57: Jackie Hueftle, Pro Climbing League Routesetting Director

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No, I was awake for 25 hours on the day of the

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event. Part of my complaint when I was studying

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more of these events is we need more strong women

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and you need multiples of us and you need to

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let us do this part. You know, not that women

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can't suffer men and men can't suffer women,

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but I think what's wrong with letting some people

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specialize? Especially commercially, like you're

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studying at a climbing gym. You don't need to

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climb part of the B6 necessarily. It's a pro

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climbing league. It's not like the IFSC is great

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because they have a really serious job, which

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is selecting the Olympic athletes for our sport.

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We don't have that serious job. Our serious job

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is trying to do something fun for people to watch

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and for the athletes to compete in. Welcome to

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another episode of the That's Not World Climbing

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podcast. I'm your host, Jinni, and I'm excited

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to introduce my guest for today, Jackie Hueftle.

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Jackie was the routesetting director at the Pro Climbing

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League or PCL Comp and is also the co -founder

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of Kilter. In this episode, we'll learn more

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about the unique challenges that came with setting

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for PCL, why she thinks it's important to have

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more women setting for women's comps, and how

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you could maybe try climbing the exact same boulder

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set at PCL. I hope you enjoy this episode with

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Jackie. Please pardon this brief intermission,

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Now, back to the show. Yeah, how are you doing

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today? You're still in London, right? We're in

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Sheffield, actually. which is north a few hours

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of London. It's in the Peak District, which is

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the main climbing, well, I don't know if I could

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say main climbing area and get away with it,

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but it's a very popular climbing area in the

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UK. Wait, the comp didn't take place there? No,

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for the comp, we put everything in lorries and

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drove them to London and unloaded them and built

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everything in the venue and then had the comp

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and then took everything down that night and

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then put it back in lorries and then drove it

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back to Sheffield and then unloaded it. We're

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still here sorting it because we, you know, the

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comp had duplicate boulders. And so we had to

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have triplicate holds and volumes. So we had

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two for the boulders and one backup in case something

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went wrong with the holder volume. Like it got

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damaged in transit or like, I don't know, it

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blew a connection point or it broke somehow behind

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a wall or whatever could happen. I just wanted

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to make sure we had a backup. Yeah, that's a

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good idea. When do you finally get to go back

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home? It's been like a really long time since

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the end of the comp. It's like a month now. No,

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it's been like two weeks. Yeah. So it does feel

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like a while. No, we we so we both, you know,

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we finished the comp. We had a couple extra days

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with some of the other crew from PCL and then

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everybody left. And then. Me and Ian and Will

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Watkins from Unleashed Climbing and Super has

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been helping us too. Then the Core guys have

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been great. So we've been sorting stuff out,

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but we did like some customer visits. We had

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to sort stuff out for customers. And then we've

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been working in a warehouse. Core generously

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gave us space in their warehouse, but they also

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have, they're running like a flooring business.

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So there's like constantly a new maze every day

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of like big buns of foam and flooring pieces

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and our stuff and pallets. It's been a hectic

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and then we've been sick. Everybody's been sick

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for at least a few days. So I actually spent

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an entire day in bed this week, which I like

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normally don't don't do. But everyone's just

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kind of hit the wall. So. But it's cool, too.

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We're sorting everything out and there's a lot

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of interest in a lot of the different sets from

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the comp. So we're trying to get people the right

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pricing and the right options. And then we're

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going to have a copy of everything. Also, the

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setting center we're going to have either in.

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Colorado or we're working on building one in

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France um for it's like it'll be like a home

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with a barn with walls um so we'll send some

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materials to you should places too how much longer

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do you think it'll take yeah getting back home

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I don't know I mean we when we when we came over

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to look at the venue for PCL in October

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we came over for 10 days and we ended up staying

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for like almost three months in Europe because

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we have trade shows and we have distributors

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and partners to visit and so um and that was

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you know 2024 to winter of 2025 and then this

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year we were already over here for a few months

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uh in france and then um we've been here now

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for about a month we'd like to go home get some

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work done there but we're working on some stuff

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here too so it's like you just never know where

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the best place to be is when you have a lot of

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projects um but uh But we have a CWA trade show

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in the U .S. in April, so we're definitely going

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to be home for that. Where is it this year? It's

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in Salt Lake City. Okay, cool. Yeah, it's very

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cool. You should consider coming. There's a lot

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of cool industry talks and education and certification

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and stuff, and then also a big vendor trade show,

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so you can see all the new everything from everybody.

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Yeah, I've thought about going before. A while

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ago when I was thinking about maybe one day I

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would want to own a gym. And then I was like,

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I don't really have the money to own a gym. So

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maybe not. Yeah. I mean, one of the things about

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like we're trying to give people more options

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in several areas of the industry. And one of

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the things we're doing with our adjustable freestanding

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walls, like the walls of the comp were entirely

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freestanding, even though they were pretty, pretty

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big. And they adjust and that's our kilter boards

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do as well. So for boards like that, it's like

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much less of a commitment for you. If you were

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to rent a space, you could get a couple of those

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and put them in. And then if you wanted to change

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your layout or get a different space or sell

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them because you don't like the business or expand

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and move everything, you can just put them in

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crates and move them and build them again. So

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you're not like, you know, it's not as much of

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a commitment as like a built in wall that's like

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going to go down with the building, basically.

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So I guess like, what do you like? What do you

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mean by freestanding? Like, what does that mean?

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It means you don't have to attach them to the

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building structure in any way. So they don't

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need to be bolted to the ground or screwed into

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the wall. It's pretty common with even a freestanding

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frame. It means it has legs, basically. So it

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can stand on its own legs. And so there's different

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models on the market. Certainly, you can have

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one with legs and also add a couple of bolts

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or some concrete screws for a little added wiggle

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stability. And that's always nice, too. You know,

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you can do kind of a hybrid, but even that you

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can just cut the bolts off when you leave the

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space. And that's fairly common in commercial

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spaces to have the ability to add like shelving

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or materials like that. But our new walls, you

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don't even have to put anything in the floor

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if you don't want to. So you can, but you don't

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have to. I'm not going to ask the details of

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how that works physically, but that's good to

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know. And yeah, I guess going into these walls

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and kilter and everything related to that in

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your background, how did you get into climbing

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setting and this whole kilter thing? I got into

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climbing in high school and my mom was actually

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dating a climber for a long time. He was a climber

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and scuba diver and he started taking my brother

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climbing and I didn't want to go because I'd

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been climbing before and done climbing. And then

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I finally went again and then I fell in love

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with it immediately. And that was all I've done

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since. So and I got, you know, like most gyms

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in the late 90s, it wasn't a robust route setting

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program in place. So, you know, they decided

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they wanted to teach some people from the gym

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and I was invited to come to the class and I

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really loved it. And so I've been doing it ever

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since. So that was in 1998, both those things.

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And then six years later, I moved to Boulder,

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Colorado and applied at all the gyms before I

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even arrived because I'd been working at a gym

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for six years at that point. And, you know, later

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I learned it's fairly hard to show up in Boulder

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and just start getting a route setting job at

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the gyms because a lot of people have that skill

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set or some form of it and they want to set.

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But I got a job coaching the spot. and working

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the desk. And within like a month, the head setter

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at the time let me set a climb for a comp they

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were having. And I set one climb and he looked

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at it and he goes, oh, okay. And he hired me.

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So then I worked in the setting program at the

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spot. And then later I became the head setter

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at the spot for several years. And that was really

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fun. We did a lot of comps. We did like four

00:09:10.259 --> 00:09:13.340
pretty big comps every year. Each one of our

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comps had a big red point round and a pro finals.

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And at the time in Boulder, you know, the athletes

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we were setting this pro final for were like

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Daniel Woods and Dave Graham and Paul Robinson

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and Maddie Hong. And then, you know, Alex Puccio

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and Megan Mascarenas and Nina Williams. So it

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was like, this was like when Megan was winning

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the world cups. Like this was like the highest

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level of athlete that there was at the time,

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basically. So it was very cool thing to do. And

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it actually like pulled me away from, I'd been

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setting. like seeking out setting bigger comps

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like I'd set some youth nationals and I'd set

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some pro comps the ones on the trade show you

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know on the roof I'd set a few few years of that

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um we did the outside on this parking garage

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roof and it was like this big light show and

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it was a pretty big event um I love doing those

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things but doing like just hiding running our

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own events at my own gym was something I really

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enjoyed and then I also like built a route setting

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program and built a mentorship program and, you

00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:13.899
know, made documentation of the skill sets I

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wanted my setters to have and all this stuff

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that I thought was really important or she'll

00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:21.379
think is really important. Um, but then, um,

00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.220
well, two things. One is we had a big outdoor

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comp, uh, before I was head setter called the

00:10:27.019 --> 00:10:28.899
battle in the bubble and it was an invite and

00:10:28.899 --> 00:10:32.870
it was a cool, like. It was battle mode. It wasn't

00:10:32.870 --> 00:10:34.870
head to head like PCL. There weren't two identical

00:10:34.870 --> 00:10:37.429
problems. It was head to head like the two athletes

00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:40.169
of the final final took turns trying to do it

00:10:40.169 --> 00:10:42.610
first. So it's just like one after the other,

00:10:42.629 --> 00:10:43.909
like if one fell off, the other one could get

00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:48.070
on. And it was we had the comp outdoors on the

00:10:48.070 --> 00:10:50.029
shores of the Boulder Reservoir. And we had like

00:10:50.029 --> 00:10:52.350
the first the start hold was like brought in

00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:54.610
by a skydiver and then like bolted to the wall.

00:10:54.669 --> 00:10:57.330
And like it was an elimination comp. So we had

00:10:57.330 --> 00:10:59.190
like eight people in the first boulder and like.

00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.919
five on the second boulder and three on the third

00:11:02.919 --> 00:11:05.379
boulder and then two on the final boulder um

00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:08.000
and it was just a really cool show and it made

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.379
me feel like yeah we can definitely do more with

00:11:11.379 --> 00:11:13.659
comps than kind of what's been happening and

00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:16.899
i think like ifsc stuff is super great for the

00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:19.019
olympic track and we support the ifsc at kilter

00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:22.320
but um Also, the athletes need more opportunities

00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.639
and trying to create those for them through something

00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.940
that's like more flashy and like publicly really

00:11:27.940 --> 00:11:30.480
appealing, even for non -climbers. Yeah. How

00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.159
did you eventually like end up at Kilter? So

00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:35.259
I was the head setter at the spot and Ian Powell,

00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.179
who I'd known from when I first moved to Boulder

00:11:37.179 --> 00:11:40.279
because he had been an artist in town. He worked

00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:42.240
at the wall company that was next to the spot.

00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.139
And then he also helped coach the women's team

00:11:45.139 --> 00:11:47.820
I was on for a little bit. And then he disappeared

00:11:47.820 --> 00:11:50.379
for a while, but he came back to the scene. um

00:11:50.379 --> 00:11:52.320
you can like read about him if you want he had

00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.799
an adventurous few years and he was working at

00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.179
the spot and he was like stripping the walls

00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:02.019
for us and washing all the holds and um so he

00:12:02.019 --> 00:12:03.600
got a good feel for what was out there in terms

00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.860
of climbing holds and he had been shaping climbing

00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:07.980
holds since the late 80s and he'd had his own

00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.899
company and before that he then sold just e -grips

00:12:10.899 --> 00:12:12.820
it's now called trango because trango had bought

00:12:12.820 --> 00:12:15.580
it and they just renamed it the other year um

00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:19.620
and so anyway we were friends and he started

00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.500
shaping again behind the walls of the spot actually

00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:24.720
so i'd like go into work and he will like strip

00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.419
the wall for us and wash the holds then he'd

00:12:26.419 --> 00:12:28.340
like be behind the wall somewhere shaping holds

00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:31.559
and the hold market at the time was pretty stale

00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.220
um i'd been had a pretty robust blog for the

00:12:35.220 --> 00:12:38.019
spot that included like you know move by move

00:12:38.019 --> 00:12:41.980
evaluations of world cups uh events and the athletes

00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:44.899
and then also we did some hold reviews and we

00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:46.840
talked about like route setting concepts and

00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.240
all these things that weren't really well documented

00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:53.120
at the time and uh and so i kind of knew what

00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.100
was out there for new holds at the time and it

00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:58.019
was feeling pretty stale and like you know

00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:02.059
2012 and then ian came back and started shaping

00:13:02.059 --> 00:13:04.460
and it was just really exciting to like see some

00:13:04.460 --> 00:13:06.899
new good stuff again so when he got the first

00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:09.019
sets back in plastic i started helping sell them

00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:12.320
um and then that turned into him and i and a

00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.720
third partner forming a company together and

00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:18.940
then um We later bought that third partner out

00:13:18.940 --> 00:13:24.299
and had another new CFO, basically, who's our

00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:29.779
third partner now. And yeah, in about 2017 or

00:13:29.779 --> 00:13:32.259
I think 2018, I got one foot out of the spot

00:13:32.259 --> 00:13:33.899
boat, as it were, and put both feet in the kilter

00:13:33.899 --> 00:13:35.580
boat. So I was kind of doing both jobs for quite

00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:38.139
a while there. And then I've been full -time

00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:40.620
kilter since then. Awesome. So I guess you kind

00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.720
of went down that path instead of, I guess, trying

00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:46.279
to shoot for like an IFSC route center path?

00:13:46.669 --> 00:13:50.129
Yeah. I mean, the system for that was really

00:13:50.129 --> 00:13:52.309
undeveloped at the time and it was very like

00:13:52.309 --> 00:13:57.129
political. And I definitely didn't get along

00:13:57.129 --> 00:14:00.529
with the people I needed to suck up to to get

00:14:00.529 --> 00:14:04.250
those jobs. That's what it's like. Yeah. Well,

00:14:04.409 --> 00:14:06.210
it was. And in the U .S. especially, there was

00:14:06.210 --> 00:14:08.370
like a couple of people kind of controlling everything

00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:11.090
and like sitting on. like essentially positions

00:14:11.090 --> 00:14:13.529
of power for themselves and not really mentoring

00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:15.409
others. So there's like other good setters that

00:14:15.409 --> 00:14:17.409
U .S. could have in IFSC that didn't really get

00:14:17.409 --> 00:14:21.570
the chance at the time. And that's kind of changed

00:14:21.570 --> 00:14:23.149
too, I think. More people are getting opportunities

00:14:23.149 --> 00:14:25.649
now. But yeah, there was kind of a period of,

00:14:25.649 --> 00:14:28.230
I couldn't play the game that I had to play and

00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:30.710
I thought it was inappropriate to ask people

00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.929
to play that game, basically. So I, you know,

00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:36.549
like I said, I was setting bigger comps. I enjoyed

00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:39.200
doing that, but... Especially at the time, it

00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:44.620
was overworked, underpaid, paid super late, super

00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:50.639
unorganized events. And it was fun, but having

00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.720
my own gym where I could control the events,

00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:55.539
plan them, make sure we had the right resources,

00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.379
make sure my setting team got to go home at a

00:14:57.379 --> 00:14:59.159
reasonable hour and worked a reasonable kinds

00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.100
of hours and we had a good result. And we were

00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.779
still setting for these top athletes. That was

00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:08.429
plenty to keep me happy. We did. uh world cup

00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:10.250
like special set every year because the world

00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:11.870
cup is in veil so all the athletes would come

00:15:11.870 --> 00:15:13.809
to boulder for a week or so before and so we

00:15:13.809 --> 00:15:15.590
would do like special sets for them so that was

00:15:15.590 --> 00:15:17.350
really fun to watch those athletes in the gym

00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:21.590
on the stuff we set for them and we um yeah i

00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.190
really enjoyed that period of time and then like

00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:26.629
since then and since kilter and since i'm not

00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:29.549
setting it to spot all the time uh i try to do

00:15:29.549 --> 00:15:31.649
like a couple events like one event or two events

00:15:31.649 --> 00:15:33.690
a year so i'll do like a clinic and an event

00:15:33.690 --> 00:15:36.789
a special pump or something um We started Woman

00:15:36.789 --> 00:15:39.570
Up in 2017 with Touchstone, which is an all -female

00:15:39.570 --> 00:15:41.830
and non -binary setting crew. Oh, I didn't know

00:15:41.830 --> 00:15:45.929
you started it. Yeah, they Touchstone crew and

00:15:45.929 --> 00:15:50.110
I came up with it, basically. Oh, cool. Yeah,

00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:52.490
I've been. It's cool. Oh, yeah. So they're an

00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:55.549
old head setter. And then the women, they're

00:15:55.549 --> 00:15:57.210
like a ton of amazing women that work at Touchstone.

00:15:57.409 --> 00:15:59.230
And so we were kind of like trying to pitch it.

00:15:59.330 --> 00:16:00.789
And then they were like really excited about

00:16:00.789 --> 00:16:02.470
making it a whole thing. And then they invited

00:16:02.470 --> 00:16:06.070
me to come be the chief setter, which was fantastic.

00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.419
which is, you know, what I wanted to do. And

00:16:09.419 --> 00:16:11.779
the team I picked the first year, there were

00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:17.779
only like seven women I knew. Actually, I mean,

00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:20.000
six women I knew that were even at the time,

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.100
like thought were able to do that kind of event.

00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:24.700
We had like 70 boulder problems or 65 and then

00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:27.460
pro finals. So I invited them and then there

00:16:27.460 --> 00:16:29.860
was like one more. I didn't know that the previous

00:16:29.860 --> 00:16:31.899
head center touchdown knew her and suggested

00:16:31.899 --> 00:16:35.259
her. So that was the first year there was seven

00:16:35.259 --> 00:16:38.600
of us. And none of them worked at Touchstone

00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.259
because they just didn't have any women setters

00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:44.340
at the time. And then the second year, we were

00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:48.440
in LA and there was 11 setters and three of them

00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.340
were Touchstone staff. And it was like, awesome.

00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:52.860
And Touchstone's, I can't say enough good things

00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.139
about the crew there and what they did for women's

00:16:56.139 --> 00:16:58.460
setting, not just for their own gym, but in general

00:16:58.460 --> 00:17:00.419
and what they did by supporting this event because

00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:02.879
it's not been... You know, I think it's a really

00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.660
big event. I think it's pretty expensive. And

00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:06.359
I think that they just do it as an active service

00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.539
for the community. And they like pay you enough

00:17:10.539 --> 00:17:14.019
to make it like to justify being there. You know,

00:17:14.019 --> 00:17:15.539
we would do it for free because we think it's

00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:17.000
cool, but we shouldn't be doing these things

00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.740
for free either. And like and they, you know,

00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:23.980
create like there's like just a lot of cool like

00:17:23.980 --> 00:17:26.900
activations for brands and integrations for community.

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:29.500
And like they have so many groups they support.

00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.740
um that are doing other cool things for the community

00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:35.460
indirectly so they're supporting them and then

00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:37.839
those those groups are doing like bringing people

00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.839
outside of you know different um genders and

00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:47.059
different backgrounds and different like i don't

00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:49.940
know they're trying to create more access for

00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:52.559
people of all types basically and then based

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.660
on i guess your experience in the past with route

00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:58.480
setting do you feel like um it's changed a lot

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.740
from back then like do you think it's a lot better

00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:03.859
like people aren't um getting super underpaid

00:18:03.859 --> 00:18:06.779
super overworked oh i think it's getting better

00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:10.759
it's still hard yeah i think it's a hard job

00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:12.880
and i think if you haven't done the job you don't

00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.180
understand how tiring it is and if you have done

00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:16.599
it but then you haven't done it for a while you

00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.920
forget how tiring it is um so i think it's like

00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.460
it still could be paid more but i do think it's

00:18:22.460 --> 00:18:26.279
improved um like i said there was The only women

00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:27.619
I could think of that I thought could do the

00:18:27.619 --> 00:18:29.599
job, basically, with the exception of Molly Beard,

00:18:29.619 --> 00:18:32.000
who's been doing it for much longer than me and

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.660
set the last nationals I competed in, for example.

00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.099
We didn't have her just because she achieved

00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:39.220
so many events. We were trying to create opportunities

00:18:39.220 --> 00:18:42.599
for more setters to come and have positions of

00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:44.519
responsibility. And then we had a bunch of clinics

00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.619
also from the first woman up and still continue

00:18:46.619 --> 00:18:50.180
to do so to teach people. So besides Molly, the

00:18:50.180 --> 00:18:52.650
only other women that I knew that. really could

00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:54.390
do an event like that were invited for the first

00:18:54.390 --> 00:18:55.710
one. And like I said, for the second one, it

00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:57.789
was, we've got some more women that we'd met

00:18:57.789 --> 00:19:01.309
that had been setting and some touchstone people.

00:19:01.470 --> 00:19:03.329
And the third one, it was like half touchstone

00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:06.230
employees and half other setters. And then the

00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:08.309
fourth one was all touchstone employees, except

00:19:08.309 --> 00:19:10.190
for Sarah Filler, who chiefed, and she'd done

00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:11.710
the first three with us. She was interned the

00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:13.670
first year and assisted the next year and then

00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:18.230
chief the fourth year. And then now they do a

00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:20.579
application process. because there's so many

00:19:20.579 --> 00:19:22.720
interested parties. And so I was chief for three

00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.900
years and then stepped away because I feel like,

00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.460
again, like there's cool opportunities there.

00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.619
It's a teaching event in many ways. And we wanted

00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:33.740
people to progress through the steps of being

00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:35.599
at the event and then being an assistant at the

00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.380
event and then being like a. in a position of

00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:40.980
more responsibility at the event and different

00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.160
people getting to chief. Yeah. So, and then we,

00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.079
again, like we teach clinics for the public and

00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:48.819
for staff and I've seen, you know, some of those

00:19:48.819 --> 00:19:50.680
people we've seen again, like being on the crew

00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:55.140
even in the future. So yeah, in the US and Canada,

00:19:55.180 --> 00:19:56.500
I was just speaking to another setter about this

00:19:56.500 --> 00:19:58.619
last night. I think it's gotten way better for

00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:00.539
female setting and non -binary setting. Like

00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:03.460
it's just normalized. I think over here in Europe,

00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.460
they're like trying. And there's some like pretty

00:20:07.460 --> 00:20:09.799
active women, but still in the whole, it's like

00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:16.359
behind or there's fewer still. It's not as normalized

00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:18.319
and they would like to have more women, but they're

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:19.759
kind of struggling to find them. And I think

00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:21.960
women don't feel as comfortable also getting

00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.000
into the sport. And then there's a lot of attitude

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:28.019
of like, if you can't climb super hard, you shouldn't

00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:30.160
be route setting. And I don't agree with that

00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:32.680
because especially commercially, like you're

00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.220
setting at a climbing gym, you don't need to.

00:20:35.859 --> 00:20:38.480
climb part of the V6 necessarily. There need

00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.839
to be a few people on the crew that do, but you

00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.660
can split your labor up so nobody's doing way

00:20:43.660 --> 00:20:45.220
too much of the work and you're getting a good

00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:47.720
product because you need a good product for all

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.299
of the abilities of climber in your gym, not

00:20:49.299 --> 00:20:52.559
just the strongest. Interesting. But you feel

00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.880
like being able to climb V6 is kind of like something

00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.359
you need in order to be a route center? No, not

00:20:58.359 --> 00:20:59.960
necessarily. I should have picked a slightly

00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.259
lower number. So if you look at a bell curve

00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:06.460
for what you would want in a gym, you know, and

00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:08.200
the majority of people come into the gym, you

00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.940
have a really heavy concentration of use from

00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:15.359
like V2 to V6, V4 to V6, because people are like

00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.359
either warming up, climbing or projecting those

00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.480
grades. You know, like if you're like climbing

00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:23.140
V4, you're going to like warm up on V2 and then

00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:25.500
you're going to like project V4 or, you know,

00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.700
project V5 sometimes. I'm just picking a number.

00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.960
And that's right in that belt, that like heavy

00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:34.220
part of the curve. So yes, you need to have things

00:21:34.220 --> 00:21:36.279
for your strongest climbers and things for people

00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.960
to aspire to, and you need to have things for

00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.880
your beginner climbers. But one thing that is

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.099
getting, again, improved, but it was hard for

00:21:43.099 --> 00:21:46.539
a long time, some gyms have always been good

00:21:46.539 --> 00:21:48.339
at it and a lot of gyms struggle with it, is

00:21:48.339 --> 00:21:51.400
those lower level climbs. Because people are

00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:53.079
coming into the gym and they want to try climbing,

00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:55.650
and then what does that mean? They want to try

00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:57.789
climbing and then ideally we give them a reason

00:21:57.789 --> 00:21:59.710
to enjoy climbing and want to come back, which

00:21:59.710 --> 00:22:01.369
means that they get to try something that makes

00:22:01.369 --> 00:22:03.529
them inspired to try something else, to try something

00:22:03.529 --> 00:22:05.390
harder, to try something harder and feel like

00:22:05.390 --> 00:22:07.769
if they come back, they could do it. To feel

00:22:07.769 --> 00:22:10.589
like they did something, like there's somewhere

00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:13.269
to go, there's progression and it's intriguing

00:22:13.269 --> 00:22:16.750
to get that progression. Versus like I said,

00:22:16.789 --> 00:22:18.490
when I was a teenager, the first time I'd climbed,

00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:22.089
I liked it, but then I thought I'd done climbing.

00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.140
you know and then when I it wasn't until I went

00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:26.380
back that I was like oh there's like a whole

00:22:26.380 --> 00:22:28.720
world of infinite possibility here that I want

00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:31.359
to explore yeah that makes sense and I guess

00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:35.000
along the lines of um like women in setting one

00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:36.960
of the audience questions that had come in was

00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.519
um it's very cool that a woman is the route setting

00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.299
director for PCL um what has your experience

00:22:44.299 --> 00:22:46.400
been like in that role and how did you build

00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.690
the route setting team ah um okay so The reason

00:22:50.690 --> 00:22:52.430
we made a route setting director position in

00:22:52.430 --> 00:22:53.950
the first place, which I think is important to

00:22:53.950 --> 00:22:56.670
mention, is that originally when we did the test

00:22:56.670 --> 00:23:00.130
events, I was the chief setter and I was so busy

00:23:00.130 --> 00:23:03.109
trying to organize like the comps kind of complex

00:23:03.109 --> 00:23:05.390
and kind of organize everything that it was clear

00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:07.369
that it wasn't really appropriate to have me

00:23:07.369 --> 00:23:11.450
expecting to like A, set things and B, D, like

00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:14.109
the last voice of overview as to what was being

00:23:14.109 --> 00:23:15.869
set. Like we needed a chief setter to keep an

00:23:15.869 --> 00:23:18.890
eye on the range and the level and make sure

00:23:18.890 --> 00:23:21.160
that like. the little details of the setting

00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.559
were covered. And that if I was being pulled

00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:25.960
away constantly to deal with everything else

00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:28.119
related to the comp as well and integrating the

00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.640
setting, that I couldn't do both well. So we

00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:33.440
created a setting position and realized we needed

00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:39.640
another headsetter. And so I didn't actually

00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.980
set this event because I wasn't expecting to,

00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:45.279
but I wanted a team that I felt could understand

00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.240
the complexity of setting this event, which is

00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.160
just like, you can ask them uh i can try to explain

00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.180
it basically it seems simple but then when you're

00:23:54.180 --> 00:23:56.019
like doing it you're like start to cross your

00:23:56.019 --> 00:23:57.220
eyes because you're trying to think about like

00:23:57.220 --> 00:23:59.980
okay how do we like plan you know the first couple

00:23:59.980 --> 00:24:02.259
ones we set to we did like hidden holds that

00:24:02.259 --> 00:24:04.700
we were revealed by removing a volume or covered

00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:08.059
up with a volume or rotated the volume so there

00:24:08.059 --> 00:24:10.539
was like kind of how do you morph the wall from

00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:13.339
one pop to another efficiently and what you have

00:24:13.339 --> 00:24:18.579
to have in mind to do that and so um So we created

00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:20.500
a director position and then the setting team,

00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.480
we went around a lot about what we needed the

00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:28.079
setting team to be. So the first person that

00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.220
was on the team was Matt Birch, who worked with

00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:33.980
me at a couple of the test events in Colorado

00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:36.940
that we did. And he's an English legend, been

00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.839
climbing since the 80s, climbed V12 in the early

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.559
90s, climbed V14, put up the Swarm in Bishop

00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:46.779
and was pretty famous in the early 2000s. kind

00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:48.700
of a legendary strong climber and he's also been

00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:50.079
a route setter for a long time used to work at

00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.180
touchstone also um he lives in colorado now he's

00:24:53.180 --> 00:24:55.440
the head setter at a gym called butt stone and

00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.880
uh i just think matt's a really good setter i

00:24:57.880 --> 00:24:59.940
like his style a lot he's like an old school

00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.420
style setter he's very good at setting power

00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:08.000
tension climbing and if you look at um his comp

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.420
his gym's comp every year has like colin duffy

00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:13.089
and you know, Ben Hannon, like strong American

00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:15.609
climbers come compete in this event. So he separates

00:25:15.609 --> 00:25:17.809
these guys every year and broke Rabatou and,

00:25:17.890 --> 00:25:22.170
you know, US team members. So I knew he could

00:25:22.170 --> 00:25:23.869
do the level and I think he's a great setter.

00:25:23.910 --> 00:25:27.430
So Matt was a yes for sure. And then we started

00:25:27.430 --> 00:25:29.710
being like, all right, who else? You know, it

00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:31.490
was kind of short notice. So some people's schedules

00:25:31.490 --> 00:25:33.529
were busy also, but we were like, who would be

00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:36.069
a good head setter to, you know, somebody that's

00:25:36.069 --> 00:25:38.509
going to be able to listen to the information

00:25:38.509 --> 00:25:41.369
from. Me and Matt and also the information from

00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:43.789
Charlie and Danon, who are the founders of PCL,

00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:45.250
because they had certain things they wanted to

00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.250
see. So I had a video call with Sergio, who we

00:25:48.250 --> 00:25:50.329
ended up choosing to be chief after he was recommended.

00:25:50.869 --> 00:25:53.769
I talked through a little bit what we're doing

00:25:53.769 --> 00:25:56.309
with him. I really liked his manner and his curiosity.

00:25:56.329 --> 00:25:59.690
I think he was interested in trying something

00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:02.329
new. He was open to the information we had for

00:26:02.329 --> 00:26:05.670
him and the requirements that, you know, different

00:26:05.670 --> 00:26:10.190
interested parties had for it. So we decided

00:26:10.190 --> 00:26:12.849
to choose him to be the chief because I felt

00:26:12.849 --> 00:26:16.690
that we could work with him. And then the other

00:26:16.690 --> 00:26:20.730
two setters, well, the other three, we brought

00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:23.529
in like in cooperation with him. So Maylis, who's

00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:25.210
actually his partner, but she's also just a super

00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:27.430
highly ranked female setter, one of the highest

00:26:27.430 --> 00:26:29.650
ranked in the world, I think, and most respected.

00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:34.380
And then Vojta from... prog who's a newer setter

00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:36.900
like to me but he's been around a bit he does

00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:40.140
a lot of different events a great kid and then

00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:42.960
stefan scraperi who i remember setting for when

00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.599
he was a competitor uh he was on the world team

00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.579
he was strong then he might be stronger now he's

00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:53.319
just like a monster uh he's just quiet even -tempered

00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.359
italian guy who's a really good route setter

00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.599
he's chief like he chief arco recently that did

00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:59.579
a dual format so he had some experience with

00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:03.500
that as well um Some setters are super fast and

00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:06.539
he's one of them and he did a great job. So we

00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:09.599
were really, um, happy with the team overall.

00:27:09.740 --> 00:27:11.960
And we had like a few, like Matt was sick and

00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:13.779
then Maylee's was sick. And, you know, there's

00:27:13.779 --> 00:27:17.119
a few other things that happened. Uh, but overall

00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.059
they did really well together. And I think, um,

00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:24.000
took the brief that was offered to them by me

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.660
and by Charlie and Dan and by Sergio also taking

00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:29.180
the information he had and sharing with them.

00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.680
And then they just did their best to. really

00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.140
think about what was going to happen with the

00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:35.740
event and how it could go. And, you know, they

00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:38.160
were super engaged the entire time with the changeover

00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:39.980
and the changeover volunteers and trying to improve

00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:42.500
that process. And they were super engaged with

00:27:42.500 --> 00:27:44.500
the actual event. And since then, you know, we've

00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:48.660
talked a bunch about what to do for the next

00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:51.740
one, how to make it better. And so I think, you

00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:55.220
know, I don't really care what anybody tells

00:27:55.220 --> 00:27:58.329
you. route setting is educated guessing and you

00:27:58.329 --> 00:28:00.589
get a calibrator in your head and if your calibrator

00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:02.450
is good you do a little better job at that unless

00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:06.109
you're really unlucky um but it's you use all

00:28:06.109 --> 00:28:07.990
the tools you have at your disposal to do the

00:28:07.990 --> 00:28:11.630
best job you can do in any given job and um you

00:28:11.630 --> 00:28:14.230
know for me also like i'm not currently studying

00:28:14.230 --> 00:28:16.710
that the highest for highest level athletes all

00:28:16.710 --> 00:28:18.089
the time and i haven't been paying attention

00:28:18.089 --> 00:28:20.170
to them so like i could not tell you right now

00:28:20.170 --> 00:28:23.450
with any certainty at all if yanni can do this

00:28:23.450 --> 00:28:26.359
or that but These guys have been setting events

00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.140
that she's in regularly, so they're more on the

00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:32.380
level of what can Yanni and Orion do? How do

00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:35.079
we separate them? Where's Lucia at? Where's Jenny

00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:39.119
at? How do we give those athletes a shot to push,

00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:44.180
challenge these top athletes? And so we needed

00:28:44.180 --> 00:28:47.000
to have a team that was familiar with those guys

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.079
as well. There's going to be a lot of information

00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.049
coming at this person. As a longtime setter,

00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:54.690
notoriously, we don't like a ton of too much

00:28:54.690 --> 00:28:56.410
information because it makes it complicated to

00:28:56.410 --> 00:28:58.690
do your job. So part of my job was trying to

00:28:58.690 --> 00:29:01.849
protect the setting team from being overwhelmed

00:29:01.849 --> 00:29:03.670
by the information, but also make sure they got

00:29:03.670 --> 00:29:05.869
the correct information so they could do the

00:29:05.869 --> 00:29:09.089
best job they could do. If we didn't tell them

00:29:09.089 --> 00:29:13.119
enough about how this... format plays out it

00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:14.480
wouldn't really be fair to them because they

00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:16.160
were going to have to guess which they had ever

00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.240
it's always educated guessing but they just weren't

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.779
going to have enough information to even try

00:29:19.779 --> 00:29:21.819
to do a good job like they would try to do a

00:29:21.819 --> 00:29:23.299
good job but it would be really hard if there

00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:24.700
was something you just didn't tell them like

00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:29.019
oh actually if you you know set a run across

00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:31.519
at the first in the beginning of this thing like

00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.019
we're not going to be able to score it and so

00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:35.319
there'll be a lot of ties and like it'll be weird

00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:39.180
or true like We can move the wall angles if you

00:29:39.180 --> 00:29:41.299
need to to change the difficulty, so we want

00:29:41.299 --> 00:29:44.579
to be planning for that. Or the way the seating

00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:46.519
works. We need to tell them how the seating works

00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:48.039
so they know which athletes they have so it's

00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.460
not like the bottom four seats can't do anything

00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:52.579
and only the top four seats can and it's super

00:29:52.579 --> 00:29:56.440
boring. As it was, some of the women's climbs

00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:59.640
got climbed a little fast, but it was partially

00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.799
luck of the draw. Partially, the friction was

00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:04.539
super good on the stage for some reason and it

00:30:04.539 --> 00:30:08.319
should have been worse than the venue. Partially

00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.019
some of the best climbers in the world who were

00:30:10.019 --> 00:30:14.460
really motivated to win. And so I think like

00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:17.240
if we'd seen a full World Cup field on the boulders,

00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.359
they would have been perceived differently because

00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:20.720
there would have been the spread people were

00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:22.700
expecting. But when you have the two best in

00:30:22.700 --> 00:30:25.920
the world, it's a very fine line for how to make

00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.019
sure they can really do it or throw down on it

00:30:29.019 --> 00:30:30.819
versus just getting completely shut down because

00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:35.339
you've overshot versus, you know. And Oriane

00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:38.339
stuck a move that Yanya didn't stick. And, you

00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:40.299
know, the athletes for the athletes, this format's

00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:42.880
new as well. So then the question is, should

00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:44.940
she get back on and try to win? Like, could she?

00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:47.500
Probably. Should she? Maybe. What does it look

00:30:47.500 --> 00:30:49.559
like for her if she falls off again? What does

00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:51.619
it look like if, you know, is it worth watching

00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:53.559
Oriane to understand the best way to do the boulder?

00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:55.440
Because Oriane might slip and then she can beat

00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.319
her. So it's just. I think the athletes themselves

00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:00.240
are going to have some strategy to consider for

00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.519
this event. How did the experience compare to

00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.720
setting other comps? Like, did you feel more

00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:07.980
pressure setting for this than other comps? Or,

00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:09.680
I mean, not you physically setting. Well, no,

00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:11.759
the thing is I didn't because I wasn't setting.

00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.200
I was kind of trying to balance, like, knowing

00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.180
a lot about the format and making sure they had

00:31:16.180 --> 00:31:17.579
the information and making sure they had all

00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:20.480
the tools they needed. And, like, you know, we

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.910
were working in a... space that core generously

00:31:22.910 --> 00:31:25.569
provided for us to work in but it was still like

00:31:25.569 --> 00:31:27.970
their active workspace as well so it was definitely

00:31:27.970 --> 00:31:30.250
a little different in terms of people having

00:31:30.250 --> 00:31:33.150
to work around each other um it was pretty cold

00:31:33.150 --> 00:31:35.329
for a few of the days so stuff like that like

00:31:35.329 --> 00:31:36.430
there's going to be something like that at every

00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:38.529
event you know that's just a little bit weird

00:31:38.529 --> 00:31:42.950
um but yeah i tried to make sure the setters

00:31:42.950 --> 00:31:45.549
were probably overly comfortable they're used

00:31:45.549 --> 00:31:48.269
to a lot worse and for their part they tried

00:31:48.269 --> 00:31:52.460
to you know keep a positive attitude um and just

00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:55.259
like figure out a good way to get their job done

00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:57.799
despite like video cameras and people measuring

00:31:57.799 --> 00:31:59.980
things and people duplicating things and you

00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.859
know people climbing on the wall people taking

00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.920
graphic shots of the you know the walls and like

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:07.299
all the other things that were happening related

00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:10.460
to this comp um Definitely different for them,

00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:13.480
I think. OK, so then what all went into the thought

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.019
process for how to get good separation between

00:32:16.019 --> 00:32:18.940
the athletes? Yeah, so this one was difficult.

00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.220
So every test event we had a slightly different

00:32:22.220 --> 00:32:26.759
experience with the athletes. And if the athletes

00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.400
are really close in ability, it's easier, actually,

00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:32.740
for the most part. When you have a bigger spread,

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.339
it's a little more difficult because you don't

00:32:34.339 --> 00:32:36.180
want to have a bad show, which means you want

00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:39.130
the like. less strong athletes to get somewhere

00:32:39.130 --> 00:32:41.549
without the strongest athlete just having a field

00:32:41.549 --> 00:32:44.190
day on everything. So like when Yania fell off

00:32:44.190 --> 00:32:46.109
the first qualifier, everybody was like, yes.

00:32:46.809 --> 00:32:48.630
And she did it immediately after, but she still

00:32:48.630 --> 00:32:50.609
made a mistake. And I was like, I'm sure she

00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:52.609
was annoyed, but it was definitely a good, better

00:32:52.609 --> 00:32:54.309
show, you know, and Kamoa did the same on the

00:32:54.309 --> 00:32:56.410
men's. He fell off the last move the first qualifier

00:32:56.410 --> 00:33:00.650
twice. So the balance was like setting some moves

00:33:00.650 --> 00:33:02.569
that are fun to watch without them being too

00:33:02.569 --> 00:33:05.750
easy or too hard. And then setting some test

00:33:05.750 --> 00:33:08.710
moves. enough test moves that you give the athletes

00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:10.849
like basically they're trying to get progressive

00:33:10.849 --> 00:33:13.230
difficulty on the climbs which is a way we used

00:33:13.230 --> 00:33:15.150
to set a lot of comps like each move's kind of

00:33:15.150 --> 00:33:19.069
harder than the last um modern comps aren't always

00:33:19.069 --> 00:33:20.829
like that because of the zone scoring because

00:33:20.829 --> 00:33:22.490
you can just make it hard to the zone and then

00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:23.910
you can make it hard again after the zone but

00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:26.230
it doesn't necessarily have to be progressively

00:33:26.230 --> 00:33:30.730
difficult um and people also wanted a slightly

00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:32.609
different style so we were trying to like reduce

00:33:32.609 --> 00:33:34.829
the number of parkour moves that were done and

00:33:34.829 --> 00:33:38.759
make sure it was asking the athletes to be flexibly

00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.400
strong and, you know, low percentage. A good

00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:44.940
example is like the men's semifinal, the yellow

00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:48.700
boulder. It started off with like a jumpy move.

00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:50.619
So a committee move to start that also got your

00:33:50.619 --> 00:33:53.759
body like totally engaged. And then they had,

00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:55.900
so they had to jump to a volume and catch it.

00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:58.519
And then they had to climb up on the volume with

00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.480
her whole body. And then they totally had to

00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.640
change mode and get into this like very tense.

00:34:03.289 --> 00:34:04.890
techie kind of climbing so it was the one with

00:34:04.890 --> 00:34:06.930
all the yellow strips and they had to like a

00:34:06.930 --> 00:34:10.489
stone and match and like turn and like you know

00:34:10.489 --> 00:34:12.829
everybody was falling off it quite a bit um colin

00:34:12.829 --> 00:34:16.150
fell off the last move i think max was the only

00:34:16.150 --> 00:34:19.489
one that sent it actually but it was like a full

00:34:19.489 --> 00:34:24.530
time limit super tense climbing um good separator

00:34:24.530 --> 00:34:28.269
everybody had a chance but they weren't nobody

00:34:28.269 --> 00:34:30.409
got to a point where they were just done Even

00:34:30.409 --> 00:34:33.110
matching the finish, Max was very engaged. Again,

00:34:33.389 --> 00:34:36.309
Colin fell off the finish. To me, that boulder

00:34:36.309 --> 00:34:41.449
works the best to make a version of the style

00:34:41.449 --> 00:34:46.030
that we're going for. Also, the men's red qualifier

00:34:46.030 --> 00:34:48.389
with the big scoop, the big super shields and

00:34:48.389 --> 00:34:53.050
the slopey scoops was very cool. But I also enjoyed,

00:34:53.190 --> 00:34:55.949
yes, men's qualifier one, the blue one, was kind

00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:57.789
of a race. With Toby and Mejji, it was definitely

00:34:57.789 --> 00:35:00.550
a race. But it was also like... Very fun to watch.

00:35:00.650 --> 00:35:02.630
Yeah, that one was good. The moves were obviously

00:35:02.630 --> 00:35:04.650
hard. I mean, it started on two monos. Like,

00:35:04.670 --> 00:35:07.610
they were stacking in some of them. But obviously

00:35:07.610 --> 00:35:10.250
hard moves, just straight power. Got them engaged

00:35:10.250 --> 00:35:13.449
right away. Committing finish move, doable. But,

00:35:13.510 --> 00:35:15.230
like, Tomoa fell off it twice, and he's one of

00:35:15.230 --> 00:35:16.809
the best in the world at everything. You know,

00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:19.750
and he, it's just like there was challenge there,

00:35:19.889 --> 00:35:24.889
which was fun to watch. Do you feel like the

00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:28.030
setters managed to make it? set in a way so that

00:35:28.030 --> 00:35:31.429
each move was harder than the last um no not

00:35:31.429 --> 00:35:34.750
necessarily you start out with like a you start

00:35:34.750 --> 00:35:37.469
out with a with a theory and a framework and

00:35:37.469 --> 00:35:39.690
then you build what you build and you test it

00:35:39.690 --> 00:35:41.630
and it is where it is that's kind of what i was

00:35:41.630 --> 00:35:42.750
saying earlier but if you give them too many

00:35:42.750 --> 00:35:44.570
instructions and you have to do exactly like

00:35:44.570 --> 00:35:47.449
this it's too rigid and you could have a worse

00:35:47.449 --> 00:35:49.309
product so you have to have like a certain amount

00:35:49.309 --> 00:35:52.369
of testing and judgment that comes into it as

00:35:52.369 --> 00:35:55.500
well so you have like Here are some ideas. Don't

00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.400
make it too easy. Make it progressive. Make sure

00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.340
there's multiple fall points. Try to give them

00:36:00.340 --> 00:36:03.840
something that they can work towards. It can't

00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.340
be too richy. It can't be too, you know, morpho.

00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.460
We made them use, like, we let them mix brands,

00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:14.079
but made them do one color per boulder because

00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:16.059
that was the look that we wanted for the broadcast.

00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:19.400
You know, we're discussing everything. Like,

00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:21.199
okay, what are we going to do next time? Should

00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.179
we do that? Should we do this other thing? I

00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:25.360
don't want to give too much away, but we have

00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.699
some ideas. But I think it did look really nice

00:36:27.699 --> 00:36:30.400
on the screen to have like the two big red lines

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.460
next to each other. Yeah, I think like one of

00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:35.159
the things I had thought, I know there was a

00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.659
lot of complaints about it still ending up kind

00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:42.639
of like a speed bouldering competition. So I

00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:44.760
was thinking like, would it make sense to just

00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:47.869
set the boulders extremely hard so that... making

00:36:47.869 --> 00:36:49.670
it to each hold is considered an achievement

00:36:49.670 --> 00:36:53.050
but then i guess you were talking about like

00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:55.949
the seating and it needing to be like top seed

00:36:55.949 --> 00:36:59.130
competitor would need to have like a good competition

00:36:59.130 --> 00:37:01.829
still against like the lower seated competitor

00:37:01.829 --> 00:37:06.250
so maybe that wouldn't work for that reason You

00:37:06.250 --> 00:37:08.070
need the lower seed to be able to get somewhere

00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:10.150
or it's boring to watch and they just give up.

00:37:10.250 --> 00:37:12.909
And also the top seed doesn't have to like if

00:37:12.909 --> 00:37:14.889
the lower seed can't do anything, the top seed

00:37:14.889 --> 00:37:16.769
doesn't have to keep trying either. Yeah, exactly.

00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.590
You know? Yeah. So I think like a lot of things

00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:23.769
were said on podcasts by other people about this

00:37:23.769 --> 00:37:25.869
event before it happened. And like everybody

00:37:25.869 --> 00:37:27.829
can speculate till the cows come home about how

00:37:27.829 --> 00:37:30.590
you could route set it the best. But again, I

00:37:30.590 --> 00:37:31.989
know there have been some like it's everyone's

00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:33.429
a critic. It's easy to be like, oh, I think the

00:37:33.429 --> 00:37:36.360
women's finished finals are too easy. The person

00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.239
that said they were too easy fell off the semi

00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:43.539
several times. And then regardless of that, I

00:37:43.539 --> 00:37:44.980
know what they mean. They wanted more separation.

00:37:45.619 --> 00:37:47.739
Given their performance and the qualifiers, we

00:37:47.739 --> 00:37:49.420
thought the final round was going to be okay.

00:37:52.179 --> 00:37:55.059
It just suddenly everybody was a little more

00:37:55.059 --> 00:37:57.559
on. It was a little bit cooler. They were a little

00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.280
more psyched. I mean, we did the hardest. version

00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.280
of those championship like this semi small and

00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:06.079
big final we did the hardest version of them

00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.840
that we had planned for with the wall being a

00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:11.039
little steeper and the hold and the harder orientation

00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.139
and blocked and it just didn't didn't matter

00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:17.079
which I mean it was still cool like there was

00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:18.679
some really hard rock climbing that happened

00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.219
and because those climbers are such good athletes

00:38:21.219 --> 00:38:24.239
and made it look really good people are like

00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:26.280
oh it was too easy but those climbs were hard

00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.360
we tested them extensively with some really strong

00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.079
climbers One of the questions that come in, do

00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:32.579
you think the setting for the women's side was

00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:35.739
too easy? I think it's always hard with the women's

00:38:35.739 --> 00:38:40.019
to have it properly calibrated. Part of my complaint

00:38:40.019 --> 00:38:41.460
when I was studying more of these events is we

00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:43.480
need more strong women and you need multiples

00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.300
of us and you need to let us do this part. Not

00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:47.940
that women can't set for men and men can't set

00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.400
for women, but I think what's wrong with letting

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:53.880
some people specialize? Do I think it was too

00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.519
easy? I mean, again, like if you ran, you know.

00:38:57.980 --> 00:39:04.139
six or 20 girls through that climb it might have

00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:06.440
actually been perfect for that field so was it

00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.440
too easy for this format again like compared

00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.380
to how they did on the qualifier you thought

00:39:12.380 --> 00:39:15.159
it'd be appropriate quality one for example is

00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:21.900
quite hard for them um quality two was good but

00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:24.739
a little too fast But yeah, the setting team

00:39:24.739 --> 00:39:26.440
thought like, OK, we'll make the harder tweaks

00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:28.860
and we should be good. And so everybody was like

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:31.559
pretty surprised, like with the women's small

00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.760
final, for example, the yellow boulder. The first

00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:36.219
move is like some crimps and you're supposed

00:39:36.219 --> 00:39:38.159
to hit a sloper and you basically just had to

00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.079
paddle to this like in cut that was blocked.

00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:43.400
And every tester had the same experience on it,

00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:45.760
which was like it was quite hard to stick that

00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:47.639
thing, especially not with both hands. And then,

00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:51.659
man, Annie Sanders just went kung. like she could

00:39:51.659 --> 00:39:53.840
have had a sandwich on it like it seems so much

00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.219
stickier and that was just not like not only

00:39:56.219 --> 00:39:59.980
was it um a bad sloper but it was actually sanded

00:39:59.980 --> 00:40:02.880
a little bit to make it worse so yeah but we

00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.579
were really worried about it being really hot

00:40:04.579 --> 00:40:06.260
at the venue because another thing that'll happen

00:40:06.260 --> 00:40:08.139
is stuff will test really well and then the venue

00:40:08.139 --> 00:40:10.320
is way too hot and then nobody sticks to anything

00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.440
and it looks terrible so we were worried about

00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.690
the venue being too hot We did plan for it to

00:40:14.690 --> 00:40:17.829
be hotter than where we were. And also the venue,

00:40:17.929 --> 00:40:19.530
we actually, they had the doors open all day.

00:40:19.590 --> 00:40:21.750
So it was quite cool in there. And they had the

00:40:21.750 --> 00:40:23.789
AC on to try to make it cooler for the athletes.

00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:27.630
And I think that the stage lighting wasn't as

00:40:27.630 --> 00:40:29.929
hot as like from being on stage. It definitely

00:40:29.929 --> 00:40:32.969
wasn't as hot as I remember previous stage lighting

00:40:32.969 --> 00:40:35.429
I've been in front of being. So I think a lot

00:40:35.429 --> 00:40:37.710
of elements kind of came together to make it

00:40:37.710 --> 00:40:40.860
like pretty good conditions up there. and the

00:40:40.860 --> 00:40:42.659
athletes were like with the exception of for

00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:45.619
some reason the men's quality the red one where

00:40:45.619 --> 00:40:48.340
they were just having trouble to start um everything

00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:50.099
else they were doing a pretty job of sticking

00:40:50.099 --> 00:40:52.320
to like a little better than expected and the

00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.360
women's semi or yeah women's semi -final as well

00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.719
the red one the first move was like some pockets

00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:00.360
and you hit a sloper volume and then you had

00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:02.840
to like shift out left and they were like really

00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:04.780
comfortable in that slopey volume and that was

00:41:04.780 --> 00:41:06.199
another one that was like people were really

00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:09.039
struggling to stick to it in the test facility

00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:12.739
so And it was cold in the test facility. Yeah.

00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:15.539
Like, so I don't know. We're not entirely sure

00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:21.820
what, why. There's theories. But, you know, it's

00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:24.599
just the athletes, too, like, were psyched. And

00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.039
they were in front of a big crowd. And there's

00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:29.219
a lot of money on the line. So, you know, you

00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:31.559
can account for that. But it's very common. I've

00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.820
seen a lot of over, people are saying, oh, the

00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:35.480
setting was undercooked for the women. And that's,

00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:37.420
I would completely argue with that. Undercooked

00:41:37.420 --> 00:41:39.739
suggests not enough effort was put in. it was

00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:43.380
overcooked too much effort was put in maybe maybe

00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.980
we needed to go a little easier um but also they

00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:48.780
were good boulders and i think it was just like

00:41:48.780 --> 00:41:51.380
a matter of luck to some degree and you could

00:41:51.380 --> 00:41:54.400
get that the other way too and we want them to

00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:56.159
be hard but if they're just way too hard it's

00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.440
no fun to watch either so i'm glad the women

00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:01.340
at least got to climb yeah you also mentioned

00:42:01.340 --> 00:42:04.219
like sanding the holds down still which i think

00:42:04.219 --> 00:42:07.480
i found interesting because I feel like there

00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.099
could be a case where people are like, oh, you

00:42:10.099 --> 00:42:12.699
sanded down the left side a little more than

00:42:12.699 --> 00:42:14.420
the right side. And so that's why I couldn't

00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:17.500
do it. So the thing that we did, because we were

00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:21.260
very aware of that, is we had Ian Powell, my

00:42:21.260 --> 00:42:23.599
partner, who's the, he's one of the, he's like,

00:42:23.619 --> 00:42:25.719
he's the best whole japer in the world. He can

00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:28.440
make anything. Like, he can make anything anybody

00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:31.739
makes. He can make anything he makes. He is a

00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:34.989
really... a big nerd about texture. And so the

00:42:34.989 --> 00:42:39.250
way that fiberglass and vacuum thermoform macros

00:42:39.250 --> 00:42:41.170
are made is that they're made and then they're

00:42:41.170 --> 00:42:43.289
textured. So it's called post -texturing, which

00:42:43.289 --> 00:42:45.289
means the texture is put on after. So every single

00:42:45.289 --> 00:42:46.650
one is going to be a little bit unique, right?

00:42:47.809 --> 00:42:51.389
So what he did was he used his, you know, he

00:42:51.389 --> 00:42:56.090
felt them and he did a very specific like swipe

00:42:56.090 --> 00:42:58.889
with the sandpaper with a certain pressure and

00:42:58.889 --> 00:43:02.090
felt. And so he did like two swipes on that hold

00:43:02.090 --> 00:43:05.170
and he wrote two swipes inside, you know, on

00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:08.170
the foam. And we took a picture and he made sure

00:43:08.170 --> 00:43:12.750
they felt the same. So he was like very, and

00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:14.329
then we brushed them and we chopped them. And

00:43:14.329 --> 00:43:16.409
we really tried hard to make sure that the climber

00:43:16.409 --> 00:43:18.250
experience was going to be the same on both of

00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:20.730
the holds. Because that was a huge concern and

00:43:20.730 --> 00:43:21.829
that was part of the reason we didn't want to

00:43:21.829 --> 00:43:24.630
modify them. But we felt strongly that that hold

00:43:24.630 --> 00:43:29.679
could really use like a slight change. We made

00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:32.019
it. And it's not uncommon at all for setters

00:43:32.019 --> 00:43:34.039
to stand holds at comps. It's just usually one

00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:36.840
copy. So it doesn't matter. Yeah. And you also

00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.199
mentioned, I guess, like about the route setting

00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.179
for the women that you think it could be nice

00:43:43.179 --> 00:43:45.639
to have some routes that are specialized in setting

00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:51.199
for women's versus men's comps. I guess, one,

00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:56.380
why would that be helpful? And why is it like

00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:59.900
so different setting for? men's versus women's

00:43:59.900 --> 00:44:02.840
and I guess like why does it seem so much harder

00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.320
to calibrate for the women's field? I think that

00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:09.519
female climbers are less understood by the majority

00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:12.380
of people setting these events. Please excuse

00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:14.780
this brief intermission, but if you're interested

00:44:14.780 --> 00:44:17.019
in ad -free episodes and would like to unlock

00:44:17.019 --> 00:44:19.800
over four hours of deleted scenes, including

00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.340
one where Jackie talks about feedback from Colin

00:44:22.340 --> 00:44:25.139
Duffy and what she would improve about the changeover

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process, do consider helping support this podcast

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00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.000
liking, commenting, and sharing helps a great

00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.880
deal as well. Back to the show. And if there's

00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.460
a woman on the crew, it's usually one woman,

00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:59.599
and so that's one voice in five. I think if you're

00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.280
me, you just say what you think and you're perceived

00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.320
as too loud about it or something. And other

00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:09.039
women I know, some people that works for, I know

00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.219
women on the World Cup circuit who are also loud

00:45:11.219 --> 00:45:13.179
about it. I was just a little early, I think.

00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.280
But also some women are quieter about it. And

00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.380
then some women like it's nice to work for the

00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:21.320
crew. Like that's part of the reason we did Woman

00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:22.699
Up. We just wanted women to have the experience

00:45:22.699 --> 00:45:24.940
of working with other women because. A lot of

00:45:24.940 --> 00:45:26.420
times they realize they know a lot more than

00:45:26.420 --> 00:45:27.780
they think they know because they aren't really

00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:30.559
given a chance to like have their voice and also

00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:33.159
see what happens with what they thought. So,

00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:37.559
you know, and that's really important to calibrate

00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:39.940
how good your judgment is, is to see what happens

00:45:39.940 --> 00:45:43.820
when you get to try, you know, what you think

00:45:43.820 --> 00:45:46.460
should happen and see like, oh, so like I am

00:45:46.460 --> 00:45:48.940
the final word on a boulder problem where we

00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:50.679
do what I wanted to do. And then I watch the

00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:52.539
athletes on it. I can learn a ton from that.

00:45:53.089 --> 00:45:55.769
And ideally you do that in your gym with climbers

00:45:55.769 --> 00:45:57.869
every week. So you have a much better idea of

00:45:57.869 --> 00:45:59.610
like how different people are going to perform

00:45:59.610 --> 00:46:02.130
on the climb and you know, how it really is going

00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:03.630
to work for different body types. And then you

00:46:03.630 --> 00:46:05.590
understand more how to predict what could happen.

00:46:05.630 --> 00:46:08.909
And I think like with a comp, especially this

00:46:08.909 --> 00:46:11.230
one, they were just under so much pressure and

00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:15.489
there was so much going on that like they put

00:46:15.489 --> 00:46:17.389
a lot of time into the women's climbs as well.

00:46:17.570 --> 00:46:23.179
But I think having almost two teams would be

00:46:23.179 --> 00:46:25.420
cool. There's a team really focused on the women's

00:46:25.420 --> 00:46:27.739
event and team really focused on the men's because

00:46:27.739 --> 00:46:30.199
like PCL is here to promote like the women's

00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.119
event was the last event of the night. Like they're

00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:33.719
not trying to put the women in the background.

00:46:34.099 --> 00:46:36.780
And I want to make sure that we're giving the

00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:41.900
team enough resources to really, you know, address

00:46:41.900 --> 00:46:45.199
both fields. But I think that they tried to and

00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:46.820
I think they're experienced in doing so. And

00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:48.900
like it could have gone completely differently

00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:52.670
with just. the smallest of like changes in the

00:46:52.670 --> 00:46:57.010
athletes or the heat or people's personal feelings

00:46:57.010 --> 00:46:59.769
or yanya hitting a hole differently orian hitting

00:46:59.769 --> 00:47:03.070
it differently or you know there's just like

00:47:03.070 --> 00:47:08.289
you can't really second guess and people love

00:47:08.289 --> 00:47:10.949
to and it's fine but like there isn't a person

00:47:10.949 --> 00:47:13.989
in the world who's like if i had done that yeah

00:47:13.989 --> 00:47:15.809
they can say now i would do it differently but

00:47:15.809 --> 00:47:18.269
like there's not a person in the world that can

00:47:18.269 --> 00:47:20.030
tell you exactly how it's going to go. Like I've

00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:21.769
had, I've had boulders I've set where I'm like,

00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:24.070
I know the field and I'm pretty sure it's going

00:47:24.070 --> 00:47:26.530
to go like this and not like it. And it basically

00:47:26.530 --> 00:47:28.510
does, but you, you also need to be careful as

00:47:28.510 --> 00:47:30.469
a setter. Cause you know, I would never want

00:47:30.469 --> 00:47:32.750
to set, well, I'm going to set it like this.

00:47:32.769 --> 00:47:34.929
So only this person can win. So you have to really

00:47:34.929 --> 00:47:37.489
be like, okay, I need to set it in a way where

00:47:37.489 --> 00:47:40.070
the strongest, that strongest athlete of the

00:47:40.070 --> 00:47:43.690
day is going to win. So if it's Alex Puccio today

00:47:43.690 --> 00:47:47.360
and she climbs well, she will win. But if Nina

00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:48.940
Williams is having a good day and Alex is having

00:47:48.940 --> 00:47:51.019
a bad day, Nina could beat her. You know, and

00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:55.820
this is years ago. But, you know, or some other

00:47:55.820 --> 00:47:58.420
kid like that shows up to this women up comp

00:47:58.420 --> 00:48:03.000
is really on. They're going to, you know, come

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:04.719
out here and give Brooke Rabatou a run for her

00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.300
money. And that'll happen, which is cool. So

00:48:07.300 --> 00:48:10.059
you want to make sure you're not like, especially

00:48:10.059 --> 00:48:14.420
with climbing like Ianya, you know, you could

00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:17.519
probably set moves. that only Yanya could do,

00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.800
but then like, why is anybody bothered to be

00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:24.679
there? You know? So it's, it's like extra hard

00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:26.739
because you want to try to set something that

00:48:26.739 --> 00:48:29.260
gives the athletes a chance to compete, which

00:48:29.260 --> 00:48:32.760
actually we had because, you know, Orien beat

00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:34.280
her and that wasn't something that, that was

00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:35.800
something that she had the opportunity to do

00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:38.340
if she climbed really well and she did, you know,

00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.699
and that's awesome. I think that the setters

00:48:40.699 --> 00:48:42.500
weren't predicting her to throw the heel and

00:48:42.500 --> 00:48:44.380
be able to use it as effectively as she did.

00:48:44.909 --> 00:48:46.530
But definitely, I think, like, you asked about

00:48:46.530 --> 00:48:48.329
what's the benefit of having all women's teams.

00:48:50.150 --> 00:48:53.250
Like, all women's teams, like, you're going to

00:48:53.250 --> 00:48:56.989
expect the heel. There's probably men that expect

00:48:56.989 --> 00:48:58.690
it, but, like, women especially are like, how

00:48:58.690 --> 00:49:00.590
can I get weight off of my arms? Like, I'm going

00:49:00.590 --> 00:49:02.969
to heel hook by my ear and pull it down to my,

00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:06.730
like, where my ankle is, you know. I once saw

00:49:06.730 --> 00:49:08.969
Megan Mascarenas when she was winning World Cups.

00:49:09.369 --> 00:49:11.329
She was at one of our comps at the spot and she

00:49:11.329 --> 00:49:13.650
had two slopers on like an overhang, like here

00:49:13.650 --> 00:49:17.050
and here, like a bulgy overhang. She put a heel,

00:49:17.210 --> 00:49:19.550
she like shifted her hand up, put her heel next

00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:21.650
to that one, shifted her other hand up, put her

00:49:21.650 --> 00:49:23.690
other heel on. So she was literally just like

00:49:23.690 --> 00:49:26.369
both heels and both hands. And then she pulled

00:49:26.369 --> 00:49:30.010
up, engaged her heels and like, it was crazy.

00:49:32.389 --> 00:49:34.250
Like for women, if you give them a good foot,

00:49:34.389 --> 00:49:35.849
I mean, when I was younger, I felt like this

00:49:35.849 --> 00:49:37.590
too. If you give them a good foot, they can step

00:49:37.590 --> 00:49:40.550
on it, pull it in and push it down and then go

00:49:40.550 --> 00:49:42.309
anywhere off of it. And like part of the other

00:49:42.309 --> 00:49:44.230
thing I think that happened with women's yellow,

00:49:44.429 --> 00:49:48.389
women's small final is that the foot was a little

00:49:48.389 --> 00:49:49.949
too good and they were too comfortable on it.

00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:52.889
We needed to be a little more insecure. So we

00:49:52.889 --> 00:49:55.929
gave them a good foot because the hand had been

00:49:55.929 --> 00:50:00.809
so bad. because the hand was magically slumped

00:50:00.809 --> 00:50:03.369
somehow better in the venue, the foot could have

00:50:03.369 --> 00:50:05.150
been a little worse. You know, that's like the

00:50:05.150 --> 00:50:06.869
kind of thing you'd say in retrospect. But before

00:50:06.869 --> 00:50:08.929
the event, like they moved that foot like eight

00:50:08.929 --> 00:50:12.650
times. Like it wasn't, you know, there was some

00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:18.050
on the floor changes that happened. Very, like

00:50:18.050 --> 00:50:20.110
we had pre -planned some things we could change

00:50:20.110 --> 00:50:21.849
because we had to, because everything had to

00:50:21.849 --> 00:50:24.210
be duplicated and marked and then went with the

00:50:24.210 --> 00:50:27.429
harder version of it. And that happened. It's

00:50:27.429 --> 00:50:31.019
just always. using, again, your best judgment.

00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:32.739
And then like, here's another factor. Like the

00:50:32.739 --> 00:50:35.920
athletes did a really intense seating round event

00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.300
like the day before. So that comp was, looked

00:50:39.300 --> 00:50:41.400
really hard and it was cool. And the question

00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.239
is, are they going to be tired from that? Or

00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.400
like specifically tired? Like what if that seating

00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.000
round had like two boulders or even one that

00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:52.199
had a crazy left shoulder move and it was hard

00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.840
at the top. So they did it like eight times and

00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:55.519
now like the entire women's field, their left

00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:58.869
shoulder is just totally flagged, you know? and

00:50:58.869 --> 00:51:00.730
we've set a left -shouldery thing, and now they

00:51:00.730 --> 00:51:02.630
can't do it because they're just so tired from

00:51:02.630 --> 00:51:05.309
the day before. It's possible. Stuff like that

00:51:05.309 --> 00:51:07.289
can definitely happen. So there's all these factors

00:51:07.289 --> 00:51:10.690
that you have to try to consider, predict, and

00:51:10.690 --> 00:51:14.110
plan for, and then it's still like... I mean,

00:51:14.130 --> 00:51:15.789
I don't know. I've been doing this for 28 years,

00:51:15.869 --> 00:51:19.409
and some of it's just always luck. Are there

00:51:19.409 --> 00:51:21.809
any other boulders from the comp that stood out

00:51:21.809 --> 00:51:24.369
to you or you felt like you learned a lot from?

00:51:24.730 --> 00:51:26.969
I think that the format, like on the surface,

00:51:27.070 --> 00:51:28.269
you're like, oh, yeah, that'd be easy. And then

00:51:28.269 --> 00:51:29.510
when you start thinking about it, you can, like

00:51:29.510 --> 00:51:31.289
I said, get your brain pretty twisted up. And

00:51:31.289 --> 00:51:32.829
then when you start setting it, you start to

00:51:32.829 --> 00:51:35.690
understand more about it. So I think every event

00:51:35.690 --> 00:51:38.030
we do of this, we're going to learn from and

00:51:38.030 --> 00:51:41.989
be able to like really dial in how to be setting

00:51:41.989 --> 00:51:44.110
for this event and planning for it and what we

00:51:44.110 --> 00:51:46.510
should be doing. Like like some people, somebody's

00:51:46.510 --> 00:51:48.250
like, oh, the walls are too small. And like the

00:51:48.250 --> 00:51:50.329
walls were literally the largest walls we could

00:51:50.329 --> 00:51:54.059
legally have that fit in the venue. Like we could

00:51:54.059 --> 00:51:56.219
not have made the walls any bigger. And they

00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.219
adjusted so we could change the angle. Didn't

00:51:58.219 --> 00:52:00.460
have any huge volumes on them, but with the changeover

00:52:00.460 --> 00:52:03.619
on the field, I don't really have much experience

00:52:03.619 --> 00:52:05.880
with settings. So I guess what's the difficulty

00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:08.400
with like having a huge volume and bringing it

00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.639
around? Just like the heaviness or is there more

00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:12.920
to it? It's just heavy. It's unwieldy. We're

00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.800
on like rented ladders. The ladders were insecure.

00:52:16.019 --> 00:52:17.900
There's people walking around the feet of them

00:52:17.900 --> 00:52:20.380
and we wanted to have everybody be as... you

00:52:20.380 --> 00:52:22.659
know, safe and appropriate work environment as

00:52:22.659 --> 00:52:24.380
possible on stage. So like everybody has safety

00:52:24.380 --> 00:52:28.059
glasses, everybody had, you know, the right equipment

00:52:28.059 --> 00:52:30.539
to the job they were doing. And certainly if

00:52:30.539 --> 00:52:32.440
we were going to do something like big like that,

00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:34.199
we would need like a different kind of ladder

00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:36.440
and we would need like multiple people on it

00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:38.460
and no one else doing anything else. So you have

00:52:38.460 --> 00:52:40.139
to slow down a little bit to be able to do that

00:52:40.139 --> 00:52:44.099
in that area. So it's not undoable at all. It's

00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:46.460
just another factor. Okay. We were trying to

00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:48.619
do changeover in 10 minutes or less. How long

00:52:48.619 --> 00:52:50.860
did it end up taking? I didn't time him for this,

00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:53.179
but it was pretty close. But we did a lot of

00:52:53.179 --> 00:52:54.880
rehearsals because the changeover team, besides

00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:57.760
the setting team, had a couple of like key setters

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:01.579
come in, one from Italy and one from Singapore.

00:53:02.539 --> 00:53:04.519
And then we had some people from London Climbing

00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:06.239
Center and then the rest of the crew were from

00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.460
City Bouldering partnered with PCL to provide

00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:12.559
changeover crew. But I think a lot of them aren't

00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.059
like day -to -day route setters. And they were

00:53:15.059 --> 00:53:17.139
super like enthusiastic folks. They were great.

00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:19.309
I think they do some wall maintenance work and

00:53:19.309 --> 00:53:21.329
stuff. So they weren't unfamiliar with the situation,

00:53:21.469 --> 00:53:24.550
but it definitely like, it was a big ask for

00:53:24.550 --> 00:53:27.349
everybody to come in and like, they came up here

00:53:27.349 --> 00:53:31.369
for a day and we spent a day doing like changeovers

00:53:31.369 --> 00:53:35.090
because we had 11 boulder problems. So most walls

00:53:35.090 --> 00:53:38.349
had three rotations and one wall had four and,

00:53:38.449 --> 00:53:41.949
or two walls had four. And it was just like.

00:53:42.629 --> 00:53:44.250
strip everything, put everything, you know, take

00:53:44.250 --> 00:53:45.469
everything down, put everything up, take everything

00:53:45.469 --> 00:53:47.070
down, put everything down. People had to know

00:53:47.070 --> 00:53:48.769
where the holds went on the wall. They had to

00:53:48.769 --> 00:53:50.969
know which holds were in the set so we didn't

00:53:50.969 --> 00:53:53.630
lose things. We had to have somebody checking

00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:56.909
to make sure all the attachment points were in

00:53:56.909 --> 00:53:59.170
and no holds had been missed on each climb every

00:53:59.170 --> 00:54:01.989
time. We were showing them how to put the screws

00:54:01.989 --> 00:54:05.309
in the same hole. We actually used smaller screws

00:54:05.309 --> 00:54:07.969
in testing to make sure that we didn't wear the

00:54:07.969 --> 00:54:09.929
wall up too much because we were putting holes

00:54:09.929 --> 00:54:12.050
exactly in the same place over and over again.

00:54:12.449 --> 00:54:16.309
True. I didn't think about that. We probably

00:54:16.309 --> 00:54:20.230
put these things on and off the wall three or

00:54:20.230 --> 00:54:22.230
four or five times the first day, and then we

00:54:22.230 --> 00:54:24.909
did rehearsals twice on the day of the event,

00:54:24.929 --> 00:54:26.670
too, in the morning and the second session in

00:54:26.670 --> 00:54:30.840
the afternoon. We used bigger screws on the day

00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:33.719
of the event or for the event to make sure that

00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.639
the attachments were secure. And we added a few

00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:38.360
points on a few holds as well just to make sure

00:54:38.360 --> 00:54:40.880
there was no wiggle for the athletes. How many

00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.940
times can you screw the same thing into the same

00:54:42.940 --> 00:54:46.280
hole before it gets... Yeah, it depends. If you

00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:50.019
get perfectly in the right hole, if it goes in

00:54:50.019 --> 00:54:54.360
the exactly right way, it's really strong. And

00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:55.719
what's pretty good, I mean, it was just like

00:54:55.719 --> 00:54:57.219
inch thick plywood. You could put stuff in and

00:54:57.219 --> 00:54:59.800
out of it a bit, but... definitely like if you

00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:01.679
overdo it you could shred a hole also and then

00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:03.039
you have a shredded hole and you have to do something

00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:06.059
about that so um and then we also had a special

00:55:06.059 --> 00:55:09.260
camera called blocky that we were moving around

00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:11.059
so like i was out on the stage for changeover

00:55:11.059 --> 00:55:15.019
moving blocky and that was me and then the flow

00:55:15.019 --> 00:55:18.900
from red bull was behind the wall and then we

00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:20.619
would pass like the attachments back and forth

00:55:20.619 --> 00:55:22.840
and i would like plug blocky into its new position

00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.420
so we had like pre -placed blocky and mark blocky

00:55:25.420 --> 00:55:27.139
on the wall mark blocky on the back of the wall

00:55:27.139 --> 00:55:29.099
and then flow was climbing around back there

00:55:29.099 --> 00:55:31.340
and i was you know juggling on the front end

00:55:31.340 --> 00:55:33.360
trying not to get in the way that people stripping

00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:36.019
and setting too much and um but there's some

00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:37.980
really cool shots in the live feed from blocky

00:55:37.980 --> 00:55:40.440
that you'll see like really up close on the climbers

00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.019
and then what was the I guess if there was any

00:55:45.019 --> 00:55:48.019
reasoning or thought behind not having like a

00:55:48.019 --> 00:55:51.199
slab boulder. So we had like a five degree overhanging

00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:53.599
wall, which we called the American slab. And

00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:55.880
that was qualifier three, which didn't get used

00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:58.059
in the end because we separated everybody in

00:55:58.059 --> 00:56:02.300
the first two qualifiers. Yeah, it was actually

00:56:02.300 --> 00:56:03.900
like we had planned to have a slab. And then,

00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:05.800
you know, Dannon famously said to Yannick that

00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.780
there would be no slab. Or Yannick said that

00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:11.539
Dannon said there would be no slab. Which wasn't

00:56:11.539 --> 00:56:14.059
a reason not to do it. But we did want Yannick

00:56:14.059 --> 00:56:18.820
to be happy. No, we talked about it. And the

00:56:18.820 --> 00:56:20.760
setting team wanted to try it without a slab.

00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:24.559
And so we said, all right. That said, we had

00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.019
had a slab in the previous iteration test events.

00:56:27.320 --> 00:56:29.480
And it was usually qualifier three. And it was

00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:31.280
a shared qualifier. So men and women on the same

00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:35.099
climb. And it was very cool. There are some women

00:56:35.099 --> 00:56:36.840
that feel like it's not really cool to use a

00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:38.619
slab for the shared climb because like, of course,

00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:41.119
women can climb slab. But it is cool because

00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:44.179
you see you get these athletes like performing

00:56:44.179 --> 00:56:46.659
differently on the same climb. And like slabs

00:56:46.659 --> 00:56:48.679
cool because you have to hurry up, but not hurry

00:56:48.679 --> 00:56:50.320
up too much. You'll fall off because that's how

00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.739
slab climbing is. And so it actually is great

00:56:52.739 --> 00:56:54.239
for this type of event. We've been discussing

00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:57.079
that a lot as well for next iteration. Were you

00:56:57.079 --> 00:56:59.280
bummed that you guys said the extra boulders

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:01.480
that never got touched? Oh, yeah, for sure. One

00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:03.380
of those was another Matt Birch boulder. And

00:57:03.380 --> 00:57:05.320
I think Matt's like a really interesting setter.

00:57:05.340 --> 00:57:06.739
So I would have liked to see the athletes on

00:57:06.739 --> 00:57:08.980
it. The yellow qualifier three. That was the

00:57:08.980 --> 00:57:12.519
only one that didn't get touched. But yeah, and

00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:14.079
actually the audience expressed that they were

00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:15.820
bummed, too. It was like teasing them to show

00:57:15.820 --> 00:57:17.639
them a boulder that no one climbed. And I was

00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:19.239
bummed, too, because like one of the sponsors,

00:57:19.500 --> 00:57:21.719
Absolute, their holds arrived super late. So

00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:23.800
we put them on that boulder at the beginning

00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:26.599
and end because everything was like done, basically.

00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:30.329
But Absolute produced a lot of our. macros for

00:57:30.329 --> 00:57:31.949
a bunch of the brands so we wanted to make sure

00:57:31.949 --> 00:57:34.369
we included them so we got them on the wall just

00:57:34.369 --> 00:57:36.590
a little late and they definitely stand out the

00:57:36.590 --> 00:57:39.329
asteroids are like these cool like asteroid looking

00:57:39.329 --> 00:57:41.550
things um and i think people wanted to climb

00:57:41.550 --> 00:57:43.210
on them and see people climb on them and that

00:57:43.210 --> 00:57:46.630
didn't didn't happen um and also i think that

00:57:46.630 --> 00:57:48.309
boulder was going to be really fun to watch so

00:57:48.309 --> 00:57:51.349
that was a shame for us and for the athletes

00:57:51.349 --> 00:57:54.909
and for the the field i think the uh the spectators

00:57:54.909 --> 00:57:59.670
but that's you know another thing like Basically,

00:57:59.789 --> 00:58:01.670
all the feedback people have, we're interested

00:58:01.670 --> 00:58:03.530
in it and we're definitely discussing because

00:58:03.530 --> 00:58:06.269
on the whole, we're really happy with how everything

00:58:06.269 --> 00:58:09.070
went. It was a super awesome event. It was visually

00:58:09.070 --> 00:58:12.630
just so different to me. Being in the venue with

00:58:12.630 --> 00:58:16.090
all the people and the professional production

00:58:16.090 --> 00:58:17.809
that Red Bull did was just really cool to be

00:58:17.809 --> 00:58:20.869
a part of. But there's always room for improvement

00:58:20.869 --> 00:58:23.170
and certainly there's a lot of areas we can identify

00:58:23.170 --> 00:58:26.269
that we want to tweak to just see what else we

00:58:26.269 --> 00:58:29.119
can do also. Is there anything you wish the athletes

00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:31.400
did differently on the boulders? Like you didn't

00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.599
expect them to climb the way they did? I think

00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:36.699
qualifiers went pretty well besides like it would

00:58:36.699 --> 00:58:39.760
have been nice to. Yeah. OK, so here's something.

00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:42.159
When I rewatched it, I noticed a lot of times

00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:44.000
the first athlete that was like kind of ahead,

00:58:44.239 --> 00:58:46.139
they like would make a mistake and fall off and

00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:49.340
then they wouldn't get back on. And like maybe

00:58:49.340 --> 00:58:51.199
they felt like they had no chance, but like I

00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:53.519
think part of this event for athletes is going

00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:55.780
to be figuring out like. it might be worth it

00:58:55.780 --> 00:58:58.099
to get back on because A, you might have a chance.

00:58:58.260 --> 00:59:00.840
And B, you getting on might stress the other

00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.880
person out and create another chance for you

00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:06.900
because they actually might fall off. So I think

00:59:06.900 --> 00:59:10.699
the athletes learning how to compete best in

00:59:10.699 --> 00:59:13.860
this format could be super interesting. And there's

00:59:13.860 --> 00:59:16.659
a lot of room for that. And it may not be everybody's

00:59:16.659 --> 00:59:18.780
cup of tea. And other people may really enjoy,

00:59:18.900 --> 00:59:20.719
like one of the things I really enjoyed was the

00:59:20.719 --> 00:59:22.659
athletes also talking even on the mat during

00:59:22.659 --> 00:59:24.400
the boulder, like what they were going to do.

00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.260
I thought that kind of camaraderie was like really

00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:31.360
fun to see. Because, you know, if you're sessioning

00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:33.340
with your friends, you watch your friends sometimes

00:59:33.340 --> 00:59:35.340
beat you on a climb or you beat them on a climb,

00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:37.420
but it's really fun still. It's fun for you to

00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:38.960
talk about what to do together. It's fun to watch

00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:40.880
them try. It's fun to think, oh, maybe I could

00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:43.710
do it. It's fun to do it yourself. getting to

00:59:43.710 --> 00:59:45.730
see that with the athletes like in the warm -up

00:59:45.730 --> 00:59:47.809
zone and then later on the stage I think it was

00:59:47.809 --> 00:59:50.190
a really neat part of PCL yeah I mean I guess

00:59:50.190 --> 00:59:53.230
partially it could be that they needed to rest

00:59:53.230 --> 00:59:56.650
after falling off but yeah I don't know like

00:59:56.650 --> 00:59:59.429
how much pressure plays into the into the whole

00:59:59.429 --> 01:00:02.199
thing as someone who wasn't up there. No, for

01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:04.360
sure. And another pro climber is telling me is

01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:06.320
she thought that part of the thing is that they

01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:08.079
do need to rest. And if we made the climbs much

01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:10.360
harder, we had to give them more time because

01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.280
they need to rest more to have a chance. Because

01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:13.739
like, why would they jump back on if they're

01:00:13.739 --> 01:00:15.599
going to just flag themselves in the first few

01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:17.800
moves and then not be able to even do the top

01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:20.619
if they get there, which is true. So then does

01:00:20.619 --> 01:00:24.679
the format support people watching them for six

01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:28.059
or eight minutes instead of five? And them resting

01:00:28.059 --> 01:00:31.000
on the stage, even if they're both resting. Do

01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:33.300
people want to watch that? So there's a lot of

01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:34.840
questions. Again, it's really easy to criticize

01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:36.619
and go, oh, she's speed bouldering. But like

01:00:36.619 --> 01:00:38.980
those climbs were hard and those athletes are

01:00:38.980 --> 01:00:42.000
amazing. And like the fact that they were motivated

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.820
to race each other is, you know, it's always

01:00:46.820 --> 01:00:49.159
going to be a little bit of a race if it's even

01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:51.539
if it's every single move is impossible. Like

01:00:51.539 --> 01:00:53.159
they're going to still be trying to beat each

01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:56.599
other to the highest. move first you know um

01:00:56.599 --> 01:01:00.059
i think that's okay like i don't it's not the

01:01:00.059 --> 01:01:01.440
same speed climbing where it's the same route

01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:04.739
over and over again it's like being able to adapt

01:01:04.739 --> 01:01:07.099
to different movements and holds you've never

01:01:07.099 --> 01:01:09.440
seen before some of which were on these climbs

01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.019
and a short period of time is like shows a lot

01:01:12.019 --> 01:01:14.079
of athletic skill and adaptability and i think

01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.260
that's also really interesting to to test and

01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:19.039
see happening i don't know how you would fix

01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:20.920
that maybe you would need to like brief the athletes

01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.719
beforehand that it's It sucks when they rest.

01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.420
No, I mean, the thing is, like you said, like,

01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:28.739
if it's hard, like, people want too many things.

01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:30.980
Like, we want really good, really hard, extremely

01:01:30.980 --> 01:01:33.300
difficult bouldering. We also want them to be

01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:35.820
able to solve these climbs in four minutes. We

01:01:35.820 --> 01:01:37.480
also want to see tops. We also don't want it

01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.300
to be easy. So it's like, okay, if it's too hard,

01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:42.199
there's just going to be a high point, which

01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.179
is okay. Like, the men's final almost ended with

01:01:44.179 --> 01:01:46.139
a high point, and that was okay. Or actually,

01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:48.079
technically it did, because Max climbed the end

01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:49.460
of it wrong, but it didn't matter because he'd

01:01:49.460 --> 01:01:54.750
already won. But what do people actually want

01:01:54.750 --> 01:01:58.590
to see? Yes, it's fun to watch people battle

01:01:58.590 --> 01:02:00.789
it out on something really hard, but people still

01:02:00.789 --> 01:02:02.510
like to see a top. They like to see somebody

01:02:02.510 --> 01:02:05.170
swinging from something. They like to see Toby

01:02:05.170 --> 01:02:08.349
and Meji both out sideways, flat out catching

01:02:08.349 --> 01:02:11.110
something with their second hand. It's very cool.

01:02:12.070 --> 01:02:16.389
I love what Max did, and I want to take away

01:02:16.389 --> 01:02:19.679
from that, but I also wish Colin had stuck. men's

01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:21.659
big final like twist move because he basically

01:02:21.659 --> 01:02:23.219
did stick it but then when he was swinging back

01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:25.739
instead of pushing more he went to reach over

01:02:25.739 --> 01:02:27.460
and realized that was a bad idea and it was too

01:02:27.460 --> 01:02:29.900
late you know and uh but that move was so cool

01:02:29.900 --> 01:02:31.900
i mean his level of commitment like we have a

01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:34.119
picture of him where he's like like feeder up

01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:37.619
here kind of sideways and i just um i enjoy like

01:02:37.619 --> 01:02:41.400
that level of athleticism because certainly when

01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:44.519
i was especially when i was setting more for

01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:47.659
for comps but um when i was climbing the best

01:02:47.659 --> 01:02:49.969
i ever climbed People just weren't doing a whole

01:02:49.969 --> 01:02:51.329
lot of that. You know, you'd occasionally do

01:02:51.329 --> 01:02:54.349
a big move outside, but like it was not like

01:02:54.349 --> 01:02:57.150
it is now. Like Colin's expected to land on his

01:02:57.150 --> 01:02:59.789
back and he's fine with it, you know, and that

01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:02.929
like we all grew up like you're not trying to

01:03:02.929 --> 01:03:06.269
land on your back, you know, or anything else,

01:03:06.269 --> 01:03:09.239
if you can help it. But, you know, the generation

01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:11.079
before us, like they're getting both of their

01:03:11.079 --> 01:03:12.920
hips and their knees and their ankles replaced

01:03:12.920 --> 01:03:15.119
because they or the ankles probably aren't replaced,

01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.260
but worked on because they fell on a piece of

01:03:18.260 --> 01:03:22.239
carpet on the ground for years. Yeah. So we're

01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:23.920
the crash pad generation, but it's still a little

01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:25.940
different than the gym generation in terms of

01:03:25.940 --> 01:03:29.880
like the mentality. So let's get into some of

01:03:29.880 --> 01:03:32.400
the grab bag audience questions that came through.

01:03:32.780 --> 01:03:36.039
Oh, sure. This is from Madeline Huang. How did

01:03:36.039 --> 01:03:37.880
you know the climb was the right difficulty?

01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:41.260
It seems harder to gauge than a World Cup. Yeah,

01:03:41.280 --> 01:03:42.679
definitely. I think it's harder to gauge than

01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:44.960
a World Cup because you have so many climbers

01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.820
in the World Cup you can get away with a little

01:03:46.820 --> 01:03:48.980
bit more because you're going to get such a rate.

01:03:49.059 --> 01:03:52.300
You should get a bigger field of performance

01:03:52.300 --> 01:03:57.960
from a bigger field of climbers. Yeah, so again,

01:03:58.059 --> 01:04:00.800
it's educated guessing. And that sounds worse

01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:04.019
than it is. You use all the skills and experience

01:04:04.019 --> 01:04:08.179
you have to do your best to predict what performance

01:04:08.179 --> 01:04:10.579
from a field would be on a certain move or climb

01:04:10.579 --> 01:04:16.500
or series of moves. And based on that, you decide

01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:20.139
this climb will be good or this climb is not

01:04:20.139 --> 01:04:21.659
good. And if it's not good, you change it until

01:04:21.659 --> 01:04:23.780
you think it will be good. Next one from Smore.

01:04:24.829 --> 01:04:27.349
Do you think the format made the setting matter

01:04:27.349 --> 01:04:30.429
more than a typical comp? I mean, yeah, probably.

01:04:30.530 --> 01:04:35.349
It came down to two of the best climbers in the

01:04:35.349 --> 01:04:42.730
world head -to -head in one boulder. The walls

01:04:42.730 --> 01:04:44.289
were as big as they could be. We only had so

01:04:44.289 --> 01:04:50.110
much sideways room per wall. The athletes are

01:04:50.110 --> 01:04:53.829
amazing. walls we could have made the wall steeper

01:04:53.829 --> 01:04:55.809
for sure and maybe we should have for the women

01:04:55.809 --> 01:05:00.150
even steeper than it was um i really like you

01:05:00.150 --> 01:05:02.969
know we we talked about and roman uh yanya's

01:05:02.969 --> 01:05:06.570
coach suggested um you know a feel a format where

01:05:06.570 --> 01:05:08.949
the wall actually gets steeper if they both flash

01:05:08.949 --> 01:05:12.690
um or you know we also thought it was starting

01:05:12.690 --> 01:05:14.550
steep and making it less steep if no one gets

01:05:14.550 --> 01:05:17.570
anywhere like they would reclime it yeah same

01:05:17.570 --> 01:05:19.829
boulder So like, it's like, say we do like a

01:05:19.829 --> 01:05:21.949
minute or two minutes at 40 degrees and no one

01:05:21.949 --> 01:05:23.710
gets anywhere. So then we move it back to 35,

01:05:24.050 --> 01:05:26.170
you know, because that can make a huge difference.

01:05:26.230 --> 01:05:29.690
Or we move it back one degree every minute. Or,

01:05:29.710 --> 01:05:31.409
you know, there's like different ways we need

01:05:31.409 --> 01:05:34.230
to test some versions of this. But the wall angle

01:05:34.230 --> 01:05:36.409
change makes a huge difference. And it's like

01:05:36.409 --> 01:05:40.369
pretty cool to experiment with. And the athlete

01:05:40.369 --> 01:05:41.969
would have the benefit of learning the boulder

01:05:41.969 --> 01:05:44.949
and then still having to do it under harder circumstances.

01:05:45.670 --> 01:05:48.829
So you could have like a... flash battle almost

01:05:48.829 --> 01:05:50.710
where you're like yeah okay you guys are gonna

01:05:50.710 --> 01:05:52.989
flash this at 20 degrees but we're gonna keep

01:05:52.989 --> 01:05:55.449
making it five degrees steeper every minute and

01:05:55.449 --> 01:05:57.369
you have to keep beating the other person up

01:05:57.369 --> 01:05:58.690
that kind of thing and maybe that's a different

01:05:58.690 --> 01:06:02.829
format but we definitely um have thought about

01:06:02.829 --> 01:06:06.849
different ways to modify difficulty how did you

01:06:06.849 --> 01:06:10.690
end up deciding on like the um the degrees that

01:06:10.690 --> 01:06:13.489
were used in the comp uh just from forerunning

01:06:14.190 --> 01:06:16.889
like what great what angle we thought we wanted

01:06:16.889 --> 01:06:18.210
to have the walls change which they actually

01:06:18.210 --> 01:06:19.750
did between each problem but we weren't loud

01:06:19.750 --> 01:06:21.789
enough about it so people couldn't always totally

01:06:21.789 --> 01:06:26.050
tell i think um and we didn't do huge dramatic

01:06:26.050 --> 01:06:29.210
wall changes like five degrees to 40 to negative

01:06:29.210 --> 01:06:31.769
five to you know which we maybe would do next

01:06:31.769 --> 01:06:33.210
time just to make it very obvious what's going

01:06:33.210 --> 01:06:35.289
on because like the big change for the for the

01:06:35.289 --> 01:06:36.989
athlete like you know it can make a big difference

01:06:36.989 --> 01:06:39.690
the wall's a little less steep but we want the

01:06:39.690 --> 01:06:41.030
audience to understand that that's happening

01:06:41.030 --> 01:06:45.480
as well um but yeah we had a list of angles for

01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:47.699
each round like an angle for each round and then

01:06:47.699 --> 01:06:49.480
if there's a tweak angle what that was and it

01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:51.420
was taped to the wall next to the wall controller

01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:54.920
for each wall and we had the guys that our partners

01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:57.519
that made the walls were there as well with their

01:06:57.519 --> 01:07:01.820
programmer just in case and every part of the

01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:03.940
reset was also moving the wall and it was moving

01:07:03.940 --> 01:07:06.380
the wall after the set was done or before because

01:07:06.380 --> 01:07:07.820
we couldn't be moving it while people were on

01:07:07.820 --> 01:07:11.110
ladders in front of it okay Makes sense. This

01:07:11.110 --> 01:07:13.530
one you might have touched on a little bit already,

01:07:13.710 --> 01:07:16.170
but any chance we'd get mixed gender events,

01:07:16.429 --> 01:07:18.510
how would that affect or constrain the setting?

01:07:19.130 --> 01:07:21.150
Oh, yeah, I don't know. I think so. I think,

01:07:21.150 --> 01:07:23.190
like, you know, Alex Puccio, who I mentioned

01:07:23.190 --> 01:07:26.309
before, she, I watched her do moves Daniel Woods

01:07:26.309 --> 01:07:29.969
couldn't do in the spot, like, more than once.

01:07:30.010 --> 01:07:32.230
Like, she would climb with the strongest boys

01:07:32.230 --> 01:07:33.670
and be able to do some stuff they couldn't do,

01:07:33.710 --> 01:07:34.829
and they could do some stuff she couldn't do.

01:07:34.889 --> 01:07:39.159
But certainly, Yania's, you know. And everybody

01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:42.159
agrees, and Hershey does too, that she could

01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:44.659
easily compete with the men. And there's other

01:07:44.659 --> 01:07:46.699
athletes. I mean, Ori was amazing in this last

01:07:46.699 --> 01:07:48.440
event. I think there's something to be said for

01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:51.579
stylistic differences, catering to different

01:07:51.579 --> 01:07:54.159
types of athletes. So putting the men on the

01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:56.760
women's problems and then putting the women on

01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.260
the men's or having them all on the same problems

01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:00.460
might be a cool way to make sure that third boulder

01:08:00.460 --> 01:08:04.420
is used also. Don't we talk about it? Maybe we'll

01:08:04.420 --> 01:08:07.869
do it. Is that in talks for PCL? Or do you just

01:08:07.869 --> 01:08:09.909
mean like in general? Everything's in talks for

01:08:09.909 --> 01:08:13.230
PCL. Okay, gotcha. It's a pro climbing league.

01:08:13.309 --> 01:08:15.409
It's not like the IFSC is great because they

01:08:15.409 --> 01:08:17.810
have a really serious job, which is selecting

01:08:17.810 --> 01:08:20.550
the Olympic athletes for our sport. When making

01:08:20.550 --> 01:08:22.270
sure our sport is represented well in the Olympics.

01:08:23.149 --> 01:08:25.390
We don't have that serious job. Our serious job

01:08:25.390 --> 01:08:27.109
is trying to do something fun for people to watch

01:08:27.109 --> 01:08:28.949
and for the athletes to compete in, which means

01:08:28.949 --> 01:08:30.850
we can kind of do whatever. We don't have to

01:08:30.850 --> 01:08:33.069
do it a certain way. They're independent. Like

01:08:33.069 --> 01:08:34.770
it's a, it's a league, but they're also going

01:08:34.770 --> 01:08:37.170
to be standalone events or like big events, you

01:08:37.170 --> 01:08:39.649
know? And the idea is like, if you're in the

01:08:39.649 --> 01:08:42.090
surfing league and you go to Portugal, you're

01:08:42.090 --> 01:08:43.529
having a different experience than you have in

01:08:43.529 --> 01:08:48.430
Tahiti. And people expect that. And with the

01:08:48.430 --> 01:08:50.909
IFSC, it used to be, I think more regionally

01:08:50.909 --> 01:08:53.050
different, but now it's like a little more like

01:08:53.050 --> 01:08:54.529
kind of some of the same setters are traveling

01:08:54.529 --> 01:08:55.909
around the world, setting these different events.

01:08:56.250 --> 01:09:00.850
And so with PCL, like we probably will use setters

01:09:00.850 --> 01:09:03.439
who've. done the event before and maybe we mix

01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:05.420
the teams up sometimes but like you know but

01:09:05.420 --> 01:09:06.680
it's still supposed to be a fun thing for them

01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:08.159
as well because they have a little more room

01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:09.840
to experiment because they're not setting an

01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:12.920
ifsc event so they have a different format to

01:09:12.920 --> 01:09:18.270
work in it's exciting to try things Yeah, that's

01:09:18.270 --> 01:09:20.689
a cool way to think about it. Okay, this one

01:09:20.689 --> 01:09:23.250
I thought was pretty interesting. Has there been

01:09:23.250 --> 01:09:26.449
discussion to set with two different betas on

01:09:26.449 --> 01:09:29.289
one problem where one is like a risky dynamic

01:09:29.289 --> 01:09:33.409
beta and one is a hard static beta? So when I

01:09:33.409 --> 01:09:35.390
was talking about setting for Colin when he was

01:09:35.390 --> 01:09:39.930
a kid, we used to set to a boulder within a boulder

01:09:39.930 --> 01:09:42.670
quite often. And then those events spot to be

01:09:42.670 --> 01:09:44.430
at like Brooke Rabiteau and Sean Rabiteau and

01:09:44.430 --> 01:09:48.460
like other strong kids at the time. And I always

01:09:48.460 --> 01:09:50.539
enjoy doing that. So I can certainly see doing

01:09:50.539 --> 01:09:54.140
that for an event like this. The biggest question

01:09:54.140 --> 01:09:57.460
is making sure you do it well so you can have

01:09:57.460 --> 01:09:59.800
like a reasonable scoring. So the judge and team

01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:01.239
isn't just losing their mind trying to deal with

01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:03.500
the scoring. Yeah. What would you have to do

01:10:03.500 --> 01:10:05.300
in order to make that happen? Like, would you

01:10:05.300 --> 01:10:08.279
need more wall space or? Yeah, you would just

01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:11.930
need to. make sure that the options were like

01:10:11.930 --> 01:10:14.569
relatively equal difficulty so like i might find

01:10:14.569 --> 01:10:16.109
it easier one way and you might think it's easier

01:10:16.109 --> 01:10:18.529
another way but like they're all both like relatively

01:10:18.529 --> 01:10:22.670
hard in a similar way it's or like they're relatively

01:10:22.670 --> 01:10:26.310
similar difficulty i would is what you want so

01:10:26.310 --> 01:10:29.829
i mean the classic way to do it would be just

01:10:29.829 --> 01:10:32.810
give them some totally nonsense trash like slab

01:10:32.810 --> 01:10:35.289
move kind of jib things or like hard static move

01:10:35.289 --> 01:10:37.930
jib things and then or you can dyno through it

01:10:37.930 --> 01:10:40.500
but People are so good at dynoing, it feels like

01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:42.939
cheating. So then maybe it's like it is a dyno,

01:10:42.979 --> 01:10:44.880
but it's like a really hard stick or it's like

01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.939
a dynamic move, but it's a hard stick. Or you

01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:50.119
could go slow and steady kind of like if you

01:10:50.119 --> 01:10:52.760
take like athletes from this event, like I would

01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:54.500
think Annie Sanders would probably do the slow

01:10:54.500 --> 01:10:57.659
static way and go quite strongly through that,

01:10:57.699 --> 01:11:00.520
but maybe a little slower. And Yanni might just

01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:03.600
jump. So you really want to know your field if

01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.140
you are going to do something that specific because.

01:11:06.729 --> 01:11:08.670
It seems like it'd be a lot easier to blow it.

01:11:11.270 --> 01:11:15.029
But it totally would be doable. And it'd be interesting

01:11:15.029 --> 01:11:17.710
to try. So maybe. One of the audience questions

01:11:17.710 --> 01:11:21.270
that come in. Are setters typically more impressed

01:11:21.270 --> 01:11:24.189
or annoyed by beta breaks like the ones that

01:11:24.189 --> 01:11:28.829
Annie and Max did? I mean impressed. Wait, what

01:11:28.829 --> 01:11:32.529
was Annie's beta break? I don't remember if she

01:11:32.529 --> 01:11:35.739
had one specifically. She heel hooked at the

01:11:35.739 --> 01:11:39.060
top of the women's final, but like, or in the

01:11:39.060 --> 01:11:41.180
small final, but like, I mean, you could, it

01:11:41.180 --> 01:11:44.699
was just hard. It wasn't like, like what Max

01:11:44.699 --> 01:11:47.939
said was like, they did not think of that. No,

01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:49.939
I think it's, I think setters are impressed because

01:11:49.939 --> 01:11:52.239
I think setters fundamentally are nerds and enjoy

01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:53.859
movement. And like, if someone does something

01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:55.380
crazy, like we're just as psyched as everyone

01:11:55.380 --> 01:11:57.560
else. Like if the beta break is that they're

01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:00.180
just like dining through a complex sequence and

01:12:00.180 --> 01:12:02.199
you're like, oh no, it ruins the boulder. Like

01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:06.630
there's a video right now of. someone in a national

01:12:06.630 --> 01:12:08.489
team selection who just dying instead of going

01:12:08.489 --> 01:12:10.229
like left and back right they just dino straight

01:12:10.229 --> 01:12:13.430
up that always sucks but it's also usually that's

01:12:13.430 --> 01:12:14.930
pretty hard because like the setters usually

01:12:14.930 --> 01:12:17.189
have thought of it and then been like no one

01:12:17.189 --> 01:12:19.289
will do that it's too hard because like there's

01:12:19.289 --> 01:12:22.810
some amount of like if somebody can do that they're

01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:25.210
allowed to because it's so expensive to do that

01:12:25.210 --> 01:12:28.989
you know so it's like that's okay and it's interesting

01:12:28.989 --> 01:12:31.109
to see what people do and like again setters

01:12:31.109 --> 01:12:33.949
are nerds it's fun to watch people learn um and

01:12:33.949 --> 01:12:35.930
have ideas and like what they can do so i think

01:12:35.930 --> 01:12:39.109
most setters are fundamentally like excited about

01:12:39.109 --> 01:12:42.470
it still although peffling can be like very like

01:12:42.470 --> 01:12:46.569
sad also if you you know if it ruins the comp

01:12:46.569 --> 01:12:48.390
or you feel like it does but in the case of what

01:12:48.390 --> 01:12:50.369
max did like it was just crazy and everybody

01:12:50.369 --> 01:12:52.810
loved it so like you know you can't be that upset

01:12:52.810 --> 01:12:54.729
like it was awesome like he did something extreme

01:12:56.329 --> 01:12:58.350
and the amount of blood and skin left on the

01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:00.789
volume he was hand jamming against just like

01:13:00.789 --> 01:13:04.670
for shows yeah it is gross it's gross but it's

01:13:04.670 --> 01:13:07.310
like cool like he really left it out there so

01:13:07.310 --> 01:13:10.789
yeah yeah you mentioned um in the photo you had

01:13:10.789 --> 01:13:13.109
a photo of like what was left over on the volumes

01:13:13.109 --> 01:13:15.949
from his beta break yeah yeah i'll send it to

01:13:15.949 --> 01:13:18.399
you it's just like a Because, you know, he was

01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:21.239
jamming on the top of an Unleashed Terror against

01:13:21.239 --> 01:13:24.199
like the blocks or the blue pill volume above

01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:26.739
it. So the volume is the dual text, but the underside

01:13:26.739 --> 01:13:28.760
of the volume is textured. And that's how he

01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.739
was able to jam in there. And it was just like

01:13:31.739 --> 01:13:34.779
a pretty crazy jam to make, honestly. And yeah,

01:13:34.859 --> 01:13:37.619
he definitely bled all over it. Yeah, I'll throw

01:13:37.619 --> 01:13:40.260
that photo up once I get it. Okay, last two quick.

01:13:41.390 --> 01:13:44.350
Well, the first one was just, did you start setting

01:13:44.350 --> 01:13:46.029
when you were five? Because you look nowhere

01:13:46.029 --> 01:13:47.670
near old enough to have been setting for that

01:13:47.670 --> 01:13:51.270
long. Oh, that's nice. No, yeah, totally. Totally.

01:13:51.430 --> 01:13:56.229
Yeah. I was 16. Wow. I'm going to be 44 in like

01:13:56.229 --> 01:13:59.810
April, beginning of April, which is when I started

01:13:59.810 --> 01:14:01.630
climbing actually. And I started setting a few

01:14:01.630 --> 01:14:05.270
months later, like six months later or something.

01:14:05.750 --> 01:14:09.029
Yeah, that's kind of wild. Do you have any like...

01:14:09.210 --> 01:14:12.010
idea of when you would want to stop no I mean

01:14:12.010 --> 01:14:13.670
I love it I don't do it as much as I used to

01:14:13.670 --> 01:14:15.630
at all because I used to set the gym every week

01:14:15.630 --> 01:14:19.189
and you know now I set at kilter I set a lot

01:14:19.189 --> 01:14:22.710
on the kilter board um I set in our spaces for

01:14:22.710 --> 01:14:25.010
things I set like clinics and events sometimes

01:14:25.010 --> 01:14:27.149
but I definitely don't set as much as I used

01:14:27.149 --> 01:14:30.069
to and I do miss it I just I'm too busy it sucks

01:14:30.069 --> 01:14:33.909
honestly like settings I love it but it is hard

01:14:33.909 --> 01:14:36.619
on your body and When you're in your early 30s

01:14:36.619 --> 01:14:38.800
as a setter, you're like, oh gosh, what do I

01:14:38.800 --> 01:14:40.920
do next? Like, can I keep doing this? And like,

01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:44.960
how? And so when I started setting, it was very

01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:47.039
common to be able to set above your current climbing

01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:49.579
ability. And I learned how to set above my climbing

01:14:49.579 --> 01:14:52.699
ability. And I've climbed much harder outdoors

01:14:52.699 --> 01:14:55.779
than I will climb inside because I just, I'm

01:14:55.779 --> 01:14:59.840
an outdoor climber in my soul. But, you know,

01:14:59.840 --> 01:15:02.039
working with forerunners and like spending a

01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:03.600
lot of time studying movement, like I taught.

01:15:04.430 --> 01:15:06.470
you know, climbing movement for quite a while.

01:15:06.550 --> 01:15:10.689
And it lets you like have a calibrator that lets

01:15:10.689 --> 01:15:14.850
you set, you know, harder than you can currently

01:15:14.850 --> 01:15:17.489
climb for sure. And so there's like an old mentality

01:15:17.489 --> 01:15:19.189
of like, okay, you can set much harder that you

01:15:19.189 --> 01:15:21.090
can climb right now and you can be a really good

01:15:21.090 --> 01:15:23.369
setter, which is completely true. The current

01:15:23.369 --> 01:15:25.550
mentality is sort of like, you got to be like

01:15:25.550 --> 01:15:27.170
strong enough to climb it or you just aren't

01:15:27.170 --> 01:15:28.930
worth having on the team. And I think that's

01:15:28.930 --> 01:15:31.689
a losing mentality overall. Cause I think you're

01:15:31.689 --> 01:15:36.720
like, And donating the value of potentially very

01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:40.199
good judgment and concepts from people and saying,

01:15:40.199 --> 01:15:41.939
well, this other person is good enough and they're

01:15:41.939 --> 01:15:43.520
like currently strong. Because the problem is

01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:45.079
when you're too strong, you also can't evaluate

01:15:45.079 --> 01:15:47.239
things very clearly because you're too strong.

01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:51.720
So it's just going to be a constant. Like with

01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:54.020
setting, I was talking with, like I said, another

01:15:54.020 --> 01:15:56.199
setter, a really experienced setter I know last

01:15:56.199 --> 01:15:58.909
night. You basically start setting and then it's

01:15:58.909 --> 01:16:00.970
like this whole like mix of learning and being

01:16:00.970 --> 01:16:02.789
overly confident and then learning some more

01:16:02.789 --> 01:16:04.689
and then being confident and being stubborn and

01:16:04.689 --> 01:16:06.569
learning some more. And then you kind of get

01:16:06.569 --> 01:16:09.470
into this phase where you like have some like

01:16:09.470 --> 01:16:12.210
some deserved confidence. Like, OK, I like pretty

01:16:12.210 --> 01:16:15.350
much know what I'm doing. And people handle that

01:16:15.350 --> 01:16:17.149
differently. And hopefully you also start mentoring

01:16:17.149 --> 01:16:19.329
other people. But then you get to a phase where

01:16:19.329 --> 01:16:21.270
you're like, oh, I don't know anything. Anything

01:16:21.270 --> 01:16:23.729
could be possible. And I know more than like

01:16:23.729 --> 01:16:25.689
those people who know much less than me, but

01:16:25.689 --> 01:16:28.189
I don't like anything is like so many things

01:16:28.189 --> 01:16:30.470
could be true here. So it's like this funny.

01:16:31.310 --> 01:16:33.250
You do come out this other side of like this.

01:16:34.890 --> 01:16:36.770
I don't know if it's not very Zen, but something

01:16:36.770 --> 01:16:39.869
like that of just like there's infinite possibilities.

01:16:40.210 --> 01:16:43.880
And like, I don't know. what the best answer

01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:46.659
is. I know six ways to fix that. I don't know

01:16:46.659 --> 01:16:48.880
which one we should do. I would prefer this one,

01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:51.460
but I'm fine with your option too. And I'm also

01:16:51.460 --> 01:16:53.000
fine with you, even if you've been setting for

01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:54.760
five minutes, having a different solution than

01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:56.659
me that could work. And that's just something

01:16:56.659 --> 01:16:58.539
you get to because there's a lot of people that

01:16:58.539 --> 01:16:59.680
are like, oh, I know everything about setting

01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:01.920
or this is what you should do. I always know

01:17:01.920 --> 01:17:04.380
what to do or I'm always right. You run into

01:17:04.380 --> 01:17:06.140
people in that phase where you call it upsetting,

01:17:06.439 --> 01:17:09.380
but people that have been doing it even longer

01:17:09.380 --> 01:17:11.939
tend to get into this. Yeah, sure. Let's try

01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:13.779
it. You know, let's see what's possible. Like,

01:17:13.779 --> 01:17:17.260
let's see what's out there. I could learn something

01:17:17.260 --> 01:17:20.340
I don't know from anybody. Yeah, I don't know.

01:17:20.359 --> 01:17:22.359
It's just a really cool thing to be able to do.

01:17:22.399 --> 01:17:24.180
And I hope to be able to continue doing it for,

01:17:24.199 --> 01:17:27.060
you know, ever, basically. But I just not like

01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:30.720
week to week in a climbing gym. Okay. And the

01:17:30.720 --> 01:17:34.279
last one, totally different from the PCL stuff.

01:17:34.420 --> 01:17:37.119
What do you think makes Kilter stand out? Oh,

01:17:37.159 --> 01:17:40.869
what makes Kilter stand out? We are always trying

01:17:40.869 --> 01:17:43.250
to do a bunch of new things. We have kind of

01:17:43.250 --> 01:17:45.390
too many projects, but we just have a lot of

01:17:45.390 --> 01:17:47.430
ideas for climbing. Ian's been in climbing since

01:17:47.430 --> 01:17:49.449
the 80s. I've been in it since the late 90s.

01:17:49.449 --> 01:17:51.430
We've done a lot of different things. We've both

01:17:51.430 --> 01:17:53.109
been on the U .S. World Team at different points

01:17:53.109 --> 01:17:56.470
in our careers. We've both been coaches. We've

01:17:56.470 --> 01:17:59.430
both been setters. We've both been climbers outdoors

01:17:59.430 --> 01:18:01.729
in all different kinds of areas. Our third partner,

01:18:01.810 --> 01:18:04.270
Griffin, is underground one of the best boulders

01:18:04.270 --> 01:18:06.909
in the world, or he has been. He's maybe not

01:18:06.909 --> 01:18:10.260
currently because he's had a... few things pull

01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:12.779
them away but you know like strong climbers know

01:18:12.779 --> 01:18:16.079
about griff kind of thing um our team is like

01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:17.880
pretty dedicated climbers and they have a wide

01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:19.640
range of experience in the industry with setting

01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:21.520
and climbing and competing and coaching and all

01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:26.020
these things so we really um try to give people

01:18:26.020 --> 01:18:29.239
opportunities to create like cool things we want

01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:30.779
to see in climbing in the future and that's part

01:18:30.779 --> 01:18:33.579
of what we did with pcl was just try to we wanted

01:18:33.579 --> 01:18:35.199
to have a different kind of comp we met up with

01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:37.079
dan and charlie they did too and so we worked

01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:39.199
together with them on making it happen And I

01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:42.239
think like we spend a lot of time trying to do

01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:44.479
stuff like that. And then Ian always has crazy

01:18:44.479 --> 01:18:47.939
ideas and like new ideas for products like the

01:18:47.939 --> 01:18:50.560
adjustable walls and, you know, the way the kilter

01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:52.680
board works and then like the complex blocking

01:18:52.680 --> 01:18:55.840
holds and stuff that like takes a while for people

01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:58.720
to get used to and want like sometimes. But it's

01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:01.859
like they're awesome. He's always sort of misunderstood,

01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:05.460
but like. He totally sees the future. He's not

01:19:05.460 --> 01:19:08.000
wrong. The stuff that he makes is amazing. And

01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:11.859
he's also an incredible sculptor. Like I said,

01:19:11.899 --> 01:19:15.220
he can shape anything anybody else has shaped.

01:19:15.300 --> 01:19:17.699
And he can also shape unique stuff no one's thought

01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:21.180
of. And he is really good at making shapes that

01:19:21.180 --> 01:19:23.159
are also comfortable, functional climbing holds.

01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.560
Because you do see some artistic stuff out there

01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:28.539
that's got some issues that make it not a great

01:19:28.539 --> 01:19:31.550
climbing hold. Outdoors, you can get anything

01:19:31.550 --> 01:19:33.689
because it's rock. But indoors, our responsibility,

01:19:33.909 --> 01:19:36.310
I think, is to try to create a good experience

01:19:36.310 --> 01:19:38.369
for the user, whatever that experience is supposed

01:19:38.369 --> 01:19:40.170
to be. And certainly, you want it to be the intentional.

01:19:40.909 --> 01:19:45.390
You don't want a hold to be super easy to misuse

01:19:45.390 --> 01:19:48.989
and to injure people. You want holds to be good

01:19:48.989 --> 01:19:52.170
tools for route setting, basically. And that

01:19:52.170 --> 01:19:53.810
means they were designed with intention. And

01:19:53.810 --> 01:19:58.449
they are designed. They're not just a product.

01:19:59.210 --> 01:20:02.369
They're both. Yeah, I think it's interesting

01:20:02.369 --> 01:20:05.470
what you said that you make products that people

01:20:05.470 --> 01:20:08.529
don't realize that they want yet or ones that

01:20:08.529 --> 01:20:12.250
takes a while to get used to. Yeah, I guess the

01:20:12.250 --> 01:20:13.930
first thing that comes to mind there is like

01:20:13.930 --> 01:20:17.350
no -tax holds or some of like the crazy moves

01:20:17.350 --> 01:20:19.729
that they come out with during some World Cups

01:20:19.729 --> 01:20:22.890
that just end up getting used over and over after

01:20:22.890 --> 01:20:25.560
a while. People like need to learn them. I think

01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:27.340
the biggest issue with holds, like especially

01:20:27.340 --> 01:20:29.880
with comp setting is setters have like a limited

01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:31.979
time to do this pretty complex job and they're

01:20:31.979 --> 01:20:34.399
nervous about it to some degree. And so they

01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.420
tend to fall back on holds. They really know

01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:37.899
because they think, oh, I know how this is holds

01:20:37.899 --> 01:20:40.079
going to go. But what happens then is you see

01:20:40.079 --> 01:20:42.199
the same holds over and over in events. And it's

01:20:42.199 --> 01:20:44.640
not that they're necessarily the best holds.

01:20:44.699 --> 01:20:46.140
Some of them are great holds. Some of them are

01:20:46.140 --> 01:20:47.859
whatever. But they're holds the setters are familiar

01:20:47.859 --> 01:20:50.630
with. What do you need to do? You need the setters

01:20:50.630 --> 01:20:52.250
to get familiar with more holds. But they have

01:20:52.250 --> 01:20:54.010
to have the opportunity to do that. If they're

01:20:54.010 --> 01:20:57.369
flying around, you know, all over the world all

01:20:57.369 --> 01:20:59.189
the time, like, they don't have time to sit at

01:20:59.189 --> 01:21:02.050
their gym and nerd out on a set of complex holds

01:21:02.050 --> 01:21:06.090
or, you know, the newest whatever. Like, I think

01:21:06.090 --> 01:21:08.289
Ian's definitely misunderstood in some ways.

01:21:08.350 --> 01:21:09.850
There's also a lot of people that really appreciate

01:21:09.850 --> 01:21:11.710
what we're doing, which we really appreciate.

01:21:12.229 --> 01:21:14.489
But, like, you know, Laurent from Cheetah, like...

01:21:15.310 --> 01:21:17.590
arguably less misunderstood than we are, but

01:21:17.590 --> 01:21:19.090
he still comes out with stuff that people just

01:21:19.090 --> 01:21:20.989
don't get. And so they just don't use it properly.

01:21:21.170 --> 01:21:24.210
And I think even, you know, he and other, these

01:21:24.210 --> 01:21:26.130
artists shapers are like, they're committed to

01:21:26.130 --> 01:21:28.729
what they're doing. And I think it is a little

01:21:28.729 --> 01:21:32.529
hard on them. You know, Peter Jewell with Urban

01:21:32.529 --> 01:21:34.449
Plastics, who's another brand that we actually

01:21:34.449 --> 01:21:37.430
own now, but he's a great shaper and he made

01:21:37.430 --> 01:21:40.090
a new series, Multitech Stone. They're awesome.

01:21:40.270 --> 01:21:41.909
They're different. And it's going to take people

01:21:41.909 --> 01:21:43.909
for like a little while to get used to them.

01:21:45.770 --> 01:21:48.510
Two color holds, you know, it's been done a little

01:21:48.510 --> 01:21:51.449
bit successfully, but like it's protested against.

01:21:51.510 --> 01:21:53.029
But now you're seeing it more and more again.

01:21:53.189 --> 01:21:55.989
Not like you're you're up with two colors of

01:21:55.989 --> 01:21:59.989
like resin, but like two color macros, you know,

01:21:59.989 --> 01:22:03.479
white macro with a red patch or whatever. It's

01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:05.399
just about like people, people getting used to

01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:06.760
stuff. And then there's a different kind of person

01:22:06.760 --> 01:22:08.159
that sees something once and they want to try

01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.020
it immediately and figure it out. And I think

01:22:10.020 --> 01:22:12.340
the Internet's really helped route setting levels

01:22:12.340 --> 01:22:14.380
go up across the world because there's so much

01:22:14.380 --> 01:22:16.800
accessibility to what other people are doing

01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:18.880
that you can try it. You can see that move in

01:22:18.880 --> 01:22:22.199
a World Cup or on a video somebody released from

01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:23.819
their home gym and be like, that's sick. I want

01:22:23.819 --> 01:22:25.619
to try to do it. And I want to try to do it differently

01:22:25.619 --> 01:22:27.460
and better. And what if I did it like this? And

01:22:27.460 --> 01:22:30.090
so like. ideas that used to take a long time

01:22:30.090 --> 01:22:32.170
to circulate and really went around only if there

01:22:32.170 --> 01:22:34.529
was a traveling setter are going around like

01:22:34.529 --> 01:22:38.210
wildfire. Yeah. What is like an underrated hold

01:22:38.210 --> 01:22:41.649
that you think people will get into or should

01:22:41.649 --> 01:22:44.750
get into? I mean, the complex series, we stopped

01:22:44.750 --> 01:22:46.069
talking about it for a while because we just

01:22:46.069 --> 01:22:49.010
kind of got tired of people not like understanding

01:22:49.010 --> 01:22:50.909
it. Some people understand it, but like a lot

01:22:50.909 --> 01:22:52.010
of people are just kind of like, oh, I don't

01:22:52.010 --> 01:22:54.449
know. Like it seems difficult. But then meanwhile,

01:22:54.529 --> 01:22:56.369
they're screwing eight jibs together. And like

01:22:56.369 --> 01:22:59.720
to me. screwing a bunch of jibs together for

01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:01.220
a comp isn't really appropriate because if it

01:23:01.220 --> 01:23:03.000
breaks you can't replace it and also they're

01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:04.619
not really meant to be used like that so it's

01:23:04.619 --> 01:23:07.520
like not a good product complex hold is a hold

01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:10.119
that's meant to be like block about our holds

01:23:10.119 --> 01:23:12.079
like the hold maybe has an angle we use like

01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:15.279
major like 20 30 40 degrees like common angles

01:23:15.279 --> 01:23:17.560
that you might find in the gym and there's blocker

01:23:17.560 --> 01:23:19.680
holds that are meant to push against it but also

01:23:19.680 --> 01:23:21.840
like you can move them and they create a different

01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:24.600
grip on the hold so the hold like maybe it's

01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:26.060
a jug and then all of a sudden now there's only

01:23:26.060 --> 01:23:28.039
this little area available or you can only grab

01:23:28.039 --> 01:23:30.600
the lip or now it's a crimp over here so you

01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:34.079
can like change the experience of the climber

01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:36.539
and like yes you can modify stuff to block it

01:23:36.539 --> 01:23:38.680
setters like doing that but you also could use

01:23:38.680 --> 01:23:42.539
products that are designed with like the setter

01:23:42.539 --> 01:23:44.619
in mind like there's all these different blockers

01:23:44.619 --> 01:23:46.619
you can use they fit with all these different

01:23:46.619 --> 01:23:49.180
holds it's not difficult they also work great

01:23:49.180 --> 01:23:51.600
on volumes it's like just little holds or feet

01:23:52.829 --> 01:23:56.270
that you can create like an infinite number of

01:23:56.270 --> 01:23:59.510
possibilities with these tools and like we also

01:23:59.510 --> 01:24:02.010
made a wall where we block like yellow holds

01:24:02.010 --> 01:24:03.710
with red holds and green holds and then it's

01:24:03.710 --> 01:24:05.029
like you could climb the red line or the yellow

01:24:05.029 --> 01:24:06.789
line and have like a really kind of tight spray

01:24:06.789 --> 01:24:08.430
wall and that was really cool so there's just

01:24:08.430 --> 01:24:11.210
like there's a lot more experimenting to do and

01:24:11.210 --> 01:24:13.869
i think the only downside to the media trend

01:24:13.869 --> 01:24:16.590
thing with setting is people get sucked into

01:24:16.590 --> 01:24:18.270
experimenting with the trend they already see

01:24:18.270 --> 01:24:21.390
and they stop like coming up with new trends

01:24:21.390 --> 01:24:24.510
kind of or like People overdo it. They get a

01:24:24.510 --> 01:24:26.630
little too indulgent with trying something they

01:24:26.630 --> 01:24:29.729
saw at a World Cup and then they don't do enough.

01:24:30.390 --> 01:24:34.109
Like, I don't know. Like, I always loved how

01:24:34.109 --> 01:24:36.310
creative you could be as a setter. And our team

01:24:36.310 --> 01:24:38.550
was creative at the spot. We came up with all

01:24:38.550 --> 01:24:40.609
kinds of cool stuff. And I think that's one of

01:24:40.609 --> 01:24:42.369
the things that's really fun about setting. So

01:24:42.369 --> 01:24:44.189
I hope that other setting teams are continuing.

01:24:44.449 --> 01:24:45.989
And I see some of it online, but I just hope

01:24:45.989 --> 01:24:49.090
people continue to have that sense of like, I

01:24:49.090 --> 01:24:51.189
don't know if it's whimsy or experimentation

01:24:51.189 --> 01:24:54.220
or just like. joy around what's possible. Like

01:24:54.220 --> 01:24:56.180
we're basically playing with adult Legos, you

01:24:56.180 --> 01:25:00.039
know? And so like to be fun. Yeah. I will link

01:25:00.039 --> 01:25:01.840
these so people know what you're talking about.

01:25:02.659 --> 01:25:04.779
Okay. Well, I think that's all the questions

01:25:04.779 --> 01:25:07.899
I had then. Thanks for joining. Is there anything

01:25:07.899 --> 01:25:11.279
else you want to shout out or is there any like

01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:13.260
last minute words of wisdom that you have out

01:25:13.260 --> 01:25:15.399
there that you want to get out? I mean, a huge

01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:17.720
thanks to everybody involved with PCL organization,

01:25:18.260 --> 01:25:20.859
the broadcasting, the volunteers, the setting

01:25:20.859 --> 01:25:24.520
team. The support teams, like, just, it was a

01:25:24.520 --> 01:25:31.500
massive undertaking. And, like, we drove, I can't

01:25:31.500 --> 01:25:33.720
explain enough. We drove everything from, we

01:25:33.720 --> 01:25:36.079
took it down in Sheffield, drove it in trucks

01:25:36.079 --> 01:25:38.359
to London, set it up, ran the event, took it

01:25:38.359 --> 01:25:40.460
down in a matter of, like, 30 hours. Like, it's

01:25:40.460 --> 01:25:44.560
crazy. I think we had 35 hours we were in the

01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:45.819
bench, supposed to be in the venue, and I think

01:25:45.819 --> 01:25:47.920
we ran it for 40, actually, maybe. Is that right?

01:25:48.350 --> 01:25:51.430
Anyway, it was no sleep in any of that. No, I

01:25:51.430 --> 01:25:53.569
was awake for 25 hours on the day of the event.

01:25:53.670 --> 01:25:57.229
Oh, geez. But it was cool. And everybody worked

01:25:57.229 --> 01:25:58.890
really hard. And it was just really cool to have

01:25:58.890 --> 01:26:01.750
everybody work together and create like something

01:26:01.750 --> 01:26:05.750
that was I was standing on the stage when the

01:26:05.750 --> 01:26:07.689
doors open, like not on purpose. I was like messing

01:26:07.689 --> 01:26:10.149
with the camera or something. And all of a sudden

01:26:10.149 --> 01:26:12.649
there was just screaming, running people towards

01:26:12.649 --> 01:26:15.350
the bar at the front of the stage. And it was

01:26:15.350 --> 01:26:17.090
just such a cool experience. Like I've never.

01:26:17.770 --> 01:26:19.590
been in a band or anything where that's been

01:26:19.590 --> 01:26:22.789
a thing so i was just like it was like that was

01:26:22.789 --> 01:26:24.470
when i was like oh my god like this is happening

01:26:24.470 --> 01:26:29.590
you know um so yeah it was super cool um so thanks

01:26:29.590 --> 01:26:31.890
everybody for coming and for watching it and

01:26:31.890 --> 01:26:34.649
thanks to red bull for supporting it and everybody

01:26:34.649 --> 01:26:37.350
at pcl and like everybody else who contributed

01:26:37.350 --> 01:26:39.189
there was just too many people to name it's so

01:26:39.189 --> 01:26:41.409
many people that we needed to make it work and

01:26:41.409 --> 01:26:46.060
we really appreciate all of them yeah Sound really

01:26:46.060 --> 01:26:48.460
cool. I kind of wish I had gone now. I'll have

01:26:48.460 --> 01:26:50.779
to try to make it to the next one. Have FOMO.

01:26:50.779 --> 01:26:54.739
It's going to be sick. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Want

01:26:54.739 --> 01:26:57.260
to let people know where they can find you? Oh,

01:26:57.260 --> 01:27:00.859
I mean, setacloset .com is Kilter's site. And

01:27:00.859 --> 01:27:02.659
we have our walls on there, too, for people that

01:27:02.659 --> 01:27:04.739
are interested in those walls. Oh, wait. I should

01:27:04.739 --> 01:27:08.689
say this. We are working to make. Like those

01:27:08.689 --> 01:27:10.869
boulders, we saved the duplication sheets so

01:27:10.869 --> 01:27:12.949
we actually can reset them in our space. And

01:27:12.949 --> 01:27:14.770
we're working on a way to make it easier for

01:27:14.770 --> 01:27:16.930
people to duplicate them. So if you have a similar

01:27:16.930 --> 01:27:19.930
wall angle, like a big flat plane, or if you

01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:22.270
get one of these adjustable slabs that we make,

01:27:22.350 --> 01:27:25.170
slab to 40 degrees overhanging, you can reset

01:27:25.170 --> 01:27:28.149
the exact client from PCL if you want, which

01:27:28.149 --> 01:27:29.989
is really cool. And we're working on more of

01:27:29.989 --> 01:27:32.670
that in the future. So it's very easy for people

01:27:32.670 --> 01:27:34.750
that buy a wall like this or have another wall

01:27:34.750 --> 01:27:37.640
they can adapt to actually give their... gym

01:27:37.640 --> 01:27:39.880
community a chance to climb these same climbs.

01:27:40.380 --> 01:27:43.239
Oh, okay. I'd be pretty interested in that. Are

01:27:43.239 --> 01:27:45.840
you guys going to be setting that up in the Kilter

01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:49.760
warehouse? Yeah, so we're getting a new space.

01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:53.560
We had a space in Frederick, Colorado, which

01:27:53.560 --> 01:27:54.579
is near Boulder, but we're just going to get

01:27:54.579 --> 01:27:56.279
a different space a little closer to our warehouse

01:27:56.279 --> 01:27:59.359
and have our walls set up again so we can be

01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:02.159
doing that there. Yeah, and then we're just going

01:28:02.159 --> 01:28:03.579
to work in different technology to try to make

01:28:03.579 --> 01:28:05.760
it easier for people to actually do the duplication.

01:28:06.590 --> 01:28:08.430
because the other cool thing is like if you're

01:28:08.430 --> 01:28:10.470
in a place where there isn't a lot of route setting

01:28:10.470 --> 01:28:12.850
like mentorship or other people to work with

01:28:12.850 --> 01:28:14.710
something like this is very cool because then

01:28:14.710 --> 01:28:17.229
you can set these climbs into your gym and then

01:28:17.229 --> 01:28:18.810
experiment with them and like learn basically

01:28:18.810 --> 01:28:20.989
by doing that which is a nice way to like even

01:28:20.989 --> 01:28:22.989
though it's there's no person there explaining

01:28:22.989 --> 01:28:25.289
it to you you can definitely get some like remote

01:28:25.289 --> 01:28:27.050
mentorship in that way which i think is cool

01:28:27.050 --> 01:28:30.649
well i would love to try it out so if i find

01:28:30.649 --> 01:28:33.069
anywhere that's setting it i would love to get

01:28:33.069 --> 01:28:35.729
on it yeah yeah it should be cool so yeah so

01:28:35.729 --> 01:28:38.439
just Our website is settercloset .com. It's Kilter

01:28:38.439 --> 01:28:41.439
Urban Plastics. We distribute a few other brands

01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:46.399
in the U .S. as well. But PCLproclimbingleague

01:28:46.399 --> 01:28:50.479
.com. And then we're all on Instagram. Oh, and

01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:52.000
we have a YouTube, too, actually. Kilter has

01:28:52.000 --> 01:28:54.779
a YouTube. Oh, wait. Yeah, I think I have seen

01:28:54.779 --> 01:28:57.659
some videos. Yeah, we do setting sessions. So

01:28:57.659 --> 01:28:59.300
I guess the last call I want to make is if you're

01:28:59.300 --> 01:29:00.619
a route setter and you're coming through Colorado,

01:29:00.819 --> 01:29:02.520
hit us up because we'd love to do a setter session

01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:04.899
with you at the studio. and then setters who

01:29:04.899 --> 01:29:06.760
skip to come use like some of our newest stuff

01:29:06.760 --> 01:29:08.399
and set whatever they feel like and we make a

01:29:08.399 --> 01:29:10.680
little video about it and it's pretty fun just

01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:13.399
like a fun day for everybody so awesome i will

01:29:13.399 --> 01:29:16.640
link all of that below there's a lot but uh yeah

01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:18.500
there's a lot of good info Yeah, sorry. There's

01:29:18.500 --> 01:29:20.880
a lot. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you again. And

01:29:20.880 --> 01:29:22.739
it was amazing to talk to you. Yeah. Thank you

01:29:22.739 --> 01:29:25.460
so much. Thank you so much for making it to the

01:29:25.460 --> 01:29:27.859
end of the podcast. Don't forget to like and

01:29:27.859 --> 01:29:30.000
subscribe if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are

01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:33.260
a super fake climber. If you're listening on

01:29:33.260 --> 01:29:35.560
a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you

01:29:35.560 --> 01:29:38.520
rate it five stars and you can continue the discussion

01:29:38.520 --> 01:29:41.680
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:29:41.680 --> 01:29:44.119
in the description. Thanks again for listening.