7: Zoe Spriggins, World Cup Organizer

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T-minus six hours or something and the queen dies. Because essentially you're being judged

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on whether or not you're disabled enough to represent your country.

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Do you sort of have an estimate of how much it costs to put on a World Cup level event?

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Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host Jinni and I'm

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excited to introduce my guest for today, Zoe Spriggins. Zoe is a program manager for GB

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Climbing and is an expert in organizing and running climbing competitions. I promise there's

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much more going on behind the scenes than you expect. In this episode we'll talk about the

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Edinburgh World Cup disaster, organizing at World Champs, Paraclimbing, and Anti-Doping.

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I hope you enjoy this episode with Zoe.

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Okay, so yeah, how are you doing today? I'm good, how are you? Good, good. Anything stressful going

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on for you? It's been a long day, but it's all right. Climbing related stuff? Yeah, I've

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been working for the International Federation this afternoon. So we had the board meeting,

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so taking minutes and trying to stay awake. Right. Well, God, you made it through the day.

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But yeah, related to that, I think a lot of people listening probably aren't familiar with you,

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some maybe, but for those who aren't familiar, what do you do in regards to competition climbing

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organization? So I work for the British Mountaineering Council and I organize all the

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national climbing competitions in the UK. And I'm working on a major event strategy at the moment

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in the hopes that we can bring more international events to the UK. Is this event something you're

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allowed to talk about? The event strategy? Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm really

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excited. It's a good piece of work. Yeah, do you want to go into that a little bit right now?

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Yeah, why not? We're on the topic. So we've hosted a few international events sporadically.

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And the idea is if we had a strategy, we can kind of identify solid hosting opportunities and build

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up a bit of a repertoire, a bit of a bank of, hey, the UK is a great place to come to because

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they host really good events. So it's kind of the background towards this strategy. And so it's

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quite exciting. So is this to bring international like IFSC events to the UK? Yeah, absolutely.

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Not just that, also looking broadening horizons to ice climbing. I don't think we'd quite make

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ski mountaineering. We don't get a lot of snow, but you never know.

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All right. So you're involved in all of it from just like regular competition climbing to ice

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climbing and I guess anything in between. Yeah. So I have the opportunity to manage the British

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paragliding team and then oversee registrations for ice climbing and ski-mo and then opportunity

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to work with some of the ice climbers up in Scotland in hosting European style events for

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the UIA, which is the federation that runs all the international ice climbing.

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Yeah, I don't know much about ice climbing, especially since I think it is like a separate

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organization from the IFSC in general. So yeah, I just, I have no idea about ice climbing, but it's

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really cool that you have the knowledge of all of it. It basically means I don't get a break because

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the international season starts in April for IFSC sport climbing and then the winter season starts

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when the international season for sport climbing finishes. Then we go into the winter season and

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then we start again for the winter season. There's just no break from events. They're all the time.

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That must be, yeah, there's definitely no break there. And so how did you get into this line of

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work anyway? I was a climbing wall manager working in Sheffield and hosting these events. And my

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predecessor, he was leaving, he actually joined the UIA and runs the international ice climbing

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events and a couple of people on the ground, a couple of the coaches, a couple of the route

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setters. So he'd be really good at going for this role. So I thought, all right, I'll give it a go.

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And I was successful. And then here we are five years later, still going. So it started with

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doing small events within your own little climbing gym and then branching out from there.

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Yeah. The climbing gym they used to work at was a designated international performance center.

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So each year we used to have to host the British league climbing champs. And it just got stuck in

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and helped the organizer as much as I could. I wanted to showcase the center. I wanted to make

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the event really good. And then the opportunity came up to apply for the role full time. So

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I took it with both hands. So are you now currently employed by IFSC or like, is it

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British Mountaineering? So I'm employed by the British Mountaineering Council.

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The IFSC stuff is voluntary. So I'm secretary general for IFSC Europe. So I just help on the

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executive board at the European level in the Continental Council. And so I help with kind of

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meetings and plenary assemblies and event organization in terms of just supporting

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in Alphonse, who does the calendar and that kind of thing. So that's more of a voluntary role.

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Just, you know, my plate's not busy enough. Do you, I guess, get fulfillment from being able to,

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I guess, have a voice in that area and they like kind of take into account what,

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whatever like suggestions that you may have? Yeah, absolutely. It's a really good way to help

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influence the future of the sport on an international level rather than just on a

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UK based level. And I just think it's important to have a seat at the table and help, you know,

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further the development of the sport, especially around events in Europe. And the IFSC has just

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hit 100 members and there's 44 member federations within Europe. So it's brilliant to interact with

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other federations and learn from them as well. Like learn from what they're doing and try and

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improve what we offer in the UK. It's a great opportunity. It's a bit of work, but hey,

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all good things or works are worth something in the end, aren't they? If you work hard enough.

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Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So yeah, let's get into Team GB a bit since that's what you have

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the most experience with. So the GB climbing team, it seems pretty established. In a previous podcast

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episode, I was talking to Maya who you know, and she mentioned that in some countries athletes are

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employed by the army and that's kind of how they get paid and how they have some security in the

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job that they're doing. Is this the case for GB? No, I think a lot of them are students or a lot

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of them are route setters or have part-time jobs or do try and full-time climb. I think that's the

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best way you can maximize the training. We do have climbing teams within the armed forces and they do

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have their own competition series, which I've been invited to and go and assist on and help,

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but they don't tend to not too much crossover between being in the armed forces and being on

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the team. It's quite different. So they're like actually part of the army? Yeah, yeah, actually

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part of the army and the area. Oh gosh. Okay. And the Navy. How does the, if you don't mind going

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into this, how does the GB climbing team itself actually make money? Is it like sponsors, donations?

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Do you ever like make money actually holding competitions? Oh no, we don't make any money

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holding competitions. Okay, that's unfortunate. Yeah, I'd love to know how people do make money

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hosting competitions. Most events I've gone to or worked on, the sole aim has been to break even.

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The team is in a position at the minute where we're going through a lot of change. So athletes are

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mainly self-funded. There is some funding when you start to reach creeping to the Olympic side of

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things. So if you're really pushing for Paris or LA, there's a little bit of funding that can help

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support you on that journey. But at the moment, we are kind of, it's a growing sport in the UK,

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but if you think of the UK, the first thing you think of is Premier League football. You don't

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really think of climbing. And so a lot of the money is in the Premier League. But I think we'll get

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there eventually. It'd be good to, we're working on sponsorship, obviously. Everyone loves to have a

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bit of sponsorship and work with sponsors to get the mutually beneficial relationship going.

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But that's quite challenging in these times, especially after COVID and everyone's coming

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back to full calendars and full seasons and events are happening all over the world. And obviously,

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you have to work out kind of your strategic aims for the year and where you can get the most points

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from to get qualification routes into Paris, especially as Paris is next year. And then who

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knows what LA is going to look like yet? We don't know. It could be three single disciplines. And

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then the opportunities then explode for more climbers to come through, especially those that

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are leading Boulder. You're kind of hopeful that after more Olympics, after more Olympic years,

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there might be more money coming in to the organizations. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah,

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more exposure and hopefully some medal success would be great. But I think everyone wants to

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win medals, don't they? Yeah. I mean, you guys have some good prospects, especially with Toby.

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So that'll be really exciting. Really, really exciting. And then looking forward to looking

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your head to LA, you kind of look back a couple of years and see who's coming through the youth

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side of things and how you can then really develop them to reach their potential and maybe even

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represent GB in LA, which isn't that far away even though everyone says, oh, it's 2028. Well,

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we're at the back end of 2023. It's not even that far away. And when you see how hard people have

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to work in order just to achieve the goal of getting to the Olympics and then let alone

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succeeding when they're at the Olympics is absolutely phenomenal. The time and effort and

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everything comes together and how everyone has to chip in. It's just crazy. In terms of organizing

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events, what's one of the most stressful moments that you've had there? Oh, so a funny story. When

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I first started five years ago, I didn't really know what to expect when I walked into my first

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event. So I walked into his first event and Mark, he's been with me now for a good few years and he

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was volunteering his time way before I started. So he had to teach me how to kind of do all the

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scoring and input the scores and yeah, the general day-to-day running of the events. So that was quite

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stressful. I think I try and go with the kind of positive attitude that you just need to not worry

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about things that come your way and you've got to be really flexible and just enjoy it. The best

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thing is sometimes it can be a bit stressful in the run up to the event, but actually seeing

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the whole event come together and be pulled off, I think that was great. But if I had to pinpoint

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the most stressful moment, I think that would have been Edinburgh last year because we stepped in

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last minute to host an IFSC World Cup. Quite late notice. By the time we'd got the go ahead that we

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could step in and host it, we had seven to eight weeks planning. So I was away at the time with the

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Paraclimax team in Innsbruck and I was on this call when we were discussing whether or not we

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could go ahead and run the event and we decided to at the end. So we had seven to eight weeks of

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planning to pull this event together the night of the event. So we just done the technical meeting

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on the Friday night. It's about to start Saturday morning, you know, team-runnest, six hours or

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something and the Queen dies. And we have no idea if the event's going to go ahead, if we can run

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it, if the government's going to cancel. So I say that's probably been one of my most stressful

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events to date. Just had no clue what was going on.

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Why was it only like a seven, eight week notice ahead of time?

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Oh, Wu Xiang in China had pulled out pretty late so they couldn't host it. They were desperate to

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try and find another host and I don't know, we like a challenge in the UK and so we went for it.

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So first of all, I think this was like your first World Cup event that you've worked on.

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This was my first World Cup event I'd worked on, yes. In 2019 we'd hosted a European event

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at the same venue up in Scotland in the International Climate Arena. Amazing facility.

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So that was my first event, kind of European event to get to grips with internationals.

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But this was our first, this was my first World Cup. So to combine it with eight weeks of planning

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and then have the Queen die was pretty challenging.

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Yeah, so I guess after the death, like what happened in those few hours between Friday and

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Saturday night? We were desperately trying to find information on whether or not we could actually

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host the event. A lot of games, football games, et cetera, were being cancelled out of respect.

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And so you're in that middle ground where, okay, we've got a whole international event

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due to take place. We've got loads of people that have arrived in Edinburgh expecting to climb.

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We've sold tickets. We've got the arenas ready to go. We've got staff. We've

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got staff. Everything's been organised and we're just not sure if we're going to be able to run it

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or not. And if the government says we can't run it, then we can't run it. So it was quite an

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interesting, an interesting time. I think I got to bed around one in the morning, had a very

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restless night's sleep and woke up to the news. We could go ahead, but we couldn't have any social

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media coverage of the event out of respect. So we rushed off to Hobbycraft and we got some black

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rib in and we tried to make it as respectful as we could with silences throughout the day.

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But it was pretty stressful. Yeah. So I guess, what do you mean by no social media coverage of

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the event? Because I mean, obviously it was still streamed. Oh, so it was, we weren't allowed,

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out of respect, we didn't publish anything across our social media channels. So we didn't highlight

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that the event was taking place. We had loads of social media coverage planned to highlight the

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athletes, to highlight the bagpiper that we had there that led out the procession of the finalists.

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But in the end, we chose out of respect not to highlight any of that across our social

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media channels over that weekend. I mean, we obviously highlight a bit after, but over the

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weekend we didn't do very much. And how did it turn out for you in the end? You feel like,

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did it, was it a successful event? Definitely. I definitely learned a lot. I had a blast. It was

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it was great. The scene of the lighting and the athletes, everything coming together, the atmosphere.

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It was long, long hours, long old hours. But yeah, it was, it was, it gave me a real good taste of

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what we could do. So I was just buzzing. Are you hoping to organize, like host another

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World Cup in Edinburgh eventually in the future? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't think we've got any

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firm plans for next year, but absolutely. I think it'll be a great opportunity, especially in Edinburgh

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with the international climbing arena. It's a great venue, world class. Yeah. I guess how does it get

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chosen in the future? Like do you have to apply? Yeah. So we would move towards a tender process.

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So we would set out the requirements that we'd be looking for and then venues and councils,

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because in England we have councils. Each region has a council. We'd look to be working with the

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council and then they can apply to host the event. The face of the sport is changing massively.

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We're very commercial driven. We have over 400 commercially active centers within the UK,

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climbing centers, and they're not necessarily set up for spectating. So there's a big shift on,

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we could host events in city centers or we could host them in arenas. And if you look at the

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IFSC World Cup in Prague, I mean, that was in the middle of the city center. It was incredible.

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The footfall and the turnout of people watching that and it really highlighted,

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then got the sport on the map, I think, and it was great for the IFSC. And so that's kind of the

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future really, moving it into city centers. And at the moment, all our events we host are in

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commercial operated climbing centers, except for our British bouldering champs, which

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we set up in a park in the middle of Sheffield city center. So I think moving forward, it will

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be, we'll see a lot more of city center events or events in arenas. When I went to the world

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championships in Bern, that was in an ice hockey arena. And that was another level. Yeah.

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I had no idea.

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Yeah. Another level that had this amazing opportunity to go out and volunteer. So headed

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out for three weeks to help behind the scenes and help with everything. Helped with getting the venue

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ready, helped with matting, helped with call zones, helped with transition zones, cleaning,

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you name it, registration. I did it all that week and it was fantastic. But it was another level

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having that arena and seeing how packed it was, especially for combined finals or lead finals or

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broader, the crowd was just incredible. So a whole another level. Yeah. We'll get into Bern in a bit,

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but going back to, I guess, just how these arenas or climbing centers get set up. I think for a lot

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of us, we have never had the opportunity to go see a world cup event in person. I haven't, and I'm

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sure a lot of people haven't. So for those of us who have never had the chance to go see one in

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person, can you sort of just describe what the venue looks like and what things you need in a

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venue to make the event possible?

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Yeah. So for a broader event, especially when we run it in the Parking Sheffield with the

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city council, Sheffield city council and their business district that often supports it,

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there's a scaffold structure and then the wall is built onto the structure and it's around four

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meters in height and then we need about four meters for matting. And then we'll have some barriers so

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that the coaches can come in and we can also operate our judges. And then after that it's free

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for spectators so they can take up all the space. Behind the scenes, you also have to consider

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athlete warm up areas, drinks, toilet facilities, all the kind of other bits and bobs that you don't

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actually, you don't think goes on. Last year I got the opportunity to go to the gymnastics

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world championship and they had in Liverpool and their front facing arena, you think, oh wow,

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that's something incredible. But behind the scenes, they obviously, athletes needed somewhere to

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warm up. They needed hotels and the accommodation can't be too far away because then athletes have

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to add on travel time. And so all the gymnasts were staying in the hotel, literally across the

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road from the venue. But they had this whole underground operation, which was full of brand

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new equipment that the athletes could warm up on. And you just don't consider, oh, where are the

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athletes actually going to warm up? So at World Cups and other events, they need space to warm up,

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especially speed athletes. They have a lot of high energy routines. They need quite a bit of space.

00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:38,640
They do a lot of running, fast, get the fast twitch muscles going. And then for ropes, obviously,

00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,880
you want somewhere where you can actually get on a rope and link some longer moves together.

00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,840
Typically, you find that there's lots of bouldering space where you can warm up, but for a rope to

00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:54,080
climb in, you probably want to have some space where they can do some longer moves. LinkedIn and

00:23:54,080 --> 00:24:00,400
then Boulder. Well, most venues have a little Boulder wall where you can start warming up.

00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,400
The British bouldering champs, we are limited on space, so we encourage athletes to warm up

00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,120
where they can and then do their final prep at the venue just because we've only got some more

00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:20,160
warm up wall out the back. And then we pray that it doesn't rain because we're outside in the UK.

00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:31,040
Yeah, especially. So in these venues, like, are you building the, is it like a portable climbing

00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:37,040
wall or are you trying to find spaces where a climbing wall has already existed? Because

00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:42,400
you said that you were building up like scaffolding. Yeah. So the British boulder champs,

00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,080
we use a team from the climbing works that come in and they build the wall.

00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,320
They put the plywood onto the scaffold and actually shape the wall there and then based on

00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,760
the scaffold design. That's quite a unique competition for us. The rest of our events are

00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,800
held in commercial facilities where they already have the walls in situ and the matting in situ.

00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:09,120
And all we do is we go in and we provide root setters and the root setters are the ones that

00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,680
shape the competition and do the mastery and make the roots look cool and make the boulder problems

00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:24,000
look incredible. And we have a hold supplier with serious climbing distribution and they provide us

00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,680
with holds for our events. And so all these little parts come together to make the event what it is.

00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:36,560
There's lots of moving parts and you can't pinpoint one part is absolutely crucial because you need a

00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:42,320
venue, but without root setters and holds and then it doesn't work. So you kind of, it's all three

00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,640
points of the pyramid. You kind of need all three things to make the event come to life.

00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:54,560
And then the running of the whole thing, we rely heavily on volunteers from our technical officials

00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:01,600
to our belayers, to guys on reception, to people scanning tickets. Yeah, we rely a lot on volunteers

00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:09,360
to come down and judge and belay and hopefully they also have a good time. Try and give them a good time.

00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:19,200
In terms of accommodating for rain, do you have a preference on indoor versus outdoor venues?

00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:26,080
It seems like most World Cups are outdoor venues, so I'm not really sure why given the weather concerns.

00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:34,400
Yeah, I don't know. I think outdoor venues just look really cool. So imagine you're walking through

00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,920
Sheffield City Centre and you come across Devonshire Green and there's this massive wall

00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,320
just in the middle of this green in the middle of the city centre. You'll be like, whoa, what's that?

00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:53,520
But in the UK, I don't know, I'd always go for an indoor venue because the weather's just so

00:26:53,520 --> 00:27:00,160
unpredictable. I just don't think we could find a decent slot where it's not raining. I mean,

00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:07,520
it's been lovely weather today, but it's October. You kind of want the season to be a bit shorter, but

00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:14,880
yeah, I definitely think an indoor venue over an outdoor. But then again, I absolutely love

00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,520
the British Bordering Championships is my favourite event in our national calendar just because it is

00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,960
outdoors and because we do build the wall specifically for that event. I absolutely love it.

00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:33,760
I just think it's a really unique and awesome event. But if it rains, the people don't come

00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:41,680
and watch and we've got to make sure the wall doesn't leak and everywhere's kept dry. Two years

00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:47,840
ago, I think we had a flood because the weather was that bad out the back and the athletes couldn't

00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,120
warm up because there's just water everywhere and where we're trying to warm up. And yeah, so I

00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:58,720
definitely prefer a weatherproof venue. I'll put it that way, weatherproof venue.

00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:07,040
So I guess part of the appeal of the outdoor venue is also just drawing other people's eyes in who

00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:13,440
aren't necessarily climbers, but might see it just out in the city and then might look into it in the

00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,440
future because it looks interesting. Yeah, absolutely. There's one event on the circuit

00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,840
I'd love to go to and that would be Chamonix. I've never managed to get there, but Chamonix

00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:27,600
has done it and the backdrop is the French Alps. It's done outside on the amazing wall

00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,720
and the backdrop is the French Alps. I mean, I got all the way to Villars in Switzerland and

00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:39,520
their backdrop was also mountains. So I do think it's pretty cool when you've got mountains. But

00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,520
I think we're more classed as an urban sport now. So I guess moving into the city centers kind of

00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,280
fits in with what we're being classed as, I guess, a bit more urban.

00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,400
Yeah, I guess I've heard this a couple of times that it's being classified as an urban sport.

00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:01,760
I don't really know what that means. I mean, I guess I know what it means, but does it really

00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,320
make a difference just declaring it as an urban sport?

00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:13,200
I do think so. I think sport climbing will always have its history within

00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:21,200
mountaineering and climbing and being outdoors. I think urban because it fits with skateboard

00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:28,880
and BMX and break dancing. I can kind of see that it's a younger sport, but I think it'll

00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,880
always have its links. I think people will eventually find their way outdoors and into

00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,640
the hills and into the mountains and onto the crags if they can, definitely.

00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:48,560
Definitely. Yeah. Okay. And do national federations get a lot of guidance or any

00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:56,080
guidance from the IFSC in terms of organizing or do they just kind of let you go wild with it?

00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:02,160
There's an event handbook and there are specifications for the size of the wall,

00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,960
depending on which event you run. And then the IFSC will come in and they will give support with

00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:14,160
route setting and technical officials and results service. So they do actually, and obviously event

00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:23,440
branding. So it is a good collaboration to work with them and showcase the best of your country.

00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,360
That's essentially what you're doing. It's your shop window, isn't it? Look how good

00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:34,160
Manchester is or Edinburgh is or the UK as a whole. That's essentially what you're doing.

00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:41,920
It's a great honor when you can apply and you can be selected. I definitely think it's a great honor.

00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:49,600
Okay. That's good. That's good to hear, but you don't make any money from it. It's like

00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,720
a very expensive procedure to go through. Very expensive leisure.

00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,080
But like worth it. Oh, do you know what? This is going to sound really nerdy, but

00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,200
I went after the World Champ. I know we're going to come on to the World Championships,

00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,360
but after I went to World Championships in Byrne, I was so pumped that I was just ready. Like,

00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,880
what's the next event? Where are we going to next? I was just ready to continue

00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,960
and run another event. I just think there's something exciting and just brilliant about

00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,240
running events. When's the next one going to happen? Where's it going to be? And how can you

00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,080
make it better than the one you did last month or the one you did last year? And how many more

00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:34,000
children can you get to come down to the event and fall in love with climbing and fall in love

00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,280
with competing or even just have a good time? Just come down and have a good time and not worry about

00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,600
whether they come first or whether they come last. They just come out with great time. So

00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,600
I think events are a really good way to highlight everything.

00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:58,560
Yeah, that's awesome. But yeah, we can go into your Byrne experience. So I mean, that's a massive

00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:07,280
event to pull off. Just walk me through what it was like organizing for that.

00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:15,120
It started with a few conversations back and forth with us on the Swiss Alpine Club. He's kind of

00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:21,440
slightly higher than me in the organization, but I know him through the European Board.

00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,320
And he put me in touch with Sanjo and Yulia and they were the main organizers.

00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:33,520
And it was just fantastic to just get the opportunity to be involved. I'm not sure what

00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,640
I was expecting. You know, when you go to events and you think, oh, I'm just going to volunteer my

00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:44,640
time. Not sure what I was expecting. So the first day, arrived in Switzerland, got picked up,

00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,960
went and picked up the Miringen Boulder Wall and brought it back to Byrne and helped unload it and

00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,280
have a look at the venue. And yeah, it was already quite underway in terms of route setting was

00:32:55,280 --> 00:33:03,360
happening and the holds were there and the athlete lounge needed to be set up and various signage

00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,080
needed to go everywhere. And they had this cool athlete village, village of experience. And that

00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:15,440
was coming in and yeah, it was just crazy. It was, I didn't stop. I did 20 days straight. Didn't

00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:25,040
stop. It was just brilliant. I know that sounds like a lot, but all their volunteers, they had a

00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:31,040
really cool volunteer manager called Christian who worked at the local climbing center at Oblock.

00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,800
I think he runs it. If he's listening, he'll probably be upset that I've probably got his

00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,080
title wrong. He was so funny, but he organized the volunteers and they have such a group,

00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,080
great group of volunteers. There wasn't someone I met that they're just brilliant. Rito gave us

00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:52,800
some honey from his local bees and Lauren. Lauren's over in Ireland. So actually she's not,

00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,600
she's not that far from me. So we've been meeting up and she came to the British lead champs back

00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,760
in September. So it was great to see her again. And Roman, you know, you keep in touch with all

00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,840
these people that you meet and you've just been brought together on this one event and just pulled

00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:19,600
off such a brilliant, brilliant level of organization and level of event. And it was just fantastic to

00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,800
be part of the team. Absolutely fantastic to see what really goes on and what you really need to

00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,480
pull off a world championship. The other day I think I read in the local newspaper, it was like

00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:37,120
60,000 people came across the three week period, two week period of the event. Obviously they handed

00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:46,960
out the first tickets to Paris. So that was even more fantastic. But yeah, I kind of wished the

00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,760
IFSC had like packed me up in their trunk and taken me to the next event, you know. I was

00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,200
having such a good time. What's next? What event have we got coming up next?

00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,960
You mentioned that this was that it took place in an ice hockey arena?

00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:08,560
Yeah, so the post finance arena in Burton is actually normally used in winter as an ice hockey

00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:15,120
stadium. So they removed all the ice and the team were actually still training at the venue. So

00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,440
sometimes we'd have qualification going on for lead and then all these hockey players would walk

00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:25,360
through the same area behind the scenes and they were going to this secondary ice rink to do all

00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:32,880
their training. So it was pretty cool, but it's a huge arena, absolutely huge. And just had seating

00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:39,280
and then standing and was accessible for the guys that needed wheelchair access. But yeah, it was

00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:45,520
just, it was crazy. The first week, I don't know how many times I got lost or locked out.

00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:52,400
You couldn't find my way back in. And so like, how long does it take to just build up these walls

00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,520
in these places that don't have like necessarily the structure for it?

00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,320
I think they said it had been about a couple of weeks before because they've got this two

00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,880
arenas on the same site. So they had the curling hall, which is where the curling team practiced.

00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:14,800
They had that for the board of qualifications. So that came in, that was finished off the week

00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:20,160
I was there because we'd moved the Miringam wall and that got put in as the qualification wall

00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:28,320
and the fencing and the matting. So all that went in the last week before the competition started.

00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:34,400
So I was mainly involved in that area, but I think a week and a half before that, they'd done the

00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,120
build in the main arena. So they'd done the speed wall, the lead wall and the boulder wall there.

00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:46,320
And the route setting had started for the para first. And then again, when I arrived, they were

00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:53,760
doing the boulder and the lead for their individuals. And then the recesses just, they work so hard.

00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,560
And then they had to reset for the combined finals and the combined qualifications. So

00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:06,560
a lot of route setting happened. But they were really good, really positive, friendly guys to

00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:15,440
work with. So you had a bunch of volunteers working under you. What was it like keeping all of the

00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:24,080
organized for the event? I think the biggest thing I learned was you need to allow people time to

00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:31,120
watch. So smaller shift patterns allow people time to watch the event because you're just enthralled

00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:38,240
with what the crowd did. When the crowd go wild at that arena, it was so loud. You knew when someone

00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:42,560
was at the top or someone was close to the top or someone had done something amazing because the

00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:48,320
crowd just make the hairs on the back of your arm stand up. It was incredible. So I think it was

00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:53,280
allowing, making sure that everyone knows we're all human at the end of the day and we're really

00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,960
interested in what's going on. So allowing some time so they can go in, oh, hey, this is the last

00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,720
guy now. Why don't you go out and watch and I'll stay back and cover the last few guys. So I think

00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:12,240
not something I learned massively was, yeah, we all want to watch as well as volunteer, but we all

00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:19,600
want to watch. Yeah. So you have to sacrifice yourself. Yeah. I don't mind. I'm more of a behind

00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,560
the scenes than I am in front of the camera. Yeah, no, that definitely makes sense. I've

00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:31,120
like volunteered in the past and when you're, I was just doing like, like the isolation area and when

00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:37,360
you hear the crowd go wild, but you can't see what's going on. It's just, it's like a very

00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,040
stressful experience. Especially when, cause obviously some of the GB climbers were there,

00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,680
like Toby was there and Molly, and especially when you want to just be supportive and try and

00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,080
cheer them on, but equally you can't cause you've got to be serious and professional and

00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,160
you need to make sure everyone's having a good time in the back and you're not interfering with

00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,440
the athletes and making sure that they can stay in the zone and you're just there to be invisible,

00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,080
but guide them in the right way when they need to go out. Yeah. What was, and what was one of the

00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:18,240
most difficult parts of burn for you? I would have to say, well that we, we did laugh about it a lot

00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:23,680
afterwards, but there was one slip up when during one of the rounds, I can't, I can't remember what

00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:30,240
round it was. Adam Andre, so you have to control the gate. Okay. So the athletes come out and they

00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:36,320
have a clock and the clock went different colours. So the clock went red and then it went white and

00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,040
the white was the 15 second transition. That's so they had to wait for 15 seconds before they

00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:46,240
could go out to start their rotation. And so the red clock was counting down and there was beeps

00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,640
and Adam just blew past me, went straight out and I had someone in my ear shouting,

00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,360
why is Adam out on the field of play? He shouldn't have been out yet. And I couldn't stop him.

00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:02,640
So I think that was quite a stressful moment because he'd just gone. And I was like, oh no,

00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:12,160
you're not supposed to be out there. And I think he was Julian Clements and Alex Magos. Then they

00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,440
were just having a bit of fun teasing me and pretending that they were going to go earlier

00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,480
for the next couple of rounds. So that was, it's quite stressful to try and make sure the athletes

00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:27,840
stay there and go out at the right time. But yeah, entertaining. We had a good chuckle afterwards.

00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:57,360
Did he just not know? I think when they get in the zone, they just don't

00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,600
cause the transition, the 15 second transition is new to this year. So I think when they just

00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:08,240
get in the zone, that's it. And they used to the countdown and then go.

00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:15,920
Yeah, that sounds like an awesome time. Let me think, was there anything else that you wanted to

00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,120
discuss in terms of burn?

00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Well, I don't think so. I mean, the event itself was fantastic because the para climbing was

00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,280
bang in the middle. So I nipped out of the organisational role for a couple of days so

00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:39,040
I could manage the GB para climbing team and help all the athletes with their campaigns and

00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,960
their schedules to try and get them into the finals. And it was great having such an inclusive

00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,760
event where it wasn't, okay, here's the able bodied climbing and then there's two days and the

00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:55,680
para climbing starts. The para climbing was bang smack in the middle and some of the GB

00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:01,520
team came down and supported and it was a really great atmosphere. And it was the biggest para

00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:09,600
climbing event. I think they've run so far had around 180 to 200 athletes and 25 countries

00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:16,480
competing. So it was fantastic. Real, real showcase for para climbing sport. It was brilliant.

00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:24,880
Yeah, let's get right into the para climbing stuff. That's something I'm not as familiar with.

00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,280
So what are some of the differences between organising for, I guess, like traditional

00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:35,200
able bodied World Cup climbing and organising for para climbing?

00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:42,640
The main difference would be the number of categories. So we have 10, 10 sport classes,

00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:49,920
nine, nine or 10 sport classes currently. And that's, and that's men and women. So at the end

00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:57,680
of burn, I think there were 17 podiums we had to get through for para. So it's pretty cool.

00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:07,920
Each, the categories cover different ranges and different disabilities. So you have the amputee

00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,080
guys, you have the visually impaired guys, and then you have the range in power. So kind of the

00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:18,560
neurological side of things. And within each of them, there's different numbers that donate,

00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,320
whether or not it's the most impaired or the least impaired. So for example, in the range in power,

00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:31,520
so the neurological side, you have RP1, and that would be your guys with kind of the more

00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,720
heavily impaired. So they might only have like a bit of power in their legs or range of motion is

00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:46,240
limited. Then you have RP2, which is a step up and then RP3, which is the least kind of disabled

00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:53,200
in that, in that group. So people maybe have multiple sclerosis might be in RP3. And you look

00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:00,400
in in your RP1 guys that have cerebral palsy, that kind of thing. Then your amputee categories,

00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:06,080
you have your lower and your upper. So you've got your lower leg and your upper, so your AR1,

00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:13,280
which is mainly seated. Those guys are incredible. So they campus everything on their roots because

00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,400
they can't use their legs. It's just, it's just mind blowing. It's incredible to watch. And then

00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:24,560
you have your lower leg amputees, they might wear a prosthetic, or they might choose not to. And then

00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:31,840
in the arm, you have your below the kind of elbow joint and below, and they had a new class this

00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,640
year, which was AU3. And that's if you've got problems with your hands. So if you're missing

00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,840
fingers, that affects your grip, or loss of sensation or anything to do that, then they've

00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:48,480
got they've kind of restructured the classes there. And then finally, the visually impaired, they

00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:54,080
follow the same as the RP guys. So you've got visually impaired, you've got B1, B2, B3. So B1

00:44:54,080 --> 00:45:01,520
being you're fully can't see anything can B3 being you have some vision, but not, not the same as

00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:13,280
me or you, for example. That's a lot of categories. I guess, do you know how those got determined?

00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:20,560
And is it kind of weird trying to fit people into these categories, like determining at what

00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:28,720
level of, I guess, disability they have? Oh, absolutely. So each year,

00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:36,640
you have to undergo classification. And so you will complete a medical form, and you send it off to

00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,440
the International Federation before you're due to compete. And then two days before the event,

00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:49,120
you'll get assigned a classification slot. Now you can be classified for a fixed review date,

00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:54,720
so a number of years, or you can be classified for just that year, and they want to see the

00:45:54,720 --> 00:46:00,000
following year, or you can be classified as not eligible. And I think it's one of the most

00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,000
stressful things that anyone should have to go through, because essentially, you're being judged

00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,360
on whether or not you're disabled enough to represent your country. And don't get me wrong,

00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:18,400
I understand that there needs to be some set of rules and some set of, okay, criteria to make the

00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:24,800
competition fair, so that you're broadly competing with, in the category with people that have a

00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,800
similar or the same ailments as yourself. So I understand that, but the process of classification

00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,880
is always stressful. I've never found it not stressful, and I'm not even the one being

00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:43,600
classified. I'm just there to support the team. And then if you have a fixed review date, that's

00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,640
the best outcome. So it'll be a number of years, so you might be classified this year, and your

00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:54,880
fixed review date will be 25 or 26. So then you don't need to submit your medical documentation

00:46:54,880 --> 00:47:00,880
each year, you'll just need to have it submitted and ready for 2026, when you go for your review.

00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,440
And it's that similar across all power sports. But I think we are one of the sports with the

00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:16,240
highest number of classes, sport classes, currently. A lot of other sports have fewer

00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:22,800
classes, so you can imagine they might have a broader range of ailments to fit into one class.

00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,560
But yeah, we have the highest number, I think, at the moment.

00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:36,560
Yeah, that is a lot. Do you think that, I mean, there is like the Paralympics as well. Is that

00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,720
something, is climbing something that will show up in the Olympics in the future for

00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:44,480
para climbing? We find out in November, at the end of November.

00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:54,640
I know, I know. We find out, so the decision will be made about whether para climbing will be

00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:00,240
included in LA in 2028, which is why I was saying that burn was such a success because

00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:06,880
25 countries had para athletes represented at that event, which is phenomenal. And it shows

00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,960
that the sport is growing and that there is an appetite for people to come and watch as well.

00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,600
But yeah, the IFSC have got a strong desire to be included in the Paralympics.

00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:24,720
And so we're just waiting to hear now. So it is exciting. It could change a lot for a lot of

00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:30,400
athletes, as I was saying at the start. So some of these athletes could then have the opportunity

00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:38,480
to be funded because they could be in with medal potential for LA Games, which is, it does seem

00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:43,200
like eight, nine years away, but that's good. I'm going to go by pretty quickly. If you imagine

00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:48,960
you've got to try and keep yourself healthy and work really hard to be the best you can be for

00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:55,920
this, this one pinnacle sporting event where you could be an Olympian. I did. I just think

00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:02,080
for para climbers to have the opportunity would just, just be incredible, but we have to wait and

00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:08,480
see. End of November. Yeah, that would be really exciting. Do you know, so like what kind of,

00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:13,600
do you know what kind of categories would be available for para climbing or for the

00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:22,240
Paralympics for para climbing if that does come through? No, I don't have that information at the

00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:27,360
moment. I just know that the decision is going to be made and then I guess we'll find out, but I'm

00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:35,040
hoping, I'm hoping that they'll, they'll cover, I don't know, either way someone's going to lose

00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:40,160
out. Do you know what I mean? Cause we can't just head to the Paralympics as a first,

00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:46,240
first opportunity for the sport and have all the classes be accepted, which would, would be amazing

00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:54,560
obviously. So I think, yeah, I don't know. I'd love to know, but I'll just have to wait.

00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:06,400
I mean, even for like the regular Olympics, they only gave us one medal for all of speed,

00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:13,920
only gave us one medal for all of speed and Balder and Leeds. So yeah, I can't really imagine,

00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:21,440
uh, I don't know. I don't think they'll, they'll give us many medals for the Paralympics either,

00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:29,040
but hopefully one day. I think it'll be, it'll be great if it does get into Ali though,

00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:36,400
because America, USA, you have a strong, a really strong Paraclimbing team. So I think, yeah, the

00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:47,200
rest of us have to catch up. Yeah, it'll be exciting to see. Um, do you know how, like, is there a way

00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,840
we'll hear about it in November? I guess like the IFSC will make a statement about it or something

00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:57,360
like that. Yeah, I hope that that'll be a official announcement. Um, we've been waiting for the

00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:03,840
decision since February, so no one else has told me it'll be delayed any later than November. So

00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:09,600
I've got my fingers crossed that it will be at the end of November. Yeah. Okay. I hope to hear

00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:17,120
about it and I hope it goes through. Yeah, me too. It'll be, it'll be incredible. Absolutely incredible.

00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:24,560
Yeah. And so in terms of organization, um, what are some of the accommodations that you have to

00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:31,360
keep in mind, um, either for like the venue or just the climbing in general, um, that you think

00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:36,560
most people probably don't have to think about when, um, organizing for Paraclimbers?

00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:43,600
The layout of the venue is really important and how accessible it is. So if you imagine

00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,960
there'll be some people with mobility issues, but there will be people in full wheelchairs.

00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:55,280
So the layout of the venue and a lot of climbing walls, if they've got accessible toilets on the

00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:00,400
ground floor, it might be an accessible venue, but then you've got to go up the stairs to use

00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,320
this facility. So that's, that's a consideration. And then the IFSC actually produces really great

00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:12,080
document where they give you kind of guidelines around route setting, because different categories

00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:19,040
have different strengths or weaknesses. So for some categories you need to put on more footholds

00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:23,120
because they can't, they're not going to, with the range in power, motion, they're not going to be

00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:30,080
able to lift their feet as high. With some, some sport classes, like the seated guys, you don't

00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,360
really want to put them on a vertical wall if they're campers in, because they're not going to

00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,920
be able, they need to be able to like, their body will be hanging. So they need to have some space.

00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:44,720
And then the amputee guys, you need to think about, they can't really use small crimpy holds,

00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:51,280
especially if they've got a forearm missing or a hand missing. So there's a really great document

00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,680
that gives you some guidance on the route setting. And the route setting actually is generally,

00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:01,040
I think it's still learned, I think everyone's still learning about where the, you know, where

00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:07,040
the glass ceiling is. I don't think we've tapped what the athletes are actually able to do.

00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:13,360
Because we're still learning at each event and each event, the route setting is getting better

00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:18,400
and more varied and the holds are incredible and the athletes doing incredible things. And I,

00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:24,240
I just don't think we've tapped into, to where it can go just, just yet. I think there's massive

00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:29,040
potential for route setting, but yeah, there's a great, great support from the IFSC and they give

00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:36,080
you some real good guidance on what you can, you know, what the sport classes look like and

00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:41,360
what you can set and what's best to avoid. Yeah. I would love to get like a,

00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,400
a route center on for answering some questions about that in the future.

00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:57,040
But is there anyone, like, is there any para climber on an IFSC board or like the,

00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,800
the athletes commission that helps speak to these things?

00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:06,720
So I've been pushing for that to happen. It's not, we're not quite there yet. There is a

00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:13,680
para climbing commission that's very active with, within IFSC that has para athletes represented

00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:19,200
on there. So I think that's great. And they do have input and they do make suggestions. And

00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:25,840
after each World Cup or World Championships, there's a meeting with the coaches and the route

00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:32,080
setters and we, we try and come together and discuss and just try and work with other federations

00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:38,240
and run training camps and attend each other's nationals. So I think we have Matty from

00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:42,880
Slovenia came over to the British Champs like back in September, which is great.

00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:51,200
We're hoping to head out to, to Spain to attend their nationals and we're hoping to,

00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:58,000
to go to some of the Swiss nationals. So I think there's a lot of cross collaboration within the

00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,120
para and we just, we just need a few more events, I think, which is great.

00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:10,880
Awesome. Okay. Yeah, I think that's everything I want to go over in terms of para climbing.

00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:18,000
There was one last thing that I think you mentioned, you had a lot of say on.

00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,560
Which I thought was interesting and that is the anti-doping laws.

00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,240
And that's something I'm not familiar with at all. I haven't looked into like rule books or

00:55:28,240 --> 00:55:32,400
anything about it. Do you want to give like a brief overview of that?

00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:39,360
Oh yeah, I see. I find another weird thing about me. I find anti-doping absolutely fascinating.

00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:46,960
So I think it was back in 1908, there was the first recorded dope and use at an Olympic games.

00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,920
And then people knew about it, but they, they, we didn't have any testing.

00:55:52,960 --> 00:56:00,960
And then WADA was formed in around 1999 and UK anti-doping came in after that. And that's when

00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:09,280
we started doing the prohibited lists and started doing the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:16,080
the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the discarded plates. So that's where

00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:23,440
I started looking at the ways people can do cheat. And there's been some cracking stories recently.

00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:30,960
The whole alliance on Armstrong and and Russia, obviously I just find the whole,

00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,840
the whole side of that, absolutely incredible. It's really interesting and fascinating.

00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:46,040
So, we basically you can comply as a sport you can decide to sign up to the code.

00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:51,240
Interestingly in America, NFL don't sign up to the code.

00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:52,240
That's quite interesting.

00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:56,560
And also CrossFit I don't think sign up CrossFit Games.

00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,640
I don't think he's covered by WADA.

00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,760
So I find all these little things fascinating.

00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:13,560
We sign up to WADA and then our national doping authority is UK anti-doping in the UK.

00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:20,080
And I so I'm the anti-doping officer and so I'm responsible for the training of the athletes

00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:25,840
and staff and coaches and athlete support personnel.

00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,240
And it's just incredible.

00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:29,920
It's just yeah, it's just brilliant.

00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,000
It's really interesting.

00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:38,880
So there's lots of ways you can check your medications and your supplements and a lot

00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:45,840
of climbing gyms have all these protein shakes with added protein in and actually 98% of

00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,200
inadvertent doping comes from supplement use.

00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:55,160
So we obviously promote a food first approach but anything with has got protein added into

00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:02,320
it or protein shake or you know a cliff bar anything that's got stuff added into it is

00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:08,320
actually a supplement and that presents a real anti-doping risk especially if you are

00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:16,520
a an elite athlete and you can you can be tested inside and outside of competition and

00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:22,720
the prohibited list is this fascinating document where it lists all the substances that are

00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,000
prohibited but not just that all the methods of how you can get them into your system as

00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,040
well that are prohibited.

00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:35,720
And it's just a real it's just a real real interesting and interesting topic and I just

00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:40,560
love going in and educating people around what they can and can't do and how to keep

00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:45,560
themselves safe really as an elite athlete.

00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:50,320
And yeah just another weird thing about me I guess.

00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:56,840
So what kind of what kind of testing do you guys do and like how often is it?

00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:02,280
So we have a testing pool so if you're on the national testing pool you need to submit

00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:09,560
your whereabouts and your whereabouts is this big diary where basically you need to specify

00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,560
an hour of each day of where you're going to be.

00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:18,120
Now I don't know about you but I would find that really difficult because my plans are

00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,160
always changing.

00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,280
As an elite athlete that's what it's kind of what you sign up for in order to keep your

00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:26,280
sport clean.

00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:32,720
So you submit an hour each day and then they basically can come and test you at any time

00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,120
in and out of competition.

00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:41,080
When we hosted the Edinburgh World Cup we provided testing at the event it's mandatory

00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:45,720
for any IFSC event you need to provide testing.

00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:51,160
And with the para side of things so I've accompanied a couple of athletes to testing control and

00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,720
gone through the testing process.

00:59:53,720 --> 01:00:00,040
And it's not it's not as scary as you think but yeah it's just fascinating and you have

01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:05,320
to choose your vessel and they they test one sample right there well not right there it

01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,600
goes off to the laboratory to be tested but then your second sample is kept in storage

01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:10,600
for 10 years.

01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:17,040
It's frozen and kept for 10 years because methods of getting illegal substances into

01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:23,000
your body is always evolving and antidoping is always trying to catch up with with how

01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,600
this substance has got in under the skin or got in through this system or got in through

01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:33,920
that system and then can be then linked to an improved performance or enhance you know

01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,320
enhance the sport essentially.

01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,400
So I just I just find it fascinating and I I quite I guess I feel quite privileged in

01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:47,280
order to try and help protect the sport and keep it keep it clean and keep keep all the

01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,240
athletes safe and on the right side.

01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,240
Well 10 years is a long time.

01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,440
Yeah I know it's crazy isn't it 10 years.

01:00:55,440 --> 01:01:02,000
I do I often go I often go to the thoughts of you know what what happens if there was

01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:07,280
no day open and everyone could just get jacked up on steroids and how how far could you push

01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,480
human limits.

01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:14,080
But it's probably not one to do.

01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:18,800
Yeah that yeah that could get weird really fast.

01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:24,240
Do we are like I don't know the history of doping within climbing.

01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,880
Are there cases where that has happened before?

01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:36,880
No very few to be honest I think the 2021 code introduced substances of abuse and that's

01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:43,520
more around habitual drug use so your cannabis your steroids your ecstasy that kind of thing

01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,240
and cocaine.

01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:51,520
And so they introduced this in the code in 2021 and it's more of a program to help athletes

01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:56,160
because sometimes I get real event blues.

01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:02,040
So you know when you've run a really big event or you've looked forward to a holiday or or

01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:06,160
you know something amazing has happened in your life and you've just had a great time

01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:13,600
and then you come back and hit reality and you just you just really down in the dumps

01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:20,120
and I think I don't know because obviously I'm not an athlete but I do I have had post

01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:24,640
event blues quite a few events where the events gone brilliant and you're just so thrilled

01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:29,920
and people have turned up and had a good time and the problems have been amazing the roots

01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:36,080
has done a great job everything's come together to make this perfect moment in time and then

01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:43,400
the next minute that's it is over and so I imagine it's probably similar for for Olympic

01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:49,920
athletes or anything you know they must have real real depressive bouts because what do

01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:58,720
you do now you've worked four years to achieve one goal you've achieved it where'd you go?

01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:06,000
So I'm they introduced this substances of abuse that gets you like a three month ban

01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:13,120
if you can prove that it wasn't you know it wasn't related to performance and it wasn't

01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:18,400
related to performance and that you could you can get it reduced to one month if you

01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:24,480
go on a drug rehabilitation program so it's quite it's quite interesting how the prohibited

01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:31,200
list is always evolving to what's going on in society but yeah the event blues is pretty

01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:37,520
it's pretty hard when you know it hits you sometimes I don't I don't get it every event

01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:45,200
but ones I'm really proud of it can take you know a week to kind of get back to normal

01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,120
and feel a bit normal like feel a bit more like myself.

01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:55,320
Yeah so are you saying that there's like no usage allowed for any substances like that?

01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:01,200
So there's two there's two main phrases we use in competition and out of competition

01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:07,280
so some substances will be banned at all times in and out of competition some will only be

01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:13,880
banned in competition and so some some you'll be able to use out of competition but you

01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:20,240
still need to be careful and then you can get like the main thing is around cold and

01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:26,000
flu medicine so if you're really ill and you're taking decongestants for example you do really

01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:32,320
need to check what ingredients are on or in your decongestants because some of them can

01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:36,400
have banned substances in because they open up the airways to help you breathe because

01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,600
that's the point of a decongestion if you're really ill and you need you need to breathe

01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:47,960
and you got a blocked nose and you need some support then in that sense so there's a great

01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:54,400
a great website called global draw and you can check medications from different countries

01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,280
it doesn't cover all the countries in the world but it does help you to minimize your

01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:02,400
risk of doping and a lot of the time it's having conversations with your doctors as

01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,440
well.

01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:09,400
Interestingly though the longevity of Parasport has thrown up an interesting conversation

01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:15,040
I've been having with UK Antidoping recently around go athletes going through the menopause

01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:22,720
and hormone replacement therapy and where that sits with Antidoping and whether or not

01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:29,400
you know there are therapeutic use exemptions for those that that needs specific hormone

01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:36,120
replacement therapy to help them through the menopause because there's a great difference

01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:41,760
between able-bodied and power climbers and a lot of power climbers are slightly older

01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,120
or have more longevity in their career I don't know whether that's just because they only

01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:51,000
do lead routes or if there's I haven't figured it out I think probably be a good piece of

01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:58,000
research to do but you do find that often the climbers are older or can sustain their

01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,120
climbing careers for longer on the power side of things and then yes thrown up around okay

01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:07,400
going through the menopause what happens now with regards to Antidoping is a really interesting

01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,480
conversation to have yeah and something people might not have considered before.

01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:20,320
I have never thought about that before I had no idea there were athletes in that age range

01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:27,920
that would be going through menopause so that's news to me for sure.

01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:32,960
It's still really impressive that they can climb at that level at the international level

01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:34,560
you know?

01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:40,400
Yeah I don't even I don't even know where to go with that like I haven't even thought

01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:47,920
about menopause in my life so I don't even know like I didn't even like you take drugs

01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,680
for that period of your life I don't know.

01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,600
You can do some people don't need them but some people do need assistance with hormone

01:06:55,600 --> 01:07:02,280
replacements the process you go through isn't as bad I guess but no I'm not well versed

01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,560
in that I mean we've got that to look forward to right?

01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:10,920
Yeah oh I do hope it's a long time from now.

01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:18,280
Me too but I was just highlighting that you know the breadth of what you deal with as

01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:26,120
a Antidoping Officer and how you can be helping people who just have ADHD and need therapeutic

01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:31,000
use exemption or those with asthma or hay fever and how they can you know manage their

01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:37,280
medication or find alternatives or get the appropriate exemptions so they continue using

01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:42,240
that and then yeah you've got this one to deal with hormone replacement therapy what

01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,040
do you do there?

01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:50,240
Geez yeah have you seen a lot of like accidental cases where like they ended up using something

01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:55,840
that they didn't realize would show up and be like a banned substance?

01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:01,320
Not in climbing but I think that's probably because we're still relatively young I'm not

01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:05,600
going to say new because climbing has been around for ages and climbing competitions

01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:11,600
have been around for ages I mean the IFSC was created back in 2004 so it's not like

01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:17,640
it's new but climbing as a sport is young on its Olympic journey compared to other sports

01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:26,920
so I don't think we've had very many cases if at all compared to other sports like weightlifting

01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:33,920
and athletics and bobsleigh and you know all the high press sports you hear in the news

01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:39,680
around 12 years later they finally got awarded the gold medal because the doping was finally

01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:48,840
proven and XYZ and I just don't know if climbers just come from that pure mountaineering sport

01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,640
and they just don't cheat.

01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:59,160
As a casual climber I can't even imagine what kind of drugs people would take in order to

01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:00,160
cheat.

01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:05,720
I mean I think on the on the parasitic things if you had so some conditions like multiple

01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:13,400
sclerosis you can take cannabinoids because they do help alleviate some symptoms so whether

01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:16,680
or not you could say that was performance enhancing is slightly different because if

01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:22,960
your tremors are gone or you know you could say it's performance enhancing in that way

01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:29,200
for that athlete because it's helping manage their condition so that's an interesting kind

01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:34,780
of take on things but I don't think we've had many cases at all.

01:09:34,780 --> 01:09:39,800
So is that would that be like banned in that case or is that okay as of the rules right

01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:40,800
now?

01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:47,320
It would be banned at the moment yeah they'd have to find an alternative which can be tricky

01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:51,120
depending on how severe your condition is it can be tricky.

01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:56,720
Alright so I think those were the questions I had but there were a few other questions

01:09:56,720 --> 01:10:03,360
for from the discord group so we'll get into those now it's more of like a grab bag of

01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:10,960
questions now in terms of yeah all of all of your experience any of your experience.

01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:19,020
So the first one how does the IFSC decide on where the competitions take place and what's

01:10:19,020 --> 01:10:24,840
in it for the national federations to hold these competitions?

01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:31,680
So application so IFSC run a system on applications you need to apply to host a World Cup or World

01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:36,840
Championships and the World Championships is voted on at the General Assembly so the

01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:41,960
General Assembly is where all the member federations come together and discuss many things to do

01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:48,040
with climbing it's normally it's great to see everyone and reconnect with other federations

01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:55,160
and the host venue or host federation does a presentation and go we want to host the

01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:59,280
World Championships or Youth World Championships for these reasons and here's why you should

01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:04,360
come and visit us and this is what we're going to do for the event etc etc but the World

01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:10,720
Cups are done on an application basis and they if you look at the cadence of the calendar

01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:15,960
you can see they try and group like an Asian leg a European leg and then a Pan-American

01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:23,200
leg mainly because we have a real drive to try and run sustainable competitions I appreciate

01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:27,680
they're not going to be that sustainable because people always have to travel but there are

01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:33,160
things that can be done to make the event sustainable in a way and then in terms of

01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:42,860
the National Federation oh just the opportunity to showcase you know your events it's a big

01:11:42,860 --> 01:11:51,840
stage hosting a World Cup it's such a privilege and you have such an opportunity just to host

01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:58,400
show off your host city on your country you also get additional quota places so if you

01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:04,120
are the host venue you can have additional places for additional athletes and that's

01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:09,560
a big opportunity if you're trying to build depth in your field depth in your team and

01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:14,080
you can give them this experience on home turf where they're not having to spend loads

01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:20,840
of money to travel to go overseas to compete where they get an opportunity to go you know

01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,680
and the Edinburgh World Cup last year we had additional places and the athletes you know

01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:31,000
they could come and climb and enter the competition and is that a home or that they use or a war

01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:36,280
that they can access regularly so they have a bit of an advantage and I think that's probably

01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:41,480
one of the biggest reasons but as well as having just having the privilege of having

01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:46,280
everyone come to your country I think it's a massive draw for National Federations to

01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:47,280
host definitely.

01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:54,360
Yeah I had never thought about just how much easier it must be for the athletes to just

01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:59,280
like be staying in like a hometown area yeah that makes a lot of sense.

01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:05,000
As a National Federation you can put in to have an apprentice route setter so some of

01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:10,120
your national route setters can get the opportunity to set so again you're then just increasing

01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:17,160
the exposure to your whole system so if your national setters are setting it international

01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:21,040
level events then they can bring that back into your national events and then you can

01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:25,920
improve your national events which improves your athlete experience which is improving

01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:32,640
closing the gap of performance between a national event and an international event and therefore

01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,080
your athletes just get more exposure to the holes to the moves to the setting standard

01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:43,600
and styles and that can only benefit them in the long run so there's wider and plus

01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:49,560
workforce development so your national judges will get exposure to an international level

01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:54,640
competition and judging and that experience again it all comes back into the system so

01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,280
it all helps you improve your national events.

01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:03,720
A lot of opportunities and experience it sounds like which yeah it makes sense I hadn't thought

01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:14,440
about that and you had also mentioned like environmental sustainability in terms of keeping

01:14:14,440 --> 01:14:20,120
the competitions within the same continent for a little while we actually had another

01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:26,600
question that was related to that how does the IFSC see the future of international comps

01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:35,960
in terms of environmental sustainability and whether they're trying to address that issue

01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:41,320
for example through like the building of new venues a source of equipment reusing items

01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,840
waste.

01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:49,840
I think I think everyone's trying to address it in their own way IFSC Europe have the sustainability

01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:56,800
award so each event organizer has to complete a questionnaire on basically what they've

01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:02,880
done to try and make the event sustainable as possible and there's three tiers bronze

01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:08,860
silver and gold the tiers are quite achievable although I don't think we've awarded a gold

01:15:08,860 --> 01:15:14,120
yet at European level but we've definitely got bronze and silver and it just it just

01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:21,600
puts it in the forefront because you think okay what can we do we host competitions across

01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:26,320
the world so everyone's going to travel to those events so we need to think how we can

01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:34,600
get there in a more sustainable way but actually you often find that yeah okay you think a

01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:40,360
train might be cheaper or might be greener but in the UK especially we use diesel trains

01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:45,560
a lot of the time so actually that's not that environmentally friendly compared to a plane

01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:52,400
where a lot of airlines now you can buy into this greener tariff so you offset some of

01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:58,320
your carbon footprint.

01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:06,400
As a federation we have our climate project so we're replanting sphagnum moss probably

01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:16,160
only useful in the UK with our peat bogs there's this great plant called sphagnum and basically

01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,560
it pulls carbon out of the atmosphere and it becomes a carbon sink and a lot of the

01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:27,080
peak district where I live has these peat bogs that are drying out and we've got a regeneration

01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:34,320
project underway to kind of help prevent water runoff and keep the bogs and help replant

01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:38,760
sphagnum which will hopefully draw carbon out of the atmosphere so those kind of projects

01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:45,880
that people could get involved with but it is high on the agenda for the IFSC and definitely

01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:54,640
in IFSC Europe with the sustainability award for event organisers which is good success.

01:16:54,640 --> 01:17:02,440
We're hoping to adopt some of it at our national events next year it just seems that government

01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:08,160
federations and that kind of thing they're all pushing to have some considerations for

01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:12,800
the environment moving forward so yeah we all have our part to play.

01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:17,800
There's a you know do you know about halls and walls there's halls and walls in Germany

01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:24,560
this year and we have our sustainability commission of IFSC Europe are doing a presentation around

01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:30,760
this exact topic and there's a really interesting talk going on around how you can reuse and

01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:37,440
re-texture holds so that you can extend the life of the holds that we're currently using

01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:43,360
so if anyone's in Germany they should check out halls and walls at the end of November.

01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:49,240
It's got some good talks going on around sustainability for climbing walls and climbing owners.

01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:55,600
Yeah I'll link it down in the description I'll get that from you after.

01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:01,360
Yeah I guess like do you know anything about how to like re-texture holds or like what

01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:06,040
is like the lifespan of a hold?

01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:12,680
Our head root setter Max he has a company called Contact Holds and they've started this

01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:19,120
basically in the UK where they will re-texture old holds to help improve the use of them

01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:22,840
and help to keep them being used rather than just being thrown away because the texture's

01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:28,240
gone so there are some really interesting products and there are some climbing walls

01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:34,920
I think in Germany that are carbon neutral or moving towards that way so it is at the

01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,320
forefront of the industry.

01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:41,040
I do think there are people that are trying things and doing things to make the whole

01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:47,720
sport more sustainable but yeah we all have our part to play and I think when you run

01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:51,640
events it's quite challenging because everyone has to get there somehow.

01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:57,680
Those things are sort of unavoidable and I'm sure not climbing specific but yeah we can

01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,520
all try to do our part.

01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:07,360
Alright so another question a bit lighter of a question maybe favorite and least favorite

01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,320
competition to work on.

01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:14,240
Yeah that's a really hard question I know it shouldn't be a hard question but it is

01:19:14,240 --> 01:19:15,680
a really hard question.

01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:21,880
I would say my favorite competition to work on if I was from a volunteer point of view

01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:26,440
was obviously the World Championships in Bern but if I was looking at it from my organizer

01:19:26,440 --> 01:19:33,040
point of view then it has to be the Edinburgh World Cup because I think to date that's been

01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:41,240
the pinnacle of my career so far especially as you know eight weeks I wouldn't recommend

01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:45,960
it to anyone doing it in eight weeks but the World Championships in Bern have been in the

01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,440
planning process of two years compared to it.

01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:55,560
I know the World Championships isn't the same as a World Cup but they were they've been

01:19:55,560 --> 01:20:03,080
planning that event for two years in the run up to doing it so yeah to do a World Cup in

01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:08,240
eight weeks I think is pretty cool but I wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:16,200
The least favorite oh see I'm trying to think of all the events I've been to even as a coach

01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,680
I can't think of one that was my least favorite.

01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:20,680
Maybe you've blocked it out.

01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:28,880
I probably have I think maybe my least favorite has probably been when something's gone really

01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:37,600
wrong and you can't control it so the flooding at the BBC's we had that one year that's probably

01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:41,920
been one of my least favorite because the crowd don't come and watch and everyone's

01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:48,400
getting wet and athletes are getting wet and it's miserable I think and the roofs leaking

01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:54,560
and the mats wet and you're like oh I think that's probably been one of my least favorite

01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:59,160
just because I can't control the weather as much as I'd like to thanks to Carden.

01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:04,640
Did the bouldering championship still just go on like fully as planned even with the

01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:05,640
flooding?

01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,640
Oh yes we're British we don't stop.

01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:12,680
We just carry on.

01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:19,560
I was just wondering because like for like the World Cup in Korea they canceled finals

01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:25,400
because of the rain so I wasn't sure if it could go on.

01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:30,360
We have a slight roof covering the wall so the athletes are dry no one else is dry but

01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:32,520
the athletes are dry at least.

01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:40,320
So I think a slight difference but it was interesting that it didn't carry on but again

01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:44,000
as an event organizer if you only have a set number of days it's really challenging to

01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:48,640
build flex into the system you know or is the weather going to be bad or I don't know

01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:54,680
do we need to build in an extra day and then you can't really give out a provisional timetable

01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:58,040
with okay if the weather's bad then we'll have this extra day because people have to

01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:06,720
book accommodation and travel and xyz but yeah we do have a bit of a roof on it just

01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:10,720
if it's really heavy there's no hope.

01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:18,160
All right and I think last question it's a pretty quick factual one so that should be

01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:19,160
pretty simple.

01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:26,200
What are the technical requirements for walls to host different types or levels of competitions

01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:34,560
including those which are beyond the wall itself so I guess like venue related as well.

01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:48,080
Yeah so I guess figures so standard boulder world cup will be on a 30 to 35 meter wall

01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:55,440
in in length and then you need four meters in height and then two and a half meters out

01:22:55,440 --> 01:23:02,840
for the matting from the highest point so that there's enough space for people to land

01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:09,680
so that's always quite a challenge I think and then height wise leading speed are kind

01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:13,520
of similar because you need at least 15 meters but you can't forget the dyno at the end of

01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:21,960
the speed wall the last little bit but 15 meters can be a challenge when you're trying

01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:26,720
to set and the speed will slightly overhang in and then the lead wall can be anything

01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:33,440
from five degrees all the way down to 40 degrees overhang.

01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:37,920
So it'd be really interesting to see where how the walls develop in the future and where

01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:44,400
they go like obviously the Olympic boulder wall is smaller that's only around 20 meters

01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:51,400
in length because it only fits for three problems on three four problems on there's a lot smaller

01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:59,440
than a world cup wall and then the lead wall again is is shorter in in width because you've

01:23:59,440 --> 01:24:07,560
only got to fit one two three four like six lines on it so the IFC do an event handbook

01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:14,520
where they list all their essential criteria and if you're in the northern hemisphere and

01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,280
you're outside your wall needs to face in a certain direction or your venue needs to

01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:24,760
be orientated in a certain direction so you don't get sun glare in terms of sound systems

01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:30,600
you can't have speakers like facing the wall they've got to be facing the crowds that it

01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:37,160
doesn't interfere with the athletes so they can focus and again with spotlighting as well

01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:43,600
you can't have the the matting where the boulder wall is and the lights underneath they can't

01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:48,520
be too close and because of the climbers and being in their eyes and there are quite a

01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:57,560
few I likened I liken burn to you uh you know if you went to a Broadway show when it got

01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:04,640
down to the the final bits of it you know the combined final or the boulder final where

01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,520
they're about to crown the world champion in bouldering I likened it a bit to a Broadway

01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:16,160
show in all the requirements that were needed for production for the for the stream and

01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:23,960
the and the tv and the broadcast from commentary from lighting from the sound system for the

01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:31,080
crowd to be able to do highlight reel so you can see appeals if you're judging and and

01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:36,640
the federation's putting an appeal to the scoring to the timing system yeah it's quite

01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:42,580
complicated when you drill down into all the bits that come together to make this perfect

01:25:42,580 --> 01:25:48,240
moment in time where you where you see some athletic prowess from some of the top climbers

01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:51,560
in the world it's pretty pretty incredible I'm not sure if that answered the question

01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:58,800
but essentially there are quite a few few behind the scenes technical stuff and then

01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:03,960
don't forget the warm-up space because the athletes need to get warm and if they're not

01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:11,400
getting warm then that doubles as the isolation space so they're isolation and and you got

01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:16,040
to think of the comfort because they could be in there for a good few hours in isolation

01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:19,280
depending on the number of athletes and you have to think of their comfort and the coaches

01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:24,920
comfort and is there enough space for them all to be in there at the same time because

01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:32,400
that's also a consideration and if you have any overlaps in your schedule then does that

01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:36,960
mean there's gonna be people overlapping in this in this area and so do you have enough

01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:42,680
space and is everything accessible if you've got para coming in you know are the toilets

01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:49,440
nearby yeah a lot goes a lot goes into making the events happen really a lot more than I

01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:57,760
think um a lot more than I think people understand yeah I mean that's hopefully why we had you

01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:03,000
on so that now people know oh yeah I hope so I hope we've done a good job and people

01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:07,680
found it interesting and I mean being an event organizer it's not for the faint-hearted

01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:12,520
but ah you have such a good time and you meet such a range of people and you get to work

01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:19,160
on some great great events and all the planning and all the sweat and tears is just completely

01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:26,880
worth it when you get those perfect moments of athletes doing what they do best yeah and

01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:35,600
the crowd go wild yeah yeah it does sound like a lot of fun and really quick question

01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:40,880
that just popped into my mind do you sort of have an estimate of like how much it costs

01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:46,920
to put on um like a world cup level event maybe yeah so a world cup can be anywhere

01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:52,560
in the region depending on what base facilities you have and what I mean by that is depending

01:27:52,560 --> 01:28:03,520
on if you own anything yourself as a federation so you can be anywhere from 80,000 upwards

01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:08,840
you also have the calendar fee so you have a fee to help to be on the calendar with the

01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:17,080
IFSC to make sure that you get the results service and the officials and the jury presidents

01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:22,640
and the route setters so you have that fee as well so it can be upwards of 80,000 plus

01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:29,400
is a lot of that um like the wall setup or it's just like everything adds up everything

01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:38,640
adds up so holds walls uh prize money route setting uh accommodation for all your staff

01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:45,800
food for all your staff um all the little bits like cherry pickets if you need to so

01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:58,360
you can work at height and podiums and yeah medals flower ceremonies djs sound systems

01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:07,080
um live streaming and broadcasting and so much that goes into it but I don't think I'd

01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:14,000
have any of it yeah okay awesome um well I think that's all of the questions that I had

01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:20,280
um thank you for joining me today um is there anything that you wanted to either like shout

01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:25,000
out or let people know where they can find you if they had any more questions oh yeah

01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:31,520
my my email address is listed on the bmc website under staff so if they had any questions about

01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:38,920
events or anything of anti-doping or para then yeah feel free to get in touch it's listed

01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:45,240
there it's it's not um it's out in the public domain it's not private people can by all

01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:50,120
means get in touch and um if they're ever at an event I'm normally the one running around

01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:56,080
so they can always say hello especially if I'm with the power climbing team because I'll

01:29:56,080 --> 01:30:00,720
be probably identifiable more identifiable if I'm with the power climbing team I reckon

01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:05,720
than if I'm running the event I'm probably in the background right yeah awesome yeah

01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:13,000
I'll leave that link um in the description for everything um and yeah if nothing else

01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:18,160
thank you again it was amazing to talk to you no thank you for having me and thanks

01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:22,480
for the questions they were really really good yeah I really enjoyed it thank you so

01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:27,040
much for making it to the end of the podcast if you're watching on youtube I would love

01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:32,280
to hear your discussion and thoughts in the comments below and don't forget to like and

01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:37,440
subscribe if you enjoyed if you're listening through a podcasting platform I'd appreciate

01:30:37,440 --> 01:30:42,440
if you rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion through my competition climbing

01:30:42,440 --> 01:30:48,600
discord um linked in all of the descriptions through all the platforms thanks again for

01:30:48,600 --> 01:31:06,200
listening