41: Antonin Pharel, IFSC Graphics Operator

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.819
the non -climber audience is becoming the target

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for these live streams so bouldering in itself

00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:14.939
has a problem yeah like it's 50 meters away like

00:00:14.939 --> 00:00:18.019
you are working and people are having fun and

00:00:18.019 --> 00:00:22.620
there's some dude dying there in his sleep after

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a live i know what was wrong and what what was

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that yeah what Yeah, what was not good? I know

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it right away. Welcome to another episode of

00:00:32.969 --> 00:00:35.570
the That's Not Real Climbing Podcast. I'm your

00:00:35.570 --> 00:00:37.429
host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my

00:00:37.429 --> 00:00:40.409
guest for today, Antonin Pharel. Antonin is

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the graphics operator for the IFSC. I know there's

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been a lot of complaints about World Cup broadcasts

00:00:45.750 --> 00:00:48.130
lately, so in this episode, I gathered all your

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hardest -hitting questions over on the internet's

00:00:50.670 --> 00:00:54.100
biggest hater platform, Reddit. In this episode,

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we'll learn about why the IFSC chooses to use

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local production teams instead of their own production

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team and the difficulties that come with that,

00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.719
why graphics don't show up sometimes, and we'll

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hear about his thoughts on why the bouldering

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format is inherently broken for watching on TV.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Antonin. Real

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quick, I'm excited to announce my new sponsor

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Back to the show. How are you doing today? You

00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:11.069
have like a bit of a break between competitions.

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Actually, not really. I've come back yesterday

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from Bali for the World Cup in Bali. Before that,

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I was in Ke Xiao and Wu Jiang for the two World

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Cups. So that was quite a long tour in Asia,

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like three weeks. And I have two days home. So

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I have arrived yesterday. And then I'm taking

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the car again because this weekend there are

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the French Elite Championships that we are covering

00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:47.870
also. So I'm going there this weekend. And Monday,

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we take off to Brazil for the World Cup in Curitiba.

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So that's a good start of the season, like five

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weeks, five competitions. In five weekends. And

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all your flight and travel is covered for, right?

00:03:05.530 --> 00:03:12.789
Yeah, yeah, yes. So I have immobilized day, travel

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days, and yeah, everything is covered. So I don't

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have to pay for anything myself. And yeah, I'm

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paid to work, obviously. Yeah, it's a lot of

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not being at home. Do you manage to get much

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climbing in during the competition season? It

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depends on the events. It depends on the places.

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Obviously, it's difficult to keep, to maintain

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a regular rhythm of climbing. During the off

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-season in winter, usually I try to go climb

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mostly indoor because I don't have much time.

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Still, but like two or three times a week. But

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during the season, I've tried to fit in some

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little climbing time. Yeah, whenever we can.

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Sometimes it's only on the warm -up and the isolation

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zone. Some warm -up areas are very good for that.

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Some others are a bit less. But yeah, with people

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there, we try to set up some boulders. I mean,

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like what we did in Quechua with you. Yeah, did

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you feel like that's considered a pretty good

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isolation zone, right? Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty

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good one, yes. It's not on, like, I think athletes

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going to Wuzhang the week after, they were complaining

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a bit because in Wuzhang, for example, it's a

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very, very long wall. It's just a big traverse,

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but quite short. I don't think it's more than

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two meters high, for example, and it's... not

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not overhanging so it's always the same kind

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of feature slabby vertical but slightly overhanging

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maybe but even though the holds are quite good

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you can't really do a lot of things on this kind

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of warm -up wall so yeah i know that the athletes

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are complaining a little bit about this wall

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and yeah i've Actually, we didn't climb there.

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What's the best ISO warm -up zone that you've

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been to or seen? Crachow is quite nice, actually.

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Yeah, it's one of the best, I would say. The

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one in Bali last week was quite nice also. So

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they had put it in a tent. We didn't climb there,

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but from what I saw, it was... Pretty nice. Maybe

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a bit smaller than Keishao, but it was in a tent

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with air conditioning. That's helpful. Yeah,

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that's very helpful. All the tents have air conditioning.

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Yeah, but yes, this one was good. Let me think.

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The one in Chamonix is quite nice also. Also,

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we don't climb much there because it's directly

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in the Ensar. So it's the gymnasium, not the

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gymnasium, the climbing gym for the local club

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there in Chamonix. So it's quite nice. And it's

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where there are some Romain Desgrange. I don't

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know if you know him. It's like a French athlete.

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And he's now a coach. And it's basically where

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he trained, etc. quite a good good space with

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a lot of bouldering and so yeah quite quite good

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uh warm -up area um yeah i mean it varies from

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place to place but yeah and of course in salt

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lake now there is a tc which is quite a good

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warm -up zone also. Okay, so getting into a bit

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of what you do for the IFSC. I guess most people

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probably don't know too much about you or who

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you might be. So what do you do for the IFSC

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and how did you get involved? So yeah, probably

00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:27.360
not a lot of people know me. I'm the graphic

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operator in the IFSC broadcast team. I'm the

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one displaying the names, the results, all kinds

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of graphics that goes on top of the live stream.

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So during the live, I'm displaying that and etc.

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And I'm also in some events in charge of setting

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up cameras, mostly on the walls. I'm the one

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putting up the cameras on the walls. It's my

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task, but I can help. other team members to do

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some other things. So yes, I have varied tasks,

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but these are my main two, like graphic operator

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and PTZ camera. So PTZ, it's the cameras on the

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wall. It's pan, tilt, and zoom. It's remote cameras

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that are controlled directly in the control room.

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And yes, there is a dedicated operator that manages

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them. All right. What cameras on the walls, like

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actually on the walls? Or do you mean just like

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filming like close -ups of the wall? They are

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fixed on the wall. So yeah, you can see them

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on the stream. Sometimes, yeah, in most of the

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time in bouldering, you can see some. masts how

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do you say like sticks sticking out of the top

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of the walls and there are some cameras hanging

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there so on bouldering we put at least three

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maybe four cameras so we get shots of the tops

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and they are mostly used to get some close shots

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not from the back from behind Because most of

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the shots in climbing are from behind, right?

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So the big advantage of these cameras directly

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fixed on the wall is that it allows us to get

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some closer shots and some shots of the faces

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and from above. So the counterpart is that usually

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the walls are shaking a little bit, so the cameras

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are quite shaky. Sometimes. It depends on the

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walls. Again, from structure to structure, it

00:09:57.139 --> 00:10:03.679
can vary a lot. But yeah, we installed them on

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bouldering and in lead also. So in lead, we usually

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display three. So one at the top, we get the

00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:18.080
top shot for both routes. And two on the sides,

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on the head wall. Just to get a broader overview

00:10:20.970 --> 00:10:25.029
of the rest of the production team at the IFSC,

00:10:25.210 --> 00:10:27.850
because you just mainly do the graphics, how

00:10:27.850 --> 00:10:29.889
does the rest of the production team work? It

00:10:29.889 --> 00:10:35.350
depends a bit. The season, so there are how many

00:10:35.350 --> 00:10:37.769
events? There are 12 events on a season, something

00:10:37.769 --> 00:10:42.289
like that. It starts from April to October. We

00:10:42.289 --> 00:10:47.009
have a broadcast team linked to the IFSC. So

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we are directly hired by the IFSC. And sometimes

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we do the full production. Sometimes we are only

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on support because it's local productions handling

00:11:03.590 --> 00:11:10.070
the whole live stream. And yes. So for example,

00:11:11.529 --> 00:11:16.129
In China, it's local production. So it was a

00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:20.009
Chinese crew doing, installing all the cameras,

00:11:20.230 --> 00:11:23.250
doing the full live stream, etc. Me, I'm still

00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:29.350
there to display the graphics. And we are, in

00:11:29.350 --> 00:11:31.809
cases like that, we are there on support. It

00:11:31.809 --> 00:11:36.720
means that we make sure that the... standards

00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:41.799
required for the IFSC live streams are followed.

00:11:42.100 --> 00:11:47.700
So the live streams are well sent to the TVs

00:11:47.700 --> 00:11:54.139
that have the rights for them. And we make sure

00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:58.679
that the rundown, the running order is well followed.

00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:03.679
So it's, for example... Yeah, we have a rundown.

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So at that time, the live stream starts. At this

00:12:07.700 --> 00:12:10.659
time, 30 seconds later, we need to display the

00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:14.000
start list, etc. So we have a full schedule to

00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.840
follow and we make sure that this schedule is

00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:23.120
well followed by the local crews. And yes, we

00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:26.279
try to give some advices on how to film climbing

00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.950
and things like that. So that's... For the cases

00:12:29.950 --> 00:12:32.809
where we don't do the full production, we are

00:12:32.809 --> 00:12:36.049
there on support. And then there are some events

00:12:36.049 --> 00:12:39.549
where we are hired to do the full production.

00:12:39.809 --> 00:12:43.570
So like in Bali last week, for example. So in

00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:48.029
that case, our team is a bit broader. So we are

00:12:48.029 --> 00:12:54.980
six plus some cameramen. So we have dedicated

00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:58.379
roles. So me, I'm graphic operator. There is

00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:03.519
one that is a director. There is a sound engineer,

00:13:03.740 --> 00:13:09.279
vision engineer, etc. But yeah, it's still a

00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.440
reduced team compared to what you can see in...

00:13:14.740 --> 00:13:19.379
in yeah in other local tv productions like it's

00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:22.460
we arrive with a lot of boxes we set up the thing

00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:27.000
but if you look at local productions they arrive

00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.379
with a big truck with way more people and things

00:13:30.379 --> 00:13:34.539
like that so and so why in like kachow for example

00:13:34.539 --> 00:13:37.639
was it decided to only do support instead of

00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.700
have a full production yourself it's decided

00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:47.110
by the IFSC and the organizer so how it works

00:13:47.110 --> 00:13:54.169
is like organizers proposes to host a world cup

00:13:54.169 --> 00:13:58.070
and I don't know exactly how that works because

00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:03.330
I'm not involved in this in this deals etc but

00:14:03.330 --> 00:14:05.970
from what I understand is like the organizers

00:14:05.970 --> 00:14:11.929
is proposing to to have a local production crew

00:14:11.929 --> 00:14:16.809
who is going to realize the live stream and then

00:14:16.809 --> 00:14:20.350
they will get some TV rights for national TVs,

00:14:20.549 --> 00:14:24.049
for example, or for other production. I don't

00:14:24.049 --> 00:14:28.710
know. So that is the deal. So the organizers

00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:34.149
propose these services and they get the TV rights

00:14:34.149 --> 00:14:39.110
for their local channels. That's the case in

00:14:39.110 --> 00:14:46.070
quite a lot of events now. Before 2020, we were

00:14:46.070 --> 00:14:49.730
still doing most of the productions. But now

00:14:49.730 --> 00:14:57.330
in Slovenia, it's local TV. In the World Championships,

00:14:57.610 --> 00:15:02.750
it's local TV now in Seoul. It will be KBS doing

00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:08.399
that. So in China now, after COVID, it's local

00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.100
crews. But even before, the crew from the Olympics,

00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:19.139
for example, it was a Chinese production. And

00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:23.659
there were training in Chongqing 2019, I think,

00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:27.000
already. So this time already, it was not us

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.159
doing the production. But before that, until

00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:33.639
Wuzhong 2019, we were doing the production in

00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.019
China also. So you're working towards doing fewer

00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.720
productions? Yes, we do fewer productions. I

00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.759
mean, this year, actually, we do quite a lot

00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.259
compared to last year. Because there are new

00:15:48.259 --> 00:15:54.399
venues and there are some organizers don't find

00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.620
local producers. So instead, we do the production.

00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:04.230
So in Brazil, for example, it will be us. Usually

00:16:04.230 --> 00:16:09.509
when it's a new event, we do the first production.

00:16:09.809 --> 00:16:19.110
So like in Prague, it was 2023. The first edition

00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:22.269
in Prague, it was us doing the production. And

00:16:22.269 --> 00:16:26.590
last year, 2024, it was a local TV crew doing

00:16:26.590 --> 00:16:30.490
it. And it will be again a local team also doing

00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:33.409
the production this year also. so like the goal

00:16:33.409 --> 00:16:36.289
is to eventually have a local production do it

00:16:36.289 --> 00:16:39.309
because i guess for consistency's sake it seems

00:16:39.309 --> 00:16:43.070
like people expect that it would usually be an

00:16:43.070 --> 00:16:47.429
ifsc production the big plus for to have a local

00:16:47.429 --> 00:16:51.190
production is like they get the tv rights right

00:16:51.190 --> 00:16:58.210
so it means that um the live streams is broadcast

00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:02.799
on the national tv so why do organizers want

00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.299
to organize the World Cup. It's so they have

00:17:05.299 --> 00:17:09.839
local spectators, local audience, and the fact

00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.359
that they also want to have a local producer

00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.519
is so they can have the TV rights for their audience.

00:17:16.900 --> 00:17:20.779
So it's just to present climbing in their country,

00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:27.039
basically. So that's understandable. After, to

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.319
have consistency from one... event to the next

00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.720
for sure it's a bit more complicated if we change

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:40.059
crews from one event to the next but yeah that's

00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:43.000
why we are there on support it's to try to give

00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.059
guidelines and to to make sure first that the

00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:51.779
live streams follow the required standards and

00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:56.740
we are there to try to give advice also how to

00:17:56.740 --> 00:18:01.990
film climbing Sometimes they are followed, sometimes

00:18:01.990 --> 00:18:11.049
they do a bit how they want. But yeah, usually

00:18:11.049 --> 00:18:14.369
it goes quite well after one live or two. If

00:18:14.369 --> 00:18:18.569
you look at the first live streams, there is

00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:23.309
an improvement from, let's say, semifinals to

00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:27.670
finals. In finals, usually it's quite better

00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:32.029
quality. While the first live streams, it's still

00:18:32.029 --> 00:18:39.750
a moment of trying and errors and trials. And

00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:44.690
from one year to the next, the productions improve

00:18:44.690 --> 00:18:48.950
also. So if they do every year the same production,

00:18:49.309 --> 00:18:54.410
they improve from one year to the next. Yeah,

00:18:54.410 --> 00:18:57.210
obviously there's a lot of like... online discourse

00:18:57.210 --> 00:19:01.549
about um how the production runs um what what

00:19:01.549 --> 00:19:05.349
the broadcast looks like um i gathered some questions

00:19:05.349 --> 00:19:07.910
from reddit since i think that's where they have

00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:11.690
the most strongest opinions about uh about the

00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:15.029
broadcast and so like what guidelines specifically

00:19:15.029 --> 00:19:18.410
are given to ensure consistent product and also

00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:21.509
the big one being uh like the split screen issue

00:19:21.509 --> 00:19:27.420
that we saw in kajal yeah so um Of course, we

00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:29.920
are here on support. So our first task is to

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.440
make sure that the live stream is well delivered

00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:39.200
to the people paying for it. So deals with the

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.160
FSC and usually the local crews are handling

00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.980
themselves the signal going for their local TV.

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.640
That's a main task. Make sure that there is a

00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:56.259
live stream happening. Then the second... part

00:19:56.259 --> 00:20:01.339
of our job is to make sure that to ensure a quality

00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:04.839
and of the live stream and consistency from one

00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.960
event to the next and here we give some advice

00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:13.940
on how to film the sport um but we are sometimes

00:20:13.940 --> 00:20:22.410
often uh facing some issues uh like the The crews

00:20:22.410 --> 00:20:25.289
we are talking to, sometimes they are well known

00:20:25.289 --> 00:20:29.289
in the sport. They are filming some sport at

00:20:29.289 --> 00:20:32.710
the Olympics, etc. And as we arrive, we are only

00:20:32.710 --> 00:20:38.470
three people filming climbing. So us giving advice

00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:44.109
to these big crews of 40 plus people. Yeah, it's

00:20:44.109 --> 00:20:49.329
sometimes we are not heard that well. Sometimes

00:20:49.329 --> 00:20:56.210
we have also some communication issues. So like

00:20:56.210 --> 00:21:00.569
in Keishao, for example, we had an interpreter.

00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:09.329
Yes. Who was not speaking that well English either.

00:21:09.890 --> 00:21:15.430
So it's always a bit... And also she was not...

00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:21.930
So she was hired by the local crew, but she was

00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:27.130
not working in media. So it was the first time

00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.410
working with them. So she didn't necessarily

00:21:29.410 --> 00:21:36.390
know the relevant words, like the specific vocabulary

00:21:36.390 --> 00:21:41.769
for what a white shot is, what format of video

00:21:41.769 --> 00:21:48.849
this is, etc. So it's always... sometimes a constant

00:21:48.849 --> 00:21:51.650
struggle on trying to be understood, trying to

00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:56.309
understand what is needed, etc. So that's a lot

00:21:56.309 --> 00:22:02.109
of meetings back and forth, for example. So that's

00:22:02.109 --> 00:22:07.009
another issue we are facing. And to make sure

00:22:07.009 --> 00:22:10.309
that there is a live and that the basic quality

00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:14.710
of the live is covered, we need to make sure

00:22:14.710 --> 00:22:18.670
that... first climbing is filmed and then we

00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:22.089
can introduce a split screen and then yeah so

00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:26.450
it's one step at a time to make sure that yeah

00:22:26.450 --> 00:22:29.950
we can't some yeah in case how i we could not

00:22:29.950 --> 00:22:33.210
cover everything in one go for the semi -finals

00:22:33.210 --> 00:22:37.230
and finals for the women for example but we could

00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:41.730
make it work uh for the men's the day after and

00:22:41.730 --> 00:22:46.910
that's how we improve And after, in Nubujang,

00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:50.410
the week after, it was the same crew, which was

00:22:50.410 --> 00:22:53.509
nice because we could start. We already knew

00:22:53.509 --> 00:22:55.930
each other. We knew how to communicate. We knew,

00:22:56.049 --> 00:23:01.089
yeah, they already knew the rundown also a little

00:23:01.089 --> 00:23:05.990
bit. So it was already easier to make sure that

00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:08.849
the live stream was following some guidelines

00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:11.839
like that. Another thing people on Reddit asked

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:14.099
about was kind of about like the cinematic shots,

00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.960
like foot chips, hold closeups. Is that a direction

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.000
from the IFSC or do the local crews do that themselves?

00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:26.180
In the control room, there is a director and

00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:31.220
sometimes he's switching the cameras himself.

00:23:31.339 --> 00:23:35.400
Sometimes he's behind and saying to his operator

00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.680
to, okay, camera one, camera two, et cetera.

00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:45.269
That's up to the TV crew to decide how much beauty

00:23:45.269 --> 00:23:50.750
shots. The direction is up to the TV crew. We

00:23:50.750 --> 00:23:57.190
can give some guidelines again. The main guideline

00:23:57.190 --> 00:24:01.670
is make sure that the cameraman keeps enough

00:24:01.670 --> 00:24:06.710
space above the climber so we have at least two,

00:24:06.789 --> 00:24:11.059
three... holds above so you can see where the

00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:13.720
climber is going it's it's not evident for people

00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:16.039
not knowing the sport sometimes they center the

00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:21.240
climber and so you see uh holds below no you

00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:25.660
need to to leave some space above um it's not

00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:30.420
it's just simple things like that and the thing

00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:35.809
is like is a tv crew is in the end the one the

00:24:35.809 --> 00:24:38.309
director is in the end the one taking the decisions

00:24:38.309 --> 00:24:42.650
of how the live stream looks like. So if there

00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:50.029
is a director very happy with his setup, with

00:24:50.029 --> 00:24:56.170
big lenses, with cameras being able to zoom a

00:24:56.170 --> 00:25:02.769
lot on small holes and maybe some crane doing

00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:06.279
some... Very nice moves along the walls and things

00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:12.720
like that. Of course, he will want to use these

00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:18.720
tools. They are quite expensive. There is a nice

00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:25.700
show, light show. It looks very nice, but maybe

00:25:25.700 --> 00:25:32.839
it doesn't show climbing as it should be. just

00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:37.279
because you don't follow the action as you would

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.839
want to follow the action if you are a climber

00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:45.960
yourself. So in my opinion, close shots like

00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.579
that, they should be maybe two seconds on air,

00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:54.880
three seconds at max. If you have an action,

00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:58.000
like if the climber is moving, you want to show

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.539
the hold. two, three seconds. If you go more

00:26:01.539 --> 00:26:06.640
than that, of course, you lose something. But

00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:10.539
again, that's difficult to say to some directors.

00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:16.299
And of course, you could keep that for replays.

00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:19.140
And usually, these directors, they use replay

00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:23.859
a lot just because they have a lot more shots,

00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:28.720
a lot more cameras. we do for example so they

00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:33.500
have a lot of mean at their disposition and the

00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:37.240
replays are usually quite long which also cuts

00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.819
the action so the next athletes needs to wait

00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:45.000
to enter for example and you have longer live

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:48.359
streams for example so that's also something

00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:53.460
that could be smoothened a bit but yeah again

00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:57.109
it's The last decision is by the director in

00:26:57.109 --> 00:26:59.069
the end. Yeah, I wonder if you could just tell

00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:03.269
them climbers will go and grab their chalk a

00:27:03.269 --> 00:27:07.109
lot, so that's a good time to show replays or

00:27:07.109 --> 00:27:10.529
close -ups. Yeah, I mean, there are some directors

00:27:10.529 --> 00:27:14.690
who put some replays even during the four minutes

00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:18.450
in the boulder finals. While people are resting,

00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:22.450
they put some replays, etc. There are some crews

00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:28.180
that have... like two or three replay operators

00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:33.140
preparing replays all the time. So of course,

00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:36.279
they have the possibility to put some replays

00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.660
at any time during the show. And of course, it

00:27:38.660 --> 00:27:43.220
removes these little dead times that can cut

00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:47.160
a bit the rhythm in the final, for example. But

00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:50.519
yeah, it's a question of balance. Sometimes I

00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:54.240
feel like... When TV productions have a lot of

00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:59.420
cameras, etc., it's too much. And the thing is

00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:01.819
also you need to consider that there are different

00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:06.980
kinds of audiences for climbing. Most, like we

00:28:06.980 --> 00:28:09.920
are climbers, so we know what we like to see.

00:28:10.019 --> 00:28:17.059
We usually like to see a wide shot and you see

00:28:17.059 --> 00:28:20.890
the full. the full climb and then you see the

00:28:20.890 --> 00:28:23.910
full movement of the climber. And you don't necessarily

00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:27.789
need some closer shots because instinctively,

00:28:27.890 --> 00:28:31.930
you know what the holes look like, but just by

00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:35.309
the look of it, you know how hard they are. And

00:28:35.309 --> 00:28:41.210
there is a less experienced audience who don't

00:28:41.210 --> 00:28:46.799
necessarily have these reflexes. of understanding

00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.819
why the climber is doing that at this moment

00:28:49.819 --> 00:28:53.859
and they are more interested by beauty shots

00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:58.160
and also they need some to see their holes much

00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:04.180
closer and to maybe understand what what are

00:29:04.180 --> 00:29:07.039
the holes like because you see if you have an

00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:09.660
experienced eye maybe you see the crimp okay

00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:16.349
it's very small but maybe for a non -climber

00:29:16.349 --> 00:29:20.549
audience you need to wow to stay more than three

00:29:20.549 --> 00:29:22.630
seconds on the small holds and oh is he holding

00:29:22.630 --> 00:29:25.309
me like that that makes sense i like seeing the

00:29:25.309 --> 00:29:30.710
small ones too yeah it's so and the thing is

00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:36.769
like the idea to have tv crews local tv crews

00:29:36.769 --> 00:29:42.130
and um the live streams being displayed broadcast

00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:46.329
on local channels it's just to reach a non -climber

00:29:46.329 --> 00:29:49.890
audience the non -climber audience is kind of

00:29:49.890 --> 00:29:54.809
becoming the target for these live streams so

00:29:54.809 --> 00:29:57.150
that the thing like the the climber audience

00:29:57.150 --> 00:30:02.269
is vocal about it it's maybe it's just it's still

00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:05.569
a minority of the the watchers i don't know if

00:30:05.569 --> 00:30:07.509
you've had experience with like other sports

00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:11.220
productions um do you know if they go like a

00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:13.859
similar route where they use local teams every

00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:17.200
time and there's not as much consistency because

00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:20.279
i guess my only other experience with like watching

00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:24.359
other sports broadcasts is maybe like broadcasts

00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.400
that are more just within the u .s so i don't

00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.779
think travel is as difficult but for more like

00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:34.609
global productions i guess maybe like F1 or something

00:30:34.609 --> 00:30:36.490
like that I've never watched it so I don't actually

00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:39.029
know if they're consistent or like have consistent

00:30:39.029 --> 00:30:42.410
angles or anything like that do you have any

00:30:42.410 --> 00:30:44.470
like comparisons on what other TV productions

00:30:44.470 --> 00:30:50.690
do so my team is working with the FSC since

00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:54.890
something like that so that's and me I've arrived

00:30:54.890 --> 00:31:00.990
at the FSC in 2018 and so I'm covering most of

00:31:00.990 --> 00:31:06.210
the World Cup since then And in my team, I'm

00:31:06.210 --> 00:31:11.390
almost the only climber. So, yeah, but they are

00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:13.809
quite experienced, especially the director is

00:31:13.809 --> 00:31:17.869
very good. And he understands the sport quite

00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:22.490
well. He's quite invested in it. And I think

00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:27.490
he is very good at just covering the sport, in

00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:31.759
my opinion. So it's not a problem that he's not

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:37.279
a climber. On the other hand, my team is also

00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.079
covering some other sports, especially ski. They

00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.579
are coming from the ski. Before that, they were

00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:49.319
doing ski events. And yeah, I don't remember

00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:51.700
exactly what they are doing. And from this year,

00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:57.190
they also cover the ski mountaineering. So they

00:31:57.190 --> 00:32:00.069
do the production for that also. So they have

00:32:00.069 --> 00:32:04.049
some experience in other sports. Me personally,

00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:09.670
I don't. So I can't really compare from one production

00:32:09.670 --> 00:32:12.329
to one sport to the next, how the productions

00:32:12.329 --> 00:32:18.529
are doing. I know that in Schemo, they do most

00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:21.789
of the productions also. I suppose that from

00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:27.230
one, from big... For big sports like F1, Formula

00:32:27.230 --> 00:32:32.369
1, I think it's local crews maybe. I don't know.

00:32:32.809 --> 00:32:38.529
Okay. But Formula 1 is such a big sport that

00:32:38.529 --> 00:32:42.329
for sure all these crews, they know how to produce

00:32:42.329 --> 00:32:45.109
it. And that will be the same crews doing that

00:32:45.109 --> 00:32:49.869
every year for many years. Okay. So maybe we

00:32:49.869 --> 00:32:52.720
just have some growing pains. Yeah, it's still

00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.980
growing. It's not like soccer also. I mean, in

00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:59.859
soccer also, it will be different crews depending

00:32:59.859 --> 00:33:05.039
on the stadium. It will never be many trucks

00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.940
moving around Europe, for example, to cover.

00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:10.940
It will be local crews all the time, I think.

00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:15.400
Okay. But it's not a problem because the sport

00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.140
is so well spread that there are some... yeah

00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.819
there is some theory behind it like okay there

00:33:22.819 --> 00:33:26.240
is this and white shot then there you can go

00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:28.720
close shot and things like that it's not like

00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:35.539
climbing has been theorized yet uh to to cover

00:33:35.539 --> 00:33:38.039
it yeah i guess we just kind of need that time

00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.980
for it to be uh to like come up with a consistent

00:33:41.980 --> 00:33:44.579
maybe like a baseline of what it should look

00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:49.099
like yeah i think the One attempt to do that

00:33:49.099 --> 00:33:54.059
was by this director in Austria. So the one who

00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:59.960
is producing the live streams in Innsbruck every

00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:04.740
year for some years now. And also who covered

00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:10.940
the Munich Championships in 2022. I think he

00:34:10.940 --> 00:34:16.829
is quite invested in... pushing the sport on

00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:22.230
how to broadcast it and I think he had it's the

00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:30.730
first attempt to really theorize it on AAA production

00:34:30.730 --> 00:34:35.230
because I can't say that our crew is AAA I mean

00:34:35.230 --> 00:34:39.389
we are six people plus four cameramen so we can't

00:34:39.389 --> 00:34:43.840
pretend to be like the big production that produces

00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:48.360
national TVs every week and we don't have a big

00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.739
truck, et cetera. So we might have some theories,

00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:53.579
et cetera, but... Wait, but what does... Yeah,

00:34:54.219 --> 00:35:03.619
like big production. Okay. Yeah. So I think this

00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:07.400
Austrian director is the first one who really

00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.139
started to really think the sport. and how to

00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:16.840
make it look good on TV. And I think more and

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.920
more producers will do that. I think in the Czech

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.420
producers also in Prague, they are quite interested

00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:31.739
in showing climbing just because maybe, I don't

00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:34.119
know, there is Adam Andra also and he's a national

00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:39.610
legend also. Because of that, because climbing

00:35:39.610 --> 00:35:43.530
is so well spread in Austria, because there is

00:35:43.530 --> 00:35:46.789
Adam Ondra in Czech Republic, and maybe also

00:35:46.789 --> 00:35:49.530
because there is Jamia Garnbret in Slovenia,

00:35:49.550 --> 00:35:53.949
all these producers are interested in the sport

00:35:53.949 --> 00:35:56.849
directly. And because they are doing it over

00:35:56.849 --> 00:36:00.789
and over, year after year, I think in the end

00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:03.329
there will be a quality raising up like that.

00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:07.320
just because the experience is building up. But

00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:13.119
if you do one event a year, of course, you can't

00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:18.860
have... I mean, it takes time. And they are looking

00:36:18.860 --> 00:36:23.340
at what everybody is doing. So when we see them

00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:28.900
and they come to see us, to... to get advice,

00:36:29.059 --> 00:36:32.639
et cetera, we see that they have watched some

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:35.440
other live streams. So, OK, you do it like that.

00:36:35.619 --> 00:36:38.699
So we put these graphics at this time. And so

00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:42.300
they are looking, they are preparing like that

00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:46.039
also. That's good. The most invested ones. Yeah.

00:36:46.539 --> 00:36:49.480
Yeah, you mentioned that there are some challenges

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.039
of filming Climbing for TV and that there are

00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.360
difficulties specifically showing bouldering.

00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.260
Why is that? What makes it difficult? It's inherent

00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:02.579
to bouldering itself, like the format of bouldering.

00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.340
Please excuse this brief intermission, but if

00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:07.019
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00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:54.119
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00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.420
the competition you want to see him or her the

00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:01.920
most time on the on the screen right so in lead

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.320
it's it's it's obvious like the the one who goes

00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:12.019
the highest uh wins the competition so the one

00:38:12.019 --> 00:38:15.019
uh the longest on the wall wins the competition

00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:20.320
The person who falls at three plus, you don't

00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.360
see him or her much. Fine. That's perfect. The

00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:28.039
problem with bouldering is like if you have someone

00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:32.940
who can't start a boulder and can't establish

00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:36.420
the start position and struggles for four minutes

00:38:36.420 --> 00:38:42.300
straight on the mat, it's boring. And then you

00:38:42.300 --> 00:38:45.920
have Janja arriving. And she flashes, she demonstrates

00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.340
how to do every boulders. She's there on the

00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:52.340
mat for like, on the screen, she's two minutes

00:38:52.340 --> 00:38:55.800
on the wall for two hours of live streams. I

00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.260
see. So there is, for bouldering, the shorter

00:39:00.260 --> 00:39:04.539
you are on the wall, the better you do. You are

00:39:04.539 --> 00:39:09.179
probably the winner. And it's not exactly what

00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.179
you see in most of the sports. In most of the

00:39:12.179 --> 00:39:14.820
sports, The winner is the one who has the most

00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:20.239
attention, who gets the most shots, the most

00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:26.480
time on screen, etc. So bouldering in itself

00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:34.500
has a problem. It's not exactly... From a climber

00:39:34.500 --> 00:39:37.539
point of view, in my opinion, it's the most interesting

00:39:37.539 --> 00:39:41.059
to watch just because it's so varied. Like you

00:39:41.059 --> 00:39:45.559
have... You have slabs, you have overhang, you

00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:50.719
have every type of move. Some people complain

00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:54.679
that there are some too weird moves, not enough

00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:59.119
outdoorsy moves, not enough old school moves.

00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.239
But in the end, you have all these moves anyway

00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:07.019
in Boulder, maybe. Sometimes it's not balanced

00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:09.139
enough. Maybe sometimes there is too much of

00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:10.980
this type of move and not enough of the rest.

00:40:11.119 --> 00:40:14.559
But if you compare bouldering to lead, lead is

00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.179
always overhanging. You will never have a slab

00:40:17.179 --> 00:40:21.039
in a lead competition. For example, it happened

00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:25.000
maybe in the 90s in the first competitions and

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.559
people were just finding weird rest positions

00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:33.619
and they were staying on the wall for... 13 minutes

00:40:33.619 --> 00:40:37.199
30 minutes and uh people get yeah because there

00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.599
was no time limit also so oh that's terrible

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.659
yeah exactly so they were climbing up they were

00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.079
climbing down uh checking the moves going down

00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:50.139
and resting forever oh that sucks yeah so that's

00:40:50.139 --> 00:40:54.320
why the walls got much more overhanging and that's

00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:57.699
why the road setters are not setting knee bars

00:40:57.699 --> 00:41:01.579
where people can rest indefinitely and yeah the

00:41:01.579 --> 00:41:04.929
other thing things like that but in bouldering

00:41:04.929 --> 00:41:08.630
from a climber point of view it's quite interesting

00:41:08.630 --> 00:41:12.369
like there is there is all climbing in just four

00:41:12.369 --> 00:41:16.309
boulders not all climbing but you see my point

00:41:16.309 --> 00:41:20.730
so but yeah from a non -climber audience i can

00:41:20.730 --> 00:41:24.690
get it that it's you don't know what is happening

00:41:24.690 --> 00:41:28.980
there is too much things happening The format

00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:31.579
is difficult to explain. The rules are difficult

00:41:31.579 --> 00:41:36.420
to explain. There is attempts to make points

00:41:36.420 --> 00:41:40.619
now. In my opinion, I think we lose a bit the

00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:45.940
thing about attempts. The attempts are less interesting.

00:41:46.099 --> 00:41:50.420
And also, you can't read directly the performance

00:41:50.420 --> 00:41:55.960
of a climber. Before, it was one top, one zone

00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.739
in. that many attempts now with just points you

00:41:59.739 --> 00:42:02.900
don't know exactly the performance just because

00:42:02.900 --> 00:42:06.739
it's points it doesn't translate exactly in how

00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:10.199
many attempts were used so you need to make calculations

00:42:10.199 --> 00:42:14.880
it's a bit yeah so it's it's bouldering is complex

00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.780
it's just because it's about climbing and it's

00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:20.760
climbing is so complex yeah i mean i think the

00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.690
point system will help with understanding I think

00:42:24.690 --> 00:42:26.590
it makes a little bit more clear just because

00:42:26.590 --> 00:42:28.750
then there's like a numerical value that people

00:42:28.750 --> 00:42:32.969
can point to. But yeah, I guess I do see the

00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:36.030
issue with like the star not really getting that

00:42:36.030 --> 00:42:40.369
much screen time. But I mean, it's kind of similar

00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:44.650
in like, I guess it's not that similar, but like

00:42:44.650 --> 00:42:48.269
in speed, the faster climber obviously is spending

00:42:48.269 --> 00:42:51.550
less time. Yeah, but the faster, the winner.

00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:55.599
He's not eliminated until the end. Oh, that's

00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.880
true. That's true. Yeah. So you see him or her

00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:03.820
the whole competition. Okay. And he or she will

00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:06.840
get all the replays. Yeah, I guess I don't know

00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.019
how that would be self -reporting. Yeah, I mean,

00:43:09.019 --> 00:43:12.820
I've thought a little bit about it. The best

00:43:12.820 --> 00:43:17.840
would be to eliminate. the worst people like

00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:23.059
what they do in arco for the uh i don't remember

00:43:23.059 --> 00:43:27.340
the name the rock masters the rock masters yeah

00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:31.719
the problem is like if you eliminate someone

00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.320
uh after the first boulder and this person was

00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:41.119
not good at slab but right very good at yeah

00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:44.550
it's not fair just because And also for the competition,

00:43:44.730 --> 00:43:47.190
it's not fair because what if this person eliminated

00:43:47.190 --> 00:43:50.670
after the first boulder was the only one able

00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:54.050
to do the boulder two, for example, or boulder

00:43:54.050 --> 00:43:58.789
four. So there is this unfairness that is problematic

00:43:58.789 --> 00:44:02.909
if you eliminate people. Yeah, I've seen some

00:44:02.909 --> 00:44:05.750
competition formats of the elimination format

00:44:05.750 --> 00:44:09.409
where you can't go to the next boulder until

00:44:09.409 --> 00:44:13.280
you finish the first boulder. But yeah, that

00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.320
does seem kind of unfair because there are just

00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:19.559
so many bouldering styles. Yeah, I think the

00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:25.099
solution would be to not impose an ordered circuit.

00:44:25.619 --> 00:44:28.820
The best would be, and that could be actually

00:44:28.820 --> 00:44:32.860
quite interesting, you leave the athletes to

00:44:32.860 --> 00:44:35.400
choose in which order they want to climb the

00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:41.400
boulders. there is still an observation of all

00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.880
four boulders. And then in isolation, they decide,

00:44:45.059 --> 00:44:47.659
okay, I want to do boulder two first, boulder

00:44:47.659 --> 00:44:50.400
three, and then blah, blah, blah. So there is

00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.340
some strategy involved. And as a commentator,

00:44:54.380 --> 00:44:57.000
it could be super interesting. Like, okay, we

00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.000
know he starts, like he's better at slab climbing,

00:45:00.099 --> 00:45:02.659
et cetera, but he's going for this one. Maybe

00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:06.349
that's because he... Yeah, I think that could

00:45:06.349 --> 00:45:08.949
be quite interesting. That would be interesting.

00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:11.829
I don't think I've ever seen that in any format.

00:45:12.150 --> 00:45:15.110
It might be kind of hard to feel. And also hard

00:45:15.110 --> 00:45:17.750
because what if two people want to do the same

00:45:17.750 --> 00:45:21.230
one at the same time? Yeah, I mean, you would

00:45:21.230 --> 00:45:24.849
let people climb one by one. There would still

00:45:24.849 --> 00:45:30.010
be only one person on the climb. Of course, with

00:45:30.010 --> 00:45:32.070
the new format, there are two people on the mat.

00:45:34.329 --> 00:45:37.429
Yeah, it would be only one person on the mat.

00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:43.269
And difficult to film? Yes and no. It would be

00:45:43.269 --> 00:45:46.289
an extra difficulty. But anyway, all the cameras

00:45:46.289 --> 00:45:49.750
are placed for the whole final anyway. So the

00:45:49.750 --> 00:45:56.010
only one moving is the mobile camera on the mat.

00:45:56.389 --> 00:46:00.510
But anyway, most of the time, the cameraman is

00:46:00.510 --> 00:46:03.550
placed in front of the... of the door and then

00:46:03.550 --> 00:46:08.130
you will just follow the the athlete and then

00:46:08.130 --> 00:46:10.670
yeah of course the camera will have to adjust

00:46:10.670 --> 00:46:13.190
to focus on this boulder instead of this one

00:46:13.190 --> 00:46:16.190
but that's not a problem that's not a big deal

00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:18.789
it might be hard in terms of graphics because

00:46:18.789 --> 00:46:22.570
then you have to explain like oh this is this

00:46:22.570 --> 00:46:25.800
problem but this person this is this person's

00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.440
like third problem that they're on i don't know

00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.980
i i don't think it's unsolvable either yeah interesting

00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.139
um and i want to go back to something you mentioned

00:46:35.139 --> 00:46:38.039
a little bit earlier how do you balance attracting

00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:40.719
a new audience versus satisfying the existing

00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.019
climbing audience so non -climbers versus climbers

00:46:44.019 --> 00:46:47.239
who are watching i don't think we think that

00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:51.739
much about how to attract a new audience except

00:46:51.739 --> 00:46:57.400
maybe in the graphics how to explain the sport

00:46:57.400 --> 00:46:59.780
better. So that's why points were introduced.

00:47:00.099 --> 00:47:03.219
Now this year, there is a new little graphic

00:47:03.219 --> 00:47:07.780
explaining what the graphics mean. There is its

00:47:07.780 --> 00:47:10.800
own rule thing. So it explains the icons and

00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:16.820
stuff like that. So it's mostly via the graphics,

00:47:17.179 --> 00:47:21.400
I think, that it comes. Also introducing predictions.

00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:26.679
For example, it's been a long running topic.

00:47:27.539 --> 00:47:31.159
So the predictions, it's basically when a boulderer

00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:34.500
enters the mat, what he or she needs to do to

00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.659
reach this rank, for example, on this boulder.

00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.739
So that already you can do quite a lot just with

00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:47.579
the graphics, introducing something so people

00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:52.579
understand what is going on. And I think it has

00:47:52.579 --> 00:47:55.800
come a long way since I've started. Just in the

00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:01.480
lead bar also, it's quite explanatory. Things

00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:05.460
like that. After, in terms of filming itself,

00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:13.960
of course, beauty shots are nice. And that's

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:19.820
usually what TV wants, just because... I don't

00:48:19.820 --> 00:48:24.239
think TV wants a wide shot, a still wide shot

00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:29.739
with just four boulders in the shot and climbers

00:48:29.739 --> 00:48:34.619
going up and down. That would not work for TVs.

00:48:36.699 --> 00:48:43.320
Having too many shots also, switching from small

00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:47.280
holes, narrow shots to, yeah, et cetera, close

00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.130
shots, et cetera. I think we are doing a bit

00:48:51.130 --> 00:48:54.949
too much at the moment, but it might calm down,

00:48:55.050 --> 00:48:59.510
hopefully. Maybe keeping the narrow shots and

00:48:59.510 --> 00:49:02.449
small shots for when the climber is resting,

00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:05.309
for example. So in lead, for example, that would

00:49:05.309 --> 00:49:08.309
be when they are shocking up and they are on

00:49:08.309 --> 00:49:12.389
the same hold for 15 seconds. There you can allow

00:49:12.389 --> 00:49:15.210
yourself to put a narrow shot, a close shot.

00:49:15.900 --> 00:49:18.820
Or you can just put on the close shot for three

00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:23.400
seconds. But yeah, I think to introduce climbing

00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:26.900
to a new audience, wide shots, split screens

00:49:26.900 --> 00:49:31.179
is still the best. And speaking of like graphics,

00:49:31.219 --> 00:49:34.900
since that is kind of your specialty, I think

00:49:34.900 --> 00:49:37.119
on the Reddit post there was some positive feedback

00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.599
on stats showing up in graphics this year. So

00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:44.519
good work on that. But I guess the issue that

00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.940
comes up sometimes is that they often don't show

00:49:46.940 --> 00:49:50.659
up or they lag behind. I think, for example,

00:49:50.780 --> 00:49:54.019
the lead progression in the past couple events.

00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:59.719
Bali or Wujiang would just be kind of slow to

00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:03.539
update. So people are wondering, why are the

00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:08.659
scores rarely shown on screen? And yeah, why

00:50:08.659 --> 00:50:13.559
do graphics lag behind sometimes? Yeah, so the

00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:17.139
new graphics, it's a new graphics solution. It

00:50:17.139 --> 00:50:23.269
has been developed this winter by a new team

00:50:23.269 --> 00:50:26.829
of developers so it's a new it's a new production

00:50:26.829 --> 00:50:33.389
doing them i've had access to the solution quite

00:50:33.389 --> 00:50:37.230
recently and it has been tested on some test

00:50:37.230 --> 00:50:41.889
events so we have a platform where we can test

00:50:41.889 --> 00:50:47.329
the graphics of course graphics are working like

00:50:47.329 --> 00:50:53.059
all the results big result screens and names,

00:50:53.260 --> 00:50:56.840
etc. It's very easy to test, for example, just

00:50:56.840 --> 00:51:00.980
because they don't necessarily need a live update.

00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:09.139
But for all these provisional graphics, live

00:51:09.139 --> 00:51:11.539
progression bar, so the lead bar on the side,

00:51:11.719 --> 00:51:17.409
it's much more complicated to test. Of course,

00:51:17.449 --> 00:51:20.349
you can do that and simulate some events. But

00:51:20.349 --> 00:51:24.409
like, for example, in China, I had some problem

00:51:24.409 --> 00:51:27.829
with the internet connection just because of

00:51:27.829 --> 00:51:33.730
the Chinese firewalls. I think it was blocking

00:51:33.730 --> 00:51:37.829
the access of the platform. I mean, it was slowing

00:51:37.829 --> 00:51:43.610
it down. So there are things that we can't foresee

00:51:43.610 --> 00:51:49.230
in the tests. And because it's a new solution,

00:51:49.449 --> 00:51:53.269
I have a team on support during the live stream.

00:51:53.389 --> 00:51:57.230
So I'm exchanging with them constantly and I'm

00:51:57.230 --> 00:52:00.170
giving them feedbacks on where it updates and

00:52:00.170 --> 00:52:05.070
where it does not. So they just improve that.

00:52:05.150 --> 00:52:11.010
So there was some tests and then like in any...

00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.239
development. I'm working also beside the FSC.

00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.019
I'm also working on some applications and stuff

00:52:18.019 --> 00:52:21.760
like that. We can make as much tests as we want.

00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:28.360
Nothing beats the live event. You will always

00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.400
find bugs. Like me, for example, trying to display

00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:34.539
that at some weird moment just because there

00:52:34.539 --> 00:52:40.199
is a dead time and the live progression was not

00:52:40.539 --> 00:52:43.639
meant to be displayed at this moment. So like

00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:46.099
in between, for example, two climbers and there

00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:49.460
is no active climber. And then, of course, the

00:52:49.460 --> 00:52:53.420
active climber is not on the lead bar and it

00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:57.280
should appear. So just weird things like that.

00:52:58.579 --> 00:53:01.280
So yeah, we are exchanging a lot of feedbacks.

00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:06.179
It will get better event by event. And it's already

00:53:06.179 --> 00:53:11.039
much improved, I think. And another thing, like

00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:16.980
why it's not updated, it's better now, but sometimes

00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:21.000
the judges, they just input the scores at the

00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:27.179
end of the run, for example. Because the judges,

00:53:27.380 --> 00:53:31.199
so there is one having the tablet and making

00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.699
the plus, plus, plus while the climber is going

00:53:34.699 --> 00:53:38.159
up, for example. And then there is another one.

00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:43.739
having the topo of the route being printed and

00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:51.539
following with the finger the progression of

00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:55.260
the climber. And I don't know, maybe if the judge

00:53:55.260 --> 00:53:59.940
with the tablet is not sure of where he is at

00:53:59.940 --> 00:54:03.539
the moment with his whole number, he has to refer

00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:06.900
to the topo, etc. And that can take some time.

00:54:07.469 --> 00:54:09.849
It's also an explanation sometimes. And sometimes

00:54:09.849 --> 00:54:13.570
they don't update right away. They input the

00:54:13.570 --> 00:54:16.909
result at the end. So when the climber has fallen,

00:54:17.130 --> 00:54:20.170
they check. They make sure that the result is

00:54:20.170 --> 00:54:22.369
correct. They make it official. They put it in

00:54:22.369 --> 00:54:24.570
the tablet. Then we have the result only at the

00:54:24.570 --> 00:54:30.650
end. So sometimes I'm sending a message and the

00:54:30.650 --> 00:54:33.789
judges are being told to input the result live.

00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:41.300
So yes, there are reasons, but different. Sometimes

00:54:41.300 --> 00:54:44.780
it's user errors. Sometimes it's, yeah. Yeah,

00:54:44.860 --> 00:54:46.659
another thing people were wondering about was,

00:54:46.699 --> 00:54:49.659
or people were asking for, was seeing scores

00:54:49.659 --> 00:54:52.820
show up on screen more often, which, yeah, I

00:54:52.820 --> 00:54:56.980
think that's a fair ask. It mostly depends on

00:54:56.980 --> 00:55:04.480
how the director is filming the climbing. if

00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.179
he or she leaves enough space for the scores.

00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:15.340
If he or she... Yeah, I mean, now we have in

00:55:15.340 --> 00:55:17.460
bouldering, we have the split screen now that

00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:20.739
has been mostly introduced for the main semis

00:55:20.739 --> 00:55:26.880
in Keishao. So there is a live, the provisional

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:31.860
on the right and then the four names at the top.

00:55:32.250 --> 00:55:35.449
That's quite nice. And it means that the results

00:55:35.449 --> 00:55:39.610
are there all the times. That's great. Then in

00:55:39.610 --> 00:55:44.750
finals, we have a split screen already sometimes.

00:55:45.630 --> 00:55:49.789
I like split screens. I'm all for split screens,

00:55:49.909 --> 00:55:53.409
but it means that sometimes there is not that

00:55:53.409 --> 00:55:56.929
much space to display the graphics also. So I

00:55:56.929 --> 00:56:00.590
display the names and there is maybe not space

00:56:00.590 --> 00:56:06.630
for anything else. And then in between, in rotations,

00:56:07.070 --> 00:56:09.949
maybe the director is putting in some replays

00:56:09.949 --> 00:56:13.170
and there is no time to display the results.

00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:17.989
So again, it's a question of getting to know

00:56:17.989 --> 00:56:20.670
how the director is going to work. Sometimes

00:56:20.670 --> 00:56:27.289
also it's a director wanting to decide when I'm

00:56:27.289 --> 00:56:32.460
displaying things. My role is to be under the

00:56:32.460 --> 00:56:38.340
direction of the director, right? So I have to

00:56:38.340 --> 00:56:41.039
follow what he wants to do. And sometimes it

00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:43.739
doesn't want to have that much thing on the screen

00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:47.199
and prefer to display some other things. Although

00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:51.219
it's quite tricky with this new format. Just

00:56:51.219 --> 00:56:55.059
because people are not climbing the same boulders

00:56:55.059 --> 00:56:59.329
at the same time. Some people have a score. when

00:56:59.329 --> 00:57:01.769
they have two boulders while some others have

00:57:01.769 --> 00:57:06.269
a score with three boulders already. But yeah,

00:57:06.409 --> 00:57:11.630
I kind of agree that it's important in this case

00:57:11.630 --> 00:57:14.409
to display the results more often. And I think

00:57:14.409 --> 00:57:16.989
we will try to do that in the future. The fact

00:57:16.989 --> 00:57:19.730
that it's a new format also, I mean, there is

00:57:19.730 --> 00:57:23.809
some adjustment ongoing, right? Like split screen,

00:57:23.949 --> 00:57:26.989
it's obvious. Like we have seen that with...

00:57:27.369 --> 00:57:32.570
combined last year uh yeah two people on the

00:57:32.570 --> 00:57:34.909
screen of yeah two people on the mat of course

00:57:34.909 --> 00:57:39.230
you you do a split screen um it's not a lot of

00:57:39.230 --> 00:57:41.909
productions don't really like it because it's

00:57:41.909 --> 00:57:47.489
not tv like oh really yeah yeah yeah i don't

00:57:47.489 --> 00:57:51.710
know it's it's coming from tv some productions

00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:54.510
don't really like it but i think for for climbing

00:57:54.510 --> 00:57:58.610
it works quite well um And the good thing is

00:57:58.610 --> 00:58:01.809
graphics aren't developed like that now. So it

00:58:01.809 --> 00:58:05.090
pushes directors to actually use split screens.

00:58:05.510 --> 00:58:09.530
Good to know. You also mentioned that there's

00:58:09.530 --> 00:58:11.989
often difficulty with the timing system. What

00:58:11.989 --> 00:58:13.929
do you mean by that? Just like putting the clock

00:58:13.929 --> 00:58:19.610
on the screen? It's more like there is not a

00:58:19.610 --> 00:58:29.050
uniformized solution for timing. In a lot of

00:58:29.050 --> 00:58:33.030
events, there is one solution, but for example,

00:58:33.090 --> 00:58:41.590
in China, it's a local company doing the timing

00:58:41.590 --> 00:58:47.110
system. So from one event to the next, it's different

00:58:47.110 --> 00:58:52.539
the way we retrieve the timing system. The timer

00:58:52.539 --> 00:58:58.719
is not included in the graphic solution. Just

00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.500
because there are different kinds of data that

00:59:02.500 --> 00:59:05.300
needs to be retrieved, etc. Usually, we just

00:59:05.300 --> 00:59:07.639
retrieve a video signal. That's much easier.

00:59:07.940 --> 00:59:18.190
And we mix it in the live stream. But it's not

00:59:18.190 --> 00:59:20.949
integrated directly in the graphic just because

00:59:20.949 --> 00:59:22.989
there are different companies doing different

00:59:22.989 --> 00:59:30.989
things. Now we know most of the system used in

00:59:30.989 --> 00:59:35.429
the different World Cups. So yeah, there is no

00:59:35.429 --> 00:59:37.710
problem to retrieve at least the video signal.

00:59:39.610 --> 00:59:46.530
And from this year, we do two clocks now on semis.

00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:51.039
lead semis, which is finally a good improvement.

00:59:51.739 --> 00:59:57.159
The big problem is there is not a uniform clock.

00:59:57.480 --> 01:00:04.039
But that's also normal. There are some organizers

01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:07.800
that have been using this system. The organizers

01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:13.469
are providing everything. so that the competition

01:00:13.469 --> 01:00:16.989
happens, right? So they provide the walls, the

01:00:16.989 --> 01:00:20.210
holes, etc. And they also provide the timing

01:00:20.210 --> 01:00:24.250
system. So if the local organizer is used to

01:00:24.250 --> 01:00:28.090
work with this timing system, of course, they

01:00:28.090 --> 01:00:33.449
have the LED display with it. They have all the

01:00:33.449 --> 01:00:37.489
material because it's not a light system. Sometimes

01:00:37.489 --> 01:00:40.690
you need to... It's not like the graphic system

01:00:40.690 --> 01:00:45.500
that... comes with on two computers so it's it

01:00:45.500 --> 01:00:48.280
there are a lot of cables involved there is a

01:00:48.280 --> 01:00:53.579
team dedicated to put on the timing system so

01:00:53.579 --> 01:00:58.900
it's not like you can move a timing system team

01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:04.400
from one event to the next it's the organizers

01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:09.860
who have to provide that so that's why we The

01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:12.500
broadcast team of the IFSC have to adapt to what

01:01:12.500 --> 01:01:15.719
is provided by the local organizer. Yeah, I didn't

01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:18.940
know it was so difficult just to, I don't know,

01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.199
just to put up a time. Yeah, I mean, for boulder

01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:26.739
and lead, it's quite easy. But for speed, you

01:01:26.739 --> 01:01:31.199
can't really make anything. I mean, it needs

01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:33.860
to be certified. All these timing systems are

01:01:33.860 --> 01:01:38.280
certified IFSC, but it's still local. It's local

01:01:38.280 --> 01:01:43.699
things. And the CMA, for example, the Chinese

01:01:43.699 --> 01:01:46.219
Federation is working with this timing system.

01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:51.360
Some others are working with Dicron. And all

01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:55.099
these timing systems are certified to be able

01:01:55.099 --> 01:01:58.000
to be on the World Cup. Well, I think that covers

01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:04.159
most of the complaints people had. I hope I...

01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:09.980
I hope I gave some explanations. Yeah. Okay.

01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:12.260
So now for something a little bit lighter and

01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:15.940
maybe more fun. You've traveled with the IFSC

01:02:15.940 --> 01:02:19.619
a bunch. You go around to all the World Cups?

01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:28.179
So I started in 2018. And since then, yes, I've

01:02:28.179 --> 01:02:32.019
done most of the World Cup, yes. Whether we do

01:02:32.019 --> 01:02:35.469
the production ourselves or we don't. So just

01:02:35.469 --> 01:02:39.349
because I'm the graphic operator, I'm basically

01:02:39.349 --> 01:02:42.670
always there because I always need some graphics.

01:02:43.030 --> 01:02:46.030
Yeah, that makes sense. So yeah, that's like

01:02:46.030 --> 01:02:48.969
a lot of traveling you've done. Does anything

01:02:48.969 --> 01:02:51.670
stand out to you in terms of like what makes

01:02:51.670 --> 01:02:53.949
traveling difficult or like any crazy stories

01:02:53.949 --> 01:02:57.409
you have while traveling? Yeah, so when we do

01:02:57.409 --> 01:03:05.320
the production, we usually travel. six people

01:03:05.320 --> 01:03:12.280
and it depends whether we hire cameramen locally

01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:15.280
so maybe it's local cameramen that we need to

01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:19.639
to train specifically for that but when we travel

01:03:19.639 --> 01:03:22.579
by six for example we also come with all our

01:03:22.579 --> 01:03:27.219
gear by plane And it means that it's a lot of

01:03:27.219 --> 01:03:30.380
boxes that we need to declare to the customs,

01:03:30.539 --> 01:03:34.260
to move around on trolleys in airports. People

01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:37.739
think that we are a music band and stuff like

01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:42.940
that. And yeah, so it's not like we can arrive

01:03:42.940 --> 01:03:46.980
one hour, one hour and a half before the flight.

01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.539
So we need to arrive quite a long time before.

01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:54.539
And we need to, like yesterday, I spent, I don't

01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:57.380
know. for hours more when we arrived from Bali,

01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:00.860
like just the time to retrieve all the boxes,

01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:03.159
make sure that everything has arrived, declare

01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:07.219
it at the airport, then crossing the border to

01:04:07.219 --> 01:04:09.619
go back to France and need to declare it again

01:04:09.619 --> 01:04:19.860
and load. So that's quite a lot of work to move

01:04:19.860 --> 01:04:23.980
all these fragile items like that. And yeah,

01:04:24.059 --> 01:04:27.179
we usually travel with one company only just

01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:30.940
to make sure that we have a directed line, a

01:04:30.940 --> 01:04:37.760
direct line. Yeah, and we travel all together.

01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:43.539
It means that we are together sometimes 24 -

01:04:43.539 --> 01:04:48.800
when we share bedrooms. So when we go for three

01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:52.809
weeks, we are always... together so that can

01:04:52.809 --> 01:04:57.010
be difficult to handle sometimes i mean we we

01:04:57.010 --> 01:05:01.130
usually have yeah we have no problem which we

01:05:01.130 --> 01:05:04.269
could not live together like that if we didn't

01:05:04.269 --> 01:05:06.670
like each other but sometimes you would like

01:05:06.670 --> 01:05:09.230
to have a bit your long time you know right um

01:05:09.230 --> 01:05:13.230
and uh yeah each time at the beginning of the

01:05:13.230 --> 01:05:17.010
season i and i i'm telling myself okay this year

01:05:17.010 --> 01:05:21.099
i can i will take some time for me during the

01:05:21.099 --> 01:05:24.119
season. I will work on some other things, etc.

01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:29.460
And in practice, I just can't. I'm just fully

01:05:29.460 --> 01:05:34.559
on the work. And when I'm not working at the

01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:38.639
venue, we do again something together. It's not

01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:42.219
like I can escape to do my own thing. I could,

01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:47.199
but yeah. Not much time. Yeah, not much time.

01:05:48.670 --> 01:05:52.030
And yeah, it's quite strange to be home again.

01:05:52.170 --> 01:05:57.230
It's a lot of busy feeling all the time when

01:05:57.230 --> 01:05:59.909
I'm away and then coming home. Like there is

01:05:59.909 --> 01:06:03.690
this, you know, that sudden slowdown and okay,

01:06:03.829 --> 01:06:06.610
what do I do now? I'm a completely different

01:06:06.610 --> 01:06:12.550
rhythm and it usually takes a few days for me

01:06:12.550 --> 01:06:16.409
to adapt to the new, yeah, to slow down again.

01:06:17.219 --> 01:06:20.380
Yeah, I think Matt said a similar thing. Yeah.

01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.519
Just weird being home. But yeah, Matt, it's even

01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:26.920
worse because he's actually doing, I'm doing

01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:29.179
most of the events. This year, I'm not doing

01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:31.980
all of them because the season is quite cramped.

01:06:32.340 --> 01:06:37.539
So like the beginning, it's also events are concentrated

01:06:37.539 --> 01:06:39.920
at the beginning of the season. There is not

01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:44.360
that much after August. So I'm skipping some

01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:48.079
because I'm not going for the US, for example,

01:06:48.300 --> 01:06:52.920
because I have five weeks in a row already. Oh,

01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:56.440
no. Yeah, sorry. Oh, I thought I was going to

01:06:56.440 --> 01:06:59.960
see you again in Salt Lake. Yeah, sorry. But

01:06:59.960 --> 01:07:03.900
yeah, so this year I've decided to take some

01:07:03.900 --> 01:07:09.019
time off. But for Matt, it's even worse because...

01:07:09.530 --> 01:07:13.949
He's not stopping. He's not replaced. He's doing

01:07:13.949 --> 01:07:19.670
all the World Cups. I mean, even in between events,

01:07:19.929 --> 01:07:22.389
he's not going home. He's doing some other things.

01:07:22.610 --> 01:07:27.869
And I can understand that it can be hard to slow

01:07:27.869 --> 01:07:32.150
down if you have so few time between events.

01:07:33.010 --> 01:07:37.170
It's difficult to readapt to the rhythm all the

01:07:37.170 --> 01:07:40.219
time. Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, yeah, I have

01:07:40.219 --> 01:07:44.440
two days. I'm not going to slow down much because

01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:48.460
I'm just leaving again Friday. So I'm just doing

01:07:48.460 --> 01:07:50.840
a lot of things when I'm at home. Yeah, makes

01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:54.280
sense. And it is a shame that you won't make

01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:57.119
it to the US World Cups. I know you mentioned

01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.460
you had like a weird experience in the US at

01:08:01.460 --> 01:08:09.809
Salt Lake. Yeah, it was a bit weird indeed. last

01:08:09.809 --> 01:08:13.929
year it was in the TC but maybe the year before

01:08:13.929 --> 01:08:19.989
so 2023 we were the venue was located in in a

01:08:19.989 --> 01:08:24.010
park I think it's Pioneer Park yeah Pioneer Park

01:08:24.010 --> 01:08:26.789
in the middle of Salt Lake and it's usually a

01:08:26.789 --> 01:08:30.729
park where there are a lot of homeless people

01:08:30.729 --> 01:08:40.239
and there were pushed for the for the competition

01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:44.319
and the venue was enclosed so there were some

01:08:44.319 --> 01:08:49.939
fences around and yeah so around the venue there

01:08:49.939 --> 01:08:55.000
were still a lot of homeless people um and uh

01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:02.659
one day i went to uh uh to the venue early in

01:09:02.659 --> 01:09:06.890
the morning And I didn't have much to do until

01:09:06.890 --> 01:09:09.149
the afternoon or something like that. So I just

01:09:09.149 --> 01:09:12.710
did a few things. And then I had time to go climb

01:09:12.710 --> 01:09:15.970
because I wanted to go to the bouldering project.

01:09:16.210 --> 01:09:20.090
I don't know if you know. So it was like, I don't

01:09:20.090 --> 01:09:24.350
know, 20 minutes away from the venue. So I take

01:09:24.350 --> 01:09:28.470
my climbing stuff. I go to the bouldering project

01:09:28.470 --> 01:09:32.909
and just... Leaving Pioneer Park, I passed by

01:09:32.909 --> 01:09:40.829
one man who was just sleeping under the trees,

01:09:40.949 --> 01:09:44.670
etc. And I remembered that passing by him, I

01:09:44.670 --> 01:09:48.350
looked at him and I saw that he didn't look very,

01:09:48.369 --> 01:09:55.550
very well. Yeah. Yeah. So I went climbing. Nice

01:09:55.550 --> 01:09:58.029
session. I don't know, two hours, maybe something

01:09:58.029 --> 01:10:05.090
like that. And got out, started to be quite warm.

01:10:06.090 --> 01:10:09.949
And I remember passing by another guy that was

01:10:09.949 --> 01:10:13.909
sleeping in full sun, etc. But he didn't look

01:10:13.909 --> 01:10:18.949
very well either. Continued on the avenue. And

01:10:18.949 --> 01:10:23.270
then there was some policemen who had caught

01:10:23.270 --> 01:10:28.439
a woman. They had just grabbed her and... Yeah,

01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:32.119
I don't know. She was screaming like mad. And

01:10:32.119 --> 01:10:37.399
apparently she had just run down the avenue naked.

01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:43.779
And there was a friend on the other side of the

01:10:43.779 --> 01:10:48.420
road and he was yelling at the police also. So

01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:52.420
I thought, okay, that's US. Okay, why not? Yeah,

01:10:52.460 --> 01:10:55.199
now that I'm thinking about it, that does actually

01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:58.340
happen. Yeah. Fairly frequently, I do see that.

01:10:58.579 --> 01:11:03.000
Yeah, yeah, but I'm not used to that. Yeah. Yeah,

01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:08.779
I'm not used to that. And so, yeah. Usual American

01:11:08.779 --> 01:11:13.039
scene, apparently. And I just cross the road

01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:17.800
back to Pioneer Park, and I'm passed by this

01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:21.699
sleeping guy again. He had not moved an inch

01:11:21.699 --> 01:11:25.909
since two hours. And detailing him a little bit

01:11:25.909 --> 01:11:29.529
more. Yeah, he really didn't look very well.

01:11:29.630 --> 01:11:34.350
So I turned back. I asked the police who were

01:11:34.350 --> 01:11:39.010
here. That was nice. I didn't have to call anybody.

01:11:39.329 --> 01:11:41.989
I just told them to just have a look at this

01:11:41.989 --> 01:11:46.750
one. And I continued a bit. And they came to

01:11:46.750 --> 01:11:51.029
see. And they just put the ribbon around him.

01:11:52.489 --> 01:11:57.569
So yeah, that was strange to find this poor dude

01:11:57.569 --> 01:12:01.729
like 50 meters away from the venue like that.

01:12:02.369 --> 01:12:08.189
This whole morning was very strange. Does that

01:12:08.189 --> 01:12:10.590
have anything to do with you not coming back?

01:12:11.430 --> 01:12:13.909
No, no, no. Actually, I came back last year.

01:12:14.689 --> 01:12:18.210
No problem. Well, yeah, sorry that was your experience.

01:12:20.619 --> 01:12:24.579
Can't say I've ever seen a dead person before.

01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:27.800
So it's not always like that here, at least.

01:12:27.899 --> 01:12:31.239
Yeah, it's not like it traumatized me. But yeah,

01:12:32.060 --> 01:12:36.640
it's still weird to know that. Yeah, like it's

01:12:36.640 --> 01:12:39.899
50 meters away, like you are working and people

01:12:39.899 --> 01:12:42.720
are having fun and there's some dude dying there

01:12:42.720 --> 01:12:47.680
in his sleep. Well, at least it seemed semi -peaceful.

01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:52.130
Yeah, hopefully. I don't know. So outside of

01:12:52.130 --> 01:12:55.510
IFSC travel and stuff like that, you also do

01:12:55.510 --> 01:12:58.729
some climbing gym work. You mentioned that you,

01:12:58.810 --> 01:13:03.649
I guess, work for Climb Along. Besides the IFSC,

01:13:03.949 --> 01:13:06.949
mostly during the off -season, but I'm still

01:13:06.949 --> 01:13:10.670
working with them during the IFSC season. So

01:13:10.670 --> 01:13:15.989
I'm working with Climb Along. It's a Danish company.

01:13:16.090 --> 01:13:22.659
It's based in Copenhagen. And we have developed

01:13:22.659 --> 01:13:27.699
a result system. So for competition, climbing,

01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:32.600
climbing competitions. The idea came when I lived

01:13:32.600 --> 01:13:35.119
there at the time. It was, I don't know, in 20...

01:13:35.119 --> 01:13:38.939
I think it was during COVID actually. I was stuck

01:13:38.939 --> 01:13:44.739
there. So because I was working with the AFSC

01:13:44.739 --> 01:13:48.399
already. I connected with them, I met them, and

01:13:48.399 --> 01:13:51.199
we started to develop a result system for competitions,

01:13:51.520 --> 01:13:57.079
just because there was not any result system

01:13:57.079 --> 01:14:00.359
used by the Federation at the time. And so we

01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:03.920
wanted to develop something. The idea was first

01:14:03.920 --> 01:14:08.600
to propose some data for live streams, because

01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:13.229
I wanted to display more. during live streams,

01:14:13.449 --> 01:14:15.989
like predictions for bouldering and stuff like

01:14:15.989 --> 01:14:19.130
that. So the idea came from there. And then from

01:14:19.130 --> 01:14:22.229
one thing after the other, we developed a full

01:14:22.229 --> 01:14:26.789
competition platform. And now we are working

01:14:26.789 --> 01:14:31.270
with some federations, mostly in Scandinavia,

01:14:31.350 --> 01:14:37.449
but also over Europe, like in New Zealand also.

01:14:37.569 --> 01:14:41.380
And we also work with some... climbing gyms in

01:14:41.380 --> 01:14:49.560
the US, actually, in movement. And then we have

01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:53.439
started to work on another product, which is

01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:57.500
called Spot. And the idea is to put some cameras

01:14:57.500 --> 01:15:04.060
in climbing gyms. And we have an image analysis

01:15:04.060 --> 01:15:09.760
program that detects climbers and holds. in the

01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:12.560
climbing gyms. And basically the idea is to give

01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:17.619
feedbacks. So it measures activity in climbing

01:15:17.619 --> 01:15:20.819
gyms. So it counts the number of attempts on

01:15:20.819 --> 01:15:24.300
a boulder, the number of tops on a boulder. And

01:15:24.300 --> 01:15:29.180
it gives feedbacks to the gym owner or to the

01:15:29.180 --> 01:15:33.159
route setter about the activity in his or her

01:15:33.159 --> 01:15:38.079
gym. So that way you can see which boulders are

01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.279
popular, which boulders are tried a lot, where

01:15:41.279 --> 01:15:47.359
they are failed a lot. And then as a route setter,

01:15:47.420 --> 01:15:52.579
you get some data, objective data, so you can

01:15:52.579 --> 01:15:54.859
adjust your route setting for the next time and

01:15:54.859 --> 01:16:03.100
things like that. So the idea is to bypass the...

01:16:03.500 --> 01:16:09.000
a logging app that exists so some climbers are

01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:14.220
using it but it's not really used by most of

01:16:14.220 --> 01:16:18.000
the climbers in gyms let's be honest so we lack

01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:21.699
a lot of data and sometimes it's quite subjective

01:16:21.699 --> 01:16:24.220
data because some climbers are just logging the

01:16:24.220 --> 01:16:28.020
boulders that they are succeeding so Yeah, here

01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:30.939
the idea is really to detect all kind of attempts

01:16:30.939 --> 01:16:34.619
and to give feedbacks like that. The idea is

01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:39.619
really to introduce some data -driven workflows

01:16:39.619 --> 01:16:44.260
in climbing gyms because rotating is quite instinctive,

01:16:44.260 --> 01:16:52.899
you know. Some people even consider it an art.

01:16:54.080 --> 01:16:58.319
Kind of. So you need to feel a bit the movement.

01:16:58.619 --> 01:17:04.640
You need to, it's very tactile, right? Climbing

01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.420
is tactile, but even for route setter, you need

01:17:07.420 --> 01:17:09.960
to feel all the holes. You need to feel, okay,

01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:12.279
this move, you are trying all the time, et cetera.

01:17:14.140 --> 01:17:18.539
But here's the idea is really to give back objective

01:17:18.539 --> 01:17:28.310
data to route setters. That's not easy to make.

01:17:29.229 --> 01:17:33.850
Some rotators understand it very well and see

01:17:33.850 --> 01:17:38.890
the point of having results on a huge amount

01:17:38.890 --> 01:17:42.850
of data because that's really a huge amount of

01:17:42.850 --> 01:17:46.069
attempts that can happen in one day in a busy

01:17:46.069 --> 01:17:49.390
climbing gym. that's quite a lot or even a week

01:17:49.390 --> 01:17:51.829
like some boulders they get i don't know how

01:17:51.829 --> 01:17:56.289
many attempts 5000 attempts in a week so that's

01:17:56.289 --> 01:17:59.510
quite a lot of and with this amount of attempts

01:17:59.510 --> 01:18:06.489
you can get quite objective uh you can you can

01:18:06.489 --> 01:18:10.609
see things you can start to see things and it's

01:18:10.609 --> 01:18:16.149
very different uh to the way route setters are

01:18:16.720 --> 01:18:19.840
currently working, where it's so feeling like.

01:18:20.060 --> 01:18:26.880
Yeah. So introducing data -driven workflows in

01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:34.279
such artistic work, it's quite a hurdle, but

01:18:34.279 --> 01:18:38.220
I think it will work because after that we can

01:18:38.220 --> 01:18:42.710
maybe look into... Maybe the use of holds, for

01:18:42.710 --> 01:18:47.050
example, which holds are used a lot, which holds

01:18:47.050 --> 01:18:51.470
are being, what's the life expectancy of holds?

01:18:52.130 --> 01:18:57.689
Can they withstand that many foot placement on

01:18:57.689 --> 01:19:01.029
them and stuff like that? So you could start

01:19:01.029 --> 01:19:04.390
to gather quite a lot of data on how efficient

01:19:04.390 --> 01:19:07.489
your gym can become. Did you work in a climbing

01:19:07.489 --> 01:19:13.420
gym before? these things in climate change? No,

01:19:13.539 --> 01:19:16.619
I've not. Actually, I have not. But yeah, we

01:19:16.619 --> 01:19:19.260
have talked to a lot of route setters and see

01:19:19.260 --> 01:19:22.119
how they are working. And there are many different

01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:24.500
workflows from one country to the next, from

01:19:24.500 --> 01:19:28.180
one gym to the next. There is a lot of different

01:19:28.180 --> 01:19:31.739
philosophies from what they want to provide to

01:19:31.739 --> 01:19:35.800
their customers. And of course, there are a lot

01:19:35.800 --> 01:19:39.300
of ethical questions. coming with it also. The

01:19:39.300 --> 01:19:50.180
big topic is how can that standardize climbing

01:19:50.180 --> 01:19:53.619
and do we want to standardize climbing? In my

01:19:53.619 --> 01:19:57.279
opinion, it's probably not. I think climbing

01:19:57.279 --> 01:20:00.220
is so nice just because there is so much diversity

01:20:00.220 --> 01:20:04.880
in climbing. So it's more like to give. feedback

01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:07.500
to people and then people decide what they want

01:20:07.500 --> 01:20:09.579
to do well like what do you mean by standardized

01:20:09.579 --> 01:20:15.819
like if you get some feedbacks on uh on your

01:20:15.819 --> 01:20:18.479
boulder and you see like this style of boulder

01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:22.420
is is very popular in your gym are you going

01:20:22.420 --> 01:20:26.539
to set only this type of boulder or do you want

01:20:26.539 --> 01:20:29.060
your customers to improve also in this style

01:20:29.060 --> 01:20:35.130
of climbing like in i don't know In one place,

01:20:35.229 --> 01:20:37.609
maybe people are very good at slabs. In another

01:20:37.609 --> 01:20:41.409
place, they suck at slabs. Do you want to still

01:20:41.409 --> 01:20:44.470
set slabs and so people get better at slabs or

01:20:44.470 --> 01:20:47.149
you want to completely remove slabs from your

01:20:47.149 --> 01:20:52.550
gym and your customer just gets the tops they

01:20:52.550 --> 01:20:56.949
need? Yeah, so that, I mean, it already happens.

01:20:57.069 --> 01:20:59.210
There are some genes who don't want to necessarily

01:20:59.210 --> 01:21:01.390
have slabs. Makes sense. Yeah, that's a cool

01:21:01.390 --> 01:21:05.310
project. It's quite interesting, yeah. So, yeah,

01:21:05.350 --> 01:21:07.229
in terms of getting into some of the audience

01:21:07.229 --> 01:21:11.189
-submitted questions now, do you ever personally

01:21:11.189 --> 01:21:14.869
re -watch comps for fun or to get better at your

01:21:14.869 --> 01:21:17.470
job? Or just because maybe you missed it because

01:21:17.470 --> 01:21:19.750
you didn't really get to watch it while you're

01:21:19.750 --> 01:21:25.720
working on it? Yes, I do. I started working at

01:21:25.720 --> 01:21:29.680
the FSC after because I was watching comps. And

01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:36.960
when I'm not doing World Cups, I'm doing most

01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:39.060
of the World Cups. So I'm never re -watching.

01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:42.899
I'm never really watching World Cups events,

01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:48.500
but I'm watching other events that I'm not on.

01:21:49.109 --> 01:21:53.210
So just to check what is going on. But I'm probably

01:21:53.210 --> 01:21:57.649
not watching the full live from zero to finish.

01:21:57.810 --> 01:22:01.350
I'm skipping a bit. It's a dead time. Maybe skipping

01:22:01.350 --> 01:22:04.149
one athlete to go to the next boulder and stuff

01:22:04.149 --> 01:22:10.529
like that. So yes, I mean, if I'm watching to

01:22:10.529 --> 01:22:14.510
get better at my job, after a live, I know what

01:22:14.510 --> 01:22:19.250
was wrong and what was that. Yeah, what was not

01:22:19.250 --> 01:22:23.289
good. I know it right away. Besides the graphics,

01:22:23.449 --> 01:22:26.930
I'm also in charge of the running order. So make

01:22:26.930 --> 01:22:29.010
sure that the graphics are displayed at the right

01:22:29.010 --> 01:22:32.149
time. But I'm also saying to the... When I'm

01:22:32.149 --> 01:22:34.890
working with my colleague, I'm telling him when

01:22:34.890 --> 01:22:37.850
to display what at what time. So I'm giving the

01:22:37.850 --> 01:22:42.470
countdowns all the time. And I know when the

01:22:42.470 --> 01:22:45.789
live streams is going well, there is a nice rhythm.

01:22:45.850 --> 01:22:50.520
We are well on time. for each deadlines on the

01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:53.039
TV breaks and stuff like that. I feel like the

01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:56.840
rhythm is good. The shots are moving quite well

01:22:56.840 --> 01:23:00.699
after each other. And we debrief after. Usually

01:23:00.699 --> 01:23:05.859
we say what was good, what was not good. So after

01:23:05.859 --> 01:23:10.220
a live stream, we usually know what was good

01:23:10.220 --> 01:23:13.260
or not. And of course, we can go back to it and

01:23:13.260 --> 01:23:15.960
see, OK, at this moment, the colors were not

01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:24.399
good. The sound was a bit shaky. There was too

01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:28.619
many shots on the quick draw, for example. Last

01:23:28.619 --> 01:23:31.079
weekend, there was too many shots on the quick

01:23:31.079 --> 01:23:35.239
draws. So we're really happy about that. But

01:23:35.239 --> 01:23:39.619
yeah, too much. So we know it for next time.

01:23:39.819 --> 01:23:42.279
Okay, last question. Actually, I don't really

01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:44.000
know if you would know the answer for this, but

01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:46.520
is it legal to be there and stream the whole

01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:49.739
event as a spectator? Actually, I don't think

01:23:49.739 --> 01:23:55.340
so. I would say no. I think it depends on which

01:23:55.340 --> 01:23:59.100
round it is. I know that for qualification, it

01:23:59.100 --> 01:24:02.460
would probably be possible. But for semifinals

01:24:02.460 --> 01:24:04.699
and finals, I don't think that would be possible.

01:24:05.140 --> 01:24:07.399
Yeah, I guess that makes sense because the local...

01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:10.720
Broadcast team has the TV rights. Yeah, I mean,

01:24:10.739 --> 01:24:16.359
there are TV rights for sure. So even to have

01:24:16.359 --> 01:24:19.100
your camera and taking pictures, et cetera, you

01:24:19.100 --> 01:24:22.300
would need an accreditation. Like you got one

01:24:22.300 --> 01:24:27.359
in Keishao, I think. Yeah. And I know that there

01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:33.420
are some athletes who were doing some videos

01:24:33.420 --> 01:24:38.300
about... their competition and, like, you know,

01:24:38.300 --> 01:24:41.079
their vlog, how did it go in the semifinals,

01:24:41.220 --> 01:24:45.560
etc. And, yeah, they needed some accreditation

01:24:45.560 --> 01:24:48.180
for that, for example. A complicated process.

01:24:48.399 --> 01:24:51.659
I guess you would have to ask. Yeah, it's probably

01:24:51.659 --> 01:24:55.000
not. If you want to install a camera on a tripod

01:24:55.000 --> 01:24:59.140
and to film the full qualifications, maybe. Maybe.

01:24:59.180 --> 01:25:02.220
I think they would be okay with that. But you

01:25:02.220 --> 01:25:05.300
would need to ask, I think, before. For semifinals

01:25:05.300 --> 01:25:08.640
and finals, probably not. Cool. I think that

01:25:08.640 --> 01:25:11.140
is all the questions I had then. Thanks for joining

01:25:11.140 --> 01:25:13.699
me today. Is there anything you want to shout

01:25:13.699 --> 01:25:15.800
out or let people know where they could find

01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:19.000
you if they have further discussion topics? Yes.

01:25:19.020 --> 01:25:21.619
I mean, I have a quite confidential Instagram,

01:25:21.819 --> 01:25:26.699
but if you want to trash me on Instagram now,

01:25:26.819 --> 01:25:32.350
yeah, I'm Antonafareller. OK, I will leave the

01:25:32.350 --> 01:25:35.930
link in the description. Any last minute thoughts,

01:25:36.189 --> 01:25:37.689
or you feel like you got everything out there?

01:25:38.670 --> 01:25:43.510
No, I think we have covered most of it. I will

01:25:43.510 --> 01:25:46.909
do my best to improve the predictions, but yeah.

01:25:47.050 --> 01:25:50.770
Good to hear. All right. Okay. Thank you again.

01:25:50.829 --> 01:25:53.029
And it was amazing to talk to you. Yeah. Thank

01:25:53.029 --> 01:25:55.729
you very much. Thank you so much for making it

01:25:55.729 --> 01:25:58.210
to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to like

01:25:58.210 --> 01:26:00.369
and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you

01:26:00.369 --> 01:26:03.489
are a super big climber. If you're listening

01:26:03.489 --> 01:26:06.029
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:26:06.029 --> 01:26:08.989
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:26:08.989 --> 01:26:12.149
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:26:12.149 --> 01:26:14.609
in the description. Thanks again for listening.