58: Sam Avezou, French Olympian + Short King

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I was like world champion in youth like five

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times the fifth time and I was like okay well

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what's the next step? I have passion for competition

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in lead and I have a passion for competition

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in bowling as well. I'm not going to leave half

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of what I like for a potential medal in the Olympics.

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You won't see any world cup level bowler in a

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gym in Paris unless sometimes you have some slabs

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because the slabs can be really hard. the hardest

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physical boulders in the gym there makes no sense

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for a world cup climber you see a lot of guys

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they're showing off they're doing like some hangs

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on 10 millimeters but this if we post a video

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about this we do it like let's say once or twice

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a year it's just so painful you don't want to

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do it Welcome to another episode of the That's

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Not Real Climbing podcast. I'm your host, Jinni,

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and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today,

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Sam Avezou. Sam is a French boulder and leap

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climber who has medals from several World Cups

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and competed alongside his sister, Zelia, at

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the Paris Olympics. In this episode, we'll learn

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more about what it's like growing up in a climbing

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family. tips for climbing as a short king, why

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he struggled in the 2025 season, and how he self

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-coaches. I hope you enjoy this episode with

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Sam. Please pardon this brief intermission, but

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Now, back to the show. Okay, well, how are you

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doing today? Today's your rest day, right? Yeah,

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I'm doing fine, yeah. Sundays are usually for

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rest in my schedule. Is that your only rest day?

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Nah, I usually do like two rest days a week.

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Okay, yeah, that's a pretty standard schedule.

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Yeah. So getting right into it, I know a lot

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of people know that you come from a big family

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of climbers. What was that like? Well, it's quite

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a large question. I don't know where to start.

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I don't know too much about the background of

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your parents. Is it only your mom who competed?

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Yeah. My mom was a climbing athlete. She stopped

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the competitions in 20... 12 or 2013 she was

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already yeah it's not that old but she was already

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like 42 she was still competing that's crazy

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yeah uh but she she started competing a while

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ago like maybe i i don't know i wasn't born so

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like a real while ago and then she um took a

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break from competing like she had three kids

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my brother me and my sister and then right like

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a year later she started competing again so yeah

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she didn't have that much of a break but she

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started climbing quite late uh she wasn't into

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really climbing and probably wasn't that famous

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at the moment the climbing sport she used to

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do gymnastics and like maybe around 20 or between

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20 and 25 she started climbing and then she went

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straight to yeah geez to competition yeah wow

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yeah that's Crazy story. I'll have to talk to

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her about that because that's a lot to go through.

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And now she's the coach for the French lead team.

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She's the coach. She's going on the comps. Oh,

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wow. Okay. Yeah, that'll be definitely really

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interesting to hear about. And then does your

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dad also climb? My dad is a high school teacher.

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He's a math teacher. Okay. And so... I mean,

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since she was also climbing at the time, I guess

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at that time you were also already climbing.

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How old were you until you surpassed her in climbing

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ability? Actually, I don't know, because I started

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climbing maybe when I was like six years old,

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which is like probably 2007. And she was still

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competing. but i mean i was climbing just a little

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bit and when she stopped competing i was still

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like at the kids like uh lessons so and then

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she stopped climbing at all like after that yeah

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like for 10 years she just didn't climb so i

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don't know at one point in between i went to

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like and and now i'm a bit stronger than her

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because she's been climbing for very long so

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but she's starting to do a bit more lately try

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to get back to doing a bit more sports but yeah

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maybe she climbs like once a week or yeah it's

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interesting that she completely stopped it's

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hard for me to imagine that because i know most

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people you know when sport is their whole life

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they can't really just stop fully yeah well she

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started also like working because like as long

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as she was athletes it wasn't really professional

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yet so she really it was not like she was not

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professional uh for her like whole career and

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then when she stopped she well she was still

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working a little bit like in in uh sometimes

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in the week she was giving like gymnastics lessons

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like i don't remember it's been a long time but

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like a few times a week and then when she stopped

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she she went to almost straight to coaching and

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to the french working with the french team and

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you do her like your love time so she just yeah

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stopped climbing quite a sacrifice for the coaching

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yeah i think she was also fine not to climb she

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was she made it for quite long so yeah also almost

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a relief i think huh interesting okay yeah i

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feel i mean i still don't hear that very often

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i think i talk to climbers and they're like This

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is something I want to do for the rest of my

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life forever. Maybe not necessarily always improving,

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but at least always pulling on a bit and seeing.

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But OK, that's interesting to know. Yeah, maybe

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maybe one day I'll try to interview her in the

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future. You can try it. It's going to have to

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be in French, though. OK, I don't really speak

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French. I have a question later that talks about

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that a little bit. um she also you said she coached

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gymnastics did you ever have an interest in gymnastics

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yeah um well very small like when i um when i

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was really like baby she used to go like gymnastics

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lessons and like uh we were like three kids and

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she would like bring us to the gymnastics because

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like i mean she couldn't just leave us at home

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so we're here just chilling in the gymnastics

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Obviously, a bit too young to go. But then I

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took, like, maybe for the baby lessons with her

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at the start. And then I quit. But my sister

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did quite some. Yeah, she, like, I don't remember.

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Maybe five, six, maybe even seven years gymnastics.

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Yeah. In a club. And you just didn't like it

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much? Yeah, I liked it. It was fun. But when

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I was six years old, I went to climbing. And

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I just liked it a bit more. So, yeah. Okay. I

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went full. Yeah, what was your introduction to

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climbing like? Well, a bit the same. As a kid,

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my mom used to take care of us. She was just

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staying home and taking care of us. And when

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she was going to training, then she had to sometimes

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just take us. So I guess that's how I started

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climbing. And then slowly, when I got to the

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age where you can take lessons at the club, like

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in Messy, I was born around here and there was

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already this huge lead wall that's been here

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for a while. And I went just to the club and

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got the first lessons. Did you always know that

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you wanted to do competition stuff or outdoor

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stuff? Yeah, I think I always was into competition.

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When I grew up, like just watching the comps

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because my mom was competing. So I was watching.

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It was like for those who remember the live streamings

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in like before 2010, before 2012. It was like,

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I have no idea. You don't want to watch this.

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But we were still watching and checking on. There

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was sometimes no live streamings. It was like

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you had to check on the IFSC app. and there was

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like some little squares oh really it's like

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for the boulders she topped and we're like watching

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it refreshing the page until oh so you couldn't

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even see what she was climbing no no no oh wow

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okay and um yeah so yeah i was like i mean yeah

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competition was always the thing i i grew up

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watching and seeing so yeah I was always into

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this. One of the audience questions that came

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in, I think people are always wondering this

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about being in a climbing family, but did growing

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up in that kind of environment add pressure to

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your climbing, you felt like? No, I don't think

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so. I think also like my family, my parents are

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not like really... They don't give much pressure

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about it. They don't really mind. Even my dad

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wasn't that much into me competing. He always

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pushed me into going more to school, which I

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didn't do anyways. But he wasn't pushing me into

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competition. My mom wasn't also pushing me. They

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just let me do. And I went with my sister and

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my brother. We just went to competition because

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it was fun. But I think if like my parents wouldn't

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care if I did something else, they wouldn't care

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at all. Yeah, that's good to hear. You never

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felt like there was a time where maybe you didn't

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want to climb or compete anymore and felt like

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you had to keep going? Well, there was like some

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time I like for a year, I didn't want to compete

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that much anymore. But like it was before. The

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Tokyo Olympics, I think it was like probably

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2019. I was just out of the youth team and I

00:10:58.389 --> 00:11:03.490
was not really strong enough to be in the senior

00:11:03.490 --> 00:11:09.809
team. But I was like, the French team gathered

00:11:09.809 --> 00:11:13.470
a few people who were good at combined. I was

00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:15.889
doing combined speed, bouldering, and lead in

00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:19.049
the youth. And we were not many climbers in France

00:11:19.049 --> 00:11:23.009
to do this. So they were checking who can go

00:11:23.009 --> 00:11:26.870
potentially to Tokyo. And I was selecting in

00:11:26.870 --> 00:11:32.889
this team to hope for Tokyo. But I mean, I was...

00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.590
like going to world cups i didn't really want

00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:38.629
to go i was doing lead speed and ballering even

00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:42.049
though i didn't want to do any of those and like

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i went to many comps i just didn't want to go

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so well obviously didn't go really good and uh

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i don't yeah and then i i it's lasted like for

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a few months and never really long i always wanted

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i i knew i would compete later i just didn't

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want to do it at the moment so I always wanted

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to compete. There was no time. I thought, yeah,

00:12:05.529 --> 00:12:08.129
I'm going to quit. Was it because you didn't

00:12:08.129 --> 00:12:17.269
want to speed climb? No. Actually, maybe a little.

00:12:17.409 --> 00:12:20.970
But I mean, the speed climbing was also kind

00:12:20.970 --> 00:12:23.909
of fun at that time. I was just not really good

00:12:23.909 --> 00:12:28.629
compared to the senior. I was not good at speed.

00:12:28.769 --> 00:12:33.049
I was fine in lead. In bowling, there was no

00:12:33.049 --> 00:12:35.370
chance I was going to make it to Semi's in the

00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:38.370
World Cup. So I was like, what do you want me

00:12:38.370 --> 00:12:42.009
to do? I mean, it just makes no sense. I can

00:12:42.009 --> 00:12:44.970
try, but yeah. So it was just kind of like the

00:12:44.970 --> 00:12:49.730
lack of results. Yeah, and the lack of possibility

00:12:49.730 --> 00:12:54.269
of making good. Yeah. So you kind of struggled

00:12:54.269 --> 00:12:56.269
with the transition between youth and senior.

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Yeah, but I mean, I was still in the youth team

00:12:59.750 --> 00:13:03.629
at this moment. Like, it got better as soon as

00:13:03.629 --> 00:13:07.269
I left. The first year I went into senior was

00:13:07.269 --> 00:13:11.289
fine again. Like, I think, like, as a youth,

00:13:11.350 --> 00:13:14.230
I had also, like, very, like, very, very good

00:13:14.230 --> 00:13:18.269
results. And I was, like, just before this moment,

00:13:18.370 --> 00:13:20.909
like, in 2018, I was, like, world champion. I

00:13:20.909 --> 00:13:22.750
was, like, world champion in youth, like, five

00:13:22.750 --> 00:13:25.269
times. And it was, like, the fifth time. And

00:13:25.269 --> 00:13:28.269
I was, like, okay, well, what's the next step?

00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:32.399
I was not really sure. So yeah, but then it was

00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.259
like, it was okay. Yeah, I kind of wonder what

00:13:35.259 --> 00:13:37.740
the youth to senior transition is like in the

00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.299
men's side. I guess, how old were you when you

00:13:41.299 --> 00:13:44.440
were making the transition? I went to my first

00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:52.259
World Cup. I was 16, I think. Yeah. It was like,

00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:56.220
well, it depends who, like some of the Japanese

00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:58.600
athletes don't really have a problem with this.

00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.519
Well, it's more about like... uh physical condition

00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:06.279
uh the rest like some youth at least are really

00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.259
really good and talented climbers it's just usually

00:14:09.259 --> 00:14:16.419
lack of yeah of uh strength uh i mean yeah for

00:14:16.419 --> 00:14:18.980
me it was like mostly this i was just not strong

00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:21.860
enough the lead was fine and the leader was already

00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:25.740
like quite quite good but obviously not whole

00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:28.620
cup final but pretty okay but for bouldering

00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.460
is be too hard if you're not strong enough yeah

00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:35.159
so in the men's um between youth and senior it's

00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.500
a big difference in terms yeah there's like physical

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:40.779
huge difference well there was at the time as

00:14:40.779 --> 00:14:43.159
well i was in youth i don't know about now also

00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:46.299
i think the level in the youth teams are way

00:14:46.299 --> 00:14:51.120
way uh is way higher now than it used to be yeah

00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:56.860
uh i can see in the french team Um, when I was

00:14:56.860 --> 00:14:58.559
in the youth team, it was, it's not that long

00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.200
ago, but, uh, most people will just like, you

00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.240
know, going to school. Normally you went to school

00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.820
like all day. Then you went to climb at the end

00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:11.919
of the day, just for a few hours. And now I can

00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.759
see a lot more people like homeschooled or, uh,

00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.159
having like health. They can have this thing

00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:20.840
where you go to school half of the day and then

00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.700
you have the rest of the day to, to practice.

00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.179
Yeah. So I think it's a bit more professional,

00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:30.279
yeah. Yeah, that would help a lot. Yeah. Yeah,

00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:33.379
I guess I just wonder because I know like men

00:15:33.379 --> 00:15:36.279
go through puberty like a bit later. So then

00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.419
I think that's like when you get your huge like

00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:41.259
strength gains. And so I wonder if that kind

00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:44.860
of plays into like making the transition kind

00:15:44.860 --> 00:15:50.799
of weird. I don't know. I also can see like some,

00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.509
well, it's... i i would agree but i can see so

00:15:54.509 --> 00:15:56.850
many japanese climbers who are like obviously

00:15:56.850 --> 00:16:04.590
not not fully grown yet yeah and still so i think

00:16:04.590 --> 00:16:08.929
even without like being fully grown you can still

00:16:08.929 --> 00:16:11.070
be really really strong also you're a bit lighter

00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:16.590
so for lead it's not necessarily uh like huge

00:16:16.590 --> 00:16:19.149
chance you can some some climbers also like are

00:16:19.149 --> 00:16:21.029
really strong when they're a bit younger because

00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:25.610
you're really lean and super um lights and then

00:16:25.610 --> 00:16:28.990
they get a bit weaker as they grow a bit muscle

00:16:28.990 --> 00:16:33.610
and and get a bit more like heavy and some other

00:16:33.610 --> 00:16:38.190
just get really stronger so i i don't know i

00:16:38.190 --> 00:16:40.570
don't think there's any rule to that but yeah

00:16:40.570 --> 00:16:44.450
some some make it better some make it a bit less

00:16:44.450 --> 00:16:47.049
good just the mystery of the japanese climber

00:16:47.049 --> 00:16:50.169
yeah yeah that's the huge mystery yeah so as

00:16:50.169 --> 00:16:53.250
far as your 2025 season um how did you feel like

00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:58.769
that went uh 20 25 season uh was i mean was not

00:16:58.769 --> 00:17:03.250
my best season but i went to many comms also

00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:06.430
the first season after olympics which is i think

00:17:06.430 --> 00:17:09.099
it's a bit hard like i didn't really talk about

00:17:09.099 --> 00:17:11.779
it with many olympic athletes but i think it's

00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:14.339
a bit hard for everybody like you just made a

00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:19.839
really big um a lot of trainings a lot of like

00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:24.059
mental uh battle for uh qualifications also when

00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:26.440
you're here feels like an achievement and then

00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:29.759
it's over and you're like yeah all right it's

00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.380
all all done and so maybe a bit like you don't

00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:36.740
know what to do anymore but uh yeah i still wanted

00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:40.329
to like continue just just compete so let's see

00:17:40.329 --> 00:17:44.190
because also in the olympic here we have like

00:17:44.190 --> 00:17:47.509
access to many many resources for training which

00:17:47.509 --> 00:17:50.549
is really good you know so the progress you make

00:17:50.549 --> 00:17:53.569
in these times is huge i was like a bit also

00:17:53.569 --> 00:17:56.349
happy with my progress so my life was way better

00:17:56.349 --> 00:17:59.450
in bowling and lead so i was also thinking maybe

00:17:59.450 --> 00:18:02.609
let's continue like this and and see and get

00:18:02.609 --> 00:18:07.960
the gains uh going uh and uh i went to japan

00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.420
for a training trip in january i gotta be injured

00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:13.960
in my finger they should knowing me like for

00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.880
uh quite a while in the season and uh i i started

00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:22.039
the season quite okay i went to i'm in finals

00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.759
once i think in china in bullring in the world

00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:28.220
cup which is for me like it's a good result uh

00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:32.380
i don't make finals that often involving like

00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:37.230
happen maybe three times i think yeah max so

00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:41.470
and then but then it went like a bit a bit wrong

00:18:41.470 --> 00:18:44.789
i just had like uh i wasn't making it anymore

00:18:44.789 --> 00:18:48.549
at semifinals for like the three next world cups

00:18:48.549 --> 00:18:52.450
which was like i mean i'm not going to finals

00:18:52.450 --> 00:18:55.549
that much but semifinals usually is yeah i make

00:18:55.549 --> 00:18:59.190
it and then i i just wasn't into semis anymore

00:18:59.190 --> 00:19:04.150
like oh it was a bit annoying and uh but then

00:19:04.150 --> 00:19:07.190
i was also training lead so lead was feeling

00:19:07.190 --> 00:19:11.349
really strong but also getting results oh that's

00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.910
not great and uh yeah i mean sometimes yeah it's

00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:17.630
like that you feel you're really good on the

00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:20.329
wall if you get training but need some time to

00:19:20.329 --> 00:19:22.190
adapt like when you train something really hard

00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:24.130
usually it doesn't show up right away you have

00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:28.269
to right do some comps so it shows and then i

00:19:28.269 --> 00:19:31.490
did like few comps wasn't going great and until

00:19:32.170 --> 00:19:36.490
World Championship was quite a good end of the

00:19:36.490 --> 00:19:40.970
year. I made finals in Elite, which is pretty

00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:44.230
good. Bowling, I think I ended up in 12th place,

00:19:44.390 --> 00:19:49.109
which is not great, but it's fine. It's semifinals

00:19:49.109 --> 00:19:52.029
at least. Yeah, for sure. Better than the start

00:19:52.029 --> 00:19:55.170
of the season. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, definitely

00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:59.670
not my best season, but I made a huge progress,

00:19:59.750 --> 00:20:04.630
especially in Elite. And so I'm really happy

00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:06.630
about the training. The results are not good,

00:20:06.670 --> 00:20:09.970
but training was really good. Yeah, that's good.

00:20:10.150 --> 00:20:12.009
I definitely I don't think you're like the only

00:20:12.009 --> 00:20:15.369
athlete who did the Olympics who struggled with

00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:18.750
getting like results afterwards. Do you think

00:20:18.750 --> 00:20:21.549
the main reasoning behind that is like, do you

00:20:21.549 --> 00:20:24.170
feel like you trained less after the Olympics

00:20:24.170 --> 00:20:25.950
because you felt like you needed a break? Or

00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:29.710
was it just like the mental load of everything

00:20:29.710 --> 00:20:34.079
from the previous year? i i am not so sure uh

00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.319
i i mean after the olympics for sure i didn't

00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.019
want to like i i wanted to rest for a bit because

00:20:42.019 --> 00:20:47.480
yeah just uh it's quite heavy too yeah it's uh

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.819
heavy pressure and it's the best thing you can

00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.420
ever do but at the same time it's yeah really

00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:57.480
heavy to carry so once it's it was over i was

00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.940
like that's great i'm now like professional athlete

00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:05.779
should be fine i can also just take also i'm

00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:09.799
allowed to take some holidays yeah so yeah i

00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:13.299
just chilled for a while and then the new season

00:21:13.299 --> 00:21:16.180
like the calendar dropped and i was like okay

00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:18.339
maybe it's time to get back to it there was no

00:21:18.339 --> 00:21:21.359
like i don't want to compete anymore i was still

00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.759
excited to compete just just took a few like

00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:27.240
maybe month or two without properly training

00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.259
i was still climbing a bit but just not not training

00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:36.299
uh really and uh yeah no i i think you just have

00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:40.000
like it's a bit harder to because the objective

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.640
makes you really motivated like when you have

00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.519
olympics in a year or two you're like okay it's

00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.720
really easy to to go like fully on your project

00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:52.720
because also everybody around you is like trying

00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.420
to pursue and it helps uh once it's over like

00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:59.240
people are happy obviously but they just kind

00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.779
of spread so you're not a bit like you have a

00:22:02.779 --> 00:22:05.980
bit people are not that excited around you about

00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:10.440
it so you're also a bit less excited about it

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.140
and uh well for me at least i enjoy when it's

00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:17.980
like a huge thing and everybody's like yeah all

00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.259
my family were cheering for me i see me the federation

00:22:21.259 --> 00:22:23.900
also helps they're doing like all they can to

00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:26.680
make you perform at your best they're trying

00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.279
always asking you what do you need, what do you

00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.019
need, and really making it really professional,

00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:36.900
which is nice. And after Olympics, you have a

00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:39.640
bit less of this. I can imagine it's kind of

00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.980
like it's loud and there's a lot of support and

00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:45.079
then suddenly right after it's like dead quiet.

00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:48.220
Yeah, exactly. Which is actually really good

00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:50.240
because if it was continuing non -stop, it would

00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:53.569
be like too tiring. It's also nice to have a

00:22:53.569 --> 00:22:56.430
chill moment. Well, I guess thinking forward

00:22:56.430 --> 00:22:59.609
for the upcoming Olympics, we've heard a bit

00:22:59.609 --> 00:23:02.089
about some athletes having to strategize between

00:23:02.089 --> 00:23:06.690
choosing boulder or lead. I know Toby said that

00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:08.930
he's going to be trying to do both. What's your

00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:12.009
strategy and thought process going into it? Yeah,

00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:20.069
well, my strategy is there's no real proper strategy.

00:23:20.089 --> 00:23:22.910
It's just I like... lead and i like bouldering

00:23:22.910 --> 00:23:28.109
i like both so uh there is no way i'm gonna quit

00:23:28.109 --> 00:23:32.750
any of those really like it's uh like i have

00:23:32.750 --> 00:23:35.309
passion for competition in lead and i have a

00:23:35.309 --> 00:23:37.670
passion for competition in bouldering as well

00:23:37.670 --> 00:23:40.990
i'm not gonna believe half of what i've what

00:23:40.990 --> 00:23:45.130
i like for a potential medal in the olympics

00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:49.289
which is probably not gonna make me happier than

00:23:49.289 --> 00:23:54.079
just doing what i like every day so i'm gonna

00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:59.579
proceed on yeah both disciplines and well it's

00:23:59.579 --> 00:24:05.099
obviously hard to get qualified for both uh it's

00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:09.559
not gonna be easy even like um the french team

00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.440
is hard to get qualified i i'm i'm not gonna

00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:15.400
go to the first at least the first uh i woke

00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:18.039
up in bouldering this season because i didn't

00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:22.130
make it To the team. Yeah, it's really hard already

00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:26.049
to qualify for the team. And also, what's hard

00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:31.529
is that when you say, yeah, I want to do both

00:24:31.529 --> 00:24:35.470
disciplines, you have also the coaches. Everybody's

00:24:35.470 --> 00:24:37.789
trying to push you into choosing one discipline

00:24:37.789 --> 00:24:43.809
because their objective is Olympic medals. Right.

00:24:43.970 --> 00:24:46.769
And so they're trying to push everybody into

00:24:46.769 --> 00:24:51.549
choosing one. uh which is i mean it's like their

00:24:51.549 --> 00:24:54.569
job i mean it's fair but i think it's also not

00:24:54.569 --> 00:25:01.190
really good sometimes to uh to to take away something

00:25:01.190 --> 00:25:05.569
from somebody who's passionate just yeah i would

00:25:05.569 --> 00:25:07.890
i would personally let people do what they want

00:25:07.890 --> 00:25:13.089
i guess would you prefer to do that even if the

00:25:13.089 --> 00:25:15.390
field kind of like changed in a few years and

00:25:15.390 --> 00:25:18.170
it becomes a lot more people specialize so it

00:25:18.170 --> 00:25:21.109
becomes even harder to qualify for one or the

00:25:21.109 --> 00:25:23.809
other and then you don't qualify for either well

00:25:23.809 --> 00:25:30.170
there's like i will try to do both if uh i don't

00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:33.410
make it to the team in one i'm not gonna i'm

00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:36.130
gonna obviously like if i don't make it there's

00:25:36.130 --> 00:25:38.089
no way i'm gonna qualify for one then i'm gonna

00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:42.099
obviously push more into the other um discipline

00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:47.039
because it makes no sense to try to like run

00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.119
after even though it's over so but i'm not gonna

00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:54.460
quit any uh i'm not gonna quit any discipline

00:25:54.460 --> 00:25:57.480
and i mean for the training the field can evolve

00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.200
and people can get a bit stronger in its discipline

00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.819
but i've always trained bouldering in leeds I'm

00:26:04.819 --> 00:26:07.220
not even sure it would be good for me to switch

00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:09.259
completely. And also, like, for the lead training,

00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:11.420
most people actually train mostly bouldering.

00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.799
The lead climbers, they don't do lead, like,

00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.440
every day. You don't practice endurance every

00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.900
day. Maybe, I don't know about everybody's schedule,

00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.220
but I do, like, maximum twice a week the lead

00:26:24.220 --> 00:26:27.559
training. Oh, okay. And I average more than this.

00:26:27.700 --> 00:26:31.680
And usually, I actually also do, like, once a

00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.180
week. when I just like in the regular training.

00:26:35.299 --> 00:26:39.019
So for me, I train it still mostly bullring.

00:26:39.259 --> 00:26:42.819
Okay, that's good to know. Do you feel like lead

00:26:42.819 --> 00:26:44.819
climbing just comes to you more naturally or

00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:46.859
like what are your strengths and weaknesses?

00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.160
Yeah, I think lead is, I'm a bit more like suited

00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.680
for leads. Like there are a few reasons. This

00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:01.299
first, I think my body type is really good for

00:27:01.299 --> 00:27:08.190
lead. I'm quite light, which is really good for

00:27:08.190 --> 00:27:10.750
lead. And I have really good finger strength,

00:27:10.950 --> 00:27:16.329
which is also really good for lead. And being

00:27:16.329 --> 00:27:21.430
small in lead is usually not that much of a problem.

00:27:21.450 --> 00:27:23.430
It's a bit less of a problem than in bouldering.

00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:26.369
When bouldering, sometimes it's not really good

00:27:26.369 --> 00:27:29.990
to have short arms and being small. It can happen

00:27:29.990 --> 00:27:33.250
that it's... it's not the best but for lead usually

00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:36.369
it's pretty good to be a bit like light and and

00:27:36.369 --> 00:27:42.710
small and also there's another reason um i when

00:27:42.710 --> 00:27:44.609
i started climbing it was actually doing the

00:27:44.609 --> 00:27:47.109
only lead it was only a lead wall in my city

00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:52.450
yeah so as until i was like 15 i think i there

00:27:52.450 --> 00:27:55.890
was like no bouldering gyms like now nowadays

00:27:55.890 --> 00:27:58.569
we have like many many bouldering gyms in paris

00:27:58.569 --> 00:28:02.579
but 10 years ago there was none Or maybe there

00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:04.859
was one at the opposite side of Paris. I couldn't

00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:07.819
go on my own. I was just not going. So I was

00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:12.759
just training leads until I was 15. So I think

00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:17.220
also that's why I tend to have a bit better results

00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:20.680
at the lead and a bit better feeling on the lead

00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:25.259
wall. I didn't really grow up into bouldering

00:28:25.259 --> 00:28:28.119
and also modern style bouldering. Yeah, that

00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:29.940
makes sense. Yeah, this didn't really exist.

00:28:30.569 --> 00:28:33.170
Yeah, you mentioned that maybe you're, like,

00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:35.990
smaller or have shorter arms. What's your, like,

00:28:35.990 --> 00:28:40.789
height and wingspan? I'm 170. I think it's, like,

00:28:40.829 --> 00:28:46.130
5 '7". Oh, you're also? Yeah. And, like,

00:28:46.130 --> 00:28:49.190
span. Oh, okay. So you still have a plus. Yeah,

00:28:49.190 --> 00:28:54.769
yeah, yeah. But 74 is... For an average World

00:28:54.769 --> 00:28:58.109
Cup climber, 74 is... Oh, really? It's really

00:28:58.109 --> 00:29:03.700
short, yeah. It's like Max is a bit smaller than

00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:07.619
me. I think it's basically only him and maybe

00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:11.299
one other guy. We are like the shortest. Most

00:29:11.299 --> 00:29:14.380
guys are. Some of them are not. Yeah, Sasha is

00:29:14.380 --> 00:29:16.299
also really, really short, but he's doing lead.

00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:20.319
Yeah. In bowling, you don't have many. You have

00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.240
short at least, but with really long arms. Right.

00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:27.700
True. Okay. Yeah, I think. I feel like there's

00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:29.940
a lot, there's always a lot of talk about setting

00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:32.880
being unfair on the women's side for like shorter

00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.339
women. It's never really talked about on the

00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:37.819
men's side. Please excuse this brief intermission,

00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:39.960
but if you're interested in ad -free episodes

00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.400
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00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:45.039
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00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.059
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00:29:48.059 --> 00:29:50.539
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perks include a membership pin shipped to you

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help out non -monetarily, liking, commenting,

00:30:09.750 --> 00:30:12.589
and sharing helps a great deal as well. Back

00:30:12.589 --> 00:30:16.049
to the show. It's more obvious in the women's

00:30:16.049 --> 00:30:19.690
because the difference is huge between the tallest.

00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:23.190
At least like you have some girls who have same

00:30:23.190 --> 00:30:26.410
as boys span, like really long arms. But you

00:30:26.410 --> 00:30:28.809
have also some way smaller girls than we have

00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:31.710
in the boys. Like, well, my sister, for example,

00:30:31.789 --> 00:30:36.029
she's like 157 and she has about like 157 span.

00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:38.970
Meanwhile, the tallest leads in the girls are

00:30:38.970 --> 00:30:41.589
like, I don't know, probably some of them are

00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:46.269
like 180 and they have 180 or 190 span. It's

00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:49.680
like a huge difference. I see. what about like

00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.680
between you and like paul and paul paul is one

00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:58.759
i would say one maybe 185 and he has pretty much

00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.480
like two almost two meters uh for a span yeah

00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:03.759
i didn't know there was such a big difference

00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.099
on the limit side that's good to know yeah so

00:31:06.099 --> 00:31:08.119
you feel like you struggle more with like the

00:31:08.119 --> 00:31:11.660
big moves in boulder yeah it's more like usually

00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:15.099
the jumps that are making it hard the rush is

00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:18.400
it's fine if it's big moves but you can reach

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.700
then it's okay but they usually the setters don't

00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:24.279
make a move that i i just cannot reach this they

00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.460
still be a bit careful about this because it

00:31:27.460 --> 00:31:30.500
would be quite ugly to see somebody just not

00:31:30.500 --> 00:31:33.380
reaching yeah yeah Well, then you'll start getting

00:31:33.380 --> 00:31:35.440
the same complaints as the women's circuit, I

00:31:35.440 --> 00:31:37.460
guess. Yeah, exactly. So one of the audience

00:31:37.460 --> 00:31:41.220
questions that came in from Josh Malapit, top

00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:44.220
three tips for short kings and useful training

00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:47.480
routines related to that. Short kings, you got

00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:53.000
to be really powerful if you're short. Well,

00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:55.920
it depends. I mean, this question is interesting,

00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.140
but I don't know. Is he doing bouldering lead?

00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:01.420
I don't know. We don't know. Yeah, that's true.

00:32:02.140 --> 00:32:05.480
Let's do... Well, I mean, are the tips different

00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.180
for bouldering versus lead? Yeah. Also different

00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:12.519
if you climb inside or outdoors. If you're a

00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:15.579
short king, if you want to do competition, you

00:32:15.579 --> 00:32:18.720
really have to train the legs because you're

00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:22.400
going to have to jump a bit higher than everybody.

00:32:22.859 --> 00:32:24.599
That's going to be the main difference. Also

00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.710
in bouldering, it's not... All boulders, it's

00:32:28.710 --> 00:32:32.829
not always better to be tall. I mean, being light

00:32:32.829 --> 00:32:38.950
is also really good. Where it's really a problem

00:32:38.950 --> 00:32:42.529
is mostly for jumps, actually. The rest is fine.

00:32:42.609 --> 00:32:46.289
You can be really strong while being short. So

00:32:46.289 --> 00:32:48.549
yeah, I would advise just if you're into competition,

00:32:48.789 --> 00:32:57.579
work on the jumps and be good at slabs. This

00:32:57.579 --> 00:33:02.539
can get you out of bad situations. And yeah,

00:33:02.700 --> 00:33:06.579
you got to have good grip, flexible. You got

00:33:06.579 --> 00:33:09.660
to be strong at everything if you're short. You

00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:14.279
cannot have some weak spots. Okay. What about

00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:16.720
for outdoors? I don't climb that much outdoors,

00:33:16.779 --> 00:33:19.220
but I think most people who climb outdoors have

00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:25.579
really good grip. going outdoors it means that

00:33:25.579 --> 00:33:27.460
you can choose the boulders as well so if you're

00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:30.359
short you can just choose boulders yeah exactly

00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:34.059
okay that's what i would do like it's also fun

00:33:34.059 --> 00:33:37.200
to get like uh spanned on moves but if you just

00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.599
can't reach them maybe just do something else

00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.940
yeah i mean i guess outdoors it doesn't even

00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:45.440
really matter as much because i mean there's

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.460
also gonna be like women climbing those same

00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:51.420
yeah like climbs probably and so they'll also

00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:54.359
probably be shorter So I think you can find your

00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:56.759
own beta that way. Yeah, if there's a boulder,

00:33:56.859 --> 00:33:58.839
you can also find your own beta. Some boulders

00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.079
you cannot, but I think most of them you can

00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:05.380
find a way. Sometimes when I go climb outside,

00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.260
there's this boulder, and especially in Font,

00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:11.920
you have this hole and this hole, and you just

00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:15.300
cannot reach. I mean, it's okay. You have many

00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:18.030
boulders around, just do something else. so do

00:34:18.030 --> 00:34:20.610
you have like do you incorporate a lot of power

00:34:20.610 --> 00:34:22.630
and like like stuff into your training routine

00:34:22.630 --> 00:34:29.369
yeah i do uh like trainings uh i did this year

00:34:29.369 --> 00:34:33.510
um i started for like two or three months in

00:34:33.510 --> 00:34:40.889
the winter i did um two sessions a week uh of

00:34:40.889 --> 00:34:45.090
like training i uh i have a friend who's working

00:34:45.090 --> 00:34:49.400
in um He's coaching. I don't know how you call

00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.400
these guys in English, but the guys at the gym

00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:56.500
who are like teachers, how you call this? Specifically

00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:59.659
for the weight training. Oh, like power lifting?

00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.860
Yeah, something like this. Bodybuilding? Yeah,

00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:07.579
for basketball players. He's working for this.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:10.460
Oh, no, I don't know what that is. Okay. Well,

00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.500
I also don't know. Editing here, I think the

00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:17.320
word is plyometrics. So I have a friend who's

00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:19.659
doing this, and so I asked him, yeah, I want

00:35:19.659 --> 00:35:23.280
to jump higher, and can you, like, start a schedule

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.079
near training? I also have some training on the

00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:28.980
side, like, for climbing, so I cannot do, like,

00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:32.679
this whole day. But I can do twice a week for,

00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:35.880
like, let's say an hour to two hours session.

00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:39.500
And I have a few months, like, can you get me

00:35:39.500 --> 00:35:41.780
programmed to get, like, jump higher? And I did,

00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.289
and it's working pretty well. okay so then going

00:35:44.289 --> 00:35:47.309
into your training a bit um well how often do

00:35:47.309 --> 00:35:49.389
you train with the french team is there much

00:35:49.389 --> 00:35:51.829
like team training or is it just mostly yeah

00:35:51.829 --> 00:35:55.210
we have team training sometimes when next week

00:35:55.210 --> 00:35:58.650
i'm going to team training we have uh team trainings

00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:03.210
in bouldering in lead quite often i would say

00:36:03.210 --> 00:36:10.150
let's maybe once every two months and but this

00:36:10.150 --> 00:36:12.530
is like everybody comes and we all train together

00:36:12.530 --> 00:36:15.070
in ballering it's usually in fontainebleau in

00:36:15.070 --> 00:36:20.010
karma uh we have some boulders sets and simulations

00:36:20.010 --> 00:36:25.070
and yeah it's really good uh and lead it's about

00:36:25.070 --> 00:36:27.789
the same a bit i think we have a bit more in

00:36:27.789 --> 00:36:30.769
lead but a bit less people though because it's

00:36:30.769 --> 00:36:34.329
sometimes like the coach uh one of the coaching

00:36:34.329 --> 00:36:36.670
leading well there's my mom he's one of the coaches

00:36:36.670 --> 00:36:39.969
and the Let's say the boss, the main coach of

00:36:39.969 --> 00:36:43.070
the late team is Romain Desgrange. And he lives

00:36:43.070 --> 00:36:48.909
in Chamonix. And so he does sometimes, quite

00:36:48.909 --> 00:36:51.469
often, some training camps in Chamonix. But it's

00:36:51.469 --> 00:36:54.309
a bit hard to get there. So usually not many

00:36:54.309 --> 00:36:57.030
people go. So you guys don't have a national

00:36:57.030 --> 00:36:58.630
training center or anything like that? Yeah,

00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:03.690
we have. We have two or three. Oh, wow. We have

00:37:03.690 --> 00:37:09.739
three, actually. But, I mean... It's just the

00:37:09.739 --> 00:37:13.300
center. We have one in Voiron, close to Grenoble.

00:37:13.699 --> 00:37:20.340
The one in Voiron is... Most of the climbers

00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:25.559
there are from the youth team. And a few are

00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:31.300
from the senior team. Not many guys from the

00:37:31.300 --> 00:37:34.559
French team are actually from this place. And

00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:38.440
Karma, the Fontainebleau wall, that's a training

00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:42.760
center. And everybody from the bouldering team

00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:47.000
goes there. And you mentioned that you do your

00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.659
training, or you write your own training plan?

00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:51.699
And you've been doing that for a while? Yeah,

00:37:51.699 --> 00:37:56.099
I do. How do you come up with what you need to

00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:59.559
work on? Well, I just watched the comps, I realized.

00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.780
Like I was in the comp, I can see also other

00:38:04.780 --> 00:38:07.679
people climbing. I also trained with some other

00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:11.039
people from the World Cups. It's not so hard

00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:15.460
to see where you suck at. It's usually quite

00:38:15.460 --> 00:38:17.380
obvious, especially when you're climbing with

00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:19.820
the best climbers in the world. If there's a

00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:22.599
little thing you like, then it's quite obvious.

00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.880
So you don't even work with like a coach who

00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:28.960
watches back your videos or like a strength and

00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.079
conditioning coach or anything like that? Well,

00:38:31.219 --> 00:38:34.219
I have this guy for my legs. Oh, okay. Yeah.

00:38:34.300 --> 00:38:39.900
I also have a physio I go to see really often.

00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:43.840
Like, let's say almost once a week. but i don't

00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:46.199
really have a coach to like you know check the

00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:48.500
videos and stuff i just you know i just like

00:38:48.500 --> 00:38:51.019
to do it myself i also have some people around

00:38:51.019 --> 00:38:54.039
like i mean i'm not completely alone i can talk

00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.519
about it with the french team coaches if i want

00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:02.219
to like let's say after a comp uh every time

00:39:02.219 --> 00:39:04.559
we have a calm then after the comp the coach

00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:06.860
is gonna come to us and say okay this was good

00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:10.099
this was maybe you can improve a bit so it's

00:39:10.099 --> 00:39:14.199
not fully blind and some Also, I have, well,

00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:17.059
my mom also, I see her a lot. So if she thinks

00:39:17.059 --> 00:39:20.579
of something, she just tells me, you know. I

00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:24.360
have also another guy who's in my club, Jim.

00:39:25.340 --> 00:39:28.539
He's a coach for the club. He's not my coach,

00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.079
but he's usually here when I train the lead.

00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:33.300
He's coaching a few guys from the French team,

00:39:33.340 --> 00:39:36.739
from the lead team. And he's setting all the

00:39:36.739 --> 00:39:40.519
routes. He's asking for some route setters to

00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:44.320
come. I think also a big part of the training

00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:48.159
is just management, just asking people to come

00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:53.199
for setting, preparing some trips, stuff like

00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:55.719
this. One of the audience questions that came

00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:59.900
in was from t -rex .beta, and it was, how do

00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:05.760
you self -coach? Well, first you have to be really

00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:10.369
motivated. what's gonna be the first thing you're

00:40:10.369 --> 00:40:13.710
gonna like is getting pushed by somebody or or

00:40:13.710 --> 00:40:17.469
if nobody's watching you it's like yeah you have

00:40:17.469 --> 00:40:20.090
to be serious otherwise if nobody tells you what

00:40:20.090 --> 00:40:22.989
to do you're gonna slowly drift to doing nothing

00:40:22.989 --> 00:40:26.090
and just okay just enjoying so yeah you gotta

00:40:26.090 --> 00:40:31.309
be a little serious um but i mean i also once

00:40:31.309 --> 00:40:33.429
again i don't know who who that person is and

00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:36.730
what what he is doing so it's hard to insert

00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.760
But if you're into competition, I think you're

00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:44.219
already quite motivated. So if you feel like

00:40:44.219 --> 00:40:46.119
you want to coach yourself, it's really also

00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:50.719
important to watch a lot, to watch the comps,

00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:56.480
try to ask if you have the chance to the best

00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.519
athletes, what are you doing? What are you training

00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.739
every day? To watch them climb, watch them train

00:41:02.739 --> 00:41:07.639
as well, not only in comps. Yeah, you can learn

00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:09.699
a lot from that. Yeah, that makes sense. A lot

00:41:09.699 --> 00:41:11.980
of recording yourself and watching that back.

00:41:12.099 --> 00:41:15.239
Yeah, recording yourself and also watching other

00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:22.760
people climbing and trying to do it on purpose,

00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:26.869
like to copy. Yeah, that makes sense. And since

00:41:26.869 --> 00:41:30.050
maybe you have some insight into this, what differences

00:41:30.050 --> 00:41:32.610
are there between your mom's training and your

00:41:32.610 --> 00:41:35.030
training nowadays? Is there something new that

00:41:35.030 --> 00:41:37.489
people have learned in this time for better climbing?

00:41:37.969 --> 00:41:41.690
Yeah, I think there's quite a difference. My

00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:48.530
mom, she studied a lot for sports science. And

00:41:48.530 --> 00:41:54.380
she's really into... physical training, like

00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:56.519
weightlifting, physical training, everything

00:41:56.519 --> 00:42:01.199
you can do besides of climbing. And I usually

00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:04.500
try to do most of my training just climbing and

00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:07.739
do just a little bit what I need on the weightlifting.

00:42:07.980 --> 00:42:11.239
She's really into the lifting and getting strong

00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:16.300
without being on the wall, which is for some

00:42:16.300 --> 00:42:19.960
people really good. It's just like also everybody's

00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:23.130
different. Some people really like this. and

00:42:23.130 --> 00:42:25.949
so it's really nice for them some people like

00:42:25.949 --> 00:42:29.929
something else so everybody doesn't train like

00:42:29.929 --> 00:42:33.630
the same way even in the world cups like everybody

00:42:33.630 --> 00:42:36.409
has his own plan i think it kind of seems like

00:42:36.409 --> 00:42:39.349
there's more of a focus on technique rather than

00:42:39.349 --> 00:42:43.630
like physique or physical um pulling specifically

00:42:43.630 --> 00:42:46.050
in the french team do you think that is the case

00:42:46.050 --> 00:42:51.469
uh yeah well if you compare it to your like Other

00:42:51.469 --> 00:42:57.329
teams, yes. Also, the culture of the sport in

00:42:57.329 --> 00:43:02.530
France is... Now we see this, what you're talking

00:43:02.530 --> 00:43:07.150
about, a lot in the youth leagues. Because about

00:43:07.150 --> 00:43:10.650
10 years ago, we started to have many, many commercial

00:43:10.650 --> 00:43:14.670
gyms in Paris and in France. And suddenly, a

00:43:14.670 --> 00:43:17.309
lot of people started climbing. But those gyms

00:43:17.309 --> 00:43:20.369
were not designed for building World Cup athletes.

00:43:20.969 --> 00:43:24.030
they were designed to like make some money to

00:43:24.030 --> 00:43:30.070
get some clients so um it was like most of those

00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:36.170
gyms had only slabs and or almost only slabs

00:43:36.170 --> 00:43:43.050
and not necessarily hard boulders so yeah like

00:43:43.050 --> 00:43:46.909
the french style drifted slowly to everybody

00:43:46.909 --> 00:43:49.550
like when you have only have this to train on

00:43:49.550 --> 00:43:53.650
then you get good at it but you like some some

00:43:53.650 --> 00:43:56.489
other stuff it's like the opposite of the japanese

00:43:56.489 --> 00:44:00.090
climbing team like complete opposite they have

00:44:00.090 --> 00:44:05.630
like uh very very small fewer gyms but they don't

00:44:05.630 --> 00:44:08.429
have any slab at all they're more into like yeah

00:44:08.429 --> 00:44:12.710
they're a bit less the gyms are a bit less commercial

00:44:13.340 --> 00:44:15.940
It's a bit more like, let's say somebody opens

00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:18.300
his gym, he's like passionate about climbing

00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:21.460
and usually a bit about rock climbing. So they

00:44:21.460 --> 00:44:25.320
sit like this, they buy this very, very small

00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.519
place and they just make like everything overhanging.

00:44:28.900 --> 00:44:31.960
Okay. So while everybody's good at overhangs,

00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:35.159
there's no like secret and obviously likes a

00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.559
bit sometimes in slabs. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily

00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:40.550
say that just because a gym is all slabs. necessarily

00:44:40.550 --> 00:44:43.250
means it's gonna be easy i think a lot of people

00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:46.309
think that also the the route setting is yeah

00:44:46.309 --> 00:44:49.090
more like commercial you don't have like compared

00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:51.989
to i'm i'm just saying compared to japan actually

00:44:51.989 --> 00:44:56.570
because other other uh countries i have the same

00:44:56.570 --> 00:45:00.530
uh in like let's say now you go to paris uh any

00:45:00.530 --> 00:45:03.250
gym in paris you have like maybe one that's makes

00:45:03.250 --> 00:45:07.869
some time some world cup level boulders but You

00:45:07.869 --> 00:45:10.949
won't see any walk -up level boulder in a gym

00:45:10.949 --> 00:45:14.210
in Paris unless sometimes you have some slabs

00:45:14.210 --> 00:45:17.690
because the slabs can be really hard, but nothing

00:45:17.690 --> 00:45:21.070
else. The hardest physical boulders in the gym,

00:45:21.070 --> 00:45:23.469
there makes no sense for a walk -up climber in

00:45:23.469 --> 00:45:27.789
most gyms. Are there any gyms in Paris that you

00:45:27.789 --> 00:45:30.110
think people should check out or go to if they

00:45:30.110 --> 00:45:34.820
want true hard climbing? Yeah, well... one that

00:45:34.820 --> 00:45:40.239
like inside of paris uh the one that's most interesting

00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:42.860
is climbing district the one where you have this

00:45:42.860 --> 00:45:49.460
comp like the tba the couple uh comp um this

00:45:49.460 --> 00:45:52.460
one usually they have like a kind of comp wall

00:45:52.460 --> 00:45:56.300
uh like it's on two floors and the second floor

00:45:56.300 --> 00:46:01.320
has a comp wall and they set uh during the season

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:04.360
they always set a simulation for world cup So

00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:09.119
they almost always have hard bowlers, like four

00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.820
bowlers for men and four bowlers for women. Oh,

00:46:12.820 --> 00:46:15.179
perfect. Okay, cool. Which is really good for,

00:46:15.260 --> 00:46:18.500
yeah, usually people who come to Paris for training,

00:46:18.599 --> 00:46:21.880
the international, at least they go here at least

00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.340
once to do the simulation. Then you have Karma,

00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:28.039
well, because it's not inside of Paris, like

00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.440
it's in Fontainebleau. You have karma, you always

00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.500
have hard boulders. And close to Paris, where

00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:37.099
I live in Messy, we have one that's Arcos. Arcos,

00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.440
Messy. We have two route setters here, Sergio

00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:44.920
and Maelis. They are IFC route setters. And they're

00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:49.059
employed in this gym. Also, many strong climbers

00:46:49.059 --> 00:46:53.340
leave Messy and go to this gym. So they're also

00:46:53.340 --> 00:46:57.340
allowed to set a little harder. Next time I come

00:46:57.340 --> 00:46:58.940
to Paris, I'll have to check it out. Yeah, yeah.

00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:03.199
This one, Akos Masi, is probably the nicest.

00:47:03.460 --> 00:47:06.760
And also, as it's not inside of Paris, usually

00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:09.659
a bit less crowded. What are your top tips for

00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:13.420
French slab? Obviously, you have to do a lot.

00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.559
It's hard because you have many kinds of slabs.

00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:18.880
You have the ones with the small footholds. You

00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.420
have the ones with the volumes. You have the

00:47:20.420 --> 00:47:23.239
ones with coordination. Let's say you want to

00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:26.519
get good at slabbing in competition. You usually

00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:31.130
have some trends in the setting. A few years

00:47:31.130 --> 00:47:33.309
ago, for example, we had a lot of like walking

00:47:33.309 --> 00:47:37.110
on volumes. This was like the thing we had to

00:47:37.110 --> 00:47:39.349
walk on volumes. And like the next year, last

00:47:39.349 --> 00:47:42.909
year, now it's a bit more like you have a slab,

00:47:42.929 --> 00:47:45.329
then it's going to be really small feet. So those

00:47:45.329 --> 00:47:47.849
are like two really different. So if you see

00:47:47.849 --> 00:47:49.769
like this year in the World Cup, they start to

00:47:49.769 --> 00:47:53.269
do like small feet or more coordination or there's

00:47:53.269 --> 00:47:57.269
a move. Like, you know, for example, for a few

00:47:57.269 --> 00:48:02.619
months now in the French, Like in the country,

00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.659
in the setting, there was like a trend where

00:48:04.659 --> 00:48:07.940
you had to, in a slab, kind of run and land on

00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:11.139
a small foothold. This was a thing. Then you

00:48:11.139 --> 00:48:13.340
see this, then just practice this, try to set

00:48:13.340 --> 00:48:15.800
it yourself. Do it a few times, your body's going

00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:17.679
to learn. And then you're going to see, usually

00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:19.780
in the comps, it's a bit less hard than what

00:48:19.780 --> 00:48:22.559
you can do in an hour or two. So you're going

00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:24.780
to make it a bit easier. But I think you've got

00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:28.500
to really practice on... obviously boulders,

00:48:28.579 --> 00:48:30.679
but also some moves that you see often. Like

00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:33.420
you have a few moves that are always the boulders.

00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:37.360
And if you cannot do like the basic movements,

00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.119
then you're never going to do the boulders. What

00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:43.119
are the basic movements? Yeah, like standing

00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:46.940
on a foot is very technical sometimes. Like with

00:48:46.940 --> 00:48:49.519
the balance, you can shift from one side to another

00:48:49.519 --> 00:48:55.199
to gain some speed. Like, yeah, mostly just standing,

00:48:55.579 --> 00:48:59.320
foot like... How do you say this? Swapping foot.

00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:01.800
Yeah, just swapping feet. Swapping feet. You

00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.199
also just drink it a few, doing it a few times

00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:08.079
each time you go to the gym. It's going to make

00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:11.619
you more confident. And you're going to understand

00:49:11.619 --> 00:49:14.019
like you start probably at first you're going

00:49:14.019 --> 00:49:16.780
to be like this trying to do it slowly. And then

00:49:16.780 --> 00:49:18.579
you're going to find technique that suits for

00:49:18.579 --> 00:49:20.599
you. Like maybe putting your foot like this works

00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.280
better. And if you do it like every day, you're

00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.260
going to feel like, yeah, this is the way. And

00:49:25.260 --> 00:49:26.539
you're going to show up on the boulder in the

00:49:26.539 --> 00:49:28.559
comp and be like, you're not going to have to

00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.480
think of it. It's just going to do it. Yeah.

00:49:30.579 --> 00:49:33.159
Do you have tips for maybe like trusting your

00:49:33.159 --> 00:49:36.780
feet? Trusting your feet. Other than just trust

00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:40.539
your feet. Other than just trust your feet. It's,

00:49:40.539 --> 00:49:45.880
I mean, the shoes are important, but there's

00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:50.119
no better, yeah. Trust your feet. Also, even

00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:53.579
us, we have this problem in the World Cups and

00:49:53.579 --> 00:49:56.340
in the trainings. And the coaches, when they

00:49:56.340 --> 00:50:01.599
see us on the slab and we're just not confident,

00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:06.579
they also say, just trust it. There's worst case

00:50:06.579 --> 00:50:10.380
scenario, you slip. But if you start to not trust

00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:12.760
it and look at it and get your ass out of the

00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:14.940
wall, that's the worst you can do. So, yeah.

00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.039
The only way is to trust even if you feel like

00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:21.300
it's slipping. And maybe you get lucky this time

00:50:21.300 --> 00:50:26.039
it's going to stick. It's a percentage. It's

00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:30.340
statistics. Sometimes it's going to be worth

00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:33.099
it. Do you think you have a lot of trouble trusting

00:50:33.099 --> 00:50:35.800
it? Or at some point, do you just kind of just

00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:38.460
go for it? Well, the holes can always be smaller.

00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:43.400
Yeah. You always have some trouble with this.

00:50:44.139 --> 00:50:47.559
but it's funny because you can like when i told

00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:51.320
you like to practice moves like a lot to do and

00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:53.619
do again like let's say you do a slab let's do

00:50:53.619 --> 00:50:55.539
again and try to do it like three times in a

00:50:55.539 --> 00:50:58.699
row for example i do that a lot because sometimes

00:50:58.699 --> 00:51:01.960
you show up on a boulder it's a slab and you

00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:04.760
have like one full hole you're not feeling confident

00:51:04.760 --> 00:51:07.019
you're not feeling confident you do a few tries

00:51:07.019 --> 00:51:09.159
you're getting like far from the wall falling

00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:14.079
and then once you do the boulder suddenly you

00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.820
the the foothold is not better but you just can

00:51:16.820 --> 00:51:20.920
do it easily because you your range is so that

00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:24.239
it's possible you can do it so you trust it and

00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.639
you do it easily happens a lot on slabs so maybe

00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:31.539
it's just like watch someone else do it and believe

00:51:31.539 --> 00:51:34.840
you can also do it well also like also watching

00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.920
somebody do it is helps a lot in the confidence

00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:41.840
yeah yeah definitely Okay. And then I guess sort

00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:45.960
of along the lines of that, with what's going

00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.900
on mentally when you're climbing, one of the

00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:52.519
audience questions that came in from Anselm .alp,

00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:54.880
what are you thinking about when you're climbing?

00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:05.840
That's a tough question. It depends. best case

00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.280
is you're not thinking of anything you're just

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:10.320
climbing you're in a comp everything is going

00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:14.920
fine moves are like doing fine you're you're

00:52:14.920 --> 00:52:18.780
not thinking you're uh actually sometimes when

00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:20.860
you climb well and you're you have a good flow

00:52:20.860 --> 00:52:24.880
you don't even remember climbing the route uh

00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:28.800
this is the best you don't hear or see anything

00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:33.980
it just goes uh sometimes you're like thinking

00:52:33.980 --> 00:52:38.929
of if let's say I'm on a slab I'm thinking of

00:52:38.929 --> 00:52:41.590
I'm trying to think of one thing like for this

00:52:41.590 --> 00:52:45.269
move like go really far right or go really far

00:52:45.269 --> 00:52:48.070
left or move this hand like this and I'm trying

00:52:48.070 --> 00:52:52.570
to keep it like one thing so so the rest doesn't

00:52:52.570 --> 00:52:55.869
like bother me because also if you try too much

00:52:55.869 --> 00:52:59.849
about thinking about nothing this is worse you

00:52:59.849 --> 00:53:03.210
can do because then many thoughts show up you

00:53:03.210 --> 00:53:06.070
hear the crowd you're like who who's there You

00:53:06.070 --> 00:53:08.010
watch around, oh, he did this boulder, he did

00:53:08.010 --> 00:53:14.889
this boulder. So, yeah, usually what happens

00:53:14.889 --> 00:53:17.969
is that, yeah, what I do is I try to focus on

00:53:17.969 --> 00:53:22.449
my boulder. And if I can watch around also, not

00:53:22.449 --> 00:53:27.989
going to always impact me. And always go back

00:53:27.989 --> 00:53:30.530
to the boulder and try to think before you try

00:53:30.530 --> 00:53:34.619
of one thing. one thing to change yeah one let's

00:53:34.619 --> 00:53:37.320
say two if like the boulder is a slab it's long

00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.199
and you have on this move i'm gonna think of

00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:42.559
this and then i have this this i can switch this

00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.320
foothold is good i can think of the rest and

00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:48.079
then i i think of something else but yeah what

00:53:48.079 --> 00:53:50.559
do you think is like the worst case that has

00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.099
happened to you during a competition like mentally

00:53:53.099 --> 00:53:58.619
during a climb yeah i have example like in oculus

00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:03.739
in the first oculus in shanghai Mentally, it

00:54:03.739 --> 00:54:08.239
was really hard because obviously having a very

00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:11.400
high pressure round and a very important comp,

00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:16.780
this can be tough. And if you don't, let's say,

00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:19.260
treat it properly, then it's going to be really,

00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:24.420
really tough. And I remember this round was really

00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:28.909
hard. The boulders were super hard and ice. I

00:54:28.909 --> 00:54:31.369
basically scored like no points in the ball ring,

00:54:31.449 --> 00:54:33.610
almost like maybe five points. Or I did like,

00:54:33.650 --> 00:54:36.550
maybe I did one move in the whole round. Oh,

00:54:36.550 --> 00:54:40.949
wow. Yeah. And this, I mean, it's terrible when

00:54:40.949 --> 00:54:44.489
you just, you're trying to, the worst case, like

00:54:44.489 --> 00:54:46.809
you're trying hard to make it right, to do it

00:54:46.809 --> 00:54:50.849
good, to be serious, professional, and you just

00:54:50.849 --> 00:54:54.929
cannot do any move. Yeah. That's just the worst

00:54:54.929 --> 00:54:58.269
you can do. I mean, there's not much difference.

00:54:58.829 --> 00:55:01.030
It's just about like the boulders are a bit harder

00:55:01.030 --> 00:55:05.889
for you. But mentally, it's terrible. And then

00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:08.809
I remember I went to the lead wall and I did

00:55:08.809 --> 00:55:12.750
like zero points. I fell at the first draw. Yeah.

00:55:13.489 --> 00:55:16.489
Oh, is it that one? Yeah. It was like a foot

00:55:16.489 --> 00:55:18.170
slip or something like that? Yeah, something

00:55:18.170 --> 00:55:21.190
like this. Yeah. Well, so like how do you mentally

00:55:21.190 --> 00:55:24.929
bounce back from that? I thought there's... I

00:55:24.929 --> 00:55:27.860
was... After this, I was like still... It was

00:55:27.860 --> 00:55:30.320
like two spots for French. I was still the second

00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:35.199
one. I was like, if I do the same in the next

00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.280
comp, I'm going to be not inside. So you got

00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:42.699
to really make it better. And so, yeah, I just,

00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:45.460
I mean, I went back to training, tried to give

00:55:45.460 --> 00:55:49.320
100 % like before, rested a bit more before the

00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:53.340
comp. So I was really, really ready. And yeah,

00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:56.739
went a bit better. But also sometimes, I mean,

00:55:57.550 --> 00:56:00.469
the setting is also really important and pulling

00:56:00.469 --> 00:56:06.150
you down. Yeah. And you are a pretty stoic climber.

00:56:06.210 --> 00:56:08.530
I don't feel like you show a lot of emotion during

00:56:08.530 --> 00:56:11.550
competitions. Do you feel like you have a good

00:56:11.550 --> 00:56:15.110
mental game or do the nerves get to you? Sometimes

00:56:15.110 --> 00:56:19.110
yes, sometimes no. I wouldn't say I have always

00:56:19.110 --> 00:56:22.429
very good mental game. I'm not like really, really

00:56:22.429 --> 00:56:27.039
good. I'm not an example of mentally good. climber

00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:30.739
i'm not also an example of mentally bad i would

00:56:30.739 --> 00:56:34.260
say somewhere in the middle um i was about to

00:56:34.260 --> 00:56:36.539
ask who do you think is a mentally bad climber

00:56:36.539 --> 00:56:40.000
but uh mentally bad climber yeah i have my brother

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:44.219
oh really okay yeah what what is mentally bad

00:56:44.219 --> 00:56:51.440
there it's like um for me somebody's really really

00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:54.400
really strong and he just shows up to comps and

00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:59.159
suddenly he's a bit lazy and you know don't want

00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:03.760
to give which is like i i don't think he's like

00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:06.079
this kind of climber is actually lazy it's just

00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:08.420
like their brain tries to protect them from like

00:57:08.420 --> 00:57:11.539
the stress so suddenly they just get lazy to

00:57:11.539 --> 00:57:17.199
not get um how can i say not get disappointed

00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:23.260
oh okay so it's kind of like like when you Try

00:57:23.260 --> 00:57:26.719
to protect your ego by saying that it doesn't

00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:30.460
matter to you when maybe it does. Exactly. Yeah.

00:57:30.619 --> 00:57:34.639
This happens to, I think it happens to everybody,

00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:39.519
but the mentally strong climbers can remove this

00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:44.760
and try hard even thinking of this. And the ones

00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:48.719
that are a bit less strong mentally, they tend

00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:52.820
to get a bit more hits by this. Do you feel like

00:57:52.820 --> 00:57:54.500
that's something you've had to work on at all,

00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.840
or is it just something that you've pushed through?

00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:04.639
I did work on it before Olympics, but I always

00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:09.539
kind of could push through this, even if it was

00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:13.420
a bit prison sometimes, but I was able to still

00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.559
go for the comps. Sometimes it's not great, but

00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:21.050
almost all the comps I go, I... I can give

00:58:21.050 --> 00:58:24.030
% of what I have. It doesn't necessarily go really

00:58:24.030 --> 00:58:29.329
good, but it's only sometimes that it happens

00:58:29.329 --> 00:58:33.510
to me, this case. But I didn't really work on

00:58:33.510 --> 00:58:36.090
it that much, except for Olympics. I did work

00:58:36.090 --> 00:58:38.130
on it with somebody like a professional. Yeah,

00:58:38.190 --> 00:58:42.550
we had mental coaching during the year before

00:58:42.550 --> 00:58:46.469
Olympics. I had this, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so moving

00:58:46.469 --> 00:58:49.900
on into the... plans you have for the future

00:58:49.900 --> 00:58:52.340
what are your goals for the next upcoming season

00:58:52.340 --> 00:58:58.219
2026 2026 um i want to make it back to the ballering

00:58:58.219 --> 00:59:03.000
team yeah i have a chance to go back i'm in um

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:07.239
i'm i'm not far i'm like uh in the how do you

00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:11.340
call this uh there's the team who goes to world

00:59:11.340 --> 00:59:14.039
cups and then there's the next the next guy who's

00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:17.099
not going but he can go if If someone drops out

00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:19.199
or doesn't want to go. Yeah, I'm here. I'm close

00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:25.300
by. Okay. There's a solid chance I might do some

00:59:25.300 --> 00:59:28.679
World Cup still. I have to perform well. I go

00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:31.179
to the European Cup. And if I perform well here,

00:59:31.260 --> 00:59:33.679
there's a pretty good chance I go to the World

00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:37.940
Cup. Not in the first World Cup, but a bit later

00:59:37.940 --> 00:59:42.119
in the season. So this is the objective. Going

00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:46.570
back to the ballering World Cup. Yeah. uh to

00:59:46.570 --> 00:59:48.349
perform a little bit obviously i'm not going

00:59:48.349 --> 00:59:53.510
there just to show um and uh yeah i mean just

00:59:53.510 --> 00:59:56.409
basically world cup season and european championships

00:59:56.409 --> 00:59:59.610
it's a biggest con base here the european championship

00:59:59.610 --> 01:00:04.110
um i like to have a bit more stable results in

01:00:04.110 --> 01:00:10.949
a than i had before uh especially in lead i think

01:00:10.949 --> 01:00:16.159
i i i have the ability to to do a bit better

01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:18.820
in terms of results. I think I could be in finals

01:00:18.820 --> 01:00:22.940
more often. I think I could possibly get a bit

01:00:22.940 --> 01:00:26.500
more medals than I got last year. I would like

01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:31.920
to be a bit more stable in the results, yeah.

01:00:32.300 --> 01:00:37.340
And with you not being on the World Cup team

01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:40.340
for bouldering, is it because of your results

01:00:40.340 --> 01:00:42.780
from last season or do you guys have a selection?

01:00:43.670 --> 01:00:48.449
Both is we have selection process. It's a few

01:00:48.449 --> 01:00:50.929
people are pre selected from the last year results.

01:00:52.809 --> 01:00:56.210
I wasn't. And then if you're not, then you have

01:00:56.210 --> 01:01:00.070
to go through a French championships and selection

01:01:00.070 --> 01:01:03.530
comp. You have two comps. And yeah, you have

01:01:03.530 --> 01:01:05.989
it's like a mix those two and there's like a

01:01:05.989 --> 01:01:10.019
ranking and We had like three guys who were pre

01:01:10.019 --> 01:01:12.840
-selected this year. So as we have six pubs,

01:01:12.900 --> 01:01:16.039
the three first of the selection in French championships

01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:20.300
would go to World Cups. And I was in, so yeah.

01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:23.639
Okay, well, hopefully you can make it in this

01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:26.460
year later after European Championships. Yes.

01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:31.579
And then in terms of, I mean... not climbing

01:01:31.579 --> 01:01:34.139
obviously you spend a lot of time climbing even

01:01:34.139 --> 01:01:37.139
your whole family is like very climbing obsessed

01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:39.739
yes um is there anything you do outside of climbing

01:01:39.739 --> 01:01:43.980
or during your rest days yeah uh there are many

01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:48.019
things i really like uh i like spending time

01:01:48.019 --> 01:01:51.639
with my family also not necessarily about climbing

01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.099
i live in the same city with my like almost all

01:01:55.099 --> 01:02:01.030
my family from my mom's side lives here I play

01:02:01.030 --> 01:02:04.030
guitar also, classical guitar. I do this a lot.

01:02:05.110 --> 01:02:07.210
Probably when I have a rest day, I just do this

01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:13.349
all day. I try also to play before I go to training

01:02:13.349 --> 01:02:15.070
in the morning. What's the difference between

01:02:15.070 --> 01:02:19.949
classical guitar and other guitar? It's just

01:02:19.949 --> 01:02:26.150
a repertoire. And the guitar is a bit different.

01:02:29.079 --> 01:02:31.539
It's not a podcast about guitar, but you have

01:02:31.539 --> 01:02:34.840
like the... Oh, no scares, yeah. Some people

01:02:34.840 --> 01:02:37.400
like play electric. It's going to be all kind

01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:41.340
of electric kinds of... Like you can play rock,

01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:44.960
metal, jazz, stuff like this. You have acoustic,

01:02:45.059 --> 01:02:47.599
like playing songs or playing some blues or some

01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:50.199
country music. For example, we have like many,

01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:53.179
many stuff. And classical is just classical music

01:02:53.179 --> 01:02:59.340
and nylon strings. This classical guitar. Yeah.

01:02:59.579 --> 01:03:08.000
Metal. Okay. And the acoustic guitar is steel

01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:11.780
strings. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, Campbell Harrison

01:03:11.780 --> 01:03:15.139
had asked how your guitar slash music is going.

01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.739
Oh yeah, Campbell, I heard he was also playing.

01:03:19.019 --> 01:03:22.599
I saw a few videos of him. I think he plays acoustic.

01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:29.440
He's singing and playing. It's really going well,

01:03:29.460 --> 01:03:32.139
Campbell. Don't worry. You can check. Sometimes

01:03:32.139 --> 01:03:36.579
I post about it on my Instagram. I have a guitar

01:03:36.579 --> 01:03:40.119
account, actually. Oh, what? Yeah. I mean, I've

01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:42.900
only played guitar. I've tried it a little bit.

01:03:43.139 --> 01:03:47.739
Do the strings hurt your fingers again? No, it's

01:03:47.739 --> 01:03:53.519
okay. I mean, I think the classical guitar, as

01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:55.639
it has nylon strings, is a bit less aggressive.

01:03:56.440 --> 01:04:00.599
than the the acoustic but i mean yeah i'm fine

01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:03.360
i have like quite thick skin uh from climbing

01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:06.519
so it's okay i just don't i just try to play

01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:09.539
before because after training your fingers a

01:04:09.539 --> 01:04:14.000
little just like sure yeah shaking so you don't

01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:16.539
like try to avoid it before a comp or something

01:04:16.539 --> 01:04:19.599
like that no no before a comp is i i love to

01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:22.059
play before a comp because sometimes you have

01:04:22.059 --> 01:04:24.880
like this very long time you just don't have

01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:28.780
anything to do So, yeah, if I have a guitar,

01:04:28.940 --> 01:04:31.900
then I would just play. It's the best way to,

01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:36.800
yeah, just good pastime. And how long have you

01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:39.400
been doing that? I started playing when I was

01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.320
a kid, like maybe 10 years old. And then I played

01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.440
until I was like in the high school. Maybe I

01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:47.380
stopped playing for a few years when I was in

01:04:47.380 --> 01:04:49.320
high school because I didn't have time. And then

01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:51.550
after high school, I started playing again. Yeah.

01:04:51.630 --> 01:04:53.969
When I share out your information, I'll share

01:04:53.969 --> 01:04:58.469
out your Instagram as well. Sure. Sure. Okay.

01:04:58.530 --> 01:05:01.590
So let's move into some audience submitted questions.

01:05:01.750 --> 01:05:04.409
When your mom was climbing, the sport wasn't

01:05:04.409 --> 01:05:08.550
as professionalized yet. And so I guess now do

01:05:08.550 --> 01:05:11.869
you feel like there's a lot more avenue into

01:05:11.869 --> 01:05:13.630
making climbing a career? Like it's a lot more

01:05:13.630 --> 01:05:21.639
feasible? I mean, right now it depends. Also,

01:05:21.760 --> 01:05:24.420
like what country, which country you're from.

01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:29.860
Some countries make it a bit easier. In France,

01:05:29.940 --> 01:05:34.340
you still need to have like really, really good

01:05:34.340 --> 01:05:37.480
results in order to get to the point where you're

01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:40.460
professional. You don't have many professional

01:05:40.460 --> 01:05:45.199
climbers in France. No, no. I think, obviously,

01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:51.000
well, Mejdi, Orian, they're like... They're making

01:05:51.000 --> 01:05:59.280
more than enough money to survive. But I wouldn't

01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:07.539
say it's great. I can live off climbing. There's

01:06:07.539 --> 01:06:09.500
also one day you cannot do this your whole life

01:06:09.500 --> 01:06:14.980
until you're 60 years old. When I quit climbing,

01:06:15.019 --> 01:06:19.260
I'm going to have to work. uh i'm not making

01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:24.500
like much a lot of money i'm i'm living good

01:06:24.500 --> 01:06:29.159
with this also what happens a lot is that you

01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:31.019
when you have some sponsor and some help from

01:06:31.019 --> 01:06:34.980
the federation um you also don't really spend

01:06:34.980 --> 01:06:38.139
much money because a lot of things are like brought

01:06:38.139 --> 01:06:42.159
to you but you are like in my case i also don't

01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:45.300
make a crazy amount of money out of climbing

01:06:45.300 --> 01:06:48.420
yeah But I think in some countries you can do

01:06:48.420 --> 01:06:51.159
a bit more. I heard like Giovanni Plesci, he's

01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:53.119
staying at my place right now because he's training

01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:58.239
in Paris. And in Italy, they have a good support

01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:01.860
like from the police. Almost all of the athletes

01:07:01.860 --> 01:07:06.539
are policemen. So they have like a salary actually

01:07:06.539 --> 01:07:10.039
from the police. So you don't have that in France?

01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:13.719
We have that, but only a few people get it. We

01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:16.090
have from the army, yeah. I guess like going

01:07:16.090 --> 01:07:19.150
back to the future question, when you stop climbing,

01:07:19.469 --> 01:07:22.429
what do you think would be, like what work speaks

01:07:22.429 --> 01:07:24.690
to you after you're done competing? Was it like

01:07:24.690 --> 01:07:28.489
setting, coaching? Yeah, I have many things I'd

01:07:28.489 --> 01:07:32.530
like to do, but obviously I'm not going to have

01:07:32.530 --> 01:07:35.989
time for all of it. But like setting, I like

01:07:35.989 --> 01:07:38.869
it. I don't think I would make, I would work

01:07:38.869 --> 01:07:43.030
in this like in a gym. Maybe sometimes do some

01:07:43.030 --> 01:07:44.869
setting, but I don't think I would work into

01:07:44.869 --> 01:07:50.210
setting full -time. I probably won't like it.

01:07:50.429 --> 01:07:54.429
Coaching, why not? I also like it. Why not open

01:07:54.429 --> 01:07:56.610
a climbing gym? I would really like to have a

01:07:56.610 --> 01:08:00.130
climbing gym. I have also other stuff. I would

01:08:00.130 --> 01:08:06.610
like to play guitar more. If I have to step away

01:08:06.610 --> 01:08:10.699
from climbing for a while. I could. I could just

01:08:10.699 --> 01:08:13.599
play guitar for years. That's fine for me. I

01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:15.880
like also, let's say, carpentry. I could work

01:08:15.880 --> 01:08:19.220
into this. I like it. I went to school for carpentry.

01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:22.760
Oh, I had no idea. And I like it. I could work

01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:26.960
into this as well. But I hope it's not going

01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:31.159
to be like too soon. I'm only 25. I hope I still

01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:35.199
have like 5 to 10 years left. I would like, yeah.

01:08:35.500 --> 01:08:38.840
Maybe even longer, at least 42. Hopefully, yes.

01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:43.359
If my back pain doesn't get too bad. Oh, gosh.

01:08:43.539 --> 01:08:49.600
Yeah. Okay. Next one from Matt Gary 7. How to

01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:53.479
get finger strength. And then from what I had

01:08:53.479 --> 01:08:57.880
said earlier, he said at the end JTM. And I had

01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.479
to look up what that meant. I love you in French.

01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:03.239
Yeah. I thought that was cool. That was interesting.

01:09:03.520 --> 01:09:07.779
Who said that? Matt Gary underscore 7. Hello,

01:09:07.819 --> 01:09:12.920
Matt Curry. Yes. How to get finger strength?

01:09:15.220 --> 01:09:19.520
I think it also depends where you are in your

01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:22.619
climbing progress. If you're just starting, if

01:09:22.619 --> 01:09:26.060
you're in the first years of climbing, I wouldn't

01:09:26.060 --> 01:09:31.760
recommend training fingers too much or too hard,

01:09:31.779 --> 01:09:36.729
especially if you haven't climbed as a kid. your

01:09:36.729 --> 01:09:40.770
fingers are a bit like not very solid. So it's

01:09:40.770 --> 01:09:45.489
really easy to get injured. I think a good advice

01:09:45.489 --> 01:09:47.909
I could give is work with the physio because

01:09:47.909 --> 01:09:52.630
they know a lot more about the fingers and they

01:09:52.630 --> 01:09:55.510
know how to make it really progressive. Like

01:09:55.510 --> 01:09:58.750
let's say if you start to, you say, I want to

01:09:58.750 --> 01:10:00.729
train my fingers now and you start already to

01:10:00.729 --> 01:10:04.510
do like max hangs, stuff like this. If your fingers

01:10:04.510 --> 01:10:06.130
are not ready, you're going to get injured for

01:10:06.130 --> 01:10:09.829
sure. It's important to get really progressive.

01:10:10.470 --> 01:10:14.390
And if you already have like solid fingers stuff,

01:10:14.590 --> 01:10:17.449
if you're a good climber, been climbing for a

01:10:17.449 --> 01:10:23.489
while, what I do, I usually, let's say twice

01:10:23.489 --> 01:10:26.550
a week for a warmup at the end of my warmup.

01:10:26.590 --> 01:10:28.789
So I warm up my fingers properly. I'm like really

01:10:28.789 --> 01:10:33.289
warm. I do just two times. hanging one hand on

01:10:33.289 --> 01:10:37.630
a small crimp for about 10 seconds. Oh, that's

01:10:37.630 --> 01:10:40.390
pretty long. Yeah, well, you can do less and

01:10:40.390 --> 01:10:44.689
also on a bigger crimp. And just in the fingers,

01:10:44.789 --> 01:10:48.350
I do this for two times in a week, just two times.

01:10:48.390 --> 01:10:49.970
It's not really long. You know, it's the end

01:10:49.970 --> 01:10:53.350
of my warm -up. And for me, it makes my fingers

01:10:53.350 --> 01:10:58.510
solid and feeling good. And yeah, that's for

01:10:58.510 --> 01:11:01.170
me enough. Do you do handboard training? Only

01:11:01.170 --> 01:11:04.659
this. Okay. Yeah, I know a lot of pro climbers

01:11:04.659 --> 01:11:07.899
don't actually train much on the hangboard. I

01:11:07.899 --> 01:11:12.960
don't think many guys. Usually, we like to show

01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.720
off on the hangboard, but most of us just don't

01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:18.539
train on it. Really? From the climbing, we have

01:11:18.539 --> 01:11:21.399
strong fingers, so we can do hard stuff on the

01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:23.859
hangboard. We didn't really train the hangboard

01:11:23.859 --> 01:11:27.119
much. Okay. It's really good for a warm -up.

01:11:27.460 --> 01:11:31.960
I use it for a warm -up. It's good to feel. strong

01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:35.220
and and not to hurt yourself but for training

01:11:35.220 --> 01:11:39.659
um yeah i don't do much yet like i said just

01:11:39.659 --> 01:11:42.560
the two hangs like sometimes okay so most of

01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.279
your like finger strength actually just comes

01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:46.680
from climbing on the wall yes i feel like a lot

01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:49.520
of people are tricked by the uh the showing off

01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:53.010
videos Definitely. Like you see a lot of guys

01:11:53.010 --> 01:11:54.989
that are showing up, they're doing like some

01:11:54.989 --> 01:11:58.029
hangs on 10 millimeters. But this, if we post

01:11:58.029 --> 01:12:00.310
a video about this, we do it like, let's say

01:12:00.310 --> 01:12:03.210
once or twice a year. It's just so painful. You

01:12:03.210 --> 01:12:05.590
don't want to do it. It's just when you have

01:12:05.590 --> 01:12:07.430
like the good skin, you're feeling good. You're

01:12:07.430 --> 01:12:09.909
like, you say, okay, let's do it now. So I don't

01:12:09.909 --> 01:12:13.949
have to do it again. But I don't think most people

01:12:13.949 --> 01:12:17.789
do that much hangs on the small crimps. It's

01:12:17.789 --> 01:12:21.010
just really painful. Okay, so that's the dirty

01:12:21.010 --> 01:12:24.229
secrets of pro climbers on Instagram. Yeah, yeah.

01:12:24.529 --> 01:12:28.189
Don't listen to what they say. Okay, interesting.

01:12:28.430 --> 01:12:31.569
Good to know. I'm going to post that one. Okay,

01:12:31.649 --> 01:12:36.029
last question from Shining711. What's your go

01:12:36.029 --> 01:12:38.930
-to recovery routine? Oh, you know. Shining is

01:12:38.930 --> 01:12:44.829
a volunteer from China World Cups. Oh, yeah.

01:12:44.909 --> 01:12:49.390
Awesome. He accompanied me to the anti -doping

01:12:49.390 --> 01:12:54.550
test. He's the guy. So I know him. Shining. What's

01:12:54.550 --> 01:12:57.149
the question? Yeah. What's your go -to recovery

01:12:57.149 --> 01:12:59.770
routine after climbing? Any secret tips you swear

01:12:59.770 --> 01:13:03.810
by? Sleep. Sleep a lot. Sleep as early as you

01:13:03.810 --> 01:13:10.409
can is the best way to get fresh. How many hours

01:13:10.409 --> 01:13:16.710
do you get? Depends. sometimes for a while I

01:13:16.710 --> 01:13:20.770
can sleep early I can maintain it sometimes I

01:13:20.770 --> 01:13:24.670
can't I don't know like motivation or stuff I

01:13:24.670 --> 01:13:27.390
try if I'm really motivated I can go sleep at

01:13:27.390 --> 01:13:32.149
like 10 .30 and I wake up at like I don't know

01:13:32.149 --> 01:13:37.029
maybe 7 7, 8 if I'm not really that motivated

01:13:37.029 --> 01:13:39.670
I would go to sleep a bit later and wake up also

01:13:39.670 --> 01:13:43.890
a bit later I try to sleep Yeah, nine. Let's

01:13:43.890 --> 01:13:47.390
see. Nine hours. That's good. Nice. Sleeping

01:13:47.390 --> 01:13:52.149
is the most important. Eating as well right after

01:13:52.149 --> 01:13:55.090
the session if you have something to snack. As

01:13:55.090 --> 01:13:57.010
soon as you finish the session, you have to,

01:13:57.010 --> 01:14:01.949
like, right now after the session, it's really

01:14:01.949 --> 01:14:05.670
important to eat. Then you can do all sort of

01:14:05.670 --> 01:14:09.590
massage stuff like this if you have the time.

01:14:09.689 --> 01:14:13.460
It feels good. I don't know if it feels good.

01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:16.279
I don't know if it's really helping, but it feels

01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:19.800
good. Also, physio is nice, but I know that most

01:14:19.800 --> 01:14:23.140
people don't have access to physio that often,

01:14:23.220 --> 01:14:26.699
but I go to see my physio almost once a week.

01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:29.640
Every time I go, I do some massage and stuff.

01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.460
Yeah, in terms of nutrition, I'm just thinking

01:14:32.460 --> 01:14:35.979
about this now. I think in America, we've been...

01:14:36.300 --> 01:14:39.300
on a big, like everyone across the country has

01:14:39.300 --> 01:14:42.199
been big on protein snacks and now everything

01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.640
has protein in it. Is that global? Like, are

01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:50.340
you guys, is everything protein infused? I think

01:14:50.340 --> 01:14:53.420
I know some people also here in France who are

01:14:53.420 --> 01:14:55.960
like crazy about protein. Because we have protein

01:14:55.960 --> 01:14:58.960
everything, like protein popcorn, protein chips.

01:14:59.100 --> 01:15:02.720
Yeah. I hate those because they feel heavy. Okay.

01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:06.479
I don't like eating the... protein stuff but

01:15:06.479 --> 01:15:10.600
i know um for example when i stay with like let's

01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:13.899
say mejdi or samuel they're really careful about

01:15:13.899 --> 01:15:17.239
getting some protein which i think is important

01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:24.819
but if you it's like normally healthy you get

01:15:24.819 --> 01:15:27.619
the amount you need i mean i don't i'm not really

01:15:27.619 --> 01:15:31.340
careful about what i eat and i think it's okay

01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:35.800
uh just yeah to eat healthy try to eat a bit

01:15:35.800 --> 01:15:38.340
of everything some vegetables some meat some

01:15:38.340 --> 01:15:42.079
not yeah not too fat not not too sweet i mean

01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:47.340
obviously if you have good habits it's okay so

01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:49.439
you're not like pounding protein shakes like

01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:54.550
a body no no no i i but it's i think it's Mostly

01:15:54.550 --> 01:15:57.569
about the taste. I just don't like it, so I don't

01:15:57.569 --> 01:15:59.909
like it. I wouldn't say it's bad. I actually

01:15:59.909 --> 01:16:02.409
don't know. Good to know. Well, I think that's

01:16:02.409 --> 01:16:04.390
all the questions I had for today then. Thank

01:16:04.390 --> 01:16:06.229
you for joining. Want to let people know where

01:16:06.229 --> 01:16:08.510
they can find you and your guitar Instagram?

01:16:08.850 --> 01:16:11.029
Find me, Instagram, easy. My name is just Sam.

01:16:11.649 --> 01:16:16.489
That's my name. Do people really want to see

01:16:16.489 --> 01:16:18.489
the guitar account? I'm not sure. Of course,

01:16:18.510 --> 01:16:23.819
I think so. My name is Polonia Samich. Is there

01:16:23.819 --> 01:16:27.250
a reasoning behind that name? It just has been

01:16:27.250 --> 01:16:30.609
my name when I made it to the youth team and

01:16:30.609 --> 01:16:33.369
people just were calling me this way. Well, I

01:16:33.369 --> 01:16:35.670
will add that in the description below so people

01:16:35.670 --> 01:16:38.890
can find you there. And yeah, thank you again.

01:16:38.949 --> 01:16:40.689
It was amazing to talk to you. Yeah, thank you.

01:16:40.829 --> 01:16:43.369
Thank you so much for making it to the end of

01:16:43.369 --> 01:16:45.810
the podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe

01:16:45.810 --> 01:16:48.890
if you enjoyed. Otherwise, you are a super fake

01:16:48.890 --> 01:16:51.710
climber. If you're listening on a podcasting

01:16:51.710 --> 01:16:53.850
platform, I'd appreciate if you rate it five

01:16:53.850 --> 01:16:56.180
stars and... you can continue the discussion

01:16:56.180 --> 01:16:59.340
on the free competition climbing discord linked

01:16:59.340 --> 01:17:01.779
in the description. Thanks again for listening.