42: Ty Hardaway, IFSC Head of Belay

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Jakob Schubert told me, he said, I'd rather you

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drop me to the floor than short rope me. Instinctively,

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I dropped the speed starting module, grabbed

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the rope. He finished it. I got pulled over the

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PA system. I had burns in my hand. I may not

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know who's going to play the Olympics. It's one

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of those things where just, if that's your goal,

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you may want to reevaluate your goals. sobbing

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in the corner because they didn't make the cut

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to go to semis or finals and have a parent hover

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over them and said, well, you should have climbed

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better. Welcome to another episode of the That's

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Not Roll Climbing podcast. I'm your host, Jinni,

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and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,

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Ty Hardaway. Ty has been around and he's done

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it all. He's been competition belaying, judging,

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and coaching for over 10 years, and he started

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the belay programs at USA Climbing and the IFSC.

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In this episode, we'll learn about all things

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belaying, get behind -the -scenes insight, and

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hear about how the scene has changed since the

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Olympics came into play, leading to some toxic

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parents. He has so much knowledge and just so

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many interesting little anecdotes, you'll understand

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why he's so beloved in the competition scene.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Ty. Real quick,

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I'm excited to announce my new sponsor helping

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Back to the show. Are you getting ready for Youth

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Nationals in Portland? Yes, I am. In fact, I'm

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leaving tomorrow morning, very, very early,

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o 'clock Eastern time. Oh, no, I hate those.

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It's okay. I'm not paying for it. Oh, sure, but

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I'm waking up, I guess at like 4. Well, the worst

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is the flight they booked back for me so they

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don't have to pay for another night is Red Eye.

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Yeah, from the West Coast to the East Coast.

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I'm too old for that crap. I guess it's like

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flying to Europe, though. Yeah, but it's not

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quite long enough for a solid sleep. Exactly.

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Yeah, that's kind of why I don't go back to the

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East Coast very often. Oh, I'm glad you empathize.

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Where are you right now? Just in San Diego. Oh,

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I have good friends in San Diego. Awesome. It's

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a great place, yeah. Well, I was born in Los

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Angeles and I grew up in Claremont, so San Diego

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is like a cousin to me. Nice, yeah. Yeah. But

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I grew up in Pennsylvania, so I should go back

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every once in a while, but it's just, it's so

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far. Yeah. San Diego is a good place for anybody.

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That's cool. Oh yeah. That's so nice. Is there

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anything you need to like specifically mentally

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prepare for with going to youth nationals? Actually,

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yes. You know, I, my, my career has sustained

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in belaying because I've also become quite a

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a fitness person. I know it's really embarrassing

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thing to say, but I work out several times a

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week, but I also do a lot of balance and focus

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and just stillness exercises, which I think really

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helps my belaying career. The second part of

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Youth Nationals, I will coach. So I get to be

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a lot more, a lot more chill. The kids used to

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call me Coach Uncle Ty, which is cut. I think,

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oh yeah, you can see it. There's a sign right

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there that says cut. It's the Coach Uncle Ty,

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sorry. So yeah, this is going to be a lot of

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fun. Wait, what kind of kids do you coach? Are

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you part of a team? I am part of a team. I'm

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the head speed coach for Sport Rock and I have

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11 athletes going to this championship. It's

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a secret side hustle. the head speed coach at

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Sport Rock for four years, and I've coached speed

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going back to when my daughter was a competition

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climber. Wow. So have you speed climbed much?

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You know, some of the best coaches in sports

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don't actually participate actively in the sport.

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They are more theorists and students of said

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sport. I've tried it a couple times way back

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in the day, and every single one of my athletes

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would probably lap me several times at this point.

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I guess I don't know that many coaches, but I

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would think you would have to be at like a certain

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level or like maybe previously. Previously, one

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could say I was at a certain level. I mean, I've

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climbed. I've climbed for a very long time. And

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I think one of my historical touchstones is I

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started climbing in eighth grade. And for me,

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that was 1978. Whoa. Okay. Yeah. This was in

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Mr. Lashi's field studies class, a class we actually

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had in eighth grade. And we would, you know,

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do ropes and knots and, you know, talk about

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belaying and rappelling and stuff. Then we'd

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go up into the hills and do it. I'm surprised

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that you had a class in eighth grade for that.

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It was so rad. And then there were years and

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years where I didn't climb. And then when my

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kid was five. She said we were in Berkeley and

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she said, I want to go to a skate park and a

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climbing gym. So my friend Rich took us to both

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of those places. And she walked into Ironworks

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and she looked around and she said, I'm going

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to do this. And that's how it all started. It

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is how it all started because but she was too

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young to do it then at that point. So, you know,

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a little while later, she did the birthday party

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and then rec club and then team. And then she

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came off team as an independent climber. And

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she had, you know. She had a good career. Okay.

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So then when did you get into climbing after

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eighth grade? Off and on, I went with friends

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to like what were rudimentary climbing gyms.

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You know, some were just like cinder block walls

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with some cinder blocks missing and some holds

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glued. And some were like the early, there was

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early, you know, earth treks here in this area

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that, you know, my friend Al would take me to

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and other people would go to. You know, I really

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learned lead first. And that's basically all

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I do because I don't want to have the safety

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and comfort and the mental safety net of top

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rope. I don't want to know the difference. I

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just want to know that if I'm high on a clip

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and I fall, I'm going to fall. I don't want that

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to be an impediment. I'm kind of weird like that.

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Well, so are you saying you never top rope? Rarely,

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rarely, rarely top rope. I'd say, you know, nine

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out of ten times I'm going to, more than nine

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out of ten times it's going to be lead. And I've

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bouldered a little bit, but, you know, I'm old

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and things break and things hurt. I understand

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boulders. I've judged boulders to a very, very

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high level. And so then how did you get into

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volunteering? I'm assuming that's after your

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daughter started climbing? a local event, which

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is now called a qualifying event for youth. And

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she was maybe 11 or 12 or I forget what age.

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And it was a lot of parents talking about competition

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climbing and judging and belaying. And I decided,

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well, I think I'll help out so I can take my

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introvert itself and go do something else. And

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so I started judging first, which is pretty funny.

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And I've judged to a very high level, as I mentioned,

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all the way through every U .S. championship

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and primary boulder for, like, World Cup, which

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is an honor, a privilege, and just absolutely

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stunning thing to be able to do. But then after

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a while, I knew how to belay. I was a pretty

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good belayer. But I was at another comp, and,

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you know, they took the volunteers to the back,

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and my intention was to judge. And the person

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organizing it said, okay, belayers on this side,

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judges on this side. And this one guy kind of

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raised his hand. He goes, well, I know how to

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belay on paper. So my friend John took him and

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said, you're a judge. And he grabbed me and he

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said, you're a belayer. So that was my first

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competition belaying experience. Now I've done

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a lot. I probably am the highest mileage competition

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belayer, if not in the country, perhaps. close

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to on the planet i know a couple people have

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done it for years and years and years but yeah

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i've done belaying is what i do i consider myself

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in this activity to be a belayer sure yeah and

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i guess not even a judge either even though you've

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done world cup judging as well yeah i don't you

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know i'm a level three u .s judge and i've judged

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every series but i it's It's not what I identify

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as. Okay. Do you have any crazy judging stories

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from back in those days? I've judged through

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last year. I don't think I've judged this year,

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but I've judged. I was asked to be a finals judge

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at Youth National Championships last year, and

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I did a North American cup. You do it all. Yeah,

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because they know what they're going to get.

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Pretty dedicated to it. But crazy stories? Yeah,

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I was judging national team trials. And the person

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I was judging with, my secondary, was a parent

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first, which is fine. You know, you can be a

00:10:17.779 --> 00:10:20.759
parent first. But I looked down and I saw that

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she was texting scores to grandma. And then she

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started actively rooting for her child. very

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awkward because we're supposed to not be biased

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and such but it was like uh yeah let's uh let's

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tighten up the standards a little bit because

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you know anyone witnessing this could think well

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there there may be some sort of either focus

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lapse or bias lapse really sweet person really

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wonderful person but it's not the place to text

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grandma with the scores yeah okay how was this

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like recent or Yeah, it was a few years back.

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And I've had some really good mentors in judging.

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Like I think the first people I really judged

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with USA Climbing at a high level was like Tammy

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Pelican and John Kelly. And those are the people

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that brought me on. And then I just advanced

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from there and I got my certification and all

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of that stuff. I even have like a certified judge's

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shirt, which I'm extremely proud of. Well, I'm

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glad you are still proud of your judging background.

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I am proud of it. I think I'm pretty good at

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it. It's just, as one chases one's passions,

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I think belaying is where it's at for me. And

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if I don't judge, it opens up room for other

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people to come in and get that experience too.

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And you said that you think you're good at it.

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What makes a good judge versus a bad judge? And

00:11:41.610 --> 00:11:43.649
similarly with belaying, what makes a good belayer

00:11:43.649 --> 00:11:50.669
and bad belayer? focus in a relaxed manner. I've

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judged with people who I notice they're watching

00:11:54.509 --> 00:11:57.309
the action on another route than we're supposed

00:11:57.309 --> 00:12:00.269
to be watching the climber. And there's other

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people, and I'm not saying this in a derogatory

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fashion, but they're fans. They're fans first

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and then they're volunteers second. They're watching

00:12:07.570 --> 00:12:09.210
to see what the outcomes are. They're seeing

00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:12.149
how a particular climber is climbing at that

00:12:12.149 --> 00:12:13.950
point, whether they're directly in front of them

00:12:13.950 --> 00:12:17.259
or in a route around them. Or, you know, texting

00:12:17.259 --> 00:12:20.220
grandma scores, which, you know, I don't want

00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:22.059
to sound too critical about that, but it just

00:12:22.059 --> 00:12:26.100
took away from the judging. But what makes a

00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:29.340
good judge is someone who can kind of detach

00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:34.299
from being outcome oriented where everyone falls

00:12:34.299 --> 00:12:37.460
in the categories to just being able to relax

00:12:37.460 --> 00:12:40.759
and focus on one thing. You know, I've seen judges

00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:44.139
go up to a problem and kind of climb their way

00:12:44.139 --> 00:12:48.110
through it. When my philosophy as a judge, as

00:12:48.110 --> 00:12:51.230
a head judge, is focus on the start, you know,

00:12:51.269 --> 00:12:54.070
the four -point start, focus on control of the

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zone, focus on the top. We don't have to climb

00:12:56.629 --> 00:12:59.309
it. In fact, it's really exciting when someone

00:12:59.309 --> 00:13:02.529
absolutely breaks the beta and it's like, whoa,

00:13:02.629 --> 00:13:06.590
I didn't see that coming. But, you know, a lot

00:13:06.590 --> 00:13:08.529
of judges are eager. Someone will get to the

00:13:08.529 --> 00:13:12.029
top and they are clipboard up. Oh, they fell

00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:16.440
off. And notoriously, you know, I was a judge

00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:21.200
in 21, but this event, 21 World Cup, when Brooke

00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.879
won and Sean won too. But, you know, Yanya went

00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.159
up for a top and she kind of slid off and everyone

00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.179
was going absolutely nuts. But my clipboard stayed

00:13:31.179 --> 00:13:33.899
in my lap and people were mad that I didn't award

00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:38.179
the top. But upon appeal, it was not a top. She

00:13:38.179 --> 00:13:41.720
climbed it again. She got it. Sadly. When we

00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.039
do look at the outcome, she probably didn't perform

00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:50.399
as well as she wanted to. But you have to absolutely

00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:55.120
steel yourself to focus on the start, using the

00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.700
zone, or controlling the zone and controlling

00:13:58.700 --> 00:14:03.039
the top. You can't prematurely award something

00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.059
that didn't happen. Because internationally,

00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.039
appeals will come just flying in. They're like...

00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.700
They're like darts just coming at you. And I've

00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:16.759
sustained a lot of appeals and I've felt I've

00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.500
done a good job. I had one climber, you know,

00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:25.360
pretty famous climber. He got to the start and,

00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:30.059
you know, I said, hey, can you come? I didn't

00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:32.120
say it like that, but in essence was, can you

00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:35.059
come down? That wasn't a start. And he decided

00:14:35.059 --> 00:14:37.879
to argue it right there on the spot that, you

00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:40.899
know, I did start right. That was a start. You

00:14:40.899 --> 00:14:43.279
know, I'm going to sit here and appeal it. Well,

00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:47.059
his clot kept ticking. And then upon appeal,

00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.019
it was not a legal start. He could have just

00:14:50.019 --> 00:14:53.539
used that time to get the start. And the head

00:14:53.539 --> 00:14:56.539
IFC judge, the JP, said, hey, you know, you did

00:14:56.539 --> 00:14:58.279
a really good job. A lot of people would have

00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:05.100
just said, oh, okay, and let it go. IFSC events

00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:10.639
and for USA events are volunteers. The head judging

00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.299
officials are people that deploy and travel and

00:15:13.299 --> 00:15:16.100
are assigned to these things. But some people

00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:18.580
are fairly new at it and some people are very

00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:20.580
experienced at it. So there's a lot of variation.

00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:23.710
And then for belaying? What makes a good belayer,

00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:25.990
again, is, you know, there's a certain fitness

00:15:25.990 --> 00:15:28.129
level. There's a certain honesty you have to

00:15:28.129 --> 00:15:30.970
have with your body. If your neck is killing

00:15:30.970 --> 00:15:33.330
you and you haven't trained for looking up into

00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:35.769
the sky for hours, you have to be able to say,

00:15:35.909 --> 00:15:38.909
hey, can I go take a rest? Because once you're

00:15:38.909 --> 00:15:41.710
in pain, you're not going to belay as well. Well,

00:15:42.350 --> 00:15:45.029
wait, how do you train your neck? Is this like

00:15:45.029 --> 00:15:48.950
F1 training? Oh, pretty much, yeah. Wow. Specifically,

00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:52.250
what I do is there's an exercise I use with an

00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.309
elastic band. You basically put it behind your

00:15:56.309 --> 00:15:59.230
head, you pull tension, and you hold it for periods

00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.850
of time. And it's a calisthenic exercise that

00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:05.070
just trains the strength in your neck for holding

00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:08.289
your head looking straight up like an idiot.

00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:14.350
Wow. And we don't really use belay glasses. They're

00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:17.919
acceptable, but we don't use them. in high -level

00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.080
competitions, championships, and elite events,

00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.799
mostly because, and especially in close proximity,

00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.019
like quali rounds, there's people right next

00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:27.899
to you, there's climbers right next to your climbers.

00:16:29.019 --> 00:16:31.159
Cognitively, the glasses will lock you into one

00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:33.419
place, and your brain will say, oh, I'm focused

00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.059
on this, whereas there's things happening left,

00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.860
right, on the ground, left and right, that you

00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:42.080
really need to be aware of. So you'll see a lot

00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.940
of blares. in these close proximity situations.

00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:47.919
You will see them move before someone falls to

00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.559
their right, who may fall directly in there because

00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.840
they're processing not only their climber, but

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.820
the climbers on the routes adjacent and the blares

00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:01.980
on the ground adjacent. It's headier than a lot

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:06.319
of people know. And it's physically and mentally

00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.920
grueling at times, especially for long qualifying

00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.759
rounds. Yeah, how long are like qualifying rounds

00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.220
usually? Back in the day, we did like open nationals

00:17:15.220 --> 00:17:17.599
with like four belayers. And that was like six

00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:23.359
hours of nonstop belaying for four dudes. Now

00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.980
we try to deploy in the program working in pairs

00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:29.420
or working three people to two problems called

00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:33.079
the 3 -2. And, you know, rounds are typically,

00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.259
you know, two to four hours. But we're working

00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:41.039
in pairs and in trios now. So you have an opportunity

00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.630
to. to give your body a little bit of rest. And

00:17:44.630 --> 00:17:47.150
while you're resting, you're watching the other

00:17:47.150 --> 00:17:48.990
belayer to make sure they're not pulling a knot

00:17:48.990 --> 00:17:51.170
or that their bag hasn't fallen, things like

00:17:51.170 --> 00:17:55.650
that. But it is a way to, to relax the body.

00:17:56.369 --> 00:17:59.849
Interesting. Yeah. I had no idea. So yeah, you've

00:17:59.849 --> 00:18:02.990
been belaying for many years, seen a lot of volunteers

00:18:02.990 --> 00:18:06.869
belaying. What are some of like the most dangerous

00:18:06.869 --> 00:18:09.490
common belay practices you've seen at competitions?

00:18:09.910 --> 00:18:13.880
The most dangerous. ballet practices at competitions

00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:18.779
is just a lack of focus. A lack of focus will

00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:22.759
lead you down the path of trouble. You know,

00:18:22.779 --> 00:18:25.599
on one hand, during a climb, you don't want to

00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.720
short rope a person, but you also don't want

00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.160
to leave too much slack in for the first few

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.400
clips. And I have had climbers, professional

00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.099
climbers. Jakob Schubert told me, he said, at

00:18:36.099 --> 00:18:39.779
world championships, he said, listen. And I'd

00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.819
belayed him before, so he was being very funny.

00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:45.220
He said, listen, I'd rather you drop me to the

00:18:45.220 --> 00:18:47.680
floor than short rope me. So I looked at him

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.660
and I said, well, I can do that. And he just

00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:53.880
howled with laughter. It was a moment. But you

00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.460
have to protect the bottom where someone can

00:18:58.460 --> 00:19:02.839
deck. But you also have to be... very quick with

00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:04.700
giving slack on those. And then as they climb

00:19:04.700 --> 00:19:06.900
higher, you have to be able to give slack. I

00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:10.460
mean, we've seen recent world cups where there

00:19:10.460 --> 00:19:13.880
have been technical incidents because of rope

00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.400
control, which is something you don't want to

00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.160
have. And I'm friendly with the JP for that event.

00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:22.279
And we had discussions about it and he helped

00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.200
me shape some of the language for the IFSC belay

00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.980
program because you, it, it's the last thing.

00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:35.430
An event, a worldwide broadcast event needs is

00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:38.450
for there to be a technical because of the belaying.

00:19:38.730 --> 00:19:41.329
It's embarrassing to the belayers. It's embarrassing

00:19:41.329 --> 00:19:44.869
to the event. And it's not fair to the athlete

00:19:44.869 --> 00:19:49.009
who, in this case, had to climb it again. That

00:19:49.009 --> 00:19:52.230
is a grueling proposition, both mentally and

00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:55.529
physically. I guess what comes to mind with dangerous

00:19:55.529 --> 00:19:58.410
belaying is that incident that had happened.

00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.339
I guess it was probably a few months ago now.

00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.079
Yeah, I've seen the training exercise where the

00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:07.420
belayer was talking to another coach and the

00:20:07.420 --> 00:20:10.140
climber fell to the ground. Yeah. Is that what

00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.200
happened? Yeah, that's sad and unfortunate. You

00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:15.220
see at the beginning of that video, if we're

00:20:15.220 --> 00:20:18.119
talking about the same one, a belayer belaying

00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.859
with a gree -gree and another person comes into

00:20:20.859 --> 00:20:23.740
the frame and they began talking. And then at

00:20:23.740 --> 00:20:26.299
some point you just see splat. And it really,

00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:29.650
really... It's sad for everyone involved, and

00:20:29.650 --> 00:20:32.869
I did not immediately throw any blame to anyone,

00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:35.769
but I'm kind of a nerd, and so when I'm belaying

00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:38.369
someone at practice, it's pretty much the same

00:20:38.369 --> 00:20:42.069
belay I'm giving them in a competition. If someone

00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:43.910
comes and tries to talk to me, I'll say, not

00:20:43.910 --> 00:20:49.049
now. Yeah, decking is the worst. Of course it's

00:20:49.049 --> 00:20:50.650
the worst. Decking from height is the worst.

00:20:50.750 --> 00:20:52.650
I've seen it happen. I've been at comps where

00:20:52.650 --> 00:21:00.019
it's happened. It throws a real dark, heavy blanket

00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:03.619
over the entire affair. And it is, you know,

00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:06.180
for the most part, if you deck someone in a competition,

00:21:06.500 --> 00:21:09.480
that's basically the end of your career. You

00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.759
become essentially unbookable because no one's

00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:15.920
going to want to have you with that rep. I've

00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.240
had people that have close calls and like softer

00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.779
decks that have been put into kind of a retraining.

00:21:23.370 --> 00:21:25.869
regime to get back to that place and it messes

00:21:25.869 --> 00:21:29.049
with the belayer too you know well yeah i think

00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:32.150
in my last interview with noah he mentioned that

00:21:32.150 --> 00:21:35.990
soft decks are sometimes like inevitable yeah

00:21:35.990 --> 00:21:39.509
no you nailed it if if a soft deck basically

00:21:39.509 --> 00:21:42.150
means someone has come to the floor but very

00:21:42.150 --> 00:21:45.529
very softly because it was controlled if someone's

00:21:45.529 --> 00:21:47.710
pulling from the second to the third clip well

00:21:47.710 --> 00:21:50.549
we're giving rope and if they miss that clip

00:21:50.549 --> 00:21:56.369
and fall You have to be able to run that out,

00:21:56.410 --> 00:22:00.109
pull that out, have enough, know the rope in

00:22:00.109 --> 00:22:02.269
your system to control that, and they may touch

00:22:02.269 --> 00:22:05.789
the ground. I had one at Youth Nationals three

00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:08.789
years ago, and the person came down, and he said,

00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:14.089
whoa, thanks. And then I walked by the corral

00:22:14.089 --> 00:22:15.869
of setters, and they were all clapping, which

00:22:15.869 --> 00:22:19.089
was very kind. They saw what happened. They saw

00:22:19.089 --> 00:22:22.609
what it took for me not to. This was a hard one,

00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:25.430
too, because there was basically these huge volumes

00:22:25.430 --> 00:22:28.750
at face level. So I had to bring him under that.

00:22:28.869 --> 00:22:32.569
So it was kind of a soft deck, but it was controlled.

00:22:32.690 --> 00:22:36.829
And, you know, some parents or some spectators

00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:40.109
may not understand that a person coming to the

00:22:40.109 --> 00:22:44.299
floor. was not only inevitable, but the right

00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:47.940
choice. But it's the uncontrolled, either slammed

00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:50.880
into the wall or slammed into the floor, that

00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:55.700
are real career breakers. You've seen that at

00:22:55.700 --> 00:22:59.259
competitions? Yeah. Oh, jeez. I have. One of

00:22:59.259 --> 00:23:01.700
the worst things you can be as a belayer is cocky.

00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.430
I've had belayers who... want to emulate their

00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:09.910
favorite TV belayer and do some things stylistically

00:23:09.910 --> 00:23:12.210
that are beyond their control. And I've seen

00:23:12.210 --> 00:23:16.789
athletes drop to the floor. There was one at

00:23:16.789 --> 00:23:18.970
an event a couple of years ago where the belayer

00:23:18.970 --> 00:23:23.869
was a little cocky and the person fell and they

00:23:23.869 --> 00:23:26.009
couldn't control it. Well, they not only got

00:23:26.009 --> 00:23:31.190
third -degree burns on their hands, but the athlete

00:23:31.190 --> 00:23:35.220
was injured. And there's nothing... anyone wants

00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.079
is anyone injured athlete or Blair or volunteer

00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:43.839
because it's just it's sad it's it's it's sad

00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.319
especially when there are mechanisms in place

00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.099
and training in place to mitigate some of that

00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.279
hazard You mentioned you belayed at World Champs

00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.799
in 2023 and also the Copper World Cup, two super

00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:01.339
big events. Do you feel extra pressure or stress

00:24:01.339 --> 00:24:03.380
when you're belaying at these like World Cup

00:24:03.380 --> 00:24:07.779
level events? There is a, you know, you fly a

00:24:07.779 --> 00:24:10.299
big chunk around the world, you wake up and you

00:24:10.299 --> 00:24:12.559
go to the venue and there's that little voice

00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:16.720
saying. can you still do this and then you get

00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.339
in the flow you get your processes together you

00:24:19.339 --> 00:24:21.400
resort to your training and it's like oh yeah

00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.019
i'm really good at this and other people see

00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:25.599
it and they're like wow you're really good at

00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:28.240
this we've never met you i don't speak your language

00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:32.000
but hey nice belang uh there is pressure there's

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.920
pressure for any there's pressure for any event

00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.819
there's additional pressure for any broadcast

00:24:36.819 --> 00:24:39.119
event there's any there's additional pressure

00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:42.880
for any championship event and you know ifsc

00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.819
world cup and world championships are some of

00:24:45.819 --> 00:24:49.240
the biggest so i'm trying to get like a different

00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:52.180
perspective on uh the world cups and the world

00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:55.460
champs uh since you're kind of in the behind

00:24:55.460 --> 00:24:58.720
the scenes area a lot so as a belayer are you

00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.140
allowed in iso while they're warming up and stuff

00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.359
the belayer first interacts with the with the

00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.799
with the athletes in the call zone. So that's

00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.359
where they come out of ISO and they sit in chairs

00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:12.740
and they tie in and they continue their preparations.

00:25:13.220 --> 00:25:16.819
It's kind of a sacred place. And, you know, the

00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:19.519
right belay team will not start talking them

00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:23.119
up, talking to the athletes like fans. Hey, you

00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.000
know, I've seen you and, you know, can I get

00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.920
your autograph? Yeah. It's a place where the

00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:29.819
first thing I'm going to say to an athlete is,

00:25:29.859 --> 00:25:32.940
hi, I'm Ty, I'm your belayer. I've already looked

00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:36.009
over their system. But I will say, your harness

00:25:36.009 --> 00:25:38.869
looks great, your knot looks great. I will show

00:25:38.869 --> 00:25:41.289
them my side of their system, show them that

00:25:41.289 --> 00:25:44.470
my carabiner is locked, and I'll give additional

00:25:44.470 --> 00:25:46.869
information like, when it's your time to climb,

00:25:46.990 --> 00:25:48.869
I will walk with you out to the field of play.

00:25:49.009 --> 00:25:51.309
I may even say, if it's warranted, I'm going

00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:54.230
to start on your left or right or whatever. But

00:25:54.230 --> 00:25:57.089
other than that, other than 15 seconds, I'm not

00:25:57.089 --> 00:26:02.259
talking to the athletes. Some athletes will engage

00:26:02.259 --> 00:26:04.539
a Blair. Most are just very focused and very

00:26:04.539 --> 00:26:08.019
quiet. They may talk among themselves. But there

00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:10.119
are times when an athlete will engage a Blair.

00:26:10.180 --> 00:26:13.660
Like one of my best memories is at Copra where,

00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:19.079
you know, Jesse Pills looks over in semifinals

00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:21.460
and goes, hey, do you remember belaying me in

00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:23.960
Birmingham? I'm like, yes, I do. And she goes,

00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.400
cool. And that was it. That was our discussion.

00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:30.380
Good discussion. Any, like, things you've seen

00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:34.019
from, I guess, like, the ISO area or in between,

00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:37.220
like, the call zone and getting out into the

00:26:37.220 --> 00:26:41.319
stage that stand out to you? Yeah, very famous

00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:42.980
athletes showing up to the call zone without

00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:47.039
their harnesses. And it's like, you know, you

00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.079
could tie in now, but you don't have a harness.

00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.519
You know, very light and fun and, oh, gosh, and

00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.819
they run away and they come back. But it's also

00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:58.589
my job to help them chill out, you know. I'm

00:26:58.589 --> 00:27:00.750
in no hurry. We're doing this early. Take your

00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:04.410
time. Put your harness on. There was a elite

00:27:04.410 --> 00:27:08.029
championship finals in the U .S. where, you know,

00:27:08.029 --> 00:27:10.269
a big production thing, you know, the producers

00:27:10.269 --> 00:27:12.349
would say, come on. They'd open a curtain. We'd

00:27:12.349 --> 00:27:14.829
walk out and the athlete would start climbing.

00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:18.970
Well, I came to do my buddy check with my athlete

00:27:18.970 --> 00:27:21.349
and I'm like, you know, we're in no hurry, but

00:27:21.349 --> 00:27:23.849
you've tied your rope through the handle of the

00:27:23.849 --> 00:27:26.410
rope bag. So take your, it's like, oh my gosh,

00:27:26.470 --> 00:27:29.059
oh my gosh. It's like, no. It's okay. Take your

00:27:29.059 --> 00:27:32.319
time. We are in no hurry. The curtain opens,

00:27:32.500 --> 00:27:34.220
the production people are waving, and I'm like,

00:27:34.299 --> 00:27:37.579
one second. So we came out a little late, but

00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:41.900
I hope we brought the anxiety down a little bit.

00:27:41.900 --> 00:27:44.940
This was the same championship where I had been

00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.720
assured that all of the ropes had been flaked

00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:51.660
between rounds, and I got out with Jesse Gruber,

00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:53.700
and before he got on the wall, I pulled out a

00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:57.460
knot. And the rope, my rope handler ran out and

00:27:57.460 --> 00:27:59.920
he's like, a knot, a knot. I'm like, okay. And

00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:02.559
I don't know why I did this, but I remember,

00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.160
and you could see it on the video. I turned to

00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.819
the judges and I said, I did this. I made the

00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:10.859
timeout sign. There's no timeout sign in climbing.

00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.920
I said, timeout. And I looked at the knot and

00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:16.799
I pulled it open and I put it over Jesse and

00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.420
he just walked through it and the knot was gone.

00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:22.559
And the best feeling was the athletes who are

00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.319
already in kiss and cry. Just started clapping

00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.339
like that was cool. And then he got up on the

00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:31.539
wall and he won the cup. But it's things like

00:28:31.539 --> 00:28:35.119
that that perhaps a belayer with less experience

00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:38.940
may get a little panicky over or may think about

00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:43.390
it as it's as as. The climber is climbing. I

00:28:43.390 --> 00:28:46.190
always say you have to be a little sociopathic

00:28:46.190 --> 00:28:50.630
and put a firewall between your emotions and

00:28:50.630 --> 00:28:53.150
the skills that you bring to this. Yeah, I could

00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:56.390
see you being like a calming presence. So I think

00:28:56.390 --> 00:28:59.730
it does suit you. I try to be, and a lot of the

00:28:59.730 --> 00:29:03.109
people that have gotten the highest in this activity

00:29:03.109 --> 00:29:06.430
are, it's like firefighters when they get to

00:29:06.430 --> 00:29:08.529
the scene. You don't see them like rushing around.

00:29:08.690 --> 00:29:11.819
They walk. They do what they need to do and they

00:29:11.819 --> 00:29:13.900
resort to their training. Not to say that we're

00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:16.099
anywhere near as important as a firefighter,

00:29:16.099 --> 00:29:20.740
but there's that, there's that, there's a slowing

00:29:20.740 --> 00:29:23.980
down of the mind and of the body to, to, to do

00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:26.839
this right. And part of that is to show the athlete

00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:29.559
that you're not freaking out. Yeah. And I've

00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:32.910
seen layers freak out. Do athletes ever give

00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:35.970
you specific requests for how they want their

00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:38.549
belay to be handled? Please excuse this brief

00:29:38.549 --> 00:29:40.490
intermission, but if you're interested in deleted

00:29:40.490 --> 00:29:42.450
scenes from this episode where we hear about

00:29:42.450 --> 00:29:44.970
the hardest belays he's had to do, his thoughts

00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:47.750
on wearing helmets in competition, and more,

00:29:47.930 --> 00:29:50.329
do consider helping support this podcast on Patreon.

00:29:50.769 --> 00:29:53.369
Some other perks include a membership pin shipped

00:29:53.369 --> 00:29:56.089
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00:29:56.289 --> 00:29:58.950
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00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:01.279
more to come. The proceeds go up. back into the

00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.740
podcast to help me break even, and they help

00:30:03.740 --> 00:30:06.660
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00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:09.339
like to help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.619
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:30:12.619 --> 00:30:15.319
to the show. Yeah, they do. There are people

00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.779
that have either been dropped before or just

00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:21.019
do not like the experience of following. They'll

00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:24.119
say, can you lower me really slowly? Sure, of

00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:26.720
course. That's no problem. There's athletes where

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.180
you get to the wall. One of the things we try

00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:33.000
to do is vet these climbs to know which is the

00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.319
most likely side an athlete will make that first

00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.240
clip. So we will put the rope on their hip with

00:30:39.240 --> 00:30:40.960
just a little bit of pressure so they know where

00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.460
the rope is. Some athletes will say, can you

00:30:43.460 --> 00:30:46.380
start on the other side? Sure, no problem. But

00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.880
the first opportunity was to give them the same

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.579
experience I gave everyone else. So they can

00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:53.220
call an audible and say, can you start on the

00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:56.579
other side? It may look ridiculous as we do this

00:30:56.579 --> 00:30:58.980
do -si -do on the field of play. But if that's

00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:01.400
what they want, that's fine. At some youth qualifying

00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:04.619
events, an athlete will throw the rhythm off

00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:06.299
a little bit by throwing the rope over their

00:31:06.299 --> 00:31:09.700
shoulder or putting it between their legs. You

00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:13.480
know, over the shoulder is not common in competition

00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.799
climbing. They typically get to a point and they'll

00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.779
drop it to exactly where we wanted it to be in

00:31:20.779 --> 00:31:22.940
the first place. But between the legs, it's just

00:31:22.940 --> 00:31:24.619
dangerous. You don't want them falling on one,

00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:27.289
two, sometimes three because they will... They

00:31:27.289 --> 00:31:29.849
split themselves directly in half and will have

00:31:29.849 --> 00:31:31.650
to get... You don't want to fall on the rope

00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:34.970
between your legs. We call it flossing. Oh, okay.

00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:39.309
I do not lead climb enough to know what the issue

00:31:39.309 --> 00:31:41.690
is. Most comp athletes will keep it to one side

00:31:41.690 --> 00:31:43.890
or the other. You don't want to fall with that

00:31:43.890 --> 00:31:47.269
between their legs. You could end up with just

00:31:47.269 --> 00:31:50.789
a rope burn on your legs or it could be more

00:31:50.789 --> 00:31:53.430
serious pain and or damage. And I've seen it

00:31:53.430 --> 00:31:56.849
happen. And it's not great. Yeah, are there any

00:31:56.849 --> 00:32:00.289
athletes who climb in a way that you find difficult

00:32:00.289 --> 00:32:05.130
to belay? Yes, some athletes. And the benefit

00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:08.970
of doing what I do at the levels that I do it

00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:13.069
is you see, you're the closest to seeing some

00:32:13.069 --> 00:32:16.750
of the most beautiful climbing on the planet.

00:32:16.829 --> 00:32:20.049
Just gorgeous climbing, incredible feats of strength,

00:32:20.210 --> 00:32:24.880
body movement that... is unbelievable. And some

00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:26.380
people look like they're going to fall every

00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:29.519
move. And as a player, you're trying to be cool,

00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:31.519
but you're like, Oh, your body is reflectively

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:33.660
like just jumping at, Oh, they're good. Oh no,

00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:36.160
they didn't fall. And you know, there's a couple

00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.119
of climbers where we've discussed among ourselves

00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.299
that we have nicknames for that. It's just like,

00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:44.880
they look like they're going to fall on every

00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:50.960
move and it's hilarious. And, you know, backstage,

00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.440
we just like laugh at each other, like really

00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.099
had you working out there. So what's worse, someone

00:32:57.099 --> 00:32:58.740
who looks like they're always going to fall or

00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:00.500
someone where you have no idea when they're about

00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:02.619
to fall? I think someone that looks like they're

00:33:02.619 --> 00:33:05.000
going to fall on every move because it starts,

00:33:05.059 --> 00:33:08.640
you start using resources both mentally and physically

00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.700
to prepare for that. Unexpected falls are what

00:33:12.700 --> 00:33:17.700
we train for. Weird. people that get themselves

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:22.339
into a bit of a weird trap and weird beta those

00:33:22.339 --> 00:33:26.759
are the hard ones to to mitigate because if you

00:33:26.759 --> 00:33:29.900
could mic me you or a thought balloon it would

00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:35.039
be like please make that clip or don't fall here

00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.539
you know because it's gonna it's gonna wrap you're

00:33:37.539 --> 00:33:40.920
gonna spin there's a lot of calculations yeah

00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.579
if they have to like climb down a bit or go backwards.

00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.940
There was a gnarly move. It was either qualies

00:33:49.940 --> 00:33:54.359
or semis at Bern where it was like third to fourth

00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:58.700
clip. The male athletes had to get onto a volume,

00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.779
turn around, come back out, and then move up

00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:05.559
to clip. And it's like there are portions of

00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.340
that where if you just fell, if you just slipped,

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.519
if it just happened, you're going head first

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:12.829
into the wall. headfirst backwards into the wall,

00:34:12.929 --> 00:34:15.750
unless I just throw slack at it, but then I'm

00:34:15.750 --> 00:34:18.530
bringing you down super low. And those are the

00:34:18.530 --> 00:34:21.570
constant calculations that we have to make while

00:34:21.570 --> 00:34:24.570
also looking at times like we're bored. I mean,

00:34:24.630 --> 00:34:28.550
I don't mean we are bored, but we're trying to

00:34:28.550 --> 00:34:31.070
show that things are under control to not only

00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:34.980
the athletes, but to the viewing audience. Are

00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.039
there any moves that routes that are set that

00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.960
you like kind of see and you're just like, oh,

00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:41.920
this is going to make things difficult? Yeah.

00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:47.480
Like, you know, a dino mid -climb, we're seeing

00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.539
more down climbing up over, down and then back

00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:57.099
up. So you may remember an event a couple of

00:34:57.099 --> 00:34:59.380
years ago. I forget where it was at, but the

00:34:59.380 --> 00:35:03.539
entire podium fell into the rope. It was Yanya,

00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:05.880
Brooke, and Jesse. Yes, I remember that. They

00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:08.179
all kicked into the rope. And, you know, there's

00:35:08.179 --> 00:35:10.820
a lot of debate on whether that was an aid to

00:35:10.820 --> 00:35:14.619
them or not, for them not to fall off. But it's

00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:17.679
moves like that that if you don't really take

00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.940
a look at it and talk to the setters who set

00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:25.340
it, it may catch you by surprise. So mid -route

00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:29.920
dinos. Huge volumes at the bottom where people

00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:33.619
might fall into and down climbing. I had this

00:35:33.619 --> 00:35:36.239
traverse move at championships in 2018 where

00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.159
it was like third to fourth clips that the climbers

00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:43.900
went up, traveled like eight feet across a volume,

00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:48.340
then up and then back to the clip. So there's

00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:51.019
a huge amount of slack as they traverse to get

00:35:51.019 --> 00:35:54.440
to the next move, to get back to the next clip.

00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.750
And those are hairy. And you have to be prepared

00:35:58.750 --> 00:36:01.750
for someone falling on those. So going back to

00:36:01.750 --> 00:36:04.510
that one where you said that the three podium

00:36:04.510 --> 00:36:08.969
finishers had got their, I think it was their

00:36:08.969 --> 00:36:11.030
leg caught in the rope? Yeah, they all caught

00:36:11.030 --> 00:36:13.769
their leg on the same rope. How would you have

00:36:13.769 --> 00:36:18.090
handled that differently? Not to criticize anyone,

00:36:18.250 --> 00:36:21.170
but it may have just been inevitable that that

00:36:21.170 --> 00:36:23.809
move ended up in that. But I think it's important

00:36:23.809 --> 00:36:30.489
that when... When the officials look at the event

00:36:30.489 --> 00:36:33.869
video, which will show the entire route, what

00:36:33.869 --> 00:36:35.969
happened with the belayer, what happened with

00:36:35.969 --> 00:36:39.050
the athlete, that there's sufficient rope that

00:36:39.050 --> 00:36:46.170
no one can call it aid. In Wuzhang, there was

00:36:46.170 --> 00:36:48.570
a very similar one where there was a down climb

00:36:48.570 --> 00:36:51.409
where there was controversy whether the climber

00:36:51.409 --> 00:36:54.349
was aided. It's just... If they look at the video,

00:36:54.429 --> 00:36:57.690
there has to be a bend in the rope from the ground

00:36:57.690 --> 00:37:00.969
to show that, nope, it was never aid, or same

00:37:00.969 --> 00:37:04.710
with short roping, that it was never short. You

00:37:04.710 --> 00:37:07.409
know, I had a climber in 2019, Open Championships,

00:37:07.550 --> 00:37:11.230
very famous climber, was up about 10 clips on

00:37:11.230 --> 00:37:13.610
a very high climb, pulling up the rope, pulling

00:37:13.610 --> 00:37:15.429
up the rope, and looked down at me like, what's

00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:18.309
the deal? And there was no way for me to say,

00:37:18.349 --> 00:37:21.489
you're standing on the rope. But if you look

00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:23.630
at the video, if there were to be an appeal,

00:37:23.889 --> 00:37:27.289
there was a definite break in my rope. It was

00:37:27.289 --> 00:37:29.730
not straight. There was no way I could short

00:37:29.730 --> 00:37:33.449
rope that climber. Okay. And then I think last

00:37:33.449 --> 00:37:36.210
thing about like IFSC comps that you've done,

00:37:36.369 --> 00:37:39.630
you also mentioned to me that you're an international

00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:43.969
speed starter. I have no idea what that is. Never

00:37:43.969 --> 00:37:46.050
heard of it. I'll just go with national speed

00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:49.630
starter, but I've done IFSC events. There's someone

00:37:49.630 --> 00:37:53.630
that says go. There's, it's not, you know, there's

00:37:53.630 --> 00:37:57.230
sit -walking. The device makes the three tones

00:37:57.230 --> 00:38:00.329
and then they go. But there's a human that is

00:38:00.329 --> 00:38:03.670
both traffic cop, come onto the field of play,

00:38:03.889 --> 00:38:08.269
you're clipped in, you're, you know, I'm the

00:38:08.269 --> 00:38:10.369
person that says at some of these bigger events,

00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:13.869
at your marks. And then once everyone's ready,

00:38:13.969 --> 00:38:17.190
I press the button for the tones to begin. Ready.

00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:22.760
Beep. I've been belaying for a million years,

00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.059
and I'm very comfortable with belaying. I'm a

00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:28.800
pretty good judge because I've worked at being

00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.960
a pretty good judge. There's nothing more harrowing

00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:38.219
than an IFSC broadcast speed finals because you

00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.739
have to do it right. Well, what could go wrong?

00:38:41.230 --> 00:38:43.869
The worst thing that could go wrong is you can

00:38:43.869 --> 00:38:47.110
lapse after doing this for hours, and then as

00:38:47.110 --> 00:38:49.489
both climbers are at the wall testing their pads,

00:38:49.670 --> 00:38:53.429
you start the sequence. And neither are clipped

00:38:53.429 --> 00:38:57.530
in, which is why I've added the words, the quiet

00:38:57.530 --> 00:39:00.929
words, A clipped, B clipped, as part of the routine

00:39:00.929 --> 00:39:02.929
to know that I've checked that they're clipped.

00:39:03.010 --> 00:39:07.469
And then I start the process. That could be a

00:39:07.469 --> 00:39:11.670
disaster because... I think the only way people

00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:13.769
have been seriously, seriously hurt with auto

00:39:13.769 --> 00:39:15.789
belay is when they were not clipped into the

00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:20.710
auto belay. Yeah. With the international speed

00:39:20.710 --> 00:39:23.789
timing equipment, if someone false start and

00:39:23.789 --> 00:39:27.070
false starts and they cannot run that race and

00:39:27.070 --> 00:39:29.809
the other person is still running it for time,

00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:33.769
you know, qualities, if you don't lock out the

00:39:33.769 --> 00:39:35.630
other lane, it will give a false start tone.

00:39:35.869 --> 00:39:37.730
And then the climber's like, okay, now you're

00:39:37.730 --> 00:39:40.880
getting in my headspace because You didn't do

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.619
it right. You just have to do it right every

00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:47.219
time. One of the hardest parts of it is when

00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:50.599
you say, at your marks, and they go to the wall,

00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:54.079
is determining when to start ready. Some climbers

00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.699
will go to the wall and visibly show they're

00:39:56.699 --> 00:39:59.840
ready. And some will kind of fidget and move

00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.360
and fidget and move. And I had one guy who would

00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:05.099
always touch his hair first. You have to learn

00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:07.239
those things very quickly and qualities to know

00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:11.019
how to start them appropriately. Huh. Okay. It's

00:40:11.019 --> 00:40:13.059
harrowing. Yeah, I never thought about that.

00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:14.820
Yeah, because some people have like their whole,

00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:17.420
their routines, I guess. Very common in speed

00:40:17.420 --> 00:40:20.159
climbing. They have their routines at assembly,

00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:22.539
which is the little line where they're clipped

00:40:22.539 --> 00:40:24.599
in and they do their chalking and their stretching

00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:26.619
and their breathing. And they have their routines

00:40:26.619 --> 00:40:29.519
at the wall. And I think a lot of that experience,

00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:34.389
you know, for the athletes that I coach. Almost

00:40:34.389 --> 00:40:36.989
every practice is like a comp simulation so that

00:40:36.989 --> 00:40:40.489
they can go to any venue, any wall and just do

00:40:40.489 --> 00:40:43.550
the same thing. Well, so have you ever messed

00:40:43.550 --> 00:40:46.869
it up? I have. I did make a mistake once. Oh,

00:40:46.949 --> 00:40:50.389
what happened there? Qualifying back in

00:40:50.389 --> 00:40:55.289
World Cup, a climber fall started. And then so

00:40:55.289 --> 00:40:58.010
the next climber got to run for time. And it

00:40:58.010 --> 00:41:01.230
was, again, referencing Jakob, when everyone

00:41:01.230 --> 00:41:04.260
who went to the Olympics had to do speed. I didn't

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:06.960
lock out the other lane. The example I just gave

00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:10.039
you. And I said, ready. And it gave false start

00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.679
tones. And he looked at me like. And that he's

00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:18.400
right. I blew it. So that was my mistake. Wait,

00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:20.579
so I guess I don't really understand what it

00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:23.599
means to lock it out. On the start module, you

00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:27.420
have to take that speed pad where there's no

00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:32.130
human offline. Else it will. It will give a false

00:41:32.130 --> 00:41:35.690
start tone. I see. So you have to run it as a

00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:41.010
one lane run as opposed to a race with two. So

00:41:41.010 --> 00:41:44.349
it was Jakob who was doing the speed? Yeah. He

00:41:44.349 --> 00:41:47.750
looked at me like, come on, Rook. Yeah. I've

00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:49.650
really been doing this for a long time. I'm so

00:41:49.650 --> 00:41:53.929
sorry. But you have to rebound. So did he get

00:41:53.929 --> 00:41:57.050
to... I guess go again? Yeah, I just had to reset

00:41:57.050 --> 00:42:00.070
it and then, you know, he did not forfeit anything.

00:42:00.190 --> 00:42:02.610
But for me, I don't want to get in anyone's head

00:42:02.610 --> 00:42:06.449
because of a mistake. You know, there are times

00:42:06.449 --> 00:42:09.090
when the worst is when the equipment just malfunctions

00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:11.869
and you have to bring both athletes back to assembly

00:42:11.869 --> 00:42:14.409
and then resolve quickly what that problem was.

00:42:14.550 --> 00:42:19.789
I've had, you know, the wireless modules misfire.

00:42:19.949 --> 00:42:23.369
I've had the wired modules lose power, you know.

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:27.079
You have to be very quick to make a decision

00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:31.460
and quick to improv. You know, I'm a speed starter,

00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.639
but I'm also a national speed judge, the person

00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.760
that inspects the wall, makes the adjustments

00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:41.159
to the holds, and really builds the whole program

00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:46.139
from the stager to the clippers to the starter.

00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:50.219
It's a lot of work. It's hard, and a lot of people

00:42:50.219 --> 00:42:52.460
have no idea what happens behind the scene at

00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:55.400
speed, and it's fascinating. Yeah, I'm now realizing

00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:57.480
I kind of have no idea what happens behind the

00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.420
scenes. Just enjoy the races. Yeah, yeah. If

00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:02.179
you don't have to think about it, it was well

00:43:02.179 --> 00:43:04.739
run. Yeah, true. I mean, what do you have to

00:43:04.739 --> 00:43:08.179
do as a judge? Well, there's the initial wall

00:43:08.179 --> 00:43:13.179
inspection. There's getting the team to function

00:43:13.179 --> 00:43:15.579
appropriately. Again, the stagers, the people

00:43:15.579 --> 00:43:18.139
that are lining everyone up and finding athletes

00:43:18.139 --> 00:43:21.539
to line up. The clippers, how they clip and how

00:43:21.539 --> 00:43:25.340
they function, but also to make determinations.

00:43:25.340 --> 00:43:28.599
So if something happens, you have to make a quick

00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:32.039
ruling. If both athletes fall, you have to bring

00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.119
them back and say, we're going to rerun this

00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.969
race. The most heartbreaking one is someone that

00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:40.690
false starts in a knockout round or in a finals

00:43:40.690 --> 00:43:43.750
round. They false start in a finals round. Hey,

00:43:43.809 --> 00:43:46.070
that was it. Show's over. No, that sucks. It

00:43:46.070 --> 00:43:49.650
sucks. Which is why I'm hoping a probationary

00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:51.710
false start makes its way back into the rules

00:43:51.710 --> 00:43:55.769
because that's a really satisfying, really unsatisfying

00:43:55.769 --> 00:43:58.769
finals when the last race is someone false starts

00:43:58.769 --> 00:44:01.829
and that's it. All right. So in terms of non

00:44:01.829 --> 00:44:04.730
-IFSC comps, you've been in the scene for a long

00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:07.449
time. Are there any comp experiences that have

00:44:07.449 --> 00:44:12.230
stood out to you outside of IFSC? World Games

00:44:12.230 --> 00:44:16.650
in Birmingham in 2022 was a non -IFSC event,

00:44:16.769 --> 00:44:20.550
but it was run by the IFSC. Like the Olympics,

00:44:20.750 --> 00:44:25.289
it's... It's managed by the IFSC. World Games

00:44:25.289 --> 00:44:28.829
in Birmingham was amazing because it was a multi

00:44:28.829 --> 00:44:33.769
-sport event where climbing was one of the events

00:44:33.769 --> 00:44:41.090
in this huge, huge multi -event, multi -venue

00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:47.150
sports extravaganza. And I think we were closest

00:44:47.150 --> 00:44:50.449
to like... beach volleyball or something like

00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:56.989
that. But it was staffed by USA Climbing officials,

00:44:57.190 --> 00:44:59.909
but there was only four of us. So there's four

00:44:59.909 --> 00:45:02.869
of us from USA Climbing plus local volunteers

00:45:02.869 --> 00:45:07.469
managed by the IFSC. So for that event, myself

00:45:07.469 --> 00:45:11.349
and my colleagues got to do everything. There's

00:45:11.349 --> 00:45:15.510
four of us. For speed, we had John was the speed

00:45:15.510 --> 00:45:19.659
judge. Steve and Carolyn were Clippers and I

00:45:19.659 --> 00:45:22.980
was the starter. For Boulders, for Boulder Qualies,

00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.280
we were all the primary judges with a volunteer

00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.980
as secondary judges for Boulder Qualies and finals,

00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.739
in fact. And for lead, John and Carolyn were

00:45:32.739 --> 00:45:35.739
the judges and Steve and I were the belayers.

00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.559
So it was great. It was the best thing. And it

00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:41.440
was outside in Birmingham, both during the day

00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:45.539
and at night. It was amazing. Big crowds, high

00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:49.179
stakes, lots of dignitaries there in the climbing

00:45:49.179 --> 00:45:53.059
world. It was amazing. And it was hard. And it

00:45:53.059 --> 00:45:56.920
was sweaty. Yeah, it sounds chaotic. It was very

00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.900
well run. I guess fewer people to coordinate

00:45:59.900 --> 00:46:01.960
makes it a little bit easier. Fewer people to

00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:06.019
coordinate and just, you know, the people that

00:46:06.019 --> 00:46:09.900
ran it for the IFSC, the judges, and shout out

00:46:09.900 --> 00:46:14.489
to Hazel, the multi. sport uh event manager it

00:46:14.489 --> 00:46:17.889
was it was it was wholly satisfying just a lot

00:46:17.889 --> 00:46:21.289
of work yeah no breaks means no time to stop

00:46:21.289 --> 00:46:29.570
and worry about things 2020 three uh national

00:46:29.570 --> 00:46:32.800
team trials was like that we had a small ballet

00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.619
crew who were all also very good judges and all

00:46:36.619 --> 00:46:39.679
were speed and it was it was olympic format so

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:42.059
there was basically two rounds for everything

00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:46.679
and we it was non -stop work it was great was

00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:49.139
that in austin that was in austin oh i think

00:46:49.139 --> 00:46:52.500
i was there for that i was just uh volunteering

00:46:52.500 --> 00:46:55.440
in like iso or something like that also you probably

00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.909
we probably past each other at some point oh

00:46:58.909 --> 00:47:01.730
yeah no i definitely saw you i like sort of knew

00:47:01.730 --> 00:47:03.989
who you were for some reason i mean i guess you're

00:47:03.989 --> 00:47:07.269
around so you're very noticeable so it was uh

00:47:07.269 --> 00:47:10.449
yeah yeah we're at a moment now where there's

00:47:10.449 --> 00:47:14.730
more visibility on blairs and belaying even though

00:47:14.730 --> 00:47:18.369
we're trying to be as invisible as possible well

00:47:18.369 --> 00:47:21.170
why is there more eyes on the blairs nowadays

00:47:21.170 --> 00:47:25.659
because it has gone In the U .S. and in some

00:47:25.659 --> 00:47:29.099
ways IFSC, it is very much more professionalized.

00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:31.579
It's not, you know, the history of belaying for

00:47:31.579 --> 00:47:34.639
USA Climbing was it was like the four dads in

00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.599
the parking lot that said, well, we'll take care

00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.320
of everything. And, you know, now there's a program

00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:43.019
behind it. There's endorsement levels and evaluations.

00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:46.760
And the one big lesson, and here's your hot take,

00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.369
the one big lesson is no longer. Can women only

00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:54.849
belay women or not belay? But they can belay

00:47:54.849 --> 00:47:59.110
any round, any athlete. And that's because once

00:47:59.110 --> 00:48:03.030
you learn the technique, the myth of weight differential

00:48:03.030 --> 00:48:07.550
is completely gone. And my take is some of the

00:48:07.550 --> 00:48:11.070
best belayers in the world are women in some

00:48:11.070 --> 00:48:14.369
aspects because they have to be better in order

00:48:14.369 --> 00:48:16.489
to break through in some of these circles. They

00:48:16.489 --> 00:48:19.860
have to be better than a lot of the men. A lot

00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:23.320
of women just get it. And, you know, going back

00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.960
to 2019, Katie Kayser was a real trailblazer

00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:31.679
for women belaying any round, any athlete. Met

00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.280
this young woman, Roe Del Rio, that, you know,

00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:39.900
this was a youth regionals, and she did all the

00:48:39.900 --> 00:48:44.460
A -men, all the junior men. And we just watched

00:48:44.460 --> 00:48:47.059
because her technique was so sound, she never

00:48:47.059 --> 00:48:50.260
got thrown into the air. all soft catches. And

00:48:50.260 --> 00:48:53.039
now we have people like C -Lad and Megan who

00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.159
are perhaps the best belayers on the planet.

00:48:56.300 --> 00:49:00.199
This woman coming up in this area, Sawyer, maybe

00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.099
the best belayer I've ever met. Well, I didn't

00:49:02.099 --> 00:49:04.539
even know that that was an issue or that there

00:49:04.539 --> 00:49:07.179
was an idea that women could only belay women.

00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:08.599
Well, well, well, little lady, you can't belay

00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:12.099
the men. They're too heavy. First, there are

00:49:12.099 --> 00:49:15.599
women that are absolute, just like, you know,

00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:19.000
physical specimens that may... way more than

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.480
some of the men. It does not matter. It's not

00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.420
a weight thing. You'll still see some international

00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:27.739
competitions where only the women are belaying

00:49:27.739 --> 00:49:30.679
women and only the men are belaying men. It doesn't

00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:33.340
matter. In fact, we've been doing a lot of rounds

00:49:33.340 --> 00:49:36.480
where the women are deliberately put in the men's

00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.460
round and the men belay the women just to say,

00:49:39.539 --> 00:49:46.820
hey, this isn't a mystery. We've disproven this.

00:49:48.010 --> 00:49:50.429
Oh, and Eliza. Eliza's one of the greatest players.

00:49:50.590 --> 00:49:54.110
She may be retired at this point, but she's absolutely

00:49:54.110 --> 00:49:56.650
amazing. So was it just like weight difference

00:49:56.650 --> 00:49:58.269
concern? Well, that was the line. Like you would

00:49:58.269 --> 00:50:00.710
get thrown in the air? Get thrown in the air

00:50:00.710 --> 00:50:05.409
and you can't control it because, you know, we've

00:50:05.409 --> 00:50:09.469
disproven it. Weight difference is the reason

00:50:09.469 --> 00:50:13.809
why some people use the ohm. you know, descenders

00:50:13.809 --> 00:50:16.110
and things like that. But for competition, where

00:50:16.110 --> 00:50:20.650
there's a high level of skill, you know, I'm

00:50:20.650 --> 00:50:23.730
tall, but I'm not heavy. You know, there are

00:50:23.730 --> 00:50:25.809
lots of men and women athletes that probably

00:50:25.809 --> 00:50:28.329
weigh more than me. It's not a weight thing.

00:50:28.429 --> 00:50:31.650
It's purely a technique thing. It's a skills

00:50:31.650 --> 00:50:34.969
thing. And if you have the skills, you pay the

00:50:34.969 --> 00:50:41.170
bills. Okay. Yeah, good phrase. So I guess if

00:50:41.170 --> 00:50:42.829
there is a big weight difference, what do you

00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:45.530
need to do or what do you need to take into consideration?

00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:47.670
You know, there's nothing you do differently.

00:50:48.469 --> 00:50:54.050
We use ATCs and we use what we call dynamic rope

00:50:54.050 --> 00:50:56.829
control, which it used to be called slip belay.

00:50:57.230 --> 00:50:59.869
Well, slip belay doesn't really sound like something

00:50:59.869 --> 00:51:02.750
that's very safe. So we came up with the words

00:51:02.750 --> 00:51:08.449
dynamic rope control, DRC. As someone is starting

00:51:08.449 --> 00:51:11.349
to fall, you start their descent. So they fall

00:51:11.349 --> 00:51:17.929
into a soft, even cloud of joy. If it's low,

00:51:18.090 --> 00:51:20.510
you may have to lock off and you may get jerked

00:51:20.510 --> 00:51:22.849
or pulled a little bit. But if you know how to

00:51:22.849 --> 00:51:25.050
handle it, you know how to handle it, man or

00:51:25.050 --> 00:51:28.510
woman. It's a skills and experience deal. And

00:51:28.510 --> 00:51:31.329
before I forget, you know, I've talked a lot

00:51:31.329 --> 00:51:33.969
about lead and speed, but pair climbing is where

00:51:33.969 --> 00:51:36.820
it's at, man. Right, yeah. These are athletes

00:51:36.820 --> 00:51:39.179
and a lot of people have not gotten to the point

00:51:39.179 --> 00:51:43.079
where they appreciate the strength, determination

00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:47.659
and skill of these athletes. It's just, it can

00:51:47.659 --> 00:51:52.159
be super hard to belay. You have to be, you know,

00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:55.559
these are people that your technique comes into

00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:59.559
play because some of these athletes may not be

00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.400
able to absorb the impact of a wall or of course

00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.619
a deck, whether it's because of their... you

00:52:05.619 --> 00:52:09.539
know, missing a limb, low powered, or, you know,

00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:12.519
if you don't have both of your legs, your weight,

00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.119
your center of balance is in a really different

00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:19.659
place for climbing. And so the belaying, we like

00:52:19.659 --> 00:52:24.530
to, you know, belayer Steve likes to call. paraclimbing

00:52:24.530 --> 00:52:27.829
belaying like fly fishing you're so attuned to

00:52:27.829 --> 00:52:30.269
the touch of the rope and what's happening on

00:52:30.269 --> 00:52:33.630
the wall and with the dual belay system the the

00:52:33.630 --> 00:52:39.449
two belay system it's super super important to

00:52:39.449 --> 00:52:42.309
get both sides right you're going to see more

00:52:42.309 --> 00:52:45.090
of the dual belay system as they put the younger

00:52:45.090 --> 00:52:48.929
climbers the top rope climbers on big overhang

00:52:48.929 --> 00:52:52.400
walls And some of that is to prepare the younger

00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:55.159
climbers who are still top roping to climb these

00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:00.179
big overhang walls. But with the dual belay,

00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.139
it prevents, where it's very overhung, it prevents

00:53:04.139 --> 00:53:07.199
the climber from, if ever just top rope, from

00:53:07.199 --> 00:53:10.940
falling to the ground because of the slack involved.

00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:14.119
But it also prevents the swing out, swing back

00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.679
to the wall. There was a stigma with it, and

00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:19.940
some pair of climbers were like, We'd rather

00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:25.219
just have a single top rope. But I think we're

00:53:25.219 --> 00:53:28.420
going to see it more and more, especially with

00:53:28.420 --> 00:53:31.679
the younger top rope only climbers. And there

00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:34.539
are some instances where this has already happened.

00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.539
So it's super great. Why do some para climbers

00:53:37.539 --> 00:53:41.039
want only a single top rope? They want the same

00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.619
experience as any climber is going to have. Not

00:53:43.619 --> 00:53:45.960
to be, oh, we have to have this helping hand

00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.519
with the dual belay. Well, it's more just...

00:53:48.750 --> 00:53:52.389
to protect all the athletes because a lot of

00:53:52.389 --> 00:53:57.710
these big overhung walls aren't intended for

00:53:57.710 --> 00:54:02.090
top rope only. In fact, a lot of gyms will not

00:54:02.090 --> 00:54:04.110
let you top rope only some of these overhang

00:54:04.110 --> 00:54:06.989
walls because a low fall could put you into the

00:54:06.989 --> 00:54:09.349
floor. I didn't go into any paragliding questions

00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:12.570
because I had already learned a lot from my last

00:54:12.570 --> 00:54:14.750
episode with Noah, which I think people should

00:54:14.750 --> 00:54:17.409
check out if they want to hear more about that.

00:54:17.570 --> 00:54:20.869
I'd like to consider Noah as a prodigy of sorts,

00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:23.289
but he's also someone I have so much respect

00:54:23.289 --> 00:54:27.869
for as a caring human and as just a highly, highly

00:54:27.869 --> 00:54:30.900
skilled professional. Yeah, I know that Noah

00:54:30.900 --> 00:54:33.639
mentioned about belaying like, oh, like the leg

00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:36.420
amputees. They climb so fast because they're

00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:39.320
campusing up the wall and trying to get up there

00:54:39.320 --> 00:54:41.219
as fast as they can. They've continued to make

00:54:41.219 --> 00:54:44.820
those routes harder. So it's not as fast as it

00:54:44.820 --> 00:54:46.679
once was when it was basically just straight

00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:51.860
up into the air. But it was like back when we

00:54:51.860 --> 00:54:54.739
manually belayed speed climbing, you know? Oh,

00:54:54.739 --> 00:54:59.090
geez. Yeah. Eight second, six second speed climbing

00:54:59.090 --> 00:55:02.090
was extremely hard to do. Wait, how long ago

00:55:02.090 --> 00:55:07.090
was that? 2018, I think, was the last elite event

00:55:07.090 --> 00:55:10.010
where we had two person belay. And if you saw

00:55:10.010 --> 00:55:12.030
the real, there's a real rock with speed belaying

00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:16.650
where at that event, it was John Browser going,

00:55:16.869 --> 00:55:19.340
you know, six something seconds. One of the players

00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:22.139
missed a hand because you're playing this side

00:55:22.139 --> 00:55:23.860
of the Grigri like this, where you have someone

00:55:23.860 --> 00:55:25.599
else is pulling the rope through the other side

00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:28.079
of the Grigri. So it's four hands on the rope.

00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:33.000
But he missed a hand and fell over. So now I'm

00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:35.719
the starter standing and I see this huge loop

00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.099
of rope. Well, if he gets to the top, he's going

00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:42.139
to crash because there's too much rope. So instinctively,

00:55:42.139 --> 00:55:44.280
I dropped the speed starting module, grabbed

00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:46.909
the rope. He finished it. I got pulled over the

00:55:46.909 --> 00:55:49.650
PA system. I had burns in my hand. And I know

00:55:49.650 --> 00:55:52.630
some people who have lost, had shoulder injuries

00:55:52.630 --> 00:55:55.710
from grabbing a rope from a manual belay. So

00:55:55.710 --> 00:55:59.730
auto belays, that was the end of manual speed

00:55:59.730 --> 00:56:02.349
belaying. Oh my gosh. I need to see a video of

00:56:02.349 --> 00:56:07.190
that. Wow. I had no idea that they ever did speed

00:56:07.190 --> 00:56:09.650
climbing with manual belays. There was a time

00:56:09.650 --> 00:56:11.710
when auto belays were deemed to be too slow.

00:56:12.670 --> 00:56:17.219
But now that the times are... little over four

00:56:17.219 --> 00:56:20.380
seconds there's no way to do it manually was

00:56:20.380 --> 00:56:22.380
there ever a concern when doing it manually that

00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:25.639
you would be like aiding them by like going too

00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.219
fast especially if they like slip and fall yep

00:56:28.219 --> 00:56:35.059
yes yes yes yes uh aiding was a concern uh and

00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:37.599
if someone slipped then now you've caught them

00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.219
so you know then the adjudication is did they

00:56:40.219 --> 00:56:43.239
wait the rope was it a fall Auto belay really,

00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:47.360
really simplifies speed climbing. Yeah, geez.

00:56:47.659 --> 00:56:50.840
I mean, judges definitely had a big job for speed

00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:52.519
climbing back in the day then. Yeah, then they'd

00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:54.340
ask the belayer, hey, did they weight the rope?

00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:56.380
And it's like, I don't know. I was just trying

00:56:56.380 --> 00:56:59.300
to kick him off the floor. Geez, okay, interesting.

00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:02.860
But okay, we got to this from para climbing somehow.

00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.860
Are there any other things with para climbing

00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:10.920
belaying that surprised you when you, I guess,

00:57:10.940 --> 00:57:13.980
first started? When I first started, my first

00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:18.980
big paraclimbing event was 2019 Paraclimbing

00:57:18.980 --> 00:57:24.260
Championship. And one of the things that shocked

00:57:24.260 --> 00:57:29.099
me was it was considered to be a not elite event.

00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:31.519
So you didn't have a lot of the best people come

00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:34.380
out to support paraclimbing, which sucked because

00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:39.139
it... is an elite event. It is harder in some

00:57:39.139 --> 00:57:43.280
aspects to belay. So when we showed up for that,

00:57:43.300 --> 00:57:45.639
that was the first time they said, oh, you guys

00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:49.119
are here. This must be real, which was both flattering,

00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:51.199
but also disappointing that it hadn't received

00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:56.920
the amount of support it has. And also, and one

00:57:56.920 --> 00:57:58.679
of the things that paraclimbers hate are people

00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:02.940
that are like... Oh, they're so strong. No, they're

00:58:02.940 --> 00:58:05.599
the same dirt bags that we belay out at the crag

00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:10.159
and in the lead series. They don't want that.

00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:12.860
And a lot of paraclimbers don't want your help

00:58:12.860 --> 00:58:15.320
untying or unclipping. Just leave me alone and

00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:18.800
it's fine. That's cool. But yeah, I think we

00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:23.340
serve paraclimbing to the same standards and

00:58:23.340 --> 00:58:26.280
bring the same skilled personnel that we do for

00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:28.829
any event. And that was our goal. And anything

00:58:28.829 --> 00:58:32.530
specifically about belaying them that stood out?

00:58:32.849 --> 00:58:35.429
I guess you mentioned their center of gravity

00:58:35.429 --> 00:58:38.829
could be different. Center of gravity and just

00:58:38.829 --> 00:58:41.409
managing a dual belay system can be difficult.

00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:43.570
If you do it wrong, then now they're caught up

00:58:43.570 --> 00:58:45.769
in the rope and it's a whole different issue.

00:58:45.829 --> 00:58:49.750
They could fall and catch a prosthesis in the

00:58:49.750 --> 00:58:52.269
rope, which you don't want to happen. And one

00:58:52.269 --> 00:58:54.570
thing that I learned this year that I'd never

00:58:54.570 --> 00:58:58.260
really considered is that When I gave the example

00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:00.980
of the woman back in the day standing on the

00:59:00.980 --> 00:59:03.739
rope, well, she finally felt that she was standing

00:59:03.739 --> 00:59:06.199
on the rope. If you have a prosthetic leg, you

00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:07.940
don't feel that you're standing on the rope.

00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:11.860
You may not feel it as much. There may be less

00:59:11.860 --> 00:59:14.880
of a tactile, less tactile feedback that you're

00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:18.440
standing on a rope. And it happens. It's hard

00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.840
and you have to be thoughtful and experience

00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:24.780
counts. It can't just be some... person off.

00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:27.239
I've had judges tell me, well, it's just top

00:59:27.239 --> 00:59:30.559
rope belaying. No, it's not just top rope belaying.

00:59:30.619 --> 00:59:34.079
It's super hard top rope belaying with a partner

00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.579
on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. It is not easy

00:59:36.579 --> 00:59:39.300
out there to, uh, to play para climbing and put

00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:43.239
on that event. Um, okay. So you have been in

00:59:43.239 --> 00:59:46.320
the competition scene for quite a while, um,

00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:49.539
climbing for quite a while. How has the scene

00:59:49.539 --> 00:59:52.239
changed now that climbing is an Olympic sport

00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.380
and like para climbing? It's a Paralympic sport.

00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.500
Amazing that it's a Paralympic sport. I know

00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:00.500
there's some disappointment at the number of

01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:03.219
categories that got pushed through. But, you

01:00:03.219 --> 01:00:07.840
know, as with, you know, the other disciplines

01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.519
of climbing, it can evolve. And so maybe more

01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:13.219
will be included in the future. But the biggest

01:00:13.219 --> 01:00:17.719
thing that you're starting to see is how hungry

01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:21.179
slash thirsty people are to get part of that.

01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:24.300
Olympic action. And I don't mean just the athletes.

01:00:24.380 --> 01:00:26.519
Of course, the athletes are trying their hardest

01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.880
to make it as far as they can with a mix of very

01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.019
few people being wildly successful and a lot

01:00:32.019 --> 01:00:34.800
of people being wildly disappointed. But even

01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:37.099
behind the scenes with judging and belaying,

01:00:37.139 --> 01:00:41.460
I've had numerous people say, so how do I belay

01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:44.719
the Olympics? And my standard response is, no

01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:47.059
one you know will belay the Olympics because

01:00:47.059 --> 01:00:49.420
it's probably going to come down to four people.

01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.619
that may be invited for the Olympics, I'll be

01:00:56.619 --> 01:01:00.559
137 in 2028. So I'm probably not belaying the

01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:03.659
Olympics. I may not know who's going to belay

01:01:03.659 --> 01:01:05.159
the Olympics. It's one of those things where

01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.659
just, if that's your goal, you may want to reevaluate

01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:13.059
your goals. But if that's your goal, stay in

01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:15.380
the circuit, get as much work in as you can,

01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:17.900
and hopefully... Whoever's making that decision

01:01:17.900 --> 01:01:20.619
at the time, you may be among the people picking

01:01:20.619 --> 01:01:24.079
that. But my answer is, I don't know who's making

01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:26.500
that decision. I don't know who's going to do

01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:31.139
that. It could be anybody, probably not anybody

01:01:31.139 --> 01:01:34.780
we know. That's how few people that will do that.

01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:39.619
With any luck, I will be invited to do para -climbing,

01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:41.960
which I think would be my passion. But again,

01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:45.840
it's not something I'm either working toward.

01:01:46.460 --> 01:01:49.880
or hoping for. Whatever happens, happens. But

01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:53.739
it's made climbing to be very, very serious,

01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:55.840
and you see it trickling down from the elite

01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:58.780
athletes all the way down to the youth. Back

01:01:58.780 --> 01:02:01.719
in the day, in order to go to a regional championships,

01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:05.739
the qualification was you had to compete in two

01:02:05.739 --> 01:02:08.500
events, and that was your qualifier. Now you

01:02:08.500 --> 01:02:13.420
have to make a certain tier. With that, the stakes

01:02:13.420 --> 01:02:15.480
have become higher, the competition has become

01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.039
harder, and there's a little bit more of a parent

01:02:20.039 --> 01:02:23.019
influence and involvement. And these are the

01:02:23.019 --> 01:02:25.699
parents that we've criticized in climbing from,

01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:30.380
like, other sports. And not to disparage other

01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:33.820
sports, but there are hockey parents. I was a

01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:37.139
soccer coach. The parents, I had to tell the

01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:40.440
parents before every competition, before every...

01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:44.460
before every match, please don't coach from the

01:02:44.460 --> 01:02:46.460
sidelines. They're trying to listen to me and

01:02:46.460 --> 01:02:49.960
Coach Rob. But the parents, there's some parents

01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:52.380
that feel they know better. And I know it's stressful

01:02:52.380 --> 01:02:55.340
for them. And I know in some sports, the parents

01:02:55.340 --> 01:02:57.880
feel there are scholarships involved. And in

01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.800
some sports, parents feel that they can ascend

01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:05.139
to the Olympics. Again, significantly zero people

01:03:05.139 --> 01:03:09.340
we know will get this opportunity. It's that

01:03:09.340 --> 01:03:12.420
limited a pool. You can see it sometimes with

01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:14.699
some of the parents. I'm not criticizing every

01:03:14.699 --> 01:03:17.960
parent, but some parents get very intense. Some

01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.639
athletes, even young, young athletes get very,

01:03:20.739 --> 01:03:23.619
very intense to a point where there's a question

01:03:23.619 --> 01:03:26.739
of how healthy this is. You know, D athletes,

01:03:27.059 --> 01:03:31.280
which are the U13 or U14, you know, D athletes

01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:33.119
used to go to national championships. And it

01:03:33.119 --> 01:03:36.599
was a big outcry when they took D out of nationals

01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:41.539
and put it into the... climbing festival or whatever

01:03:41.539 --> 01:03:45.519
that's called now but the the the the thinking

01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:48.119
from the committee was it's a lot of pressure

01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:52.260
to put on children that you have to go to a national

01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:55.159
championship and then you know make it the next

01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:58.280
year and make it the next year and so many young

01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:02.659
athletes who are very successful in their under

01:04:02.659 --> 01:04:06.340
15 under 17 you know they they grow their body

01:04:06.340 --> 01:04:09.739
changes their their interests change they may

01:04:09.739 --> 01:04:12.719
not find that same level of success. And it's

01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:15.159
hard on families. It's hard on the athletes.

01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:17.639
It's hard on the parents. You know, parents who

01:04:17.639 --> 01:04:20.719
are saying, you know, we won, we did this. It's

01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:23.780
like, no, your kid did that. You know, you can

01:04:23.780 --> 01:04:25.980
support your kid without it being part of you.

01:04:26.599 --> 01:04:32.019
And I'm not being harsh on all parents. It's

01:04:32.019 --> 01:04:36.300
the few that we've all seen that really make

01:04:36.300 --> 01:04:40.139
it a... Overly intense, overly precious, and

01:04:40.139 --> 01:04:44.199
overly stressful activity at times. While your

01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.320
daughter was growing up, what was the youth scene

01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:50.719
like then? It was back when you just had to do

01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:56.719
two events to get into regionals. But she became

01:04:56.719 --> 01:05:00.420
super serious and pretty good. I'm not going

01:05:00.420 --> 01:05:03.559
to say she was the best, but she was pretty good.

01:05:03.699 --> 01:05:09.920
She received... a bronze medal at Canadian nationals

01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:12.420
and speed one year. And she specialized in speed

01:05:12.420 --> 01:05:16.000
for a while, but it's a, it's a hard discipline

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:18.800
for those who specialize. You're putting a lot

01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:25.440
of eggs into a 10 second basket. And there's

01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:27.300
athletes that have traveled all the way around

01:05:27.300 --> 01:05:29.940
the world and fall started. And that's it. Or,

01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:33.800
you know, my daughter has missed the timer, you

01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:38.630
know, and that's it, you know, no time. Um, and

01:05:38.630 --> 01:05:43.329
there were people who, who, who burned out, but

01:05:43.329 --> 01:05:45.190
it's, you know, the same with the other disciplines

01:05:45.190 --> 01:05:51.010
too. It's, it can be taxing. And I like to hope

01:05:51.010 --> 01:05:55.050
that more athletes are able to have fun and still

01:05:55.050 --> 01:06:00.050
let climbing be fun. But there are a lot of athletes

01:06:00.050 --> 01:06:02.769
who are just really good. And yes, you know,

01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:04.920
in the elite series. For a lot of athletes, this

01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:07.360
is their job. This is their livelihood. This

01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:09.940
is what they do professionally. And that's great.

01:06:10.019 --> 01:06:15.840
I'd love to see it. But it's hard to see young

01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.460
athletes crying because they didn't make the

01:06:18.460 --> 01:06:22.079
cut. Sobbing in the corner because they didn't

01:06:22.079 --> 01:06:24.880
make the cut to go to semis or finals and have

01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:26.719
a parent hover over them and say, well, you should

01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:32.880
have climbed better. So uncool. So unsupportive.

01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:35.420
My wife is a developmental psychologist, you

01:06:35.420 --> 01:06:39.440
know, PhD. My background is social psychology.

01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:42.019
You know, we talk about what these impacts could

01:06:42.019 --> 01:06:46.460
be. And some of them are just not healthy. My

01:06:46.460 --> 01:06:50.679
child, you know, you had to be 16 at the time

01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:54.260
to go into the elite circuit, 16 during the competition

01:06:54.260 --> 01:06:57.559
year. So she was 15 when she left youth. And

01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.780
I asked her, she said, it's the parents. they're

01:07:00.780 --> 01:07:04.199
driving not hopefully not me because i continue

01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:07.039
to work with her transport her and support her

01:07:07.039 --> 01:07:09.619
but she's like just the stuff she's witnessed

01:07:09.619 --> 01:07:13.400
is just too hard to to have to witness continually

01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:17.300
and is it like also cutthroat even with i guess

01:07:17.300 --> 01:07:20.079
like other families like it can be family beef

01:07:20.079 --> 01:07:24.099
yeah all of that all of that has happened but

01:07:24.099 --> 01:07:26.340
she found the elite circuit to be more chill

01:07:26.340 --> 01:07:29.250
because There's a time when she was competing

01:07:29.250 --> 01:07:31.650
in the same comps as her coach, and they could

01:07:31.650 --> 01:07:35.090
just hang out and talk, and it was chill. And

01:07:35.090 --> 01:07:37.909
the collegiate scene, super chill. And the para

01:07:37.909 --> 01:07:42.590
-climbing scene, super chill and loving and supportive.

01:07:45.250 --> 01:07:49.230
But sometimes the youth and elite, bolder and

01:07:49.230 --> 01:07:54.659
youth and elite, lead. comps can be can be pretty

01:07:54.659 --> 01:07:57.300
intense and i've worked the most intense comps

01:07:57.300 --> 01:08:01.059
you know ntt is very intense elite and youth

01:08:01.059 --> 01:08:04.699
championships are very intense and that's that's

01:08:04.699 --> 01:08:08.760
the nature of competition but you know putting

01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:13.159
the olympics at the top of that pyramid has ratcheted

01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:15.780
up the intensity for everybody and i know some

01:08:15.780 --> 01:08:18.619
pro climbers who didn't make it it's altered

01:08:18.619 --> 01:08:22.050
their career trajectories they've gone on to

01:08:22.050 --> 01:08:24.869
other things a lot of them have gone on to just

01:08:24.869 --> 01:08:27.949
climb outdoors or or do other things which is

01:08:27.949 --> 01:08:30.489
fine and that's one of the thing i one of the

01:08:30.489 --> 01:08:32.609
things i've grown to appreciate the blank community

01:08:32.609 --> 01:08:36.550
is some people will go on to other things i'm

01:08:36.550 --> 01:08:39.609
done being a top blair i'm gonna go do something

01:08:39.609 --> 01:08:42.649
else good to get that kind of history and background

01:08:42.649 --> 01:08:45.710
and to learn that youth is not where you ever

01:08:45.710 --> 01:08:49.329
want to find yourself well you know i'm sure

01:08:49.329 --> 01:08:51.670
someone in your vast audience will say he was

01:08:51.670 --> 01:08:53.829
too critical but i'm not trying to be critical

01:08:53.829 --> 01:08:57.989
it's just one of our jobs as a parent as an adult

01:08:57.989 --> 01:09:01.689
as an official is to look after the athletes

01:09:01.689 --> 01:09:04.029
you know whether that's belaying well judging

01:09:04.029 --> 01:09:09.989
uh judging well or you know just providing water

01:09:09.989 --> 01:09:14.369
support is important and care is important one

01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:16.930
of the things I love most about some of the top

01:09:16.930 --> 01:09:19.289
players is how much they care about athletes

01:09:19.289 --> 01:09:22.409
athletes who may show up to a chair late it's

01:09:22.409 --> 01:09:25.970
like let's calm this down we got you we'll get

01:09:25.970 --> 01:09:28.130
you out to the field of play it's not time to

01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:32.729
freak out yeah good words to end on there just

01:09:32.729 --> 01:09:35.010
a few more discord questions questions from the

01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:39.609
audience oh So first one, do belayers get a rundown

01:09:39.609 --> 01:09:41.449
of the route from the setters or are they figuring

01:09:41.449 --> 01:09:43.829
it out with the athletes? Especially when it

01:09:43.829 --> 01:09:46.189
comes to the crazier moves they set, like dynamic

01:09:46.189 --> 01:09:48.729
stuff and down climbing. In better organized

01:09:48.729 --> 01:09:53.170
competitions, the head belayer will have a conversation

01:09:53.170 --> 01:09:56.810
with the head setter to know what some of their

01:09:56.810 --> 01:09:59.649
concerns might be. And then that information

01:09:59.649 --> 01:10:03.890
is transferred to the belayers for some qualifying

01:10:03.890 --> 01:10:06.100
youth events. You just show up and you belay

01:10:06.100 --> 01:10:09.239
it. There are some belayers who are very, very

01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:11.840
good at what we call site belaying. That's the

01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:13.960
person that can move around and work any route

01:10:13.960 --> 01:10:17.899
and be the person to take over for breaks or

01:10:17.899 --> 01:10:21.159
just substitute in if someone is belaying under

01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:24.619
standard. And sometimes you have to figure it

01:10:24.619 --> 01:10:27.779
out. Most of the time, we will have some recon

01:10:27.779 --> 01:10:32.529
on the routes. Sounds good. Have you ever seen

01:10:32.529 --> 01:10:35.369
an athlete or coach object to a belayer? Yep.

01:10:35.770 --> 01:10:40.069
What happens there? If a belayer, for whatever

01:10:40.069 --> 01:10:42.369
reason, has a reputation of someone they don't

01:10:42.369 --> 01:10:45.149
want to belay with, there's been discussions

01:10:45.149 --> 01:10:47.909
and call zones. It's like, can someone else belay

01:10:47.909 --> 01:10:50.710
me? In the youth circuit, it's probably more

01:10:50.710 --> 01:10:56.869
prevalent because you have more volunteers who

01:10:56.869 --> 01:11:00.119
people aren't familiar with. And so it's like,

01:11:00.180 --> 01:11:04.020
is that person okay? Or if parents or spectators

01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:08.579
see someone practicing poor technique, there

01:11:08.579 --> 01:11:13.420
may be a discussion to replace a belayer. We've

01:11:13.420 --> 01:11:15.939
tried to mitigate against that through training

01:11:15.939 --> 01:11:19.880
and endorsement systems. Makes sense. And last

01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:22.159
one, is there a process for removing a belayer

01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:25.109
mid -comp if there are issues? You have to have

01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:28.130
a really strong head belayer and assistant head

01:11:28.130 --> 01:11:31.010
belayer who, in conjunction with the JP or event

01:11:31.010 --> 01:11:35.029
organizer or head sitter, determines that person

01:11:35.029 --> 01:11:39.670
isn't belaying to standard. And it has to be

01:11:39.670 --> 01:11:42.210
a conversation. Can you come with me, please?

01:11:42.390 --> 01:11:44.810
We're going to take you out of this rotation

01:11:44.810 --> 01:11:47.270
and put someone else in. I mean, we saw that

01:11:47.270 --> 01:11:49.609
at Wu Jang at the very highest level that the

01:11:49.609 --> 01:11:54.640
belayers were replaced. I was at a national championship

01:11:54.640 --> 01:11:57.380
a few years ago where I was head belayer and

01:11:57.380 --> 01:11:59.460
I asked my head belayer to remove a belayer because

01:11:59.460 --> 01:12:03.659
he was performing under standards. One of the

01:12:03.659 --> 01:12:06.279
things we have in every belay plan is if you

01:12:06.279 --> 01:12:10.619
are removed, let's talk about it after the round

01:12:10.619 --> 01:12:13.199
and not on the field of play. Well, this belayer

01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:15.100
wanted to adjudicate it right there on the field

01:12:15.100 --> 01:12:19.829
of play and it got very nasty. A process at the

01:12:19.829 --> 01:12:22.789
higher level comps, most higher level comps,

01:12:22.789 --> 01:12:25.149
not every higher level comps, but there are many

01:12:25.149 --> 01:12:27.250
comps where there is no process. The person just

01:12:27.250 --> 01:12:32.550
has to be told to give up the rope. But it's

01:12:32.550 --> 01:12:35.470
something a JP or a head setter or the head Blair

01:12:35.470 --> 01:12:39.630
are certainly empowered to do. I didn't know

01:12:39.630 --> 01:12:42.760
that happened in Wuchong. You'll notice at the

01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:46.680
men's round after the down climb situation, there

01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:49.880
were new belayers put out onto the field. Hurts

01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:52.119
my heart to see. Do you know what went on there?

01:12:52.899 --> 01:12:57.479
I think the video showed that the climber was

01:12:57.479 --> 01:13:00.539
aided in the down climb. Without the aid, they

01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:02.619
would have fallen. So it was basically, or not

01:13:02.619 --> 01:13:04.560
basically, technically, it was a rope technical.

01:13:05.220 --> 01:13:07.800
So then the climber had to climb again. So that

01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:13.100
really, really threw the comp off. Well, at least

01:13:13.100 --> 01:13:15.539
it wasn't like a safety issue. It was not a safety

01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:18.560
issue, but there had been a safety issue earlier

01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.939
in that comp with maybe big falls, but I do not

01:13:21.939 --> 01:13:24.659
know that for sure. Okay. Good to know. What

01:13:24.659 --> 01:13:27.180
I heard from people who were there. Okay. Well,

01:13:27.300 --> 01:13:29.880
that's all the questions I had. Thanks for joining.

01:13:30.340 --> 01:13:32.520
Any like last minute words of wisdom you want

01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:35.000
to get out there? Two words, ice climbing. That's

01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:37.279
where I want to go now. I've been watching that

01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:42.000
circuit and it's everything you love. And everything

01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:45.720
you love about Lee climbing, plus you have the

01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:48.739
cold and you have ice falling and you have the

01:13:48.739 --> 01:13:52.359
possibility of axes falling on you. And a lot

01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:54.760
of us really want to get into that circuit. And

01:13:54.760 --> 01:13:58.920
fortunately, I've been contacted by the UIAA

01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:01.899
to have some discussions about belay standards

01:14:01.899 --> 01:14:05.000
in ice climbing. And I've been watching a lot

01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:09.119
of ice climbing lately and I'm aching to do it.

01:14:09.710 --> 01:14:12.569
Aching to do it. It looks super fun, super fulfilling.

01:14:12.750 --> 01:14:15.329
In fact, Matt Groom was like, you really have

01:14:15.329 --> 01:14:17.329
to get into the ice circuit, mate. And I'm like,

01:14:17.449 --> 01:14:19.529
really? Then I looked at it. I'm like, sure.

01:14:19.869 --> 01:14:22.430
So that's next for you. That's next for me. I'll

01:14:22.430 --> 01:14:26.029
be in a helmet and a puffer. Freezing, freezing,

01:14:26.149 --> 01:14:28.729
but loving it. Oh, yeah. So I guess you need

01:14:28.729 --> 01:14:31.050
the helmet for if the ice pick falls on you.

01:14:31.149 --> 01:14:33.930
What about your body that's still exposed? You

01:14:33.930 --> 01:14:38.189
have to be pretty keen on where you're standing.

01:14:39.369 --> 01:14:43.189
Has anyone actually dropped their ice pick during

01:14:43.189 --> 01:14:45.010
an ice climbing? Oh, it happens all the time.

01:14:45.210 --> 01:14:47.069
Oh, jeez. Yeah, all the time. Oh, that's terrifying.

01:14:47.069 --> 01:14:48.829
The setters have to have techniques in place

01:14:48.829 --> 01:14:53.909
to either retrieve a pick left up or, you know,

01:14:53.949 --> 01:14:58.590
yeah, they fall. Watch a couple championships.

01:14:58.770 --> 01:15:03.409
Those things come wailing down. Terrifying, but

01:15:03.409 --> 01:15:07.689
simultaneously terrifying and thrilling. I know

01:15:07.689 --> 01:15:10.520
someone who does this. ice belaying. And I know,

01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:15.439
I know athletes who compete and it's, yeah. So

01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:19.180
have you done it yet? Ever? Like any kind of

01:15:19.180 --> 01:15:21.779
ice climbing? I've only belayed like people simulating

01:15:21.779 --> 01:15:25.119
ice climbing, unlike logs, but never, never a

01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:29.460
competition and never on with real ice. And I

01:15:29.460 --> 01:15:32.600
hate cold. So there you go. Yeah. So then I'm

01:15:32.600 --> 01:15:36.960
not sure why you would do that. It may be one

01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:42.829
of the highest. tiers of belaying that could

01:15:42.829 --> 01:15:51.010
stand some unified processes and maybe not disparagingly,

01:15:51.010 --> 01:15:53.949
but professionalization. And I'd like to give

01:15:53.949 --> 01:15:58.310
it a go before I portend to be any sort of expert

01:15:58.310 --> 01:16:00.909
at it. I'd like to try it. Well, that'll be exciting.

01:16:01.010 --> 01:16:03.449
And I can't wait to see how that turns out. Let

01:16:03.449 --> 01:16:05.170
me know how it goes. I'd be really interested

01:16:05.170 --> 01:16:08.319
to hear about that. Yeah, I don't know. Okay,

01:16:08.319 --> 01:16:10.779
awesome. Well, good luck with that endeavor.

01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:14.020
Anything else you want to shout out or let people

01:16:14.020 --> 01:16:16.859
know where they can find you? I love my team.

01:16:16.880 --> 01:16:19.119
I love the people I work with. They are some

01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:21.800
of the most caring people in the world, all the

01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:24.699
way across the world to the layers and copper

01:16:24.699 --> 01:16:32.020
and my homie Helmut at the Swiss Alpine Club.

01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:35.399
People that love to belay are amazing humans

01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:37.520
and people that get good at it. I mean, like

01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:39.859
this woman Sawyer, she's been counting the number

01:16:39.859 --> 01:16:43.239
of climbs. She's already in one season a no -notes

01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:46.779
belayer. Nothing to say to her. But, you know,

01:16:46.819 --> 01:16:48.939
I'm around. You'll see me at comps. Come say

01:16:48.939 --> 01:16:54.420
hi. People I've met have told me how scary I

01:16:54.420 --> 01:16:56.600
am and intense I am. No, I'm just a goof that

01:16:56.600 --> 01:17:00.899
happens to. try to focus on on my job and i'm

01:17:00.899 --> 01:17:03.399
on you know instagram or whatever at underscore

01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:05.920
ty hardaway underscore because there's another

01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:08.500
ty hardaway had it who only has like three posts

01:17:08.500 --> 01:17:12.060
and i've asked him to to i told him i'd buy it

01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:14.899
from him but i'll go with the underscores well

01:17:14.899 --> 01:17:17.760
i came into instagram late because i discovered

01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:19.920
that some people that i really want to communicate

01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:21.680
with that's the only place i can communicate

01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:24.300
with them well i will link that below so no one

01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:26.880
goes to the wrong one and if anyone has questions

01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:30.880
Happy to try to answer them. I know a lot. I'm

01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:33.140
not perfect. I may not have all the answers,

01:17:33.199 --> 01:17:35.739
but I know a lot of people. Awesome. Well, thank

01:17:35.739 --> 01:17:37.939
you again. It was amazing to talk to you. Amazing

01:17:37.939 --> 01:17:40.699
to talk to you. Thank you so much for making

01:17:40.699 --> 01:17:43.039
it to the end of the podcast. Don't forget to

01:17:43.039 --> 01:17:45.220
like and subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise,

01:17:45.380 --> 01:17:48.680
you are a super big climber. If you're listening

01:17:48.680 --> 01:17:51.239
on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:54.199
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:17:54.199 --> 01:17:57.359
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:17:57.359 --> 01:17:59.819
in the description. Thanks again for listening.