62: Meagan + C Lad, The Beladies

WEBVTT

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This is like the one time where somebody who

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is not an athlete can 100 % impact the athlete's

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performance. We are tied to them. A really long

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round. Like I just did collegiate nationals and

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like the qualifier round for lead was like eight,

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nine hours. had that happen where like climbers

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fall off on the first move but typically here

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they know like that's the end of their attempt

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or they'll just like look at you and ask is that

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it and typically we just verify yeah sorry like

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I have heard before that you know we do come

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up intimidating Welcome to another episode of

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the That's Not World Climbing podcast. I'm your

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host, Jinni, and I'm excited to introduce my

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guests for today, Megan Knecht and C Lad, also

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known as the Beladies. They are both level 5

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belayers in the USA who are also helping out

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with belay training videos for world climbing.

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In this episode, we'll debunk the myth that women

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can't belay men or heavier climbers. We'll learn

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about the problems with assisted braking device

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or ABD requirements in gyms. And of course, we'll

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learn how to get into high -level belaying and

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how they became sponsored belayers thanks to

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Triangle. I hope you enjoy this episode with

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the beladies. Please pardon this brief intermission,

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to sponsor this podcast. Now back to the show.

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How are you both doing? Do you guys have like

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any events coming up soon or any traveling that's

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going to be taking place? Yeah, actually, we

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have a competition together at the end of July.

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And that's going to be really exciting. It's

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a Pan American series event for world climbing.

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It'll be held in Salt Lake City. And I think

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that this is the first time that they've, like,

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done a Pan American series. I think so. Yeah,

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because they typically do, like, the European

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series and the, like, they do, like, an Asian

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series, too, I think. So it's kind of exciting.

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We'll see. Also excited to see the new wall.

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Yeah, we'll get to play on the new wall. Yeah.

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More panels. So we'll have a little bit more

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wall space to work with. So I know a couple of

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years ago at... Youth Nationals, they decided

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to squash, gosh, what was it, three routes on

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that narrow wall. So now we're going to have

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three panels to work with. So really excited

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across. It'll be bigger. Maybe we can belay without

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worrying about we might step off the edge of

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the wall. That was a possibility. It never happened,

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but you just had to be like extra aware that

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you didn't accidentally step backwards too far

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and then just fall off the platform. So do you

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guys have like insight into what the new Salt

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Lake venue looks like? I know there are some

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questions circulating around that. So, I mean,

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I think the last time that we were out there

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together collectively, we saw it and it was,

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you know, it's on a dirt lot. Inside, they had

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definitely improved the inside and the walls

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upstairs. They had definitely made that functional

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in terms of working out, you know, doing the

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bouldering sets. Outside is still, you know,

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just the wall, which you had seen at the old

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TC. So I think we'll be excited to see how it's

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changed now because neither of us have been out

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there. anytime recently so okay I think we'll

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have to see then um so just so we can get to

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know you guys both a little bit um when did you

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each start climbing I started climbing a long

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time ago I think it's been 20 years now I was

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actually living and working in Germany um and

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you know one of my co -workers was like hey let's

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go do something fun after work and he took me

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to a rock climbing gym when I was kind of hooked

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so um you know, moved back to the States and

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continued to keep up with that. And eventually,

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you know, got married, had kids and introduced

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my son to it. And that's kind of how I got my

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introduction to what is the competition climbing

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format and youth and belaying. And all of that

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whole thing that is now just like spun itself

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into like a whole different area that I never

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knew I would be so excited about. My belay journey

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started as my son started competitive climbing.

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His first rope season, I remember watching these

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young athletes tie in with a complete stranger.

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And have absolutely no say in terms of, you know,

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if I want to go here or whether, you know, if

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I tie in with that person. You know, it's just

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the blind trust they're putting into this stranger.

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And I know I am super picky about who belays

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me when I climb. And I just thought that that

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was something that I wanted to participate in

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to make sure that these young, young climbers

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were getting the best experience. So I started

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belaying at the local youth qualifying events.

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And I did that for a couple of years. I remember

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being interested in seeing the elite team go

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and perform at some of those comps and being

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like, how do I get involved in that? And I filled

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out a belay interest form and eventually was

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invited to be an aspirant at the North American

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Cup Series in Salt Lake City in 2024. And so

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if you come in as an aspirant, that means that

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you're not guaranteed to belay. you just kind

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of get to come in and watch and maybe get a catch

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and then if you do a good job maybe you get a

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couple more so that's kind of how it transpired

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and I remember watching the first couple rounds

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and then Ty saying all right go in that's actually

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kind of recent yeah it's very recent so I went

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and I did a catch and he came back he was like

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all right go do another one go do another one

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he's like all right you're in the rotation and

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then I belayed every round for that comp and

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then I went on to belay at collegiate nationals

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within a month later and then a month after that

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I assistant have belayed youth nationals and

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then uh yeah and so then I think pretty short

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after that I did just about every elite comp

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and that was rostered so and I just have never

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looked back it's been so fun it's and like I

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think we do you know we that That belay family

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we have, we love so much, you know. So it's so

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fun to be around. We feel like it's a belay reunion.

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So every single time we get together. So would

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you say you kind of started it because you wanted

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to belay your own son, maybe? You know what?

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No. So my son was a top roper. So he was just

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top rope. He was really young. This was back

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when it was youth, D, C, B, A, and junior. So

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he was just D. And I did belay. Not him. They

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don't know if you're a parent, you don't get

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to belay your own child climbing. They make sure

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that you don't do that. What's the reason behind

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that? It could be seen as an advantage for that

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climber. They might not be so concerned. They

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might mentally feel more comfortable to make

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that move because they know how you belay. So

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I just remember. Going to that first regional

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comp I was at, I only was a top rope belayer.

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But seeing what was happening on some of the

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sport climbs next to me and just being like,

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I think I could do better. I think I could do

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a better service to those climbers. So I started

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working at that. And here we are. I didn't know

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that you weren't allowed to belay your own kids.

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But yeah, now that I think about it, that makes

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sense. Yeah. I know we have a couple of belayers

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on the elite circuit and their child who also

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climbs on the elite circuit as well. And they

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will step out if they and the rotation would

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match up or they just won't belay that category

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just so that there's never a question. So that

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would be the worst thing to have happen. Okay.

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Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. How about you,

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Celad? Yeah, I think I had like... this totally

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roundabout way of getting into climbing so like

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growing up i was uh always into like girl scouts

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and doing stuff outside and in high school i

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was a girl scout camp counselor and they had

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a climbing wall there and i remember like our

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first training we had to belay the campers on

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this like rinky dink little like 20 foot wall

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that is not made by people who climb, but they

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like set everything up and they were like, well,

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everyone needs to know how to belay. And they

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did like a demonstration and then I got put on

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a Grigri and they were like, that looks great.

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So that was like my first introduction. And then

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I got into doing high ropes, like challenge course

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for those camps. And so. It was like super old

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school course, like built in the 90s. So like

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who the participant is always on belay, no matter

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what element they're on. So I guess I kind of

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the whole time when I'm belaying thinking like

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if my. climber participant whoever like comes

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off of this element or comes off of the wall

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like what are they going to fall into how do

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i need to adjust so then whenever i like actually

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got into climbing in college i worked at the

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urec at lsu and that was like my introduction

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to the actual climbing community i guess because

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there was a wall there um and i helped manage

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the wall i routes that a little bit um and then

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also did like challenge course stuff there um

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so I also like taught people how to belay and

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really enjoyed like I guess the more like management

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side of climbing and like I fell in love with

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the sport and I wanted to teach people and like

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help other people come into the sport as well

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so then like Towards the end of when I was in

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college, I signed up to volunteer for the World

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Games that was held in Birmingham in 2022, which

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is where I'm from. And I was home for the summer.

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So I was like, that'd be a cool thing to show

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up to. So I showed up and they needed extra judges,

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but no one there was trained to judge. And so

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it just came down to who knows this sport? And

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I was like, I do. And so I guess. I was pretty

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good at judging. And at the end of it, that's

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where I met Carolyn and I met Ty and Steve. But

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like at the end, they were like, hey, what are

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you doing next month? Do you want to show up

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to Youth Worlds in Dallas? Like we could really

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use some good help. And I was like. OK, it was

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like my first week of classes. I told all my

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professors I was like, you know what? Like nothing

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happens in the first week. I'm going to go to

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Dallas. So I went to Dallas and I like judged

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for Youth Worlds that whole week. And then they

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held a belay clinic at the end of that week.

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And I showed up and like Ty and Steve and everyone

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was like, wait, like you really understand this.

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We'd like to get you like into belaying more.

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And so. I actually ended up doing some more judging

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before I could belay because I was going to school

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in Louisiana and there's like nothing held out

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there. You have to go to Texas to do any of that.

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And when you're in college, you don't really

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have the time. But I ended up helping out with

00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:27.679
team trials in 2023 and the Paraclimbing Nationals

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was right after that and they needed extra belayers.

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And so I showed up and belayed and they were

00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.419
like, you're really good at this. We'd like to

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see you on lead. And then I did the North American

00:12:36.409 --> 00:12:39.710
Cup Series after that. So I was really just like

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looking for a way to stay involved in like, I

00:12:44.389 --> 00:12:46.789
guess like a specialty role, I guess, in climbing.

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Just like more than just going to your local

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gym. And this kind of like fell into my lap right

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as I was leaving my UREC role. So it's been a

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fun ride the past like... three years yeah it

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seems like you kind of got thrown into it super

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quickly um yeah yeah so two like pretty different

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paths to becoming i guess like a an elite belayer

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i was gonna say i think it's interesting because

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like you know we have a saying get in the van

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right and so like if uh you know steve or ty

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especially if they think that you know if you

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get invited to come to one of these events to

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just kind of be the aspirant and try it out and

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they think that you're good it's kind of like

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get in the van and buckle up because we're going

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to start getting you on the circuit more and

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it's like the coolest thing to have happen because

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it's like a whirlwind but you just get entrenched

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on this other side of the sport that's pretty

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cool to see so it sounds like it kind of become

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like the chosen one I guess almost yeah there's

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like a It's like a cultural thing, too. So, I

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mean, it's like if you know how to belay really

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well and you like fit the culture, it's like,

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yeah, I get in the man. Come on. The cult. The

00:13:57.789 --> 00:14:00.929
cult. Does seem a little bit that way. In a good

00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:03.649
way. Yeah. Well, one of the audience questions

00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:06.909
that came in was I think a lot of people are

00:14:06.909 --> 00:14:09.110
probably wondering this. What's the differentiator

00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:11.730
between an average belayer and like an elite

00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:14.190
belayer? It's like when they say that, oh, you

00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:16.490
like seem to do a better job belaying than other

00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:18.629
people. Well, I mean, I think it's important

00:14:18.629 --> 00:14:21.710
to have a differentiation for what we do within

00:14:21.710 --> 00:14:25.570
the competition realm when we belay versus how

00:14:25.570 --> 00:14:29.570
you belay every day when you're at the gym, right?

00:14:29.809 --> 00:14:32.889
I mean, there is just a different approach, a

00:14:32.889 --> 00:14:36.169
different way that we give rope the amount of

00:14:36.169 --> 00:14:38.049
slack that we have in the system all the way

00:14:38.049 --> 00:14:40.210
through to the catch. It really starts from the

00:14:40.210 --> 00:14:42.549
start of the engagement through the whole out

00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:46.279
to when we untie with the athlete. So, but I

00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.679
think back to your question, what makes a good

00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:53.240
belayer? It's really just understanding the refinement

00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:59.320
and those fine tunes, how to anticipate what

00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.899
your climber might be doing next without reacting

00:15:02.899 --> 00:15:07.500
right then, right? Like you do not want to say,

00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.480
I think they're going to slip and jerk on the

00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.320
rope. So I think it's like being calm, being

00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.440
competent, knowing that you have like this whole

00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:19.460
set of tools within your toolkit of how to belay

00:15:19.460 --> 00:15:24.519
that climber and being able to stay calm as you

00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:26.720
might see something happening on the wall that

00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.200
you're like, oh, this might not go well. And

00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:34.539
then just execute a catch flawlessly, lower them,

00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.899
put them onto the ground, untie and go back and

00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:40.179
do another one. And like in the belay program,

00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.320
the three pillars are safety, consistency and

00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.679
professionalism. So it all goes back to just

00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.960
like having a good understanding of those three

00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.759
pillars in every single thing that you do and

00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:55.799
in every competition that you do. So like the

00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:59.740
belay that I'm giving to someone at a youth qualifier

00:15:59.740 --> 00:16:02.080
event and the belay that I'm giving to someone

00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:05.720
at team trials is going to be the same exact

00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:09.100
belay. uh even from the beginning so it's like

00:16:09.100 --> 00:16:12.480
safety that's not just are you doing your safety

00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.639
checks in the beginning that's also are you aware

00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:17.639
of where the climber is on the wall like if they

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.919
fall right now How much slack do I have in the

00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:22.960
system? Are they going to hit this volume? Where

00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.240
am I going to lower them to? And then it's like

00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:28.840
consistency. Can you give essentially the same

00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:33.039
belay every single time, even through a really

00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.960
long round? Like I just did collegiate nationals

00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.539
and like the qualifier round for lead was like

00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:44.710
eight. nine hours like can you do this for hours

00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:48.649
on end and then like professionalism it's you

00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:51.789
need to treat every single climber the same and

00:16:51.789 --> 00:16:54.289
then you also that also like goes towards your

00:16:54.289 --> 00:16:57.330
interactions with the other belayers and then

00:16:57.330 --> 00:17:00.490
like carrying yourself professionally like if

00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.470
you know that like you're starting to get tired

00:17:03.470 --> 00:17:06.779
and you need a break like you need to be able

00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:10.059
to say that because there's a difference between

00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:12.079
like trying to push through and your belays get

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:14.420
worse and worse. And then just like knowing yourself

00:17:14.420 --> 00:17:16.880
and knowing, hey, I could sit down for 15 minutes

00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.960
and come back and belay way better than if I

00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.759
just tried to push through. So why not just like

00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.519
split up the eight hours? So there's like some

00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:27.599
people doing like four the first half and then

00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:30.000
some the second half. I think typically when

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.619
we deploy for a larger event, you want, you're

00:17:33.619 --> 00:17:36.779
selecting. that group of belayers that you think

00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:39.200
is going to best serve that event. And so you're

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.960
also selecting a group of belayers that you know

00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:46.920
can work at a longer duration. So to the point

00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:50.480
where we always look for consistency, you want

00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.940
those same belayers to be in the rotation, delivering

00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:58.039
that same experience every time to each athlete.

00:17:58.539 --> 00:18:00.859
Now, can they come out and say, I need a break?

00:18:01.339 --> 00:18:03.660
Absolutely. We always offer that. That's always

00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:05.920
something that we do. We, you know, 100 % do

00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:12.220
that. But it is optimal to retain that core group.

00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:14.960
yeah and for long rounds like that we have certain

00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.359
ways of rotating belayers to make it easier on

00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.440
the belayer so sometimes that might mean like

00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.480
for that qualification route there are four routes

00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:26.279
running at the same time so you kind of have

00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.599
some built -in breaks every now and then just

00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:30.619
because setters will come out and do a brush

00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:33.680
break and so that gives you like 10 minutes every

00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.339
now and then but um we'll typically do a couple

00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:39.140
different types of rotations so you might have

00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:42.579
two belayers for one route and so you just do

00:18:42.579 --> 00:18:44.900
every other climber or we'll do something like

00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:49.099
three layers for two routes so you'll like there

00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:51.059
will be two that are on and then the first climber

00:18:51.059 --> 00:18:53.220
that comes down that third player will step into

00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:55.400
that route and then that's kind of like the rotation

00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:59.000
for that um so yeah there's ways to manage it

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:00.920
like you're not just rotate you're not just like

00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.319
belaying every single climber like one after

00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:06.500
the other because i think that competition had

00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:12.259
like 110 athletes per category so like over 200

00:19:12.259 --> 00:19:16.500
total um so it would be brutal to try to belay

00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:20.240
all 100 but what you said earlier about keeping

00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.279
like the same belayers for the whole round is

00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.480
it because it could somehow like affect people's

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.559
experiences on the wall like does who your belayer

00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:33.859
is affect the climber in some way it shouldn't

00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:38.279
it's really it really it shouldn't um i think

00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.480
just in terms of you know you get into a rhythm

00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.220
right and so you get into a flow and as you get

00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.079
like you know so if you have a team of three

00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:49.940
working on two routes right like it would call

00:19:49.940 --> 00:19:53.559
it a three two that rotation that they get going

00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:57.099
and the understanding of where the cruxes are

00:19:57.099 --> 00:19:59.640
within the route, understanding the movements,

00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:03.740
it starts to refine, you know, the process, how

00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:06.720
they are giving the slack out, how they are getting

00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.359
ready to catch. And also it's just like, everybody

00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.859
kind of just like knows and just is able to just

00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:13.420
kind of like read and understand, okay, now I

00:20:13.420 --> 00:20:15.900
can start to tie and step in here. Oh, I know

00:20:15.900 --> 00:20:17.599
that they're going to do this or where I'm in.

00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:21.079
It just. it's not necessarily for the advantage

00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.019
of, you know, the climber, it's for the advantage

00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:26.319
of the competition, the experience on the whole.

00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:29.500
Yeah, that makes sense. And then before we get

00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:31.900
too deep into things, I am just curious, like,

00:20:31.940 --> 00:20:35.160
it is still a volunteer position, right? So like,

00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:37.599
what do you guys do for work that allows the

00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.160
flexibility to go around all these places and

00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:44.740
do these events? I'm a civil engineer. And actually,

00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.390
like, my job and my project manager are like

00:20:48.390 --> 00:20:51.950
really supportive of this um and so I have enough

00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:55.450
PTO that it'll cover the few events that I do

00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:57.470
um and a lot of the events are on the weekends

00:20:57.470 --> 00:20:59.990
so it really isn't like that much time that you're

00:20:59.990 --> 00:21:04.609
taking off for but um yeah it's it's hard I wish

00:21:04.609 --> 00:21:08.819
that we could have a little more money available

00:21:08.819 --> 00:21:12.160
to help belayers but if you're a line belayer

00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.960
you do get like a small stipend and then the

00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:19.000
head belayer gets their like entire flight and

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:21.720
everything covered and we also typically have

00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.900
like a team airbnb that's covered so i treat

00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:29.119
it like a cheap vacation essentially um and that's

00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.920
like my way of thinking about it And then I am

00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.299
a project manager in land development and home

00:21:35.299 --> 00:21:40.500
building. So yes, I love my cheap vacations where

00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.319
we get to go and just, I mean, the nice thing

00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.720
is, is, I mean, it does kind of feel like a vacation

00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.980
because you go there and you have one job. There's

00:21:48.980 --> 00:21:51.099
just one thing we're focusing on and that is

00:21:51.099 --> 00:21:54.000
belaying. And there is something that's very

00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.559
Zen about that, right? You just kind of go in

00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.420
there and you just have like one sole focus.

00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.740
And they kind of feel like family reunions at

00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:05.599
the same time too. They do. Yeah. We get excited

00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.839
to see each other. It's so exciting. We're all

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.279
like, a lot of us are like best friends and we

00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:14.920
talk to each other all the time. And I think

00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:20.299
of the Belayers like a big family. And I'm really

00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:22.819
close to a lot of people. Like Ty Hardaway officiated

00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:25.339
my wedding. Like a lot of the Belayers came.

00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.140
It's just like stuff like that. It's not just

00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:30.980
about the bullying itself. Like we also have

00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:33.059
this like really cool culture that's been really

00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.259
fun to like get involved with. We bullied the

00:22:35.259 --> 00:22:38.059
heck out of your reception. Right. They really

00:22:38.059 --> 00:22:41.720
did. Bullies brought the party. Yeah. Did. Yeah.

00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.039
I mean, it sounds like a nice fun party staying

00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:46.759
in the same Airbnb and hang out. So that seems

00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:49.420
like a good time. Yeah. So, yeah. How do you

00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:52.099
then like get into bullying at a higher level?

00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.039
I mean, I guess. Your experience may have been

00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.039
like a little bit less structured. It seems like

00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.640
there's more of a program now. I can jump on

00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.960
this one and like see that I think expand and

00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:05.579
grow upon it since, you know, you definitely,

00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:08.240
you know, see that helps run the USA Belay program

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:11.559
and just kind of helps orchestrate that. So I

00:23:11.559 --> 00:23:14.180
think, you know, to start out, the best way is

00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:15.940
to be volunteering. And that's like within the

00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:20.660
local youth qualification events. going in and

00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:22.660
volunteering, you know, top rope, starting out

00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:25.240
with top rope. I think everybody kind of looks

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.359
at top rope as like, oh, you know, you're just

00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.900
taking on slack. Top rope is like, you know,

00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:32.000
there's a technique. It takes a lot to do that

00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.859
correctly. And so I think, you know, getting

00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:37.119
in there and getting your feet wet, understanding

00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:39.920
what needs to happen, understanding the rhythm,

00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:43.039
how a competition works, and then, you know,

00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:45.119
slowly getting the experience and moving over

00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:50.710
to lead. And then, you know, within... you will

00:23:50.710 --> 00:23:55.230
see likely within your region that there will

00:23:55.230 --> 00:23:58.789
be people who might be rostered within the USA

00:23:58.789 --> 00:24:02.390
Blay program and they can, you know, help endorse

00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:06.809
you or give you feedback as you move up the way

00:24:06.809 --> 00:24:10.809
and you get more experience and get better. And

00:24:10.809 --> 00:24:13.890
that is kind of, as you get endorsements, that's

00:24:13.890 --> 00:24:15.630
how you start working your way in from the youth

00:24:15.630 --> 00:24:19.130
qualifications to the regionals. to the divisionals

00:24:19.130 --> 00:24:21.910
and that it's like right at that divisional level,

00:24:22.049 --> 00:24:24.630
that's kind of where divisional regional level,

00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:26.430
that's kind of where like the breaking point

00:24:26.430 --> 00:24:29.069
is where you might be then brought up into like

00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:33.710
the elite level. So I see that. What else would

00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:35.930
you add to that? Yeah. The best place to get

00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:40.690
started is at the qualifying event level. So

00:24:40.690 --> 00:24:43.730
right now we're at the end of the youth season,

00:24:43.789 --> 00:24:47.750
like youth nationals is in about a week. But

00:24:47.750 --> 00:24:51.069
it'll start back again in the fall and there

00:24:51.069 --> 00:24:53.190
will be qualifying events in the fall and in

00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:59.960
the spring. So my best advice is to. First, like

00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.019
find an event that's near you, figure out what

00:25:03.019 --> 00:25:05.240
region that you're in, and then you can start

00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:07.740
looking at the belay resources that are available

00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:11.440
to you. So if you go onto USA Climbing's website

00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.559
and then go to the community tab, go to belayers.

00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:16.980
That has all of the info for the belay program.

00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:20.799
It gives you all of the info on the levels. It

00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:23.599
also tells you what the endorsement process is.

00:25:23.660 --> 00:25:26.420
Like right now, it's just a Google form. And

00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:30.220
that's managed by our national coordinator, Toby

00:25:30.220 --> 00:25:32.380
Monroe. And then I'm the assistant national coordinator.

00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.539
So we kind of handle that right now, which as

00:25:35.539 --> 00:25:39.880
time has gone on, we do have more and more endorsements,

00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.259
which has been really cool to see. But that does

00:25:42.259 --> 00:25:44.819
mean that like now it takes us a little bit longer

00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:47.000
to get through everything. So be very patient

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.660
with us. But you can apply for an endorsement

00:25:50.660 --> 00:25:55.559
once you've either gone to a clinic. which if

00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.460
you have a higher level Blair in your region,

00:25:57.619 --> 00:26:00.259
they may or may not hold a clinic. I know for

00:26:00.259 --> 00:26:03.259
next season, I'm trying to hold two in Texas,

00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:06.220
one in Houston, one in Dallas. So if you're in

00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:08.779
Texas, you can look out for that. We're trying

00:26:08.779 --> 00:26:11.359
to organize a clinic in Salt Lake with that Pan

00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.599
Am event. I don't know at this point if that's

00:26:14.599 --> 00:26:17.839
going to pan out, but you can keep an eye on

00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:21.480
the like at USA Belay Instagram. We'll be posting

00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:24.849
about that on there. If I do make that work.

00:26:26.170 --> 00:26:28.509
So a clinic is a good place to start. Qualifying

00:26:28.509 --> 00:26:31.390
events are a good place to start. And something

00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:34.930
that Ty says a lot is reps make reps. So reputation

00:26:34.930 --> 00:26:38.630
makes your reputation. If you start showing up

00:26:38.630 --> 00:26:41.390
to QEs and you do a really good job, then people

00:26:41.390 --> 00:26:43.329
are going to notice. The athletes are going to

00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:45.910
notice. And whenever they sit down in your chair

00:26:45.910 --> 00:26:48.490
and they see that you're their belayer, you can

00:26:48.490 --> 00:26:51.890
see them. look relieved because they know that

00:26:51.890 --> 00:26:53.430
they've seen you belay they know that you're

00:26:53.430 --> 00:26:55.210
going to keep them safe and you're going to do

00:26:55.210 --> 00:26:57.769
a really good job so like build a rapport with

00:26:57.769 --> 00:27:00.190
your local scene and then you can build it up

00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:01.869
from there you can go to regionals you can go

00:27:01.869 --> 00:27:05.230
to divisionals and then eventually you can go

00:27:05.230 --> 00:27:07.990
to nationals but if you need help finding any

00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:11.200
resources or like have any questions belaying

00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.740
at usaclimbing .org is a really good place to

00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:18.720
start. We have some super high belayers who just

00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:21.440
reached out to that email and were like, hey,

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.799
I'd like to get into belaying. Here's some videos.

00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:28.579
You'll get a ton of feedback back. And then they

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:32.680
end up being some of our best. We have one that

00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.390
Megan's been working with. And I believe Alex

00:27:36.390 --> 00:27:39.170
Koo is one of those. And he's the head belayer

00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:41.690
for this pandemic event coming up. So that's

00:27:41.690 --> 00:27:44.250
a pretty good way to get started too. Even like

00:27:44.250 --> 00:27:48.029
going further beyond just like USA belay, I heard

00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:50.170
that you guys were working on like belay training

00:27:50.170 --> 00:27:54.029
videos for world climbing. What are like the

00:27:54.029 --> 00:27:56.869
belay standards for world climbing? So that's

00:27:56.869 --> 00:27:59.769
something that Ty's working on right now. We

00:27:59.769 --> 00:28:02.950
filmed some videos with Matt Groom. back last

00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:06.809
year and i believe those are almost done but

00:28:06.809 --> 00:28:08.990
i think that i'm not sure if they'll be public

00:28:08.990 --> 00:28:11.789
or not i think they'll mostly just be like to

00:28:11.789 --> 00:28:14.930
send to the federations to send to their blairs

00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:18.950
to try to increase like safety consistency professionalism

00:28:18.950 --> 00:28:21.970
across the world cup scene because the u .s is

00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:24.829
the only federation that has a blair program

00:28:24.829 --> 00:28:28.630
like we do um but I think world climbing has

00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:32.170
noticed how effective our program has been. And

00:28:32.170 --> 00:28:34.950
so Ty is working with them to try to formalize

00:28:34.950 --> 00:28:36.789
something for world climbing. But it's really

00:28:36.789 --> 00:28:38.910
difficult just because you have all the different

00:28:38.910 --> 00:28:41.170
federations involved. What are like some of the

00:28:41.170 --> 00:28:43.869
differences between what we do in the U .S. versus

00:28:43.869 --> 00:28:46.410
like... If you've like seen what other players

00:28:46.410 --> 00:28:49.309
do in the World Cup scene. I mean, spotting.

00:28:49.450 --> 00:28:52.589
Yeah, spotting. I mean, even just like, you know,

00:28:52.609 --> 00:28:55.089
when we come out and go, you know, the soft drape,

00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:57.750
right? Just like how we drape the rope off to

00:28:57.750 --> 00:29:00.829
the side and we hold it out of the climber's

00:29:00.829 --> 00:29:04.569
way. Sometimes you will see, you know, other

00:29:04.569 --> 00:29:06.289
federations, other big climbings, they'll just

00:29:06.289 --> 00:29:07.750
have like this rope that's just kind of like

00:29:07.750 --> 00:29:10.509
dragging on the ground. We will consistently,

00:29:10.589 --> 00:29:12.950
as belayers before a round, we will sit there

00:29:12.950 --> 00:29:15.769
and we'll look at the route and we will discuss

00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:17.809
where do we think they're going to make their

00:29:17.809 --> 00:29:19.890
first couple of clips? What makes the most sense

00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:22.769
for us to start on, you know, consistently? Are

00:29:22.769 --> 00:29:24.869
we going to start here and then after the second

00:29:24.869 --> 00:29:27.009
clip, are we going to flip over? You know, so

00:29:27.009 --> 00:29:30.400
we talk about that. Every athlete has the same

00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:32.680
experience. And also it's that we are trying

00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.619
to manage the rope and keep it out of their way

00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:38.900
so they can climb unimpeded and it is just there

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:42.519
for them to go. Right. And so I think those are

00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:44.619
some things that kind of like set us apart, how

00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:47.000
we like look at it and approach that. Another

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.680
thing is that like on the World Cup scene, you'll

00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.359
often see men belaying men and women belaying

00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:58.660
women or men also belaying the women. If you

00:29:58.660 --> 00:30:01.960
look at a lot of the U .S. comps, you'll see

00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:06.480
like most of the time it's like Megan and I or

00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.319
another woman on the men. And then sometimes

00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:13.039
we'll have male belayers belaying women. So we

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:17.519
know that if you're super highly skilled, that

00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.559
like the weight difference is not necessarily

00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:24.920
that big of a problem. But like. A lot of people

00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:26.519
still don't know that. A lot of people don't

00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.700
realize that like women can belay the men. And

00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:32.119
so we're trying to fight that little misconception.

00:30:32.779 --> 00:30:35.440
I mean, have you like felt that ever being a

00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:38.759
thing? I really didn't ever know of like weight

00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.460
difference being an issue because I think, I

00:30:42.460 --> 00:30:44.359
mean, when I was starting, even if that was something

00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.339
you were concerned about, they were like, oh,

00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:48.440
we have these like sandbags that you could use,

00:30:48.619 --> 00:30:51.359
which obviously you guys are not using. But yeah,

00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:53.200
I just didn't know it was such like a big concern.

00:30:53.690 --> 00:30:56.450
I haven't felt that here. And I will say, I think

00:30:56.450 --> 00:30:58.269
that just speaks to like the program and just

00:30:58.269 --> 00:31:01.190
kind of like how we've gone and approached just,

00:31:01.329 --> 00:31:04.970
you know, rope dynamics on how we choose to catch,

00:31:05.049 --> 00:31:09.730
you know, I mean, we start lowering as the fall

00:31:09.730 --> 00:31:11.769
is happening. So it's arresting the momentum.

00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:13.970
So it softens and it's absorbing some of the

00:31:13.970 --> 00:31:15.990
energy. And so as you're dynamically catching

00:31:15.990 --> 00:31:18.529
them, you know, we are able to stay on the ground

00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:24.759
as a lighter layer. I have never felt. um in

00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:28.880
a position or been told that you know you're

00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.319
hey little lady you can't belay the boys you

00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.579
know i've never been i've never been told that

00:31:34.579 --> 00:31:38.579
so i think i think you know sila and i have talked

00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.180
about this we came close this year you know our

00:31:41.180 --> 00:31:45.599
ultimate dream is a team of beladies It's never

00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.680
been done before. And hopefully it'll be next

00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:51.920
season. I'm tired of saying next season. I think

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:54.920
I've said that in the past three seasons. But

00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.740
I really want it to happen. And I think that

00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:02.380
we can make it happen. But yeah, I really don't

00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:06.500
see that on the national scene. I see it a lot

00:32:06.500 --> 00:32:11.259
here in Texas. I do have some. smaller female

00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:15.059
belayers that are here who do feel a little anxious

00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:20.000
about belaying the like older boys categories

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:23.960
and so I try to be as encouraging as I can, but

00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:26.400
like a reality that we have here in Texas is

00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.000
that a lot of our competitions are assisted braking

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.200
device mandated. So you have to use a Grigri,

00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:37.599
a Revo, something like that instead of using

00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:41.039
an ATC. So like these techniques are a lot harder

00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.099
to execute when you're on an assisted braking

00:32:43.099 --> 00:32:47.000
device. So in those situations, I do understand,

00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:51.799
but just some of these belayers. are a little

00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.660
in their head about that um so like my goal is

00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:58.460
to try to get them some extra practice with a

00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:02.720
heavier climber on an atc um because i know for

00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.000
a lot of belayers it's like you could be really

00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.259
good but you might be thinking too hard about

00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:10.759
it you might be like over analyzing it and you

00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:14.700
just need to get some more reps in I also want

00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:18.279
to ask about like the ATC stuff, but you had

00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:20.339
also mentioned really quickly about spotting

00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:23.579
was like a difference in world climbing. What's

00:33:23.579 --> 00:33:25.559
the deal with that? Well, I mean, we don't need

00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:27.500
to like, you know, you're spotting like, you

00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:30.420
know, we don't need two injuries. Right. So,

00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:32.640
you know, if you're the Blair and you're spotting,

00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:35.140
if your hands are up like this, that means you

00:33:35.140 --> 00:33:38.960
also don't have the rope ready to get slack or

00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:41.819
you're not also not able to hold that out of

00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:44.980
the climber's way. So that's, you know, number

00:33:44.980 --> 00:33:48.180
one. But number two, if for some reason before

00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:50.480
they are able to make their clip, they fall and

00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.480
you try to catch them like they could fall on

00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:53.940
you. And, you know, like we've said, some of

00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:56.519
these climbers are, you know, they are specimens

00:33:56.519 --> 00:33:58.579
and they are bigger and they could fall and they

00:33:58.579 --> 00:34:02.039
could maybe hurt themselves from falling on you.

00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:06.559
Plus, you could get hurt. So, you know, it doesn't

00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.679
always look great. yeah and if you're falling

00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.099
before the first clip it's it's like a bouldering

00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:13.920
fall like there's no need to like really be spotting

00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:16.579
like especially on the world cup level it's like

00:34:16.579 --> 00:34:20.960
why are you spotting our best athletes okay good

00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:24.159
to know i did notice like during the most recent

00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:26.679
lead finals that some people do spot in the beginning

00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:31.829
um but okay yeah back to the automated wait Assisted

00:34:31.829 --> 00:34:34.050
braking devices? Yes, assisted brake devices.

00:34:34.610 --> 00:34:38.050
I don't climb that often. So I know that a lot

00:34:38.050 --> 00:34:40.309
of gyms, and you said in Texas as well, they

00:34:40.309 --> 00:34:43.769
have a mandate for using those in the gyms. I

00:34:43.769 --> 00:34:45.690
guess, why does that create an issue? Please

00:34:45.690 --> 00:34:48.050
excuse this brief intermission, but if you're

00:34:48.050 --> 00:34:50.150
interested in ad -free episodes and would like

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to unlock over four hours of deleted scenes,

00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:54.530
including one where they talk about the most

00:34:54.530 --> 00:34:57.449
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00:34:57.449 --> 00:35:00.409
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-monetarily, liking, commenting, and sharing

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helps a great deal as well. Back to the show.

00:35:24.190 --> 00:35:28.070
SoCal does it too, and a lot of gyms. So, I mean,

00:35:28.110 --> 00:35:32.530
I think there is a false sense of security. So,

00:35:32.570 --> 00:35:34.369
I mean, I think, let me just take a step back.

00:35:35.210 --> 00:35:37.730
If you are learning to climb and you are being

00:35:37.730 --> 00:35:40.230
taught on an assisted braking device, I think

00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:42.710
there is a false sense of security that this

00:35:42.710 --> 00:35:45.250
device is going to be doing the work for you,

00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:48.710
right? That it will catch somebody. And that

00:35:48.710 --> 00:35:54.010
teaches bad habits. That teaches you to be unattentive.

00:35:54.030 --> 00:35:58.190
You might let go with your brake hand. It's not

00:35:58.190 --> 00:36:01.630
ideal for if you were to transition or if you

00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:06.019
were to start with. an ATC or a tube device where

00:36:06.019 --> 00:36:10.039
you have to, right off the bat, use the correct

00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.559
technique. Never let go with your brake hand.

00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:14.840
You're always paying attention to your climber.

00:36:15.099 --> 00:36:21.440
So, but the reason a lot of the gyms want to

00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:27.679
use ABDs is because, you know, it is easier.

00:36:28.409 --> 00:36:31.389
to have a lot of people start with that. And

00:36:31.389 --> 00:36:33.250
I think there's also probably, I think there's

00:36:33.250 --> 00:36:36.349
an insurance issue with that. So. Yeah, I think

00:36:36.349 --> 00:36:39.929
that's right. It's just like miseducation too.

00:36:40.210 --> 00:36:45.789
I think like people who start on an ATC versus

00:36:45.789 --> 00:36:50.190
start on a Grigri, well, obviously they like

00:36:50.190 --> 00:36:52.769
wouldn't have any bad habits to break, but it's.

00:36:53.369 --> 00:36:55.789
much easier for those kinds of people to pick

00:36:55.789 --> 00:36:59.650
up this competition belaying style than it would

00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:02.010
be for someone who's like belayed on a grigri

00:37:02.010 --> 00:37:03.789
the entire time that they've been climbing and

00:37:03.789 --> 00:37:05.969
you notice that like they get bad habits like

00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:09.389
sometimes grigri belayers for lead will like

00:37:09.389 --> 00:37:12.929
hold the cam down as they feed slack and then

00:37:12.929 --> 00:37:14.949
you notice them doing something similar when

00:37:14.949 --> 00:37:17.070
they switch over to an atc it's like why is your

00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.710
hand so close open up your hands um so it's like

00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.219
I think Noah said something like this. It's the

00:37:24.219 --> 00:37:26.460
difference between like driving a manual and

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:29.760
an automatic car and like knowing how to do.

00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:32.840
You should really know how to do both of them.

00:37:33.219 --> 00:37:36.780
Do you guys know how to drive manual cars? Yes.

00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:44.400
I actually don't. I do and I prefer it. And then

00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:48.389
another thing that I saw. most recently in world

00:37:48.389 --> 00:37:50.489
climbing was some of them are wearing belay glasses

00:37:50.489 --> 00:37:53.510
which i actually hadn't seen before so yeah what

00:37:53.510 --> 00:37:58.670
are your thoughts there so we prefer and we discourage

00:37:58.670 --> 00:38:01.730
use using belay glasses within especially within

00:38:01.730 --> 00:38:04.150
the elite competition but just like within competitions

00:38:04.150 --> 00:38:07.570
in general because what you're doing is um you

00:38:07.570 --> 00:38:12.570
are limiting your field of visibility to here

00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:15.889
When in reality, as you are a competition bling,

00:38:15.909 --> 00:38:19.750
you need to be able to see your climber. You

00:38:19.750 --> 00:38:21.510
need to be able to see what's going on with your

00:38:21.510 --> 00:38:23.630
rope. You need to be able to see what might be

00:38:23.630 --> 00:38:25.949
going on with the route over here and the route

00:38:25.949 --> 00:38:29.929
over here. So you are managing the field of play

00:38:29.929 --> 00:38:33.570
in the periphery while your focus is 100 % on

00:38:33.570 --> 00:38:35.690
your climber. And when you have the belay glasses

00:38:35.690 --> 00:38:39.750
on, you cannot have acceptable vision to the

00:38:39.750 --> 00:38:41.869
field of play around you. We call them judging

00:38:41.869 --> 00:38:44.199
glasses. Yes, we do call them judging glasses.

00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.119
What does that mean? A lot of the times the judges

00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.760
wear them so they don't have to look up the whole

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:52.659
round. Is it acceptable for judges? It's totally

00:38:52.659 --> 00:38:54.599
acceptable. Well, their whole focus needs to

00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.320
be on the climber. So in that instance, it does

00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:00.820
make sense for competition judges to have them.

00:39:01.099 --> 00:39:03.099
But yeah, not for belayers. You kind of need

00:39:03.099 --> 00:39:05.239
to be aware of the entire field of play, not

00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.440
just the climber. And then Ty had like kind of

00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:10.559
went into this on his episode. But do you guys

00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:13.500
do like exercises or like stretching in order

00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:16.099
to get your neck in shape for always looking

00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:20.210
up? I do stretch. I'm old. So we stretch. I mean,

00:39:20.250 --> 00:39:24.050
I, I do like, I mean, I do stretches for my neck.

00:39:24.050 --> 00:39:26.150
Like I'll do it for my shoulders because I mean,

00:39:26.170 --> 00:39:28.489
I think something that we try to exemplify, like,

00:39:28.550 --> 00:39:30.250
especially on the elite series, it's like, you

00:39:30.250 --> 00:39:31.309
know, a lot of times you'll have your climbers

00:39:31.309 --> 00:39:33.329
up there on the wall and they'll find a great

00:39:33.329 --> 00:39:35.250
rest position and they just sit there and they

00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:40.750
hang out and they shake out. And we like to be

00:39:40.750 --> 00:39:45.389
still when it happens. Very still, not moving

00:39:45.389 --> 00:39:47.449
a hundred, because that shows not only that we

00:39:47.449 --> 00:39:52.400
are. calm and relaxed and in control it maintains

00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.139
the focus on the athlete how it should be but

00:39:55.139 --> 00:39:56.699
so what happens sometimes if they're up there

00:39:56.699 --> 00:40:01.039
you're holding your arm out for 30 seconds a

00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.019
minute a minute a half and it gets tiring so

00:40:05.019 --> 00:40:09.539
i mean so i i hold out weights yeah oh well okay

00:40:09.539 --> 00:40:14.039
i don't do that but i should add that to my little

00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:18.690
routine I'm now realizing that I may be a terrible

00:40:18.690 --> 00:40:21.289
belayer because when people are resting, that's

00:40:21.289 --> 00:40:22.929
like my chance to be like, okay, I'm going to

00:40:22.929 --> 00:40:25.969
like look down and like fix my neck. But that's

00:40:25.969 --> 00:40:28.030
the difference between, you know, competition

00:40:28.030 --> 00:40:30.829
and Iraq belaying, right? I mean, like if you're,

00:40:30.829 --> 00:40:33.170
you know, you're not in a competition like where

00:40:33.170 --> 00:40:35.570
somebody is, you know, their whole attempt is

00:40:35.570 --> 00:40:37.349
dependent on you, right? I mean, I think that's

00:40:37.349 --> 00:40:40.460
the one thing that, you know. is really ingrained

00:40:40.460 --> 00:40:42.179
in us and i think all of us are really passionate

00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:44.079
about right you know bling this is like the one

00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:48.199
time where somebody who is not an athlete can

00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:52.519
100 impact the athlete's performance we are tied

00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.639
to them anything we do could impede their performance

00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:01.579
so we need to be 100 focused in like it is the

00:41:01.579 --> 00:41:05.000
only sport where you have that relationship together

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:09.769
so i mean It is very much in the back of our

00:41:09.769 --> 00:41:13.429
minds that we need to be managing the slack appropriately.

00:41:13.489 --> 00:41:15.369
We need to be paying attention. If they have

00:41:15.369 --> 00:41:17.769
a big dynamic lube up there, we better be putting

00:41:17.769 --> 00:41:21.150
enough slack in that rope because if it looks

00:41:21.150 --> 00:41:24.030
like we have in any way aided them, their attempt

00:41:24.030 --> 00:41:27.730
is done. You know, so I mean, that has happened

00:41:27.730 --> 00:41:29.590
in elite competitions. You don't want to force

00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:33.550
a climber to have to either reclimb or to have

00:41:33.550 --> 00:41:36.269
their score downgraded because, you know, you

00:41:36.269 --> 00:41:38.989
weren't doing your job. Yeah. Do you like have

00:41:38.989 --> 00:41:41.670
some examples of where it's happened where it

00:41:41.670 --> 00:41:45.070
was kind of like on the belayer that an athlete

00:41:45.070 --> 00:41:48.329
either had something go wrong or fall off or

00:41:48.329 --> 00:41:49.909
something like that? Who was that World Cup?

00:41:50.269 --> 00:41:53.949
Was it Wu Zhang? I think so with the down climb.

00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.039
Last season, the climber down climbed, but the

00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:03.320
belayer didn't have enough slack in. So he kind

00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:07.139
of pulled off and probably could have fell, but

00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:10.159
it looked like the rope kept him on the wall.

00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:15.179
And they made the climber climb again. It's a

00:42:15.179 --> 00:42:19.440
pretty crazy round. So it was in finals too,

00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.409
I think. Yeah. And I mean, how unfortunate, right?

00:42:22.469 --> 00:42:25.309
Because they've already had an attempt and so

00:42:25.309 --> 00:42:29.030
now they're no longer fresh, right? So, you know,

00:42:29.050 --> 00:42:32.309
as a belayer, that is your worst nightmare. Yeah,

00:42:32.329 --> 00:42:35.530
like there's no other sport where you're essentially

00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:39.869
asking the athletes to put their lives in the

00:42:39.869 --> 00:42:42.670
hands of a total stranger. And like, we're aware

00:42:42.670 --> 00:42:46.510
of that and we take that really seriously. And

00:42:46.510 --> 00:42:49.969
like... You can tell that the athletes notice

00:42:49.969 --> 00:42:55.650
that too because you know that when they know

00:42:55.650 --> 00:42:57.510
that the belay is going to be good, they're going

00:42:57.510 --> 00:42:59.170
to go up there and they're going to climb as

00:42:59.170 --> 00:43:02.670
hard as they possibly can. So it makes the climbers

00:43:02.670 --> 00:43:04.670
better and then the route setters can set harder.

00:43:04.909 --> 00:43:08.789
And it just overall pushes our athletes to do

00:43:08.789 --> 00:43:11.530
even better year after year. Yeah. I feel like

00:43:11.530 --> 00:43:14.130
belaying, it's kind of like our love letter back

00:43:14.130 --> 00:43:17.139
to the sport, right? I mean, we're here just

00:43:17.139 --> 00:43:21.820
because, you know, the sport is evolving. The

00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:24.139
athletes are getting better. The athletes want

00:43:24.139 --> 00:43:26.239
to be pushed more. So the setting has to get

00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:29.039
better. And so for all that to happen, we have

00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:31.360
to evolve and get better with them and be ready

00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.840
for crazy sets, ready to support in any way possible.

00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:39.719
So, you know, we're up for the challenge. That's

00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:42.619
why we keep working at it. Have you guys ever

00:43:42.619 --> 00:43:45.480
had personal experiences, maybe in your earlier

00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:48.179
days, where you feel like you hindered an athlete?

00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:53.980
No, not really. I feel like... I don't know.

00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:55.280
I guess then you wouldn't have been approved

00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:59.780
to get harder gigs. I mean, it happens to the

00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:03.719
best of us, I think. Every now and then, I'll

00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:07.119
have an unexpected clip, and maybe it's not as

00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.420
loose as it should be. it's they still have enough

00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:12.960
slack so i think a term that we came up this

00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:16.360
year with was snug roping right so it's like

00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:18.980
where we're not short roping the athlete but

00:44:18.980 --> 00:44:20.559
it's like they're going to pull up and like they

00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:23.679
can feel you a little bit right and so we don't

00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:25.579
want them to feel us at all and you know that

00:44:25.579 --> 00:44:28.300
came out you know and i think this goes back

00:44:28.300 --> 00:44:30.659
to you know the relationship between the climber

00:44:30.659 --> 00:44:33.719
and the belayer so you know after that um After

00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:36.119
that comp where we coined the term snug roping,

00:44:36.179 --> 00:44:38.380
you know, we had a couple of climbers come up

00:44:38.380 --> 00:44:40.179
to us and be like, you know, hey, you guys can

00:44:40.179 --> 00:44:41.719
give us a little bit more rope the next time

00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:46.239
around if you want. And like the trust. I mean,

00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:48.780
it was so beautiful that they felt enough trust

00:44:48.780 --> 00:44:50.559
to come up and tell us that. And we're like,

00:44:50.559 --> 00:44:52.980
thank you for, you know, we're here. We're here

00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:55.780
for that. So thanks for letting us know. We'll

00:44:55.780 --> 00:44:58.099
let this we'll let everybody know. And we will

00:44:58.099 --> 00:45:00.960
filter this throughout, you know, the organization

00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.869
for like the higher level comps. Um, but also,

00:45:04.929 --> 00:45:07.750
you know, we remind them, like, we've had a couple

00:45:07.750 --> 00:45:09.329
of athletes, you know, in the chair, they'll

00:45:09.329 --> 00:45:13.570
be like, give me extra arms. I want all the slack

00:45:13.570 --> 00:45:15.909
in the world and the system when I go to belay.

00:45:15.909 --> 00:45:21.550
And we're like, no, okay. Gotcha. You know? So,

00:45:21.650 --> 00:45:23.289
I mean, and that's, you know, that's something

00:45:23.289 --> 00:45:26.409
that, you know, athletes always can do. Give

00:45:26.409 --> 00:45:29.250
me, give me more than you think. Yeah. And I

00:45:29.250 --> 00:45:32.250
want to get into, I guess, like your. communications

00:45:32.250 --> 00:45:35.889
and relationships with the athletes a bit. Do

00:45:35.889 --> 00:45:38.590
you ever like, I don't know, like how much you

00:45:38.590 --> 00:45:41.030
talk to the athletes. Do you say anything to

00:45:41.030 --> 00:45:43.530
athletes who've had like an unfortunate slip

00:45:43.530 --> 00:45:46.110
or do you like try to comfort them in some way?

00:45:46.130 --> 00:45:47.809
Or is it really just like you're in the background

00:45:47.809 --> 00:45:51.389
and kind of, yeah, you don't say anything. It's,

00:45:51.429 --> 00:45:53.909
we try to, you know, we try to really minimize

00:45:53.909 --> 00:45:56.250
that, right? And stay as professional as possible.

00:45:56.389 --> 00:45:58.369
Because what you do to one, what you do or say

00:45:58.369 --> 00:46:00.269
to one athlete, you need to be able to do that

00:46:00.269 --> 00:46:02.789
to every other one. So it's, you know, the same.

00:46:03.110 --> 00:46:05.349
So typically our communication when that happens

00:46:05.349 --> 00:46:08.550
is, please check your score with the judges.

00:46:09.190 --> 00:46:14.090
Oh. I mean, we really, because I mean, what are

00:46:14.090 --> 00:46:15.730
we going to say that's going to make them feel

00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:18.429
better? You know, they know. So we just kind

00:46:18.429 --> 00:46:20.570
of try and keep it the same. You know, occasionally

00:46:20.570 --> 00:46:22.550
they, you know, if something happens, like they

00:46:22.550 --> 00:46:24.369
might say something to us like, you know, I really

00:46:24.369 --> 00:46:27.449
blatch that one. We're like, you know, if they

00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:29.469
say something, then, you know, OK, that's different.

00:46:29.550 --> 00:46:31.570
But, you know, we're not going to come out and

00:46:31.570 --> 00:46:34.809
start up a convo. So, yeah, it's the same thing

00:46:34.809 --> 00:46:36.969
with safety checks. We try to keep it professional.

00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:40.099
So it's like, hi, my name is Silad. I'm your

00:46:40.099 --> 00:46:42.059
belayer. Your knot looks good. Your harness looks

00:46:42.059 --> 00:46:44.579
good. Here's my side of the system. And then

00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:48.239
that's like typically it. But like every now

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:50.739
and then, like if a climber looks kind of nervous

00:46:50.739 --> 00:46:53.119
and they're trying to start small talk, I will

00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.960
small talk with them because a lot of the times

00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.880
it looks like something like, oh yeah, you need

00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.159
to talk to someone right now. And like, I can

00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:04.000
chit chat a little bit, but we typically keep

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:07.619
all of that to like a minimum. not something

00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:11.380
that we initiate and i was also thinking um i

00:47:11.380 --> 00:47:13.840
don't know did you guys watch the lead comp in

00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:16.460
prague i have not yet i've watched a little bit

00:47:16.460 --> 00:47:19.179
of it who was it i think like satone yoshida

00:47:19.179 --> 00:47:22.840
fell um on like the very start and then he like

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:26.139
continued climbing would you like say something

00:47:26.139 --> 00:47:28.840
in that case or would you just let them continue

00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.280
and then it's up to the judges it's up to the

00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:33.960
judges it is up to the judges the judges call

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.019
we are there for we are there for safety Yeah,

00:47:37.099 --> 00:47:40.519
I've had that happen where climbers fall off

00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:42.760
on the first move, but typically here they know

00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:45.980
that's the end of their attempt. Or they'll just

00:47:45.980 --> 00:47:49.239
look at you and ask, is that it? And typically

00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:53.940
we just verify, yeah, sorry. We all look to the

00:47:53.940 --> 00:47:58.929
judges and then are like, no. Oof. That's rough.

00:47:59.670 --> 00:48:03.130
Okay. I'm just thinking for now, I think I heard

00:48:03.130 --> 00:48:05.550
that there's going to be like a dual belay system

00:48:05.550 --> 00:48:08.010
for youth climbers. Can you explain that a bit

00:48:08.010 --> 00:48:12.050
more? Yeah. So it's, it is the same system that

00:48:12.050 --> 00:48:15.449
you have seen used within the para climbing community.

00:48:15.650 --> 00:48:17.210
And I think that's kind of like the origination

00:48:17.210 --> 00:48:21.389
of its use and really and truly what the, you

00:48:21.389 --> 00:48:24.519
have two belayers on there. And so The primary

00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:30.179
goal of this setup is so it allows climbers to

00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:34.000
go on an overhung route, but you are controlling

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:39.619
their swing. So you have somebody who is belaying

00:48:39.619 --> 00:48:42.719
up to a certain anchor point, and then the climber

00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.539
can go above them. But now if they were to fall

00:48:46.539 --> 00:48:51.170
above this anchor point... Their swing is controlled

00:48:51.170 --> 00:48:54.369
out. So no longer if it was a typical top rope

00:48:54.369 --> 00:48:56.369
They would have what we would call like a kingpin

00:48:56.369 --> 00:48:57.849
swing, right? They would just have like this

00:48:57.849 --> 00:49:02.449
huge swing out Now if you have a tube layer the

00:49:02.449 --> 00:49:05.150
dual belay system, you're controlling that z

00:49:05.150 --> 00:49:08.250
-axis So you're able to keep them closer to the

00:49:08.250 --> 00:49:10.929
wall. You have what's called a primary and a

00:49:10.929 --> 00:49:13.940
secondary layer Your primary belayer is the one

00:49:13.940 --> 00:49:16.599
who will interact with the climber, will do the

00:49:16.599 --> 00:49:19.639
safety check, will clip them in. And then they

00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:25.059
are the one who are starting out. It's like a

00:49:25.059 --> 00:49:27.760
top rope belay. And then as soon as the climber

00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:31.480
gets to that anchor point, they shift over into

00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:34.119
operating like it's a lead belay. They are starting

00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:37.420
to give rope out. And then your secondary belayer

00:49:37.420 --> 00:49:40.039
is a person who's... The rope goes all the way

00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:42.219
up to the top anchor point, to the highest point.

00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:45.199
And so they are constantly on just like a regular

00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:48.019
top rope belay. But the two belayers work together.

00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:51.699
It's really cool. So we just used it for the

00:49:51.699 --> 00:49:55.599
first time at divisionals here. For us, a lot

00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:58.059
of climbers had not seen it used before, these

00:49:58.059 --> 00:50:01.019
youth climbers. We used it for the younger kids

00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:04.400
who are still on top rope. And they were super

00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:06.480
excited when they walked out. They just kind

00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.539
of looked and, you know, they would ask a couple

00:50:08.539 --> 00:50:10.599
of questions. They're like, I don't unclip the

00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:12.559
clip. We're like, don't touch the clip, you know,

00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:15.420
but they're asking what goes on. And, you know,

00:50:15.420 --> 00:50:17.500
as they were climbing, they got so excited when

00:50:17.500 --> 00:50:19.139
they came down. They're like, wow, I haven't,

00:50:19.139 --> 00:50:20.840
I haven't gotten to go on an overhang. That was

00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:24.440
really neat. why don't swing like it's neat yeah

00:50:24.440 --> 00:50:27.860
it's been used in the past mostly for para climbing

00:50:27.860 --> 00:50:30.679
um because not only does it control the swing

00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:34.500
having that lower anchor um if your climber falls

00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:37.460
lower to the ground um if you didn't have that

00:50:37.460 --> 00:50:39.320
lower anchor they could swing out and it would

00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:41.639
be a ground fall so that minimizes that risk

00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:45.539
as well But now it's not just for para climbing.

00:50:46.340 --> 00:50:48.619
Now we're using it for youth and we also used

00:50:48.619 --> 00:50:51.219
it for collegiate nationals the past two seasons,

00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:54.599
I believe. So, yeah, there's lots of applications

00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:57.820
for it, I think, not just para. So, I mean, just

00:50:57.820 --> 00:51:00.039
anything that would be like top rope otherwise.

00:51:00.579 --> 00:51:02.320
Yeah. And I mean, all of a sudden, like if you're

00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:04.099
just a top rope climber, all of a sudden you

00:51:04.099 --> 00:51:06.260
have the ability to get on something that's overhung

00:51:06.260 --> 00:51:09.300
safely. I mean, it's really it's really a cool

00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:12.300
way to like intro in and also just give, you

00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:14.340
know, these younger climbers the feeling of what

00:51:14.340 --> 00:51:16.559
does that feel like if they're not lead? Because

00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:18.099
typically it's when you when they're leading

00:51:18.099 --> 00:51:20.519
is when they get that first ability to go on

00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:22.320
something that has like a slight, you know, vert.

00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:26.760
Yeah. If you think about like in a regular gym,

00:51:26.980 --> 00:51:30.159
they typically will have like. a section of the

00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:33.199
wall that's lead only, the dual allows you to

00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:35.599
put a top rope on a section of the wall that

00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:37.880
would typically just be lead only. Interesting.

00:51:38.219 --> 00:51:42.179
Yeah, I guess when I first started doing like

00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:46.639
rope climbing, like the gym I was doing it at

00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:50.460
had overhung walls in for top rope. And I was

00:51:50.460 --> 00:51:52.880
kind of just like, well, if you fall, then yeah,

00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:55.679
that's it's over. It's over for you. You're not

00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:57.719
getting back on the wall. Like, oh, there goes

00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:00.639
Jenny. Well, I mean, I guess it didn't feel unsafe.

00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:02.940
It was just like, you can't really get back to

00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:06.780
the wall easily. Yeah. Is there like concerns

00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:11.159
about safety with overhang and top rope? I think

00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:14.300
it depends. It depends on the level of overhang.

00:52:14.420 --> 00:52:18.150
So traditionally like. You want to prevent a

00:52:18.150 --> 00:52:20.010
groundfall, especially like so if they're top

00:52:20.010 --> 00:52:21.929
roping, like if they're top roping and it's on

00:52:21.929 --> 00:52:24.449
an overhang, you know, that risk is, you know,

00:52:24.449 --> 00:52:26.969
that lower section where, you know, the rope's

00:52:26.969 --> 00:52:28.329
not going to be able to take up enough and they

00:52:28.329 --> 00:52:30.929
could groundfall. So having that lower anchor

00:52:30.929 --> 00:52:34.329
point does eliminate that. You know, secondarily,

00:52:34.329 --> 00:52:38.769
it eliminates that huge swing out. So you guys

00:52:38.769 --> 00:52:40.889
are controlling that. And, you know, for the

00:52:40.889 --> 00:52:43.289
parents watching their youth kids, like it looks

00:52:43.289 --> 00:52:48.679
so much better. And then in terms of, I think

00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:50.559
a lot of people would want to know, is it too

00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:52.599
late for them to become a Blair for the upcoming

00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:57.019
Olympics? Probably. Probably. Do you like know

00:52:57.019 --> 00:52:59.019
what the process will look like? I hate to say

00:52:59.019 --> 00:53:02.460
it. No, we have no idea what the process will

00:53:02.460 --> 00:53:08.400
look like as of right now. My mindset is like,

00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:15.309
if they want me, then. sure I'll go but I'm not

00:53:15.309 --> 00:53:18.469
like that's not like a goal for me necessarily

00:53:18.469 --> 00:53:23.429
it's just another comp yeah it would be cool

00:53:23.429 --> 00:53:27.730
I mean yeah but I think you know our goals are

00:53:27.730 --> 00:53:32.730
the next QE season the next elite season the

00:53:32.730 --> 00:53:35.190
next comp what do I need to do to keep improving

00:53:35.190 --> 00:53:39.550
myself so that this gets better yeah you know

00:53:39.550 --> 00:53:42.389
and also I think You know, they'll be choosing,

00:53:42.789 --> 00:53:46.309
you know, whenever they select that team, you

00:53:46.309 --> 00:53:48.869
know, that's for people who are much more important

00:53:48.869 --> 00:53:53.769
than me to do. As of now, we don't know, like,

00:53:53.769 --> 00:53:56.650
what the application process looks like. We don't

00:53:56.650 --> 00:53:58.469
know who's going to be making those selections.

00:54:00.170 --> 00:54:04.809
And hopefully that'll be figured out in the next

00:54:04.809 --> 00:54:11.119
couple months up to a year from now. But I mean,

00:54:11.179 --> 00:54:14.699
only time will tell really. Like I think like

00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:18.659
my goals, especially like as the assistant national

00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:21.460
coordinator for the belay program, I also run

00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:24.659
our Instagram at USA Belay. Like my goals are

00:54:24.659 --> 00:54:27.539
like, how can I improve my belaying for these

00:54:27.539 --> 00:54:31.679
athletes? And what can I do for the belay community?

00:54:32.510 --> 00:54:35.130
just to like help out the logistics side of things,

00:54:35.269 --> 00:54:38.269
have more resources available for belayers and

00:54:38.269 --> 00:54:41.150
like have more resources available for like our

00:54:41.150 --> 00:54:42.809
head belayers who are like helping lead these

00:54:42.809 --> 00:54:47.590
events. So like there's not like a specific event

00:54:47.590 --> 00:54:52.090
is my goal. It's like more broad and like longer

00:54:52.090 --> 00:54:54.489
term than that. And I guess it's not like a one

00:54:54.489 --> 00:54:57.210
-time thing. You could belay for much longer

00:54:57.210 --> 00:55:00.460
if you keep up your arm and neck exercises. Yes,

00:55:00.460 --> 00:55:03.599
for sure. Reps make reps. Any chance you know

00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:06.079
about like the other volunteering positions of

00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.940
like judging or brushing or something else? I

00:55:08.940 --> 00:55:12.119
have no idea. I mean, I can only speak from like

00:55:12.119 --> 00:55:16.159
my experience at the World Games, which like

00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:18.000
if you don't know anything about it, it's kind

00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:20.340
of like an off -brand Olympics. They had some

00:55:20.340 --> 00:55:22.739
pretty crazy sports. They had like sumo wrestling

00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:27.760
and like ballroom dancing and like ultimate frisbee.

00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:31.860
It was crazy. And then I was like, of all places

00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:35.760
to host this Birmingham, Alabama, what? But yeah,

00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:40.059
so the way that I ended up judging was I just

00:55:40.059 --> 00:55:44.260
like filled out the volunteer form, the like

00:55:44.260 --> 00:55:46.519
general volunteer form. And then I ended up in

00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:51.639
that spot. I think that like there might be some

00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:54.960
other selections for like judging for the Olympics.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.059
You probably need to be in the judges program.

00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.280
But just like Olympics in general, if you want

00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:03.760
to get involved, sign up for the general volunteer,

00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:06.380
see what happens. I mean, that's how I got into

00:56:06.380 --> 00:56:09.019
this. I wonder if there are skills needed for

00:56:09.019 --> 00:56:11.199
brushing because some people are definitely better

00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:13.579
brushers than other people. Definitely. I have

00:56:13.579 --> 00:56:16.980
no idea. Isn't there some pear that comes from

00:56:16.980 --> 00:56:19.199
Hawaii to brush at, like, the World, when they've

00:56:19.199 --> 00:56:21.599
had, like, the Boulder World Cups here? The Hawaiian

00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:25.099
brushers. Yes. Like, I've heard about them, and,

00:56:25.139 --> 00:56:27.639
like, it just, I think it's, like, the most adorable

00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:30.239
thing. Like, yeah, they're just, like, they travel

00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.619
around when the World Cups are here in Salt Lake,

00:56:32.619 --> 00:56:35.280
and they brush for the Boulder World Cups. Yeah.

00:56:35.739 --> 00:56:38.380
Maybe I'll need to talk to them. I didn't know

00:56:38.380 --> 00:56:40.699
that was a thing. Yeah. You run into very interesting

00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:43.820
people doing stuff like this. Last thing about,

00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:46.500
I guess, like the future of Belay. I saw that

00:56:46.500 --> 00:56:48.800
you guys recently got like the Trango sponsorship.

00:56:49.800 --> 00:56:52.960
So how does that work? Do you guys actually like

00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:55.440
see any of that or is it just just for the program?

00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:59.280
Oh, it's crazy. Yeah. It was like the most unexpected

00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.280
thing. Right. I mean, from for a group that typically

00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:06.639
we pride ourselves on being, you know, invisible.

00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.300
to be seen and then just to be supported by,

00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:15.179
you know, this really robust brand that I feel

00:57:15.179 --> 00:57:17.800
like Triangle is kind of a disruptor in terms

00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:21.500
of how they approach their brands, their sponsorships.

00:57:21.699 --> 00:57:23.800
If you look at some of the people that they sponsor,

00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:25.099
you know, they're sponsoring, you know, people

00:57:25.099 --> 00:57:27.340
like Matt Groom, they're sponsoring photographers

00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:30.539
or sponsoring setters. They sponsor, you know,

00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:32.739
now belayers are sponsoring, you know, not only

00:57:32.739 --> 00:57:35.039
elite athletes are sponsoring, you know, some

00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:38.030
people who are like. really really involved with

00:57:38.030 --> 00:57:42.289
in the community doing cool things um so it was

00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:44.949
this beautifully unexpected thing and they've

00:57:44.949 --> 00:57:48.590
given us like this really cool gear to use and

00:57:48.590 --> 00:57:52.210
then they want feedback from us so like how can

00:57:52.210 --> 00:57:55.429
we make this better we're like really like you

00:57:55.429 --> 00:57:58.469
know they're you know they're they're ropes you

00:57:58.469 --> 00:58:00.329
know like what's like the ropes where they've

00:58:00.329 --> 00:58:02.110
got you know the last five meters of each end

00:58:02.110 --> 00:58:05.780
that are red like it's so cool and they they

00:58:05.780 --> 00:58:08.119
work beautifully you know it's like green and

00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:09.780
then it's or it's a green and then they've got

00:58:09.780 --> 00:58:12.280
these red ends and like the rope bag the rope

00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:17.219
totes a rope tote is so dope like it's it's it's

00:58:17.219 --> 00:58:19.639
the bag that every girl dreams of it not only

00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.260
can carry your rope it can carry all your gear

00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:25.179
and it also works as a as a carry -on for the

00:58:25.179 --> 00:58:29.199
airlines if you need to right yes yeah um they

00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:31.260
also have like they've got i mean their harness

00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:35.719
like for somebody to go in and make a harness

00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:41.440
where the uh padding um adjusts independent of

00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:44.059
the buckle so like your harness isn't like kind

00:58:44.059 --> 00:58:46.559
of like off kilter like you can it's like make

00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:49.699
these micro adjustments on it like it's very

00:58:49.699 --> 00:58:53.840
thoughtfully crafted gear clearly derived off

00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:58.699
of feedback from you know people who climb and

00:58:58.699 --> 00:59:04.179
climb a lot um and so yeah when they just wanted

00:59:04.179 --> 00:59:08.300
to partner with us we're like us really wow it's

00:59:08.300 --> 00:59:12.219
like me yeah a lot of the stuff that we've received

00:59:12.219 --> 00:59:14.500
from tringo has been really good and the stuff

00:59:14.500 --> 00:59:17.500
that has been less good we tell them and they

00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:19.840
like really value that feedback and like we really

00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:24.000
appreciate it and like that harness is like actually

00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:27.079
one of the best harnesses i've ever had and like

00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:28.960
i have thick thighs it's hard to find a harness

00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:32.289
nothing's great But it's just like little stuff

00:59:32.289 --> 00:59:35.389
like that. And like the team at Trango are just

00:59:35.389 --> 00:59:40.030
so nice and they support us in every way. And

00:59:40.030 --> 00:59:42.909
like we tell them what we're up to and like they're

00:59:42.909 --> 00:59:46.429
just there to support us. And like it's been

00:59:46.429 --> 00:59:49.110
a really cool experience. I don't think that

00:59:49.110 --> 00:59:52.610
like when I started this, if you told me that

00:59:52.610 --> 00:59:55.869
I'd be like. a sponsored athlete, I would have

00:59:55.869 --> 00:59:58.750
told you that you're crazy. And well, so do you

00:59:58.750 --> 01:00:01.190
guys actually like get paid through Trango or

01:00:01.190 --> 01:00:04.530
is it just like gear and stuff and like maybe

01:00:04.530 --> 01:00:07.130
payment for the USA Belay program? It's mostly

01:00:07.130 --> 01:00:11.269
gear. Yeah. It's just gear and, you know, and

01:00:11.269 --> 01:00:13.690
the honest feedback that, you know, we want to

01:00:13.690 --> 01:00:16.570
give to them in terms of supporting what they,

01:00:16.590 --> 01:00:18.769
you know, like just like so graciously provided

01:00:18.769 --> 01:00:23.679
to us. Yeah, but there's no other monetary compensation.

01:00:24.019 --> 01:00:27.679
And I think we're fine with that. Yeah, we're

01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:29.300
totally fine with that. We don't need it. The

01:00:29.300 --> 01:00:32.500
gear. Don't say that out loud. Well, I mean,

01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:37.360
we're like a group of nerds who are very opinionated

01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:42.980
about the gear that we use and to have a climbing

01:00:42.980 --> 01:00:48.489
brand notice that and notice. like hey you're

01:00:48.489 --> 01:00:51.449
doing really good work for our sport like that

01:00:51.449 --> 01:00:54.489
means the world honestly because it's like a

01:00:54.489 --> 01:00:56.949
passion project on both sides right I mean they

01:00:56.949 --> 01:00:58.949
can see that we're super passionate about you

01:00:58.949 --> 01:01:00.829
know going and belaying and so you know they've

01:01:00.829 --> 01:01:03.250
just decided they're passionate about who they

01:01:03.250 --> 01:01:05.630
want to support and partner their brand with

01:01:05.630 --> 01:01:08.690
and so it's like the hugest compliment and it's

01:01:08.690 --> 01:01:13.880
not like a cash money benefit I guess but it

01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:16.800
is a little bit of a monetary benefit for us

01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:19.139
because like we're not having to worry about

01:01:19.139 --> 01:01:21.719
buying replacement harnesses and like buying

01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:24.780
replacement gloves and like stuff like that because

01:01:24.780 --> 01:01:27.840
that stuff really does add up um and like the

01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:30.880
bully program does not buy that stuff for you

01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:34.480
oh like you provide your own you have to provide

01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:37.940
your own gear essentially oh okay well i mean

01:01:37.940 --> 01:01:39.699
i guess not your own rope but like the other

01:01:39.699 --> 01:01:42.179
stuff ropes are for the competition but like

01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:46.039
yeah the harness carabiner gloves belay device

01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:50.000
it's typically owned by the belayer okay awesome

01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:52.539
well congrats on getting that sponsorship that

01:01:52.539 --> 01:01:55.739
is super cool thanks thanks and then one thing

01:01:55.739 --> 01:01:58.659
i forgot to get into um back when we were talking

01:01:58.659 --> 01:02:01.039
about like the dual belay system i know you both

01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:03.559
mentioned really love uh that you guys really

01:02:03.559 --> 01:02:06.340
love belaying for para climbing what is it that's

01:02:06.340 --> 01:02:08.719
so fun about belaying for para climbing vibes

01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:13.539
yeah I mean, I think, I think at the heart of

01:02:13.539 --> 01:02:15.619
it, climbing has always been, you know, this,

01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:18.980
it's always kind of pride itself and being inclusive,

01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:21.179
right? It's like the sport, like where it's just

01:02:21.179 --> 01:02:23.179
like kind of like inclusive for everybody. And

01:02:23.179 --> 01:02:25.840
so here, you know, it's, there's nothing that's

01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.300
speaking to the fact that climbing is for everybody

01:02:29.300 --> 01:02:35.280
than that event. And it is just like people celebrating

01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:39.519
athletic ability. at its purest form. And to

01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:42.699
sit there and to even get to partake and be a

01:02:42.699 --> 01:02:48.119
part of that experience is just like the coolest

01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:51.619
thing to sit there and watch. So, I mean, you're

01:02:51.619 --> 01:02:54.800
watching these athletes do climb stuff that is

01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:59.380
so hard and just make it look easy. You're just,

01:02:59.460 --> 01:03:01.340
you know, watching them. I mean, you know, that

01:03:01.340 --> 01:03:04.159
happens on any, you know, on all levels, right?

01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:08.059
But I mean, just, you know. The ability to be

01:03:08.059 --> 01:03:10.360
on the other end of a rope and watch athletes

01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:13.300
just achieve is just, like, super cool. Yeah.

01:03:13.579 --> 01:03:16.960
And the vibes. The vibes are the best. Yeah,

01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:20.800
it's hard to explain. Like, I mean, of course,

01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:25.039
like, I guess it's still, like, intense. Like,

01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:28.159
there's still stakes, but somehow it's, like,

01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:31.539
even more encouraging than, like, any other climbing

01:03:31.539 --> 01:03:35.929
competition environment I've ever been in. Yeah,

01:03:35.969 --> 01:03:37.809
I've been kind of sad because I wasn't able to

01:03:37.809 --> 01:03:42.650
fit any of the para events in my schedule this

01:03:42.650 --> 01:03:46.110
season. And I maybe feel a little bit bad. Para

01:03:46.110 --> 01:03:48.650
Climbing Nationals was like held my wedding weekend.

01:03:48.690 --> 01:03:50.989
So I kind of stole some of the belayers. Not

01:03:50.989 --> 01:03:57.849
my fault, really. But yeah, like it's just it's

01:03:57.849 --> 01:04:03.079
also another. challenge to play i guess maybe

01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:05.579
challenge is not the right word it's like a different

01:04:05.579 --> 01:04:09.679
method there's other things to consider um because

01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:11.500
sometimes you'll have like a standard top rope

01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:14.519
sometimes you'll have the dual top rope um and

01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:17.860
then there's like other like field of play management

01:04:17.860 --> 01:04:21.480
things that need to be considered that the players

01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:24.539
have to do like where is your pile of rope like

01:04:24.539 --> 01:04:28.380
in finals are your seated climbers going to have

01:04:28.380 --> 01:04:32.139
to you need to think What path is their best

01:04:32.139 --> 01:04:34.780
path to get to their route? Do you need to move

01:04:34.780 --> 01:04:37.360
ropes out of their way so that they can get to

01:04:37.360 --> 01:04:41.460
that route better? And then also just like thinking

01:04:41.460 --> 01:04:45.340
about how can you minimize the swing for a visually

01:04:45.340 --> 01:04:49.619
impaired climber so that like it's not so that

01:04:49.619 --> 01:04:51.500
they don't like spin because that could be really

01:04:51.500 --> 01:04:55.239
disoriented. And then a lot of the times also

01:04:55.239 --> 01:05:00.579
like some of the climbers. like their weight

01:05:00.579 --> 01:05:02.760
distribution is different sometimes they'll have

01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:05.780
like chest harnesses so you have to think about

01:05:05.780 --> 01:05:08.340
like those catches as well um try to minimize

01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:11.239
like their risk of flipping over and like it's

01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:13.980
all yeah it's just a different way to think about

01:05:13.980 --> 01:05:17.820
bling so i think for me i think it was the first

01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:19.699
time that we had the visually impaired climbers

01:05:19.699 --> 01:05:22.780
out there and they want they make they have the

01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:26.800
gym go silent so that the callers can you know

01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:31.409
they can hear themselves back and forth And that

01:05:31.409 --> 01:05:34.730
to me was just like, oh. And it was like the

01:05:34.730 --> 01:05:37.630
coolest thing to observe. Because I mean, the

01:05:37.630 --> 01:05:41.389
routes are so hard. I mean, you know, they're

01:05:41.389 --> 01:05:44.489
not setting easier. The routes are just as hard.

01:05:44.929 --> 01:05:51.090
But I think that was something that I was surprised

01:05:51.090 --> 01:05:53.170
by, but also thought it was just kind of like

01:05:53.170 --> 01:05:57.289
really awesome. to be there because you hear

01:05:57.289 --> 01:05:59.250
you hear them climbing you hear you hear them

01:05:59.250 --> 01:06:01.650
calling move the right hand up here no a little

01:06:01.650 --> 01:06:04.110
bit more turn your turn your hand as you know

01:06:04.110 --> 01:06:06.550
this many degrees okay yeah okay now bring your

01:06:06.550 --> 01:06:09.329
your right foot up a little bit more yeah it's

01:06:09.329 --> 01:06:11.570
just a jib okay there you go okay now you're

01:06:11.570 --> 01:06:13.650
gonna shift your weight oh i mean they are walking

01:06:13.650 --> 01:06:15.769
them through it's it's like this art form and

01:06:15.769 --> 01:06:19.230
like this blind trust like in somebody else who's

01:06:19.230 --> 01:06:22.320
just like telling you what to do pretty cool

01:06:22.320 --> 01:06:24.480
and I think the biggest thing about belaying

01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:27.900
those competitions like I'm already like a fairly

01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:31.179
observant person like I think a lot of my belay

01:06:31.179 --> 01:06:33.239
and a lot of my belay style has just been from

01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:36.840
like observing really high level belayers and

01:06:36.840 --> 01:06:40.059
then like mimicking that but like for para there's

01:06:40.059 --> 01:06:43.710
like way more things that you can learn just

01:06:43.710 --> 01:06:46.769
by looking at the field of play and how the players

01:06:46.769 --> 01:06:49.269
are moving how the head player is moving because

01:06:49.269 --> 01:06:51.030
sometimes if there's like a weight difference

01:06:51.030 --> 01:06:54.449
you're on top rope so you can't necessarily do

01:06:54.449 --> 01:06:58.369
the slide catch as well so sometimes you'll have

01:06:58.369 --> 01:07:01.409
the head player go hold on to the harness of

01:07:01.409 --> 01:07:05.309
that belayer so they don't fly up into the air

01:07:05.929 --> 01:07:08.510
So it's just like, I don't know, you learn a

01:07:08.510 --> 01:07:11.769
lot of little things like that just from observing

01:07:11.769 --> 01:07:15.250
the field of play. I just realized, I guess I

01:07:15.250 --> 01:07:17.909
don't know what you're supposed to do for like

01:07:17.909 --> 01:07:20.610
top rope belaying when you're doing this. Like,

01:07:20.610 --> 01:07:24.789
can you even tell if someone is being like aided

01:07:24.789 --> 01:07:27.389
in some way by the rope when it's just a top

01:07:27.389 --> 01:07:30.590
rope? Yeah. So we do something called triangulation,

01:07:30.630 --> 01:07:34.329
like when you are top boopling. So, you know,

01:07:34.329 --> 01:07:35.929
the rope is coming down, but then we'll hold

01:07:35.929 --> 01:07:38.610
it. Imagine there's a rope right here. You'll

01:07:38.610 --> 01:07:40.190
hold it to the side. So you'll see the rope kind

01:07:40.190 --> 01:07:42.590
of going here and out. But there'll be like a

01:07:42.590 --> 01:07:45.949
little bit of like slack here so you can see.

01:07:46.349 --> 01:07:49.630
And so you don't want the rope taut, really.

01:07:49.730 --> 01:07:51.809
And so like pulling it out, that triangulation

01:07:51.809 --> 01:07:53.929
is to show that there is slack in the system.

01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:56.519
I always like to tell people, like when I'm doing

01:07:56.519 --> 01:08:00.179
briefings for local events because you have Top

01:08:00.179 --> 01:08:02.960
Rope and Youth, is that you want to try to keep

01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:05.860
the slack on your side of the system instead

01:08:05.860 --> 01:08:09.139
of the climber's side of the system. Just because

01:08:09.139 --> 01:08:11.460
I don't know if you've like ever climbed with

01:08:11.460 --> 01:08:14.719
a top rope belayer who is either like belaying

01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:16.720
slow or not really paying attention. And you

01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:19.199
just have this like giant loop on your side as

01:08:19.199 --> 01:08:21.920
the climber or they're like not quite keeping

01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:24.399
up and it's just like hitting you in the face

01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:26.619
the whole time. So it's like you want to pay

01:08:26.619 --> 01:08:30.539
attention so that you're pulling the slack out

01:08:30.539 --> 01:08:34.819
of their side as they go up. At the same time.

01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:37.380
So the rope stays in essentially the same spot,

01:08:37.539 --> 01:08:39.640
but you want to keep just a little bit of slack

01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:41.560
on your side. So if they need to down climb a

01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:43.199
little bit, you have it on their side and they'll

01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:45.420
have it. And then you can like take that back

01:08:45.420 --> 01:08:48.460
to keep on p -busting. When you're belaying for

01:08:48.460 --> 01:08:50.399
harder and harder routes, there's like more of

01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.500
these little tricks that come up. Like what are

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:55.739
some of these things that can actually make belaying

01:08:55.739 --> 01:08:57.579
more difficult when the route gets more difficult?

01:08:58.140 --> 01:09:02.340
You know, so if they are on, if they have huge

01:09:02.340 --> 01:09:05.640
volumes. on the wall right i mean those are those

01:09:05.640 --> 01:09:07.680
are hazards so like those are things that we

01:09:07.680 --> 01:09:09.340
look at when you're going to lower the climber

01:09:09.340 --> 01:09:14.039
um especially if it's like on a on a straight

01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:16.699
up and down wall um we do something called the

01:09:16.699 --> 01:09:19.560
boop and lower right and so you look and you

01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:21.739
kind of check to see where those volumes are

01:09:21.739 --> 01:09:24.619
and you want to try and bake it so that they

01:09:24.619 --> 01:09:27.100
come down either before or after that volume

01:09:27.100 --> 01:09:29.560
so that they kind of touch and then you bring

01:09:29.560 --> 01:09:33.189
them down slowly because you know If they hit

01:09:33.189 --> 01:09:36.810
that volume, it's not going to feel good. Like

01:09:36.810 --> 01:09:38.590
that could be a spring day goal. That could be,

01:09:38.609 --> 01:09:43.489
you know, so, and then same thing with overhang,

01:09:43.590 --> 01:09:46.390
right? You know, how are you, or is there like

01:09:46.390 --> 01:09:49.270
a dynamic move? Are they doing a, are they having

01:09:49.270 --> 01:09:52.649
to do like a dyno mid routes? So you're having

01:09:52.649 --> 01:09:55.810
to look at that preemptively and make sure that

01:09:55.810 --> 01:09:57.810
you have slack in the system so that they can

01:09:57.810 --> 01:10:01.670
make that move. And nobody could say that. oh,

01:10:01.689 --> 01:10:03.789
you impeded them or the climber can't say that

01:10:03.789 --> 01:10:06.850
you impeded them. Sometimes, you know, we'll

01:10:06.850 --> 01:10:11.890
see a route where the draw line might, you know,

01:10:11.890 --> 01:10:14.949
kind of jog over. So it kind of puts a little

01:10:14.949 --> 01:10:18.590
bit more tension into the system. So we need

01:10:18.590 --> 01:10:21.409
to make sure you can always see, especially from,

01:10:21.430 --> 01:10:23.470
you know, where we're standing, there is like

01:10:23.470 --> 01:10:28.329
a drape there. So that there's never a question

01:10:28.329 --> 01:10:31.649
that the climber didn't have enough. slack yeah

01:10:31.649 --> 01:10:34.930
it's not only that like even with dynamic moves

01:10:34.930 --> 01:10:37.770
sometimes there will be a clip that's around

01:10:37.770 --> 01:10:41.989
there and then sometimes the clip will be in

01:10:41.989 --> 01:10:44.829
such a spot where they could clip and then dino

01:10:44.829 --> 01:10:48.329
or they could dino and then clip and so you just

01:10:48.329 --> 01:10:51.590
like need to be aware of that because it's like

01:10:51.590 --> 01:10:53.569
if they clip first they might need a little bit

01:10:53.569 --> 01:10:56.770
of extra slack to make the dino but then if they

01:10:56.770 --> 01:11:00.460
dino first you need to be prepared for If they

01:11:00.460 --> 01:11:04.119
miss this, this fall is going to be huge because

01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:07.000
their last clip is going to be much lower. So

01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:08.880
it's stuff like that. And also sometimes those

01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:14.079
long draws can make the catch a little difficult

01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:17.079
or sometimes they'll have like a series of long

01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:21.039
draws. And so if they like don't clip the next

01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:24.260
one, then like the fall can get really big. I

01:11:24.260 --> 01:11:26.550
know we had a route like that. in the collegiate

01:11:26.550 --> 01:11:30.550
qualifier it was just like five long draws um

01:11:30.550 --> 01:11:34.670
and we ended up just like having to make a lot

01:11:34.670 --> 01:11:38.010
of like kind of low catches just because they

01:11:38.010 --> 01:11:41.390
were like falling low um and it does there's

01:11:41.390 --> 01:11:43.310
like a weird thing with the friction too i feel

01:11:43.310 --> 01:11:45.850
like there's even less friction on long draws

01:11:45.850 --> 01:11:48.590
than like the standard is there anything you

01:11:48.590 --> 01:11:52.539
would like ask route setters to stop doing in

01:11:52.539 --> 01:11:54.760
order to make your job a bit difficult. No, not

01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:58.279
really. We can do it. It just makes it a little

01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:00.979
trickier, which sometimes we kind of like that,

01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:04.140
I'll be honest. I think I like the fact that

01:12:04.140 --> 01:12:06.119
they just have such blind trust in our abilities.

01:12:06.380 --> 01:12:08.039
You know, a lot of times they'll set stuff and,

01:12:08.039 --> 01:12:09.640
you know, maybe they'll come to us and be like,

01:12:09.699 --> 01:12:12.020
you know, team trials. They were setting, you

01:12:12.020 --> 01:12:14.140
know, really hard routes. I think they said they

01:12:14.140 --> 01:12:16.810
were. potentially some of the hardest routes

01:12:16.810 --> 01:12:18.710
that they had set for comp climbing within the

01:12:18.710 --> 01:12:20.729
U .S. And, you know, they would send us pictures

01:12:20.729 --> 01:12:24.210
the night before just so that, you know, we could

01:12:24.210 --> 01:12:26.189
kind of start chatting and discussing. And, you

01:12:26.189 --> 01:12:27.630
know, they were still going to be refining that

01:12:27.630 --> 01:12:29.750
that night. So it wasn't the final route. But,

01:12:29.789 --> 01:12:31.789
you know, we all just looked at it and were like,

01:12:31.930 --> 01:12:35.930
let's go. So it was fine. But, you know, like.

01:12:36.430 --> 01:12:38.229
There were a couple where it's like, okay, if

01:12:38.229 --> 01:12:40.250
they didn't make that next clip, they had, you

01:12:40.250 --> 01:12:42.050
know, like Celia said, there was a long draw

01:12:42.050 --> 01:12:44.829
and it made for a big fall. And they were just

01:12:44.829 --> 01:12:47.949
going to, it was a big swing. And so, you know,

01:12:48.010 --> 01:12:50.949
so you're managing that. But setters are just

01:12:50.949 --> 01:12:54.050
trying to keep up with the demands of the athletes.

01:12:54.270 --> 01:12:56.109
And so then it's our job to keep up with what

01:12:56.109 --> 01:12:59.689
they're doing. So we're there for it. Yeah. And

01:12:59.689 --> 01:13:02.979
I think they typically like to. or at least a

01:13:02.979 --> 01:13:05.760
little bit, take the belay into account. And,

01:13:05.779 --> 01:13:07.720
like, of course, if, like, we show up and we

01:13:07.720 --> 01:13:11.220
see something and we're like, eh, like, maybe

01:13:11.220 --> 01:13:13.260
this is a little iffy, we'll, like, talk it through

01:13:13.260 --> 01:13:15.979
with the setter. Or the setter, like Megan said,

01:13:16.060 --> 01:13:17.720
if they see something that they think is iffy,

01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:19.520
they'll bring it to us. And most of the time

01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:21.699
we'll be like, yeah, that's fine. Do you, like,

01:13:21.699 --> 01:13:23.920
remember anything you saw that you were like,

01:13:24.100 --> 01:13:26.380
mm, we probably shouldn't do that? I know we've

01:13:26.380 --> 01:13:29.119
had a couple of QEs and regionals where they,

01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:32.819
it was, um... The routes were set where it was

01:13:32.819 --> 01:13:35.500
for lead and it was like a lot of lateral climbing

01:13:35.500 --> 01:13:38.819
because I don't think the height was there in

01:13:38.819 --> 01:13:42.439
the gym to really get a long route. So they made

01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:44.359
him go up and then go climb sideways. And the

01:13:44.359 --> 01:13:47.439
problem that presented is that to make the next

01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:51.439
clip, which would have prevented decking, it

01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:54.350
was a very precarious position. I guess like

01:13:54.350 --> 01:13:57.409
at some of those, like within the QE realm, I

01:13:57.409 --> 01:13:59.489
just, you know, if the setters are thoughtful

01:13:59.489 --> 01:14:04.649
about making sure that, you know, they're providing

01:14:04.649 --> 01:14:07.189
good opportunity so that there's not going to

01:14:07.189 --> 01:14:09.329
be the opportunity for a deck for some of these

01:14:09.329 --> 01:14:12.649
younger athletes, that's ideal. We can belay

01:14:12.649 --> 01:14:14.949
anything, but I just think, you know, when there's

01:14:14.949 --> 01:14:20.170
the injury risk like that, where you have very,

01:14:20.289 --> 01:14:23.539
very small margin for error. that's where it

01:14:23.539 --> 01:14:26.720
gets a little nerve -wracking cool well i think

01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:29.619
that's all the questions i had um there are still

01:14:29.619 --> 01:14:32.420
a couple audience questions left so we'll get

01:14:32.420 --> 01:14:35.699
into those real quick um the first one is from

01:14:35.699 --> 01:14:39.520
mr baker adventure what is it like to walk up

01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:42.939
to an olympian and say hi i'm here to belay you

01:14:43.500 --> 01:14:48.020
I think I know that guy. Steve. Steve. It's Steve.

01:14:48.300 --> 01:14:51.020
He's the one who would say, get in the van. Oh,

01:14:51.060 --> 01:14:53.880
I gotcha. He's the owner of the van. The van.

01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.520
Oh, really? He drives the van that we get in.

01:14:57.239 --> 01:14:59.439
You know what? Honestly, it's just like every

01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:02.899
other athlete. It's another belay. It's another

01:15:02.899 --> 01:15:05.159
athlete at that point. Like, there's no other

01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:10.159
thought. That's pretty much it, you know? Sometimes,

01:15:10.340 --> 01:15:13.060
you know, those athletes will know what they

01:15:13.060 --> 01:15:15.180
want from a belayer. They might say, hey, I want

01:15:15.180 --> 01:15:18.380
extra. I want extra slack in the system. But

01:15:18.380 --> 01:15:22.500
other than that, it's just another athlete. Yeah,

01:15:22.520 --> 01:15:25.100
it's just another belayer. Is there anyone you

01:15:25.100 --> 01:15:29.399
like feel nervous for? No, no. I've had someone

01:15:29.399 --> 01:15:34.060
ask me, are you nervous? And the answer is always

01:15:34.060 --> 01:15:39.500
like, no. Are you? Okay. I think it's funny because

01:15:39.500 --> 01:15:41.859
I think a lot of people always, you know, most

01:15:41.859 --> 01:15:45.140
of our athlete interactions are, you know, with

01:15:45.140 --> 01:15:48.840
an ISO or at tie -in. And so we're always very

01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:50.939
business -like. You know, we're always like,

01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.359
you know, hi, I'm Megan. Your knot looks good.

01:15:53.380 --> 01:15:54.699
Your harness looks good. You know, here's what

01:15:54.699 --> 01:15:56.960
I said. You know, the belayers blessingly go

01:15:56.960 --> 01:15:59.180
through that. Very business. We're not chatty.

01:15:59.319 --> 01:16:02.750
None of that stuff. So I think sometimes when

01:16:02.750 --> 01:16:05.970
the belayer, when the climbers catch us, you

01:16:05.970 --> 01:16:12.050
know, after a comp or when we were filming for

01:16:12.050 --> 01:16:13.930
some of these world climbing videos and they

01:16:13.930 --> 01:16:16.090
realize that we, oh, we do have a personality.

01:16:16.270 --> 01:16:19.409
Oh, we're kind of goofy, you know, we're kind

01:16:19.409 --> 01:16:22.090
of silly. They're like, oh, you guys aren't that

01:16:22.090 --> 01:16:26.029
scary. Because I mean. I have heard before that,

01:16:26.069 --> 01:16:28.529
you know, we do come up intimidating. And I think

01:16:28.529 --> 01:16:30.470
it's also because, you know, we're coming at

01:16:30.470 --> 01:16:33.670
them in this very high pressure situation. And

01:16:33.670 --> 01:16:35.869
we're very serious. We're trying to be respectful

01:16:35.869 --> 01:16:39.770
of their mind space within ISO. And so there's

01:16:39.770 --> 01:16:41.649
not a lot of chit chat. But then they just see

01:16:41.649 --> 01:16:43.770
that we're all a bunch of goofs anyway. And then

01:16:43.770 --> 01:16:45.470
if they slip and fall early, you're just like,

01:16:45.529 --> 01:16:47.649
well, go check the score. Go check the score

01:16:47.649 --> 01:16:50.430
unless they, you know, come up with something

01:16:50.430 --> 01:16:52.430
else funny. So every once in a while, we'll have

01:16:52.430 --> 01:16:55.100
athletes that'll just say something. a real humdinger

01:16:55.100 --> 01:16:58.659
to us like right before time like yeah okay yeah

01:16:58.659 --> 01:17:03.819
okay good to know um the other audience question

01:17:03.819 --> 01:17:07.800
was from yayray3 and it's favorite venue to belay

01:17:07.800 --> 01:17:13.000
at oh it's like always different so it's kind

01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:18.739
of hard to like choose a favorite um Mesa Rim

01:17:18.739 --> 01:17:22.000
in Austin is one of my favorite gyms ever. And

01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:24.680
we did the team trials there. This most recent

01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:27.939
one I belayed for. And like that was really fun.

01:17:28.020 --> 01:17:32.100
That wall is really fun to belay on. The outdoor

01:17:32.100 --> 01:17:34.279
wall, which actually I haven't belayed on the

01:17:34.279 --> 01:17:36.760
new one. We'll see how the new one is. But the

01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:40.460
old one, really fun to belay on. And if you got

01:17:40.460 --> 01:17:42.680
a climber up to the headwall, like you can't

01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:46.099
see anything. You're just belaying by feel. And

01:17:46.099 --> 01:17:50.739
I find that really fun, but I think that might

01:17:50.739 --> 01:17:52.680
freak some people out. And you're also up on

01:17:52.680 --> 01:17:54.720
a platform. So I feel like there's just like

01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:56.779
this, there's like this omnipresence when you

01:17:56.779 --> 01:17:58.859
get up there. And there's also just, you know,

01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:01.380
when you, yeah, I mean, it's for everything that

01:18:01.380 --> 01:18:03.539
Celad said, right? I mean, it is the wall of

01:18:03.539 --> 01:18:05.819
the training center and you're belaying these.

01:18:06.189 --> 01:18:09.210
amazing athletes and then there's also something

01:18:09.210 --> 01:18:11.409
about you know when you make that good catch

01:18:11.409 --> 01:18:14.350
there's something about the way the rope sounds

01:18:14.350 --> 01:18:17.109
through those draws there that just sounds so

01:18:17.109 --> 01:18:19.250
good when it's a good catch it's just something

01:18:19.250 --> 01:18:22.510
about the angle too I don't know yeah it's like

01:18:22.510 --> 01:18:25.430
so good I mean we all just kind of geek out on

01:18:25.430 --> 01:18:27.810
that stuff so you just like can't see the athlete

01:18:27.810 --> 01:18:29.770
anymore because it's like too overhanging and

01:18:29.770 --> 01:18:33.069
then the headwall like yeah it's like vert yeah

01:18:33.069 --> 01:18:36.659
okay Awesome. Well, I think that's all the questions

01:18:36.659 --> 01:18:40.479
I had them today. Thanks for joining. I know

01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:41.960
there were a lot of topics that you guys put

01:18:41.960 --> 01:18:43.600
on the list. So is there anything that I missed

01:18:43.600 --> 01:18:47.199
that you guys still want to go over? Or? Yeah,

01:18:47.300 --> 01:18:49.439
any like other words of wisdom you want to get

01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:51.640
out there? I just think like, you know, if you're

01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:54.920
interested in belaying, and in competition belaying,

01:18:54.920 --> 01:18:59.300
in general, like, get involved, volunteer, this

01:18:59.300 --> 01:19:03.010
sport is growing so quickly. And you know, It

01:19:03.010 --> 01:19:05.390
takes multiple people to make this go forward.

01:19:05.550 --> 01:19:07.310
If you're interested in getting onto the elite

01:19:07.310 --> 01:19:14.329
circuit, send an email to USA Belay. We will

01:19:14.329 --> 01:19:19.550
very quickly be able to hook you up with somebody

01:19:19.550 --> 01:19:22.369
within your region who can help you understand

01:19:22.369 --> 01:19:24.710
maybe what you need to do, help point you in

01:19:24.710 --> 01:19:27.149
the right direction to get involved. I mean,

01:19:27.189 --> 01:19:29.630
that's what we just recently did with scrolling

01:19:29.630 --> 01:19:33.819
Karina out here. She was awesome. She's awesome.

01:19:34.079 --> 01:19:37.079
And so and we've done that for many, many other

01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:40.220
belayers. And I think we're just a bunch of people

01:19:40.220 --> 01:19:43.100
who we're all volunteers ourselves. And so we're

01:19:43.100 --> 01:19:45.300
just pretty we get pretty excited that somebody

01:19:45.300 --> 01:19:49.640
wants to do the same thing. If you care about

01:19:49.640 --> 01:19:54.000
athlete safety, if you're a nerd about belaying,

01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:58.640
if you want to give back to the climbing community,

01:19:59.020 --> 01:20:02.680
competition community, then like. bling is a

01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:06.720
good place to be um but yeah like megan said

01:20:06.720 --> 01:20:10.520
we have like a ton of youtube videos go watch

01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:13.079
the youtube there's a playlist that i think is

01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:16.479
like an introduction playlist i think that's

01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:18.340
what it's called uh it's a good place to start

01:20:18.340 --> 01:20:21.039
if you're just curious about the techniques um

01:20:21.039 --> 01:20:25.119
you can also Of course, send an email if you

01:20:25.119 --> 01:20:28.539
want to send a DM on Instagram at USA Belay.

01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:33.039
Most of what we post over there is like fun stuff

01:20:33.039 --> 01:20:36.079
celebrating the belay community. So for every

01:20:36.079 --> 01:20:38.739
competition, I put together this little post

01:20:38.739 --> 01:20:42.039
that's meet the belayers and everyone sends me

01:20:42.039 --> 01:20:47.220
little headshots. like bios and i post them and

01:20:47.220 --> 01:20:50.659
it is so fun to put together um so if you just

01:20:50.659 --> 01:20:52.779
want to like get to know these people who are

01:20:52.779 --> 01:20:56.579
showing up to comps like that's the purpose for

01:20:56.579 --> 01:21:00.420
that um but yeah it's a really cool community

01:21:00.420 --> 01:21:04.279
so if you're like here to surf climbers like

01:21:04.279 --> 01:21:08.960
then come join us if you're here because for

01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:11.859
like i don't know like selfish reasons you think

01:21:11.859 --> 01:21:14.680
it'll get you attention then like that's not

01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.920
the reason to be doing this. The layers don't

01:21:17.920 --> 01:21:20.239
get attention. The goal is to not be noticed.

01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:22.859
Although I do think that, and we've said this

01:21:22.859 --> 01:21:24.680
sometimes before, we're like, it'd be pretty

01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:27.300
funny to mic us up sometimes and to see like

01:21:27.300 --> 01:21:29.380
what we're thinking, you know, just to, or just,

01:21:29.420 --> 01:21:31.640
you know, have us commentate afterwards. Yeah.

01:21:31.979 --> 01:21:34.539
We joke about that all the time. And one day

01:21:34.539 --> 01:21:38.260
we really should. We just like, oh, oh, you're

01:21:38.260 --> 01:21:40.600
going to do that, aren't you? Oh, oh, this will

01:21:40.600 --> 01:21:42.979
make, please make the clip, make the clip, make

01:21:42.979 --> 01:21:45.989
the clip. Please don't do that. oh okay that

01:21:45.989 --> 01:21:49.090
worked okay that's yeah that's not the beta maybe

01:21:49.090 --> 01:21:52.449
that is the beta okay you guys are like big talkers

01:21:52.449 --> 01:21:55.869
to yourself wobbling it's it's like bubble thoughts

01:21:55.869 --> 01:21:57.970
like we look stonewall here but like these are

01:21:57.970 --> 01:21:59.449
like bubble thoughts that are coming we're not

01:21:59.449 --> 01:22:01.770
like actually talking right now because sometimes

01:22:01.770 --> 01:22:03.489
you know that's something like sometimes you

01:22:03.489 --> 01:22:05.850
know the field of play is mic too so like you

01:22:05.850 --> 01:22:09.010
know we don't we don't we don't we don't want

01:22:09.010 --> 01:22:10.829
that to be getting back yeah i didn't know it

01:22:10.829 --> 01:22:13.800
could capture your audio as well Okay, cool.

01:22:13.960 --> 01:22:17.300
Well, I think that's everything I had then. Yeah,

01:22:17.420 --> 01:22:19.619
thanks for the chat. It was good to catch up

01:22:19.619 --> 01:22:22.399
with you guys. Thanks, Jenny. It's good to see

01:22:22.399 --> 01:22:24.760
you. Yeah, it's good to see you. Thank you for

01:22:24.760 --> 01:22:27.279
listening to this episode of the That's Not Real

01:22:27.279 --> 01:22:30.039
Climbing Podcast. If you've been enjoying the

01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:32.220
podcast, I would appreciate if you like it on

01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:34.739
YouTube or rate it on your podcasting platform.

01:22:35.060 --> 01:22:37.939
And please leave a comment or reach out at any

01:22:37.939 --> 01:22:40.800
time if you have any thoughts. I try to read

01:22:40.800 --> 01:22:43.739
all of the messages. If you want to continue

01:22:43.739 --> 01:22:46.479
the discussion, join the free competition climbing

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discord where we chat live during the World Series

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comps and talk all things climbing. The link

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is in the description and see you next time.