing more on my power.

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So right now like my focus is 100% on getting stronger fingers to be able to like really

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be in that semi-finals level.

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Yeah, what are like the holds that you were talking about earlier?

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Are there any like Brazilian hold brands that we might know of or is it have you never seen

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them outside of Brazil?

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Yeah, so it's just expanding right now.

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We have a brand called Crux and they're like dominating the market here like nationally

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right now and they just started selling holds like to the US.

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I think they're going to Europe now which is pretty cool to see and because we're having

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exciting news, we're having a World Cup here.

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Yeah.

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They are also gonna be a part of it.

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They were able to get like a spot in the IFSC recognized holds.

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So I think you guys will all see some Crux holds in the World Cup.

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Okay, I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

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I'm excited to see some different holds.

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That'll be interesting.

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I wonder if I've seen them before.

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I think they were in the there were a few in the last Pan Am games we had just like

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last year in November.

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Okay, I might recognize them if I see them again.

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And so what did you move to Australia for?

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It was just like a school exchange program or?

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My parents always thought it was good to do it in a year outside of Brazil.

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So like gain experience like life experience and my sister she lives in Australia and so

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it was pretty easy to I lived with her.

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So yeah, that was a really nice thing as well.

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She's like 15 years older than me.

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Whoa.

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She was almost like a mom for me.

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Yeah, wow.

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When we were there.

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There's difference.

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Yeah, and yeah, and it was in fact great.

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And I also went there back in 2023.

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I was back in Australia for more training because I thought it was a pretty great place

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to train and I had like the opportunity to stay in my sister's house.

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It was like cheaper than going to Europe.

00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,760
Yeah, for sure.

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Does she also climb or no?

00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:01,040
No, she actually used to be a professional ballet dancer.

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She danced for Bolshoi.

00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,600
I don't know if you know it.

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It's like a Russian company.

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It's pretty big.

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Okay, nice.

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Yeah.

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Have you been to Australia?

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No, I've never never been to the Southern Hemisphere.

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It's a little far.

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Yeah, I guess.

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Yeah, Brazil is also in the South.

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Yeah, no, it's just it's really far.

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Like I'm kind of surprised about how far it is because I've like looked into like flights

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to like South America or like Australia and it's always way further than I expected to

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be.

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And then I and then I back out.

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But I do I do want to visit at some point.

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Yeah, you should.

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But it is pretty far.

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Like going from here to Australia, it's normally at least two 12 hour flights.

00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:52,600
Yeah, exactly.

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Two days traveling.

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Like once it gets around like the 20 hours of traveling, I kind of cap out there.

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But one day I really should.

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Did you get coaching there too?

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Or was it just getting like whole practice with different holds?

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I was mostly like just so psyched on having like crazy different boulders.

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Yeah, so I would like mostly just climb until I had no skin left every single day and try

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like all the climbs.

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But I did have like a coach back here in Brazil and we would always like talk over the phone,

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see how it's going.

00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,680
So it was nice to have also some guidance out there.

00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:40,080
Yeah, so then getting into your World Cup experience, you fairly recently just had your

00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,720
best World Cup bouldering result in Prague.

00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,660
I think you came in 35th.

00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:49,080
So definitely on the way to making semis.

00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,080
So congrats on that.

00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,960
That must be really exciting.

00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,280
What felt different about that World Cup for you?

00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:01,520
About that one in specific, it was right after my knee injury last year as well.

00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,980
It was like three weeks, maybe four after my knee injury.

00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:08,200
And I was in Innsbruck in that time.

00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,040
And I was like, I decided to stay in Innsbruck.

00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,380
And I also skipped copper, which was lead.

00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:18,640
And I had like this one month to just recover, get stronger.

00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,180
And I was so focused on it.

00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:26,320
And I feel like that really helped me getting stronger, getting really fit.

00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:32,280
And being in Innsbruck, you're always surrounded by so many strong climbers that I was able

00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:38,600
to maybe start already getting into the World Cup environment before the World Cup.

00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,400
So I feel like that helped me.

00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:46,060
Every day I was seeing someone pushing the limits of what I thought it was possible.

00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:51,800
And I had like really hard blocks every day to train on.

00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,640
And I feel like Prague was also an experiment.

00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:59,280
Like I'm coming back from an injury, so I have no high expectations.

00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,840
But at the same time, I know I'm feeling strong.

00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,240
And the round also suited me.

00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,280
So I feel like it was like a combo of all those things.

00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:19,840
And yeah, I think that was also the second best result we had like nationally for Brazil.

00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:20,840
Nice.

00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,600
So I was pretty psyched on it.

00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,880
How was your knee feeling at that time?

00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,640
I competed with a knee brace.

00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,280
I don't know if that's the name.

00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,280
Oh, wow.

00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,280
Really?

00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:31,280
Okay.

00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,280
Yeah.

00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:37,360
We had to ask for like a special like require to be able to use it.

00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:41,040
So with it, I was feeling pretty confident.

00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:48,560
Luckily, I didn't have to do any extraneous heel hooks on my left leg.

00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,760
So it ended up being fine.

00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,800
It was just a bit unfortunate because one of the boulders, you had to like do a double

00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:02,320
jump into a pinch like for the top and it was pretty high up and kind of sideways.

00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:09,440
And the first time I got to it, I like fell like super bad, falling like twisting.

00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:16,000
And that got a bit into my mind and I was like in the mats thinking like, I know I can

00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:22,440
send this, but I don't know if I want to risk my knee right now because I had pen amps coming

00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,600
up.

00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,560
And so I decided to like not try the boulder again.

00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,080
And maybe if I did, I would have been in semis.

00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,080
Oh, wow.

00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,800
Well, there's still there's next times.

00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,560
There's lots of workups coming up.

00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,320
The knee brace, was it like still a hard brace or was it just like some like does it actually

00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:50,120
keep your knee in place or is it kind of just like that mental like awareness of your knee?

00:19:50,120 --> 00:20:00,080
It's like a sock, but it has like two hard plastic things on the sides that also move

00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,680
on the center of the knee.

00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,600
So they like stabilize when you fall.

00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,360
So it like gives you a bit, they work kind of as ligament.

00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,640
So it just makes your knee stable when you're not fully stable yet.

00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:15,640
Yeah.

00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,760
I mean, impressive to get that result with a knee brace on.

00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:26,080
What do you feel like you need to focus more on in order to make semis like this season?

00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:32,280
I feel like I've been on a good path right now, like looking up my results from the last

00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,360
like I've been on the circuit for three years, I think.

00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,320
And first World Cup, I was like lost place.

00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:40,320
Sure.

00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:41,840
Understand.

00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,360
And I've been building up.

00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:47,720
So I feel like this 35th place also built up my confidence a lot.

00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:57,480
It's hard to be in South America and not having like not having like hard blocks to train

00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:05,560
on and seeing like strong people doing impossible things every day and still believing that

00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:06,600
we can do it.

00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,720
I feel like in South America, we need to start believing more in ourselves like all athletes

00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,440
because of course we have less resources.

00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,580
We don't have the structure or the time of the sport being developed in the country for

00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:24,040
so long.

00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,320
But I feel like we have fight in ourselves.

00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,760
We have the fight to do it.

00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,600
And I feel like I gained technique in the last few years as I said, and now I feel like

00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,180
I just need a bit more power.

00:21:39,180 --> 00:21:45,080
So that's what I'm working on right now, getting more fit, stronger, stronger fingers.

00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,600
And I think I can do it.

00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:52,920
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned that it's like hard for you to get difficult enough sets

00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,960
in the gym and that there's not as many other like strong climbers to, I guess, motivate

00:21:58,960 --> 00:21:59,960
you.

00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:05,600
I definitely understand like the need to like see someone doing something better than you

00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:12,620
to like get the psych up and get that like competitive mindset going.

00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:16,680
Have you considered living abroad for more practice?

00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,400
I had for sure.

00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,640
There's a few factors like it's pretty expensive for us like the dollar right now is like six

00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,320
to one.

00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,480
And it's like I always use like this example.

00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,640
I think it's a good example to measure things like a climbing shoe here for us like a Scarpa

00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,040
shoe like a Drago for example that is what I compete on.

00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:50,160
Costs a thousand and three hundred reais for us when you convert it and that's like the

00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,680
same as the minimum wage here in Brazil.

00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:59,340
So like a climbing shoe costs like same or more than the minimum wage someone gets paid

00:22:59,340 --> 00:23:00,920
here for a month.

00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,760
So it's like pretty expensive like the gear and that's why also the holds are so expensive

00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,600
for the gyms.

00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:15,520
But I got to say that it's been a really good few years like the gyms here are growing so

00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,420
much like the development in our country is like beautiful to see right now.

00:23:20,420 --> 00:23:26,760
And the Federation just built us a very, very good training center and that's where we hosted

00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:34,360
like South American Championships and that's where we will be hosting the World Cup.

00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:39,040
So I feel like we're getting there and with the World Cup as well we're gonna get like

00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,040
more holds to train on.

00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:49,160
And also something that really inspired me last year was my friend from Chile, Benjamin

00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,160
Vargas.

00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,240
I don't know if you've heard of him.

00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,720
He was the first South American to make STEMIs in a bouldering World Cup and he did it last

00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,000
year in Salt Lake.

00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,400
So I was like so psyched for him and I feel like that was also like a boost that like,

00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,000
yeah, let's do it like the South Americans can do it.

00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,000
Bang Ha, he just did it so we can all do it too.

00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,000
Yeah.

00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:22,480
So then how do you get like World Cup level difficulty practice at your home gym?

00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:33,560
To be honest, we don't get like blocks normally on the gym sets which is like understandable.

00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,960
Like the level here is not that high to have like and we don't have as much resources to

00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,560
like do it on the gym sets.

00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:49,360
So we normally just like create boulders on top of the other boulders like mixing holds

00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:55,760
and we have like a training area, a little training area now that the gym I train on.

00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,960
It's like really, really nice to build a small space where we could like have like a spray

00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:07,120
wall and a slab wall and we can like we're free there to set whatever we want.

00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,540
We have a lot of holds there.

00:25:09,540 --> 00:25:14,680
So now we're using that little training area but of course it's like hard to compare with

00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,160
like the French team that have like three, four training centers and all the holds are

00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,800
in Europe, everything is there but yeah it's a hard comparison to make.

00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,800
Yeah.

00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:33,040
So it's kind of up to you to build hard climbs for yourself on a spray wall.

00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,040
Yeah.

00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:39,760
And we're like fortunate enough that the federation helps us travel because they know that we

00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,720
need to train on that structure at least for a few periods of the year.

00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,040
So our federation really helps sending us like to Europe to training.

00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,160
Like I said I was in Innsbruck for a month when I injured my knee.

00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,480
I was there training.

00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,180
Every time we go to Salt Lake for the World Cups we often try to stay at least like two

00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:04,440
weeks before and then two weeks after to get some training done too and that's how we kind

00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,400
of like deal with it.

00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,400
Yeah.

00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,560
I'm sure that really does help a lot.

00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:15,520
I think something interesting that you mentioned is that you do get a stipend for being an

00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:20,320
athlete whereas a lot of climbers from even like bigger climbing federations don't get

00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:28,000
that kind of support and I guess they also like help like fund your stays in other countries

00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,040
for like training before and after World Cups.

00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,680
I guess how does that like funding work in Brazil because it seems like it's really nice

00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,000
that they're putting a lot of money into the sport.

00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:47,480
Yeah so since it became an Olympic sport we're now like the federation is now like attached

00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:54,360
I don't know the word exactly like with the Olympic committee and so every Olympic sport

00:26:54,360 --> 00:27:01,360
gets like a funding from the Olympic committee per year and that funding has to be distributed

00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:11,200
in like different areas and so they're able to like use some of that funding to like explain

00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,600
that okay so we don't have as much structure here yet and those training programs are really

00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:23,720
essential to get our athletes to the level they need to and so they're able to explain

00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:29,120
it and that's how we can do the training camps but I'm still like so happy they're able to

00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:34,680
do it because as you said like I know that it's a pretty rare thing to have the federation

00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,520
paying for the athletes to train outside.

00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Yeah and then in terms of like the like the athlete stipend you get is that your main

00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,280
source of income or do you also do like other like coaching on the side or anything like

00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:50,280
that?

00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:57,760
Yeah so I do some settings here in the gyms or commercial sets and I also get money from

00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:04,640
the government like for being an athlete right now for having like South American and Pan

00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,000
American results you get international it's like a salary that you get for being in for

00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,640
having international results as an athlete.

00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,760
You get that income from the government and then I also have it from the federation and

00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,180
from like one or two private sponsors.

00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:29,220
You mentioned that you do like some setting also for some income.

00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:33,840
Do you feel like the setting helps with your climbing or does it kind of just tire you

00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,900
out in a different way?

00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:39,080
It's for sure a bit of both.

00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:46,200
I always do get tired from setting and that affects a bit my training because it's like

00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:53,400
it's hard work but at the same time it's like money that's pretty important to me so I can't

00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,640
like not do it and I do feel that it helps me getting in the mind of the root setters

00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,720
when I'm also in a competition.

00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,640
I feel like it helps me know what they expect from the athletes and what they're trying

00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,760
to trick us into thinking.

00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,400
What kind of stuff do you like to set?

00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:19,440
I really love slabs, like I feel like that's my strong suit in my climbing as well and

00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,800
I also really enjoy like feet coordination and coordination in general.

00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:31,120
So what I like to set here in Brazil, it's normally new school stuff because that's the

00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,720
thing we have the least here.

00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,240
Normally the gym sets are very like rock climbing based because rock climbing here is like a

00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:46,280
big thing and we have really good rock here so I always try to bring like new stuff, movements

00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,940
that I've seen in world cups like in an easier version and it's like it's always taken as

00:29:52,940 --> 00:29:59,280
well sometimes in a bad way but then it ends up being positive because I think it's something

00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:06,240
new so people are like oh we don't like this jumpy jumpy stuff but in the end they always

00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,320
learn something new and then they start enjoying it so I guess it's nice to have it in the

00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:12,320
gym.

00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,840
It's interesting that you get that feedback but I'm glad you're able to change their minds

00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,360
about it I guess.

00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:26,200
So yeah like I said earlier unfortunately I don't know too much about like climbing

00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,200
in South America or Brazil and also Brazil is like a massive country.

00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,440
Is there like a main climbing city for indoor like outdoor climbing?

00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Yeah so I would say the cities that stand out the most like in terms of like number

00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:52,960
of climbing gyms and where most of the strong athletes are is São Paulo which is where

00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,680
I live, where I train.

00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,640
We have Fabrica here.

00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,360
It's a gym that's been growing a lot.

00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,280
It's owned by Felipe Camargo.

00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:09,320
He's like a red bull athlete, pretty like strong rock climber.

00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
He really pushed the limits for us as well.

00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:18,840
He's climbed like 9B outdoors and V15.

00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:25,880
And he owns this gym that has three locations here in São Paulo and then we also have Belo

00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,280
Horizonte which is in Minas Gerais.

00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:36,600
They also have a lot of gyms but our training center is in a city called Curitiba.

00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,840
That's where the World Cup will be and they also have like three or four pretty good gyms

00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:41,840
there.

00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,360
So I would say these are the three main like cities for climbing here.

00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,600
Are those cities like also good for outdoor climbing or you mentioned that there's good

00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,480
rock somewhere?

00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,800
That's something that is really, really, really big in Brazil and I wish more people would

00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:05,100
come here to climb outdoors because our gym like scene is still developing a lot.

00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:11,080
It's still growing but rock climbing wise, we have like so many nice crags.

00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,540
There's like two places.

00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:18,400
One is called Milho Verde and the other one is called Igatu.

00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:24,240
They were both like featured in a North Face video with Daniel Woods and Juliana called

00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,240
Night Moves.

00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,160
I don't know if you've watched it.

00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,040
I haven't watched that one but…

00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,760
They talked like how it's like as big as Rocklands like both places.

00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:42,860
It's like endless rock, endless like possibilities but there's just like not enough climbers

00:32:42,860 --> 00:32:45,960
out here to open to make the first ascent.

00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:51,640
So, we have like these incredible places that just need like strong climbers to come out

00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,200
here and send everything.

00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:59,440
I haven't seen the video but I'll have to link it in the description and take a look.

00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,600
Do you have any interest in like developing these areas in the future?

00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,600
Yeah, for sure.

00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:11,680
Like rock climbing is also how I fell even more in love with the sport and it's something

00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:18,600
that we even do here sometimes to get that like try hard feeling as we don't have it

00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,120
like as much in the gyms.

00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:25,560
I often like to go try like hard projects outdoor to get me feeling like strong on my

00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,080
fingers and getting that try hard in my mind before a comp.

00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:35,000
So I feel like that's a strategy we often use here as well.

00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,760
And right now what I think as well it's like I don't do as many rock trips as I would

00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,120
like to but I always think like well the rocks they're always gonna be there, they're not

00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:52,920
going anywhere whereas the comps like my climbing career as like a comp athlete it's gonna end

00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,520
like at some point and I'm gonna be way stronger by then and the rocks are still gonna be there.

00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:05,760
So like I'm just like not yet doing those climbing trips outdoors as much.

00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,880
Yeah, you mentioned that like outdoor rock climbing also kind of helps you get in the

00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,640
try hard mentality for comps.

00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,000
Do you feel like it does?

00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,840
I guess I wonder how much it translates because there's sort of like a different mentality

00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:26,920
outside compared to comps where like outside like you said it's always gonna be there whereas

00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,800
at comps you really only get a few attempts.

00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,320
So do you kind of try to like bring that comp mindset to outdoor climbing or does it just

00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,320
like help in different ways?

00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:46,440
For sure the comp mindset helped me a few times outdoors where I was like not doing

00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:52,040
a climb and then I just like centered out and I was like okay imagine I'm like in a

00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,920
competition this is the last boulder like for me to get a gold and just try to enter

00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,200
in that mentality and it made me send the boulder.

00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:08,120
So I feel like both ways translate well and also when I'm outdoors I feel like those are

00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:16,920
the moments that I really feel connected like with how I started climbing and really connected

00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:24,880
with myself just being out in nature you know touching some rocks it's like it really brings

00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,600
me back to like my core and I feel like that helps me just train harder for the next few

00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:37,840
weeks and also just like how the rock is formed is like you can't just change a few screws

00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,920
and the hold is gonna twist a little bit or you can make the boulder easier.

00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:49,720
It just is as it is so either try it really hard or you're not gonna send it and I feel

00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:54,400
like that's what I get a lot from the rocks when I go outside.

00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,680
I don't know if it makes this.

00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,520
I'm sure some people would relate to it yeah.

00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:04,400
I have like a very backwards thinking where I just I don't really like climbing outside

00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:10,680
and I don't feel connected to nature so it like it never translates for me but I know

00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:17,560
for a lot of people it does so I think other people will relate to that better.

00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:23,240
Just going back to like the bouldering world cup that's gonna take place in Curitiba do

00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:28,600
you think you're gonna feel like a hometown advantage or are you gonna feel like pressure

00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,600
that you have to perform?

00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,720
I feel like pressure will come.

00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:40,760
Right now I'm not feeling it but I know for a fact that everyone that climbs here in Brazil

00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,720
is going to Curitiba to watch the world cup.

00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:49,200
It's gonna be like a big thing like having the first world cup in South America so for

00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,560
sure it's gonna be a great event.

00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:59,440
I really hope like all the athletes come and compete and I feel like I will have for sure

00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,480
like support from the crowd and that's gonna like like me up so much.

00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,920
It has been psyching me up this year.

00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:13,320
I'm like I'm feeling really focused on training and having the world cup in my mind is really

00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:19,600
helping me like train hard every day so I feel like not even just on the comp but also

00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:25,560
like in this pre-season moment it's been helping me to know that I'm gonna have a world cup

00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,560
in my country.

00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,000
How like is the climbing community big?

00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,400
Like you think it'll be like a huge showing people are gonna be loud the crowd's gonna

00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:34,640
be like crazy?

00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:45,000
I feel like Brazilian people they're all very like loud like happy and festive so I feel

00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,760
like it's gonna be very nice.

00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,200
I don't think it would be like as many people as like an Innsbruck World Cup or like Chamonix

00:37:54,200 --> 00:38:00,720
just because it's been there for so many years but I really hope we make like a good event

00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,680
and that it happens again in the next years.

00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,560
Yeah well I hope it'll be a good time.

00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,400
How does like crowd noise influence you?

00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,640
Because I've only been to like a couple world cups in person.

00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:22,520
I went to one in China where it was like pretty quiet so the yeah the atmosphere was like

00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:28,080
kind of weird feeling I think and I went to like the Salt Lake one where it was a lot

00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,800
louder but I haven't been to like any European ones.

00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,920
Yeah how does crowd noise affect your performance?

00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:46,680
Normally like of course I hear something here and there like very very it's not that often

00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:52,800
because normally when I go into the meds I fully tunnel vision and like every time we

00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,560
do like athletes presentation before starting like a boulder final for example I feel like

00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:05,120
I normally don't see anyone it's just like a black wall in front of me I'm just looking

00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:11,480
at the clock and really really focus on boulders I feel like that's something that I can do

00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:17,480
pretty well like 100% focusing on the climbs.

00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:24,720
Of course when I send them I really like to cheer on and look back and see everyone but

00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:27,680
coming into the next boulder is like same feeling.

00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,680
Going back into mindset I feel like a few times you mentioned that you don't think you're

00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:39,760
the strongest climber so you focus more on mindset and routines and body movement so

00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:45,680
I guess like first of all why don't you think you're very strong?

00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,340
Please excuse this brief intermission but if you're interested in deleted scenes from

00:39:49,340 --> 00:39:54,980
this episode where we talk about what grade he climbs at B-Pump and also my competition

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Back to the show!

00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:35,960
I think it has something to do with like starting to climb very chubby and always being like

00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:42,360
bigger than the other guys that has always like affected me mentally like it's a bit

00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:48,800
of a struggle like always feeling fat and stuff like that and that makes me not feel

00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,560
like as strong.

00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:57,720
But I also do believe that like just in training when we go training together for example me

00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:05,400
and my other teammates, Felipe and Samuka for example, they're like insanely strong

00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:12,100
like we've trained like with other teams and the coaches everyone always says like how

00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:15,800
crazy strong they are.

00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,440
They really really stand out like when it comes to power.

00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:27,200
And so like every time we spray SESH or just kill Ter SESH, I always get destroyed by them

00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,360
like they're really really strong.

00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,920
But then in comps like in the last few years, I've won nationals and South American Cups

00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:44,840
and stuff and that kept like that kept me thinking like that maybe that's why.

00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,640
So like how I always like focused.

00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,520
I knew that I wasn't the strongest in the sessions and that I couldn't beat them on

00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,040
spray walls and stuff like that.

00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,400
So I was like I went the other way.

00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:02,360
I was like okay if I can't beat them right now on this point like if I can't beat them

00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:08,480
on a spray wall, if I can't be stronger, then I'm gonna be like that I'm gonna be the strongest

00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,520
in everything else.

00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:16,880
And I feel like that's when I started reading a lot of books about meditation and how to

00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,480
like have a stronger mindset.

00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,760
There's like a really good books that I've read about flow stage and I feel like that

00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,800
really helped me.

00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:36,960
And I feel like that came as well from having I wouldn't call it a therapist but I've worked

00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:46,000
when I was younger with this woman called Esther and she would teach me how to like

00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:52,920
at a very young age when I was eight or nine just exercises on how to like manipulate my

00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:58,680
own brain in ways that would help me like strive in different areas of my life.

00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:06,040
So like different exercises to like overcome fear or to be more focused in school and I

00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:11,880
feel like all of those exercises translated really well to my climbing like competition

00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,160
mindset.

00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:19,280
There's like I have like maybe four or five exercises that I always do before answering

00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:28,760
a boulder round and I don't see many athletes doing like a very specific mindset routine

00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,880
before entering the rounds.

00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:32,360
What are those exercises?

00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,720
Yeah, so there's one where I do like it's like some pretty basic stuff that look kind

00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:42,360
of dumb but really work for me.

00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,800
One of them is like just putting my fingers in front of me like this and then opening

00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:55,120
up all the way to like my sides and that helps me like being focused on what I'm doing but

00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:00,920
still being aware of the whole boulder like and for example, before visualization of the

00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,440
climbs, I always like to do that because I'm like reading exactly what I need to do but

00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:10,620
that helps me like as I have like a panoramic view, it helps me come back and remember the

00:44:10,620 --> 00:44:17,280
whole climb, remember maybe a put hold that I didn't see, stuff like that.

00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:23,360
Another thing that I like to do is like I close my fist and I close my eyes and I remember

00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:30,480
like all the good moments I've had in comps like amazing tops or buzzer beaters or like

00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:36,960
remembering myself on a podium that I was really psyched on and I do that like over

00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:43,840
a few weeks before a comp and every time I close my fist and so my brain like associates

00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,840
those feelings with closing my fist and so right before going into the round, I don't

00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:55,320
have to like think of all those things and really close my eyes and remember all those

00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,320
things.

00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,440
I just close my fist with the intention of closing my fist and I already like I feel

00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:06,300
like this fire coming inside of me of all those moments that I was memorizing before

00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:07,880
going into the round.

00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,200
So that's also something that like really really helps me.

00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:17,680
I really feel like so much more energized before going into the round when I do this

00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:24,160
and yeah and a few other things that I feel like helped me a lot came from Esther.

00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:31,160
Yeah, I love like remembering I don't know just like great climbing moments but I can't

00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,600
always remember them off the top of my head so yeah maybe I need to try that and get the

00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,600
psych up.

00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:44,040
Yeah, are there any like I guess you mentioned she was kind of like a therapist to you.

00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:51,120
Are there any like non-climbing related things you learned that you'd want to share?

00:45:51,120 --> 00:46:00,520
It was a very long time ago so it's like hard to remember like specific things that we learned

00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:08,280
together that helped me but I can just say like for sure I became a better person and

00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,200
just learned so much about myself.

00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,920
I still do like we still have appointments here and there when I feel like I need to

00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:24,640
follow like something in my climbing that's not going well and yeah I feel like trying

00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:32,040
to always look not only like when you're struggling to like get over like a lip in your climbing

00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:37,460
like when you're stuck in a grade and you want to push yourself, I feel like often it's

00:46:37,460 --> 00:46:43,840
not just getting stronger it's like there's so many areas that you can look on before

00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,360
just going like I need to do more pull-ups.

00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:54,440
So yeah I feel like that's what helped me like doing more mental strategies and working

00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,920
more on technique, focusing more on my diet, how I'm sleeping that for sure everything

00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,760
affects your performance.

00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:09,740
Yeah I feel like a lot of people often just feel like they should just get strong instead

00:47:09,740 --> 00:47:15,280
of working on like mindset or movement or anything like that first.

00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,920
I guess are there any like strength metrics you want to get out there like maybe if people

00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,200
hear that they're around a similar like strength level to you they'll feel inspired to like

00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,160
work on their mindset or movement.

00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:38,240
Yeah so like something funny that I've always knew was like I still I can barely do a one

00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:42,840
arm pull-up right now like it's something that I struggle on.

00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:49,880
Bout levers are pretty hard too and it's like I didn't do a one arm pull-up before being

00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:56,800
able to like win nationals or send like my first V13 outdoors.

00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:03,160
So it's like I feel like you can gain so much just from learning movement, learning how

00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:10,200
to move better on the wall, how to use your hips, your legs before you need to do those

00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,200
things.

00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:17,240
It helps and of course that's like what I need to work on right now and I do get inspired

00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:23,760
by people who can do like crazy things on like the Q2 board.

00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,440
But yeah I feel like it's not everything.

00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,520
Okay well yeah that's what everyone should hear.

00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,840
You should be able to climb at least V13 even if you can't do a one arm pull-up.

00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,280
I think that's the story to get out there.

00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:42,520
And one last thing about like the strength stuff.

00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:47,280
I might cut this out but it's just like it keeps sticking in my mind.

00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,600
I feel like I know someone who had like a very similar story to you where they said

00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:59,720
that they like started climbing when they were like chubbier and he says like once a

00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:06,640
fat kid always a fat kid so he just like always feels like that even though like he's quite

00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,040
strong now he's like climbed for a long time.

00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,480
Do you relate to that?

00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,320
Like do you still feel like that?

00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,360
Oh yeah 100%.

00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,040
Oh my gosh.

00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:23,280
That's like something that I always have in the back of my mind and people always tell

00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,400
me like stop thinking that it doesn't make sense.

00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:34,440
I wouldn't say it's like a I wouldn't say I have like eating disorders or anything which

00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:43,800
I know is like common in the climbing scene to have but it does like annoy me from time

00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,800
to time.

00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,560
Yeah I guess like how does that manifest for you?

00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,880
Like how does it show up or like affect you mentally?

00:49:51,880 --> 00:50:00,160
It does get me sometimes like just feeling more like down without feeling the side to

00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:06,060
train more and then sometimes feeling like I'm not in the shape I wanted to makes me

00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:13,440
when I eat more like as a counter effect I don't feel like it's a disorder or anything

00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,960
it just like makes me a bit more down sometimes.

00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:26,840
Makes me a bit anxious and from that sometimes I want to eat more and then after eating more

00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:34,200
I'm like oh well now I'm just like fat again you know but it's like it's something that

00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:41,920
I feel like a lot of people struggle with and I've always tried to have like a good

00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,280
relationship with food.

00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,280
I love eating.

00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:52,100
Is there do you have any like I guess like tips or things that worked for you in helping

00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:55,320
you get out of that kind of negative mindset?

00:50:55,320 --> 00:51:02,280
Yeah I feel like it often comes like oh like I can't do this move just because I'm chubby

00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:11,160
or that's the reason why I'm not sending this time or you know not like feeling strong but

00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:15,800
then in the end of the day when I look back like that wasn't what stopped me from like

00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:21,080
getting the results that I did and those were the times when I was feeling good with myself

00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:29,560
and not necessarily I was like one kilo heavier or one kilogram like lighter so it's a lot

00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:36,680
about like your mind and I feel like we look at ourselves in the mirror always like differently

00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,880
from what we may actually be.

00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:45,100
Well yeah I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that as well whether they're like trying

00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:51,440
to be full-on athletes or just like climbing casually so yeah hopefully a lot of people

00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,000
can relate to that.

00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,040
Okay I think those were all the questions I had so moving on to some of the discord

00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,320
and Instagram questions that came through.

00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,080
The first one from Instagram was top three slab tips.

00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:17,920
I feel like the first one is a classic but it's like trusting.

00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:24,600
I did some training with Roman like the Yanez coach when I was in I would have been to Slovenia

00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:31,680
training with them and one thing that Roman would always tell me was if you're if you

00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:38,520
feel like you need to try hard on your upper body like if you're trying to solve it with

00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,520
strength you're doing it wrong.

00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:48,640
Like of course it's not like major rule you always have to follow but he was basically

00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:54,920
saying like you can always like change your foot a little bit trust more your legs your

00:52:54,920 --> 00:53:02,120
hips and that really helped me develop my slab game.

00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:10,680
Second thing I would say is you have to be kind of like not scared to die like you have

00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:20,640
to be like willing to you know like how do you say like hit your chin or hit your nose

00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:27,200
on the wall because it's like if you're scared of doing the move and you don't fully commit

00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,440
you're gonna slip and on slab if you don't trust your foot you're gonna slip and so if

00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:38,760
you're willing to like okay I don't even care if I hit my shin on the wall that and trust

00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,480
your foot 100% that's when you stick in movement.

00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:52,640
You've got to be fearless on slabs and I would say that the third point it's like calm you

00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:58,960
have to be really calm sometimes in comps even in the South American comp we had like

00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:10,000
two months ago just me and Beng Ha sent this really really hard slab and it was so long

00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:16,800
that you only had two attempts on it like it was so long and it had no handholds just

00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:22,320
like foot walking and most people couldn't send it because after their first try they

00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:27,040
saw there was like only two minutes on the clock and started trying to rush it and that's

00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,320
when you start to go around so if you want to send this slab you got to really really

00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,960
breathe and do like everything feeling that you're in a stable position.

00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,040
Do you do any like breath work on the wall or off the wall as part of like your mindset

00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,040
work?

00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:46,640
I don't do a lot of breath work I wish I did more I definitely want to dig more into it

00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,760
but when I'm on the wall I always try to like on the slabs try to keep my heart rate low

00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,680
I feel like I start getting anxious it's so hard it's so much harder to send slabs with

00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,680
a higher heartbeat.

00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:04,860
I'm assuming like your shins are all beat up then you've got a lot of scabs and cuts

00:55:04,860 --> 00:55:07,720
and bruises on your legs.

00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:12,840
Yeah I feel like I think I still have like one in my shin right here from like two days

00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:13,840
ago.

00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,480
Oh yeah yeah oh your chin I was talking about your legs and your shins.

00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,920
Oh sorry yeah my shins too but my chin as well.

00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:30,400
Okay yeah yeah it's tough in the shower when you just break something open.

00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:37,600
I found a lot of help from using like waterproof bandages those are my that's my slab tip.

00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,280
Have you tried waterproof bandages?

00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:41,280
I haven't.

00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,520
Oh it makes a huge difference.

00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,320
Makes you more confident too?

00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,320
It's just like after you like have the cut you don't have to like deal with the pain

00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,320
in the shower of like the water hitting your like fresh cut.

00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:01,520
Yeah and does that make you like oh I'm gonna commit to this move and even if I hurt myself

00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,000
I just put them on and it will be fine.

00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:10,720
I guess a little it's like oh I know that it'll hurt like when I do it but then afterwards

00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:14,280
when I shower it won't be too bad.

00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,120
Yeah that's my slab tip.

00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,800
Okay next question what are your thoughts on the new rules that limit participation

00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,980
per country from a small climbing country perspective?

00:56:25,980 --> 00:56:32,400
Do you feel like limiting the participation of developed teams helps smaller nations?

00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,040
That's a pretty hard one to answer.

00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:45,000
I feel like in the World Cup scene you do one the best of the best but at the same time

00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:54,180
you also do one representative from other countries so it's hard to say like having

00:56:54,180 --> 00:57:01,480
only two spots for like Brazil and even Australia or like all the other South American countries

00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:08,080
and then having like 15 spots for our Japanese team when they are like hosting an event it

00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:16,480
feels a bit weird to have that big of a difference but they did earn those spots so it's hard

00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:17,680
to say.

00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:24,160
I feel like it should be like a three people it should be like a three-person quota for

00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:29,920
a country because most countries do it like top three internationals are liking the overall

00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,280
result like if you get a medal then you're on the team and you get to compete.

00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:40,600
I feel like that's how a lot of the countries do it and then having to like mix up two out

00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:47,880
of the three makes it pretty hard and when you're trying to get when you only get more

00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:53,480
spots if you're in the top 40 but then you only have two people competing and these people

00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:59,960
still have to take turns to go it's also a bit like hard to compare and also other countries

00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:05,040
in South America they won't have like we're pretty fortunate in here in Brazil to be able

00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:09,160
to go to like two or three World Cups a year but there are some countries who can only

00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:15,440
go to one and then it makes it impossible for them going to only one to be in the top

00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:22,680
40 whereas Japan has resources to send athletes to every single World Cup every year so at

00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:30,120
the same time that I understand that these countries have like a stronger climbing community

00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:35,680
like stronger athletes they also have so many more resources to be doing that.

00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:41,920
So I guess going forward do you feel like the participation changes will I guess like

00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:47,640
help the smaller countries make progress in their climbing?

00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,240
I don't think it's pretty hard to answer.

00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:57,600
I'm like I'm not sure if it's gonna help them because that's not gonna make them have more

00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:04,200
resources but I feel like it's gonna make it more fair and more equal to everyone having

00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:11,680
a bit less spots but what I feel like they could have done is like maybe still leave

00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:17,080
it up to maybe 10 spots for the countries who have a lot of athletes and then just up

00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:23,640
the number for countries who have less quota to three or four people because these countries

00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:29,000
won't even be able to send like three or four people but if there is an event then they

00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:34,680
can at least like choose whether or not they want to take three athletes or not.

00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:35,680
Yeah makes sense.

00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,680
What do you think?

00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:43,720
I actually really need to read up on the new quota changes.

00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,240
I don't actually know it off the top of my head.

00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,920
I've just seen like some discussion about it.

00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:54,120
I guess like for the people who are listening who maybe don't know about it do you want

00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,840
to give like a brief overview?

00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:03,600
Yeah so we've had in the past like three years when I started competing the minimum quota

01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:14,000
was three athletes per country and five for road champs I think and then recently it changed

01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:21,400
to only two athletes per country for road cups and three in road champs and for bigger

01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:28,360
countries like if you have anyone in the top 40 you gain an extra spot and people in the

01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,800
top 10 they gain a spot for themselves.

01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:36,840
So it's like if you get a spot between 20 and 40 it's a spot for the country.

01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:41,440
Doesn't necessarily need to be the person who earned that spot and if it's a top 10

01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:48,280
person then that person is already guaranteed on the circuit and so that's why Japan had

01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,920
so many people competing per event because they would always have like two athletes for

01:00:52,920 --> 01:01:02,160
the quota plus six or seven for the top 40 plus like two for being host country sometimes.

01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:08,080
So that's why the number would escalate so much and in order to reduce that such a big

01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:13,400
difference this year they limited the quota to even if you have people on the top 40 I

01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,800
think the limit is going to be five if I'm not wrong.

01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:23,920
Yeah I wasn't going to form any opinions on it until after I saw how it would play out

01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:31,800
in the season so yeah I think I'll have to wait and see what it feels like.

01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:38,560
Yeah it's like we also as an athlete I also want to be competing against the best of the

01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:45,920
best in the world so at the same time it's like we want to see all the Japanese crushing

01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:51,000
out there you know so it's a hard decision I feel like it wasn't an easy decision for

01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,160
the IFC to make.

01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:58,360
I guess yeah I kind of wondered how athletes felt this year when a lot of like the top

01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,880
athletes weren't competing in World Cups due to like preparing for the Olympics or maybe

01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,320
resting after the Olympics.

01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,760
I kind of always wondered how that felt because maybe they didn't really feel like they were

01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,080
competing against the best of the best anymore.

01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:20,640
So yeah I'm kind of wondering if maybe people will have a similar feeling given like the

01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:22,880
quota restrictions.

01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:24,960
Yeah I understand that.

01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:28,440
That's my cop out answer.

01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:34,760
Okay so last question what are the outdoor climbing projects in Brazil that you really

01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,120
want to get done?

01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:44,800
So we have Fortaleza that is like a V15 well maybe well now it got downgraded to V14 and

01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,040
recent years.

01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:51,920
It's the most iconic boulder here Felipe Camargo did the first attempt.

01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:57,800
That's definitely a boulder that I would love to send the next few years.

01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:04,000
Right now I'm focused on maybe getting a few first attempts done in São Vento do Sapucaí

01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,440
which is close to here and there's a V13 there that I really want to get my hands on it's

01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,840
called Setemtaitaus.

01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:21,600
And something that I didn't say earlier in the interview or posted it publicly is that

01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,320
I probably won't be competing in LEAD anymore.

01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,760
I'm gonna just focus on bouldering.

01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:38,000
I felt like having to mix both in the year like already feeling a bit behind from the

01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:42,800
other guys like wanting to be in semis and having to compete in both disciplines makes

01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,240
it way harder.

01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,760
So this year I made the tough decision of like of course I love LEAD climbing and I

01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:54,160
didn't want to stop competing for it but I feel like if I want to excel in one of them

01:03:54,160 --> 01:04:01,240
I needed to pick one and that also talks with how like the next Olympics is gonna be maybe

01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:07,540
they are gonna split it up so I'm really like trying to take an advantage before it actually

01:04:07,540 --> 01:04:08,540
announced.

01:04:08,540 --> 01:04:09,920
Yeah that totally makes sense.

01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:17,000
Do you think one day you'll want to I guess either add LEAD back in or maybe just like

01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,720
totally switch to LEAD?

01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:22,920
Yeah for sure.

01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:32,040
I do prefer LEAD climbing outdoors so when I'm climbing outdoors just like the feeling

01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:37,480
you get when you send a hard route it's like you just have to put so much more effort into

01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:45,080
it and it's like such a bigger fight sending a route than it is sending a boulder at least

01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:53,900
for me like the feeling I get is so much more fulfilling and for sure like I have so many

01:04:53,900 --> 01:05:00,400
routes that I want to take down in the next few years and what I thought was like with

01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:07,120
bouldering I am gonna get like so much stronger that when I go back into LEAD I just need

01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:12,720
to like get my endurance back get the like lead flow back going and I'm gonna be much

01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:18,000
stronger to send all the routes that I want to send right now and whereas if I was just

01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,560
focused in LEAD I feel like it would be harder to transition into like hard bouldering outdoors.

01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:25,120
Okay awesome.

01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:30,800
Well I think that is all the questions I had is there any like last words you want to get

01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,840
out there or words of wisdom you want to put out into the world?

01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:41,560
Well I guess I wanted to say to if there's any South American climbers who want to become

01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:47,640
athletes or who are already athletes it's like believe in yourselves because we can

01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:54,400
also do it we just need more belief in our hearts and to everyone else I just wanted

01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:59,840
to say like if you can come to Brazil come watch the World Cup it's gonna be a big event

01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:07,120
for us I'm sure it's gonna be a great event I'm so psyched and yeah come watch come visit

01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:12,040
Brazil if you guys want to just text me if you want to go rock climbing or just want

01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:17,520
to tour around I can give some tips I'm open for you guys to text.

01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:22,240
Okay super exciting yeah I can't wait for the World Cup in Brazil that'll be really

01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:27,160
exciting okay awesome I want to let people know where they can find you.

01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:35,960
I feel like the easiest would be my Instagram it's at Rodrigo dot Hanada with an H and yeah

01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:40,400
just direct me there and we can talk.

01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:44,560
Cool awesome I will leave the link in the description.

01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,880
Okay great well that's everything I had thank you so much for joining me today and it was

01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:50,400
amazing to talk to you.

01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:55,480
Yeah thank you so much for the invite it was really great talking to you Ginny and I hope

01:06:55,480 --> 01:07:02,400
climbing grows more and there's more podcasts like yours it was a great great experience

01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,400
thank you.

01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:08,080
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast don't forget to like and subscribe

01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:13,720
if you enjoyed otherwise you are a super fake climber if you're listening on a podcasting

01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:18,560
platform I'd appreciate if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:31,520
on the free competition climbing discord linked in the description thanks again for listening.